NPR

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:08 am**

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:01 am
KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:57 am
Big D wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:44 am

I would hope so. Although I do think we need to be patient with VdM.
Georgia clearly had him marked down as a danger man and were often putting 3 or 4 defenders on him of which generally at least one was a forward - the wide players for Georgia rarely offered much in attack with most of the Georgian play very narrow. Against Wales it will be very different as Wales will be attacking down the wings - there will be far more space to counter into and also there will be far more mismatches with him running at single isolated backs. With the exception of North, Wales' wings are 13/14 stone, so Duhan will potentially have quite the physical advantage.
But he will also be challenged in ways he hasn't often been at Edinburgh. Especially defensively.

He isn't going to find international rugby as easy as club level and the defences he will face will be better. All I am saying is we should be patient, he is still quite raw and will almost certainly make mistakes.

Graham isnt exactly seasoned either, might feel like it as he is nailed on when fit and has performed very well at this level but he is still early on in his international career.

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:26 am**

There is a story I like to tell, a mate of mine was at a Scotland match at Hampden, the guy sitting a few seats away was hardly watching the game, he just shouted at Ally McCoist on the bench, effin and ceein, dogs abuse.

When Coisty was brought on the guy went ballistic, totally aff his nut .

McCoist hit the back of the net with practically his first touch, the guys shouts, "Aye McCoist, that's aa yer guid fur, scoring goals"

I think Visser was subject to (almost) a similar vitriol at times, totally unfounded imo. It was noticeable how much more complete a player he became at Quins, which tells its own story unfortunately.

vdMerwe is a totally different kettle of ball games, he grew up in one of the toughest, most competitive school environments in the sport and made it to SA Schools and U20s

He's no Jonah, no one is, Jonah changed the entire sport, but I have every confidence that Duhan will make it as an international winger.

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:50 am**

I agree with that. We all knew Visser was a shite defender but he could score tries. Its a team game, you work that in to the tactics and strategies, compensate for his deficiency when he gives elsewhere.

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:54 am**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:26 am There is a story I like to tell, a mate of mine was at a Scotland match at Hampden, the guy sitting a few seats away was hardly watching the game, he just shouted at Ally McCoist on the bench, effin and ceein, dogs abuse.

When Coisty was brought on the guy went ballistic, totally aff his nut .

McCoist hit the back of the net with practically his first touch, the guys shouts, "Aye McCoist, that's aa yer guid fur, scoring goals"

I think Visser was subject to (almost) a similar vitriol at times, totally unfounded imo. It was noticeable how much more complete a player he became at Quins, which tells its own story unfortunately.

vdMerwe is a totally different kettle of ball games, he grew up in one of the toughest, most competitive school environments in the sport and made it to SA Schools and U20s

He's no Jonah, no one is, Jonah changed the entire sport, but I have every confidence that Duhan will make it as an international winger.

I think he will make it too. I just think we need to allow for and probably expect mistakes along the way.

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:41 pm**

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:52 am
Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:45 pm
Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:13 am

I know you keep saying this, but I am not sure that is true. All our centres bar Hutchison are available and the best (in GTs opinion) we could put out was Lang and Harris. We might has a deeper pool of players with less of a drop off than before but the top end continually seem to be lacking in some way or another. So much so that one has been punted to 15. Scott has been poor for the Tigers since his move.
Taylor isn’t available either, though I can entirely understand forgetting this given that he is hardly ever fit.

Other than that, you may be right. Scott and Bennett seemed surplus to requirements, Johnson and Jones struggling for form; Dunbar retired.

Edit: can’t for the life of me think why the hell Glasgow insist on playing Jones at 15. He has no chance of playing there for Scotland unless Hogg, Kinghorn and Maitland are all unavailable, and we are desperate for centres. If he has to play back 3, we’d be better off putting him on the wing.
Wot? When did Dunbar retire? That can't be right, surely he has plenty left to offer - he's only 30 ffs.

Beg your pardon. I thought he had, but I must have mixed him up with someone. Seymour maybe?

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:04 pm**

Not sure if Dunbar has officially retired but he's without a club.

Not sure he did have huge amounts to offer either. He was always injured and after his injuries lost his power and athleticism. Hasn't been very good for a few years now.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:46 am**

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:04 pm Not sure if Dunbar has officially retired but he's without a club.

Not sure he did have huge amounts to offer either. He was always injured and after his injuries lost his power and athleticism. Hasn't been very good for a few years now.

So disappointing, I still maintain that 2016 and 2017 Dunbar was the best inside centre we've had in a decade; would fill a nice hole now.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:41 am**

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:46 am
I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:04 pm Not sure if Dunbar has officially retired but he's without a club.

Not sure he did have huge amounts to offer either. He was always injured and after his injuries lost his power and athleticism. Hasn't been very good for a few years now.
So disappointing, I still maintain that 2016 and 2017 Dunbar was the best inside centre we've had in a decade; would fill a nice hole now.

No argument at all from me, other than he is probably the best in 20+ years. His defence was excellent, he was like an extra flanker over the ball and hitting rucks and he could run good hard lines as well as cut a team open on the angle. I hope he can have a renaissance as he was genuinely brilliant at his peak.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:39 am**

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:35 am**

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:39 am

That's brilliant

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:30 pm**

When is the Scotland Team announced, I'm expecting it now?

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:30 pm**

The Party Line wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:30 pm When is the Scotland Team announced, I'm expecting it now?

They said 'lunchtime'. Fuck knows what time they eat lunch at Murrayfield, I'd be chewing my keyboard if I left it this late.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:33 pm**

The tombola keeps on giving

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:33 pm**

Kinghorn over Duhan

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:43 pm**

I can understand BK over vdM 22 caps v 1 and Kinghorn has a massive kicking game to return anything bombed down at him, he is a quick elusive runner - Toonie said he was the quickest in the squad last season.

Duhan will grow into the team, there's no rush. I look forward to him coming on for the last quarter.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:45 pm**

Lang has to be a joke selection, surely there is someone better? he is never in a million years international quality.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:49 pm**

Thomson, Lang and Steele - no Skinner or Jones. It's...interesting again.

Looking for big games from the Lions hopeful - tight five, Ritchie, Watson, Russell, they need to lay down a marker.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:51 pm**

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:49 pm Thomson, Lang and Steele - no Skinner or Jones. It's...interesting again.

Looking for big games from the Lions hopeful - tight five, Ritchie, Watson, Russell, they need to lay down a marker.

Where does Jones play though? He's not getting in at 15. He's never a 12, the Wales disaster that Harris has carried the can for is evidence of that. He's not played wing for a long old time and Harris has been excellent at 13 for a while.

Skinner is a surprise as is Steele.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:51 pm**

I’m OK with most of that team.

Happy with front row.
Happy with second row.
OK with back row (not sure about Blade at 8, but we don’t have a lot of good fit candidates)
Happy with half backs.
OK with back 3 - would have preferred Duhan to start, but Kinghorn has done well for us down the wing.

It’s the centres I’m not happy with. WTF has Lang done to suddenly be starting 12? Both he and Harris were fairly anonymous v Georgia. We all know Toony loves Harris (still not sure why) but I think Lang at 12 comes down to ‘Taylor is crocked again, Johnson is unfit and off form, Dunbar has fallen out of the picture and Toony hates Matt Scott for some reason.’

I am starting to think Toony’s preferred 10/12 combo would be Hastings/Russell, but he doesn’t quite think he can get away with it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:52 pm**

Centres meh. Decidedly underwhelming

Blade at 8 was also an eyebrow raise from me.

Good to see Russell installed at 10 and toonie not trying to be a smart arse and having him picking up splinters, lesson learned lets move on and Hastings to continue to develop.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:54 pm**

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:51 pm
clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:49 pm Thomson, Lang and Steele - no Skinner or Jones. It's...interesting again.

Looking for big games from the Lions hopeful - tight five, Ritchie, Watson, Russell, they need to lay down a marker.
Where does Jones play though? He's not getting in at 15. He's never a 12, the Wales disaster that Harris has carried the can for is evidence of that. He's not played wing for a long old time and Harris has been excellent at 13 for a while.

Skinner is a surprise as is Steele.

Excellent!?!?

Passable Yes, excellent No.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:00 pm**

Is George Horne injured? Otherwise I don't understand Steele, nor (like others here) Lang.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:01 pm**

I had missed Steele on the bench. Has Hornito picked up a knock, perhaps? Very odd decision otherwise.

I am seriously lacking confidence for this one. Wales are hurting and badly need a win, and I think we will obligingly cough it up. Heart really, really wants a Scotland win (I live in Wales, FFS) but head says Wales by 10.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:02 pm**

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:54 pm
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:51 pm
clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:49 pm Thomson, Lang and Steele - no Skinner or Jones. It's...interesting again.

Looking for big games from the Lions hopeful - tight five, Ritchie, Watson, Russell, they need to lay down a marker.
Where does Jones play though? He's not getting in at 15. He's never a 12, the Wales disaster that Harris has carried the can for is evidence of that. He's not played wing for a long old time and Harris has been excellent at 13 for a while.

Skinner is a surprise as is Steele.
Excellent!?!?

Passable Yes, excellent No.

I would play Jones over Harris at 13, and potentially move Harris to 12 if we really need his defensive qualities. Dunbar was our defensive centre for a few years and he mostly played 12.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:04 pm**

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:02 pm
Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:54 pm
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:51 pm

Where does Jones play though? He's not getting in at 15. He's never a 12, the Wales disaster that Harris has carried the can for is evidence of that. He's not played wing for a long old time and Harris has been excellent at 13 for a while.

Skinner is a surprise as is Steele.
Excellent!?!?

Passable Yes, excellent No.
I would play Jones over Harris at 13, and potentially move Harris to 12 if we really need his defensive qualities. Dunbar was our defensive centre for a few years and he mostly played 12.

Same. If Harris has to be in the team then I’d put him in the position where we don’t currently have better options.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:05 pm**

Options at 12 are limited, I don't believe in shoehorning players in, playing Russell there means our best 10, one of the best in Europe, is playing out of position. Johnson is only just back from injury, Taylor is crocked, Matt Scott would be my choice but has been less than whelming in a very poor Tigers side, the two Edinburgh lads are not ready for this level, Grigg? not really for me. Huw Jones? he's more a 13.

Lang it is then.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:07 pm**

I don't know anything about Steele, so can't comment, otherwise I think the team is decent looking, good pack and replacements for them, vd Merwe will cause a few headaches for the home side when he comes on, hopefully to a wee bit of space

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:11 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:05 pm Options at 12 are limited, I don't believe in shoehorning players in, playing Russell there means our best 10, one of the best in Europe, is playing out of position. Johnson is only just back from injury, Taylor is crocked, Matt Scott would be my choice but has been less than whelming in a very poor Tigers side, the two Edinburgh lads are not ready for this level, Grigg? not really for me. Huw Jones? he's more a 13.

Lang it is then.

That was my logic as well, but although Scott might not have been great this season, he was very good for Edinburgh last season and he’s got 39 caps. Plus Kinghorn on the wing over VdM shows Toony isn’t picking solely on form. For some reason he has never seemed to rate Scott.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:15 pm**

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:54 pm
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:51 pm
clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:49 pm Thomson, Lang and Steele - no Skinner or Jones. It's...interesting again.

Looking for big games from the Lions hopeful - tight five, Ritchie, Watson, Russell, they need to lay down a marker.
Where does Jones play though? He's not getting in at 15. He's never a 12, the Wales disaster that Harris has carried the can for is evidence of that. He's not played wing for a long old time and Harris has been excellent at 13 for a while.

Skinner is a surprise as is Steele.
Excellent!?!?

Passable Yes, excellent No.

He had a very good six nations.

A few good games at 15 for Jones doesn't take away he can't even get into the Glasgow side at 13 and hasn't played well at 13 for a long time when given his chances. Nick Grigg has rightfully kept the shirt from Jones and then Kyle Steyn before Grigg.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:16 pm**

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:11 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:05 pm Options at 12 are limited, I don't believe in shoehorning players in, playing Russell there means our best 10, one of the best in Europe, is playing out of position. Johnson is only just back from injury, Taylor is crocked, Matt Scott would be my choice but has been less than whelming in a very poor Tigers side, the two Edinburgh lads are not ready for this level, Grigg? not really for me. Huw Jones? he's more a 13.

Lang it is then.
That was my logic as well, but although Scott might not have been great this season, he was very good for Edinburgh last season and he’s got 39 caps. Plus Kinghorn on the wing over VdM shows Toony isn’t picking solely on form. For some reason he has never seemed to rate Scott.

Townsend places a lot of stock in defensive qualities from his centres, iirc Matt Scott fell foul of him for this reason, as did Mark Bennett and Huw Jones for that matter, there is a lot work done without the ball and that is where Townsend rates Harris so highly.

I haven't seen Quins play very much for the last couple of seasons, I just seem to have missed their games on tv, is Lang a good defender?

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:19 pm**

Nearly posted similar. Wondering if the game plan is for the centres to tackle everything in sight and leave creativity to Finn and the back 3. Not sure how good a tackler Lang is though.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:20 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:16 pm
Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:11 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:05 pm Options at 12 are limited, I don't believe in shoehorning players in, playing Russell there means our best 10, one of the best in Europe, is playing out of position. Johnson is only just back from injury, Taylor is crocked, Matt Scott would be my choice but has been less than whelming in a very poor Tigers side, the two Edinburgh lads are not ready for this level, Grigg? not really for me. Huw Jones? he's more a 13.

Lang it is then.
That was my logic as well, but although Scott might not have been great this season, he was very good for Edinburgh last season and he’s got 39 caps. Plus Kinghorn on the wing over VdM shows Toony isn’t picking solely on form. For some reason he has never seemed to rate Scott.

Townsend places a lot of stock in defensive qualities from his centres, iirc Matt Scott fell foul of him for this reason, as did Mark Bennett and Huw Jones for that matter, there is a lot work done without the ball and that is where Townsend rates Harris so highly.

I haven't seen Quins play very much for the last couple of seasons, I just seem to have missed their games on tv, is Lang a good defender?

Defensive qualities are also significantly improved at 10 by having Russell in place of Hastings.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:24 pm**

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:20 pm
Defensive qualities are also significantly improved at 10 by having Russell in place of Hastings.

very true, he's not like some fly halves who get shoved out to the wing in defence

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:25 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:16 pm
Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:11 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:05 pm Options at 12 are limited, I don't believe in shoehorning players in, playing Russell there means our best 10, one of the best in Europe, is playing out of position. Johnson is only just back from injury, Taylor is crocked, Matt Scott would be my choice but has been less than whelming in a very poor Tigers side, the two Edinburgh lads are not ready for this level, Grigg? not really for me. Huw Jones? he's more a 13.

Lang it is then.
That was my logic as well, but although Scott might not have been great this season, he was very good for Edinburgh last season and he’s got 39 caps. Plus Kinghorn on the wing over VdM shows Toony isn’t picking solely on form. For some reason he has never seemed to rate Scott.

Townsend places a lot of stock in defensive qualities from his centres, iirc Matt Scott fell foul of him for this reason, as did Mark Bennett and Huw Jones for that matter, there is a lot work done without the ball and that is where Townsend rates Harris so highly.

I haven't seen Quins play very much for the last couple of seasons, I just seem to have missed their games on tv, is Lang a good defender?

I'm guessing Lang is not in for his defensive qualities primarily. He's more of a playmaker 12 in the Horne mode so hopefully will make the attack less predictable.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:27 pm**

It’s really dispiriting. We still have a chronic weakness at 12. We can’t seem to find anyone consistently good for the position. Who will be first choice in 3 years? Right now I have no idea. 8 is even worse, though I really wanted to see what Fagerson could do against good opposition.

At least LH and 10 are looking a bit better than they did a few years ago!

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:30 pm**

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:27 pm It’s really dispiriting. We still have a chronic weakness at 12. We can’t seem to find anyone consistently good for the position. Who will be first choice in 3 years? Right now I have no idea. 8 is even worse, though I really wanted to see what Fagerson could do against good opposition.

At least LH and 10 are looking a bit better than they did a few years ago!

I'd still think a fit Johnson is first choice?

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:53 pm**

I can't understand the Scott omission either. Edinburgh without him are a shadow of the side that had him.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:00 pm**

I used to think Harris was pish but I think he was really starting to hit his stride when Covid put an end to the 6N. It's hard to judge him or Lang on last weeks game.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:16 pm**

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:15 pm
Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:54 pm
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:51 pm

Where does Jones play though? He's not getting in at 15. He's never a 12, the Wales disaster that Harris has carried the can for is evidence of that. He's not played wing for a long old time and Harris has been excellent at 13 for a while.

Skinner is a surprise as is Steele.
Excellent!?!?

Passable Yes, excellent No.
He had a very good six nations.

A few good games at 15 for Jones doesn't take away he can't even get into the Glasgow side at 13 and hasn't played well at 13 for a long time when given his chances. Nick Grigg has rightfully kept the shirt from Jones and then Kyle Steyn before Grigg.

For me he has gone from not very good and a bit of liability into being an adequate centre, he wont win us games but he wont lose them either. Personally dont rate him as very good or excellent, based on his early performences he has been very good in comparison.

If we contrast that with the match winners in Hogg and Russell with Graham closing in too we have got x factor in the team just not in the centres but then no team otehr than the great AB sides are chock full of x factor players and we being a smaller nation certainly wont be.

Posted: **Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:28 pm**

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:30 pm
Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:27 pm It’s really dispiriting. We still have a chronic weakness at 12. We can’t seem to find anyone consistently good for the position. Who will be first choice in 3 years? Right now I have no idea. 8 is even worse, though I really wanted to see what Fagerson could do against good opposition.

At least LH and 10 are looking a bit better than they did a few years ago!
I'd still think a fit Johnson is first choice?

You'd think so, but he is 27. I'm also concerned that he might fall into the trap that has claimed Jones and Kinghorn, bursting onto the international scene with a bang and then having his form vanish. A couple of years ago you wouldn't have believed the notion that Scotland might now not be picking a fit Huw Jones. (Edit: I still don't believe it now!)

According to Wikipedia, Johnson still only has 6 caps.

NPR

The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread