The Official English Rugby Thread

[SaintK]

Bloody hell!! I wish he'd had that meeting 2 years ago and fucked-off then.

England boss Eddie Jones has held talks with Racing 92 over taking on the head coach role following the conclusion of his contract with the Red Rose, according to reports in France.
Midi Olympique have claimed that Jones met with the French club and has shown interest in taking the reins at the Parisians as current coach Laurent Travers is set to become president of the club.

https://www.planetrugby.com/eddie-jone ... report/

[Kawazaki]

Pretty sure any attempt to creatively break the salary cap is going to swiftly shut down, it's not like it can't be amended if most of the clubs agree.

There are more test matches than ever and if World Rugby gets their way then there will be even more. Within the English club system this raises the paradox that clubs who produce England players get handicapped in four ways;

1. They lose their England player for half the season (with all the attendant fitness risk that goes with it).
2. They have incurred all the risk, developmental and opportunity costs to take that player from the junior academy through to senior rugby.
3. Once capped by England, the clubs then have to pay their player more money to play less necessitating...
4. Recruiting and/or developing another player on the playing roster to cover the periods when the England player is unavailable.

Now we all know this but it's not going to go away. The reducing cap must be putting further strain on this process as well. Something will have to give.

[Kawazaki]

Bloody hell!! I wish he'd had that meeting 2 years ago and fucked-off then.

England boss Eddie Jones has held talks with Racing 92 over taking on the head coach role following the conclusion of his contract with the Red Rose, according to reports in France.
Midi Olympique have claimed that Jones met with the French club and has shown interest in taking the reins at the Parisians as current coach Laurent Travers is set to become president of the club.

https://www.planetrugby.com/eddie-jone ... report/

Eddie Jones always looks after Eddie Jones.

[JM2K6]

Pretty sure any attempt to creatively break the salary cap is going to swiftly shut down, it's not like it can't be amended if most of the clubs agree.

There are more test matches than ever and if World Rugby gets their way then there will be even more. Within the English club system this raises the paradox that clubs who produce England players get handicapped in four ways;

1. They lose their England player for half the season (with all the attendant fitness risk that goes with it).
2. They have incurred all the risk, developmental and opportunity costs to take that player from the junior academy through to senior rugby.
3. Once capped by England, the clubs then have to pay their player more money to play less necessitating...
4. Recruiting and/or developing another player on the playing roster to cover the periods when the England player is unavailable.

Now we all know this but it's not going to go away. The reducing cap must be putting further strain on this process as well. Something will have to give.

Sure, and I'm a big supporter of having fewer matches in general. But the cap is there for a reason and we can't pretend this is anything other than a financial basket case of a sport.

[SaintK]

Pretty sure any attempt to creatively break the salary cap is going to swiftly shut down, it's not like it can't be amended if most of the clubs agree.

There are more test matches than ever and if World Rugby gets their way then there will be even more. Within the English club system this raises the paradox that clubs who produce England players get handicapped in four ways;

1. They lose their England player for half the season (with all the attendant fitness risk that goes with it).
2. They have incurred all the risk, developmental and opportunity costs to take that player from the junior academy through to senior rugby.
3. Once capped by England, the clubs then have to pay their player more money to play less necessitating...
4. Recruiting and/or developing another player on the playing roster to cover the periods when the England player is unavailable.

Now we all know this but it's not going to go away. The reducing cap must be putting further strain on this process as well. Something will have to give.

Sure, and I'm a big supporter of having fewer matches in general. But the cap is there for a reason and we can't pretend this is anything other than a financial basket case of a sport.

Sounds as if there will be mo if this goes ahead!

Rugby chiefs are poised to hold key discussions on Tuesday over the proposal to radically shake up the international calendar and introduce a new global competition to be staged every two years.
Representatives from the Six Nations, Sanzaar (South Africa, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina Rugby) and World Rugby are poised to meet for crucial talks in Dublin over a biennial north v south competition, which would fully launch in 2026. It would be the sport’s biggest overhaul since the dawn of professionalism in 1995

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... rnament

[Kawazaki]

Sounds as if there will be mo if this goes ahead!

Rugby chiefs are poised to hold key discussions on Tuesday over the proposal to radically shake up the international calendar and introduce a new global competition to be staged every two years.
Representatives from the Six Nations, Sanzaar (South Africa, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina Rugby) and World Rugby are poised to meet for crucial talks in Dublin over a biennial north v south competition, which would fully launch in 2026. It would be the sport’s biggest overhaul since the dawn of professionalism in 1995

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... rnament

What's the betting that there has been zero representations at these meetings from the club owners or from player welfare groups?

[Ymx]

There is no way this guy should have made it the whole way.

Wow

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, was a decent effort. He's taken to senior rugby like a duck to water so far. Decent career ahead if he works hard and has a bit of luck with injuries.

[Tichtheid]

There is no way this guy should have made it the whole way.

Wow

The scrum half (I think) was the only one to get close to him, and Arundell's footwork took him away from the tackle with ease, it was an astonishing score.

He did likewise against Scotland in the Under 20s game this year

[JM2K6]

Reassuringly big thighs on him.

But yeah, he does seem to be A Player, not just very fast. Really enjoying what he's doing so far.

[Lobby]

There is no way this guy should have made it the whole way.

Wow

The scrum half (I think) was the only one to get close to him, and Arundell's footwork took him away from the tackle with ease, it was an astonishing score.

He did likewise against Scotland in the Under 20s game this year

He's done it to pretty much everyone he's played against so far.

[Margin__Walker]

My 2nd favourite try of his so far was his first senior try in the CC against Sarries in Jan. Not on that video but it is here. Front on angle is great. Steps the wing, manages to avoid Itoje and dummies the 9 covering across. Then gets called 'Harry'. Which has persisted (I'm looking at you Ugo) ever since.

[sockwithaticket]

My 2nd favourite try of his so far was his first senior try in the CC against Sarries in Jan. Not on that video but it is here. Front on angle is great. Steps the wing, manages to avoid Itoje and dummies the 9 covering across. Then gets called 'Harry'. Which has persisted (I'm looking at you Ugo) ever since.

The number of people, for whom rugby is a job in some way, that consistently get names wrong is astonishing.

[Mahoney]

He doesn't use Harry as a a short form for Henry then?

[Margin__Walker]

He doesn't use Harry as a a short form for Henry then?

Well this is his old man, so I doubt it

[Kawazaki]

He looks a superb talent. What I can't understand is that he went to Harrow school which is definitely Saracens territory! Itoje is an Old Harrovian FFS!

London Irish definitely did well there.

[Margin__Walker]

He looks a superb talent. What I can't understand is that he went to Harrow school which is definitely Saracens territory! Itoje is an Old Harrovian FFS!

London Irish definitely did well there.

We nipped in ahead of Bath and Sarries. Bath as he's from that area (and I think was a Bath fan as a kid). Sarries because Harrow was Sarries territory. However Middlesex was reallocated in a shake up 5 or 6 years ago and is now LI. He started with us at 14 which would have been pretty soon after that.

May be a bit of a battle to keep hold of him in a year or two if the upward trajectory continues.

[Kawazaki]

He looks a superb talent. What I can't understand is that he went to Harrow school which is definitely Saracens territory! Itoje is an Old Harrovian FFS!

London Irish definitely did well there.

We nipped in ahead of Bath and Sarries. Bath as he's from that area (and I think was a Bath fan as a kid). Sarries because Harrow was Sarries territory. However Middlesex was reallocated in a shake up 5 or 6 years ago and is now LI. He started with us at 14 which would have been pretty soon after that.

May be a bit of a battle to keep hold of him in a year or two if the upward trajectory continues.

London Irish are definitely one of the better academies in the Premiership. Dodged a bullet avoiding Bath.

Be a decent topic for this thread actually, discussing which academies are adding value and putting in a shift and highlighting the ones that are taking the piss.

[Margin__Walker]

London Irish are definitely one of the better academies in the Premiership. Dodged a bullet avoiding Bath.

Be a decent topic for this thread actually, discussing which academies are adding value and putting in a shift and highlighting the ones that are taking the piss.

Can be perception and reality sometimes. LI have a rep for a decent academy but I wouldn't call it consistent. We had a purple patch 15 years ago finishing with someone like Watson. Followed by a really barren 4 or 5 years with no one at all of note coming through until Johnny Williams/Brophy Clews (decent, but not exceptional players). Last few years have been much better, but the really good ones still tend to be outside backs. I don't think we've produced a forward that's gone on to play for England since Corbisiero, which is pretty poor.

[Kawazaki]

Yeah, I was going to qualify my praise for LI with the caveat that their academy only seems to produce decent backs but didn't want to spoil it!

[Kawazaki]

Everything not all rosey at Bristol...

https://archive.ph/RLJ0c

Responding to posts critical of Bristol’s defence, which has conceded the third most points and tries this campaign, GrindRugby responded: “Take a look at the defensive stats for last season-top of the league! Pat wants 5 mins of d training a week to focus on attack- absolute bs!” The account replied to another post: “But all Pat wants to do is train attack!! And not even at pace or with enthusiasm. He’s killing everyone in the squad.”
This caught the attention of former England second row Attwood who called it an “oddly specific criticism” and added “are you watching us train by any chance?”
There were further cutting comments of Lam from GrindRugby. “Players are fed up already! Mauls and line outs also shocking today- training attack only isn’t winning us anything!”

[geordie_6]

He looks a superb talent. What I can't understand is that he went to Harrow school which is definitely Saracens territory! Itoje is an Old Harrovian FFS!

London Irish definitely did well there.

We nipped in ahead of Bath and Sarries. Bath as he's from that area (and I think was a Bath fan as a kid). Sarries because Harrow was Sarries territory. However Middlesex was reallocated in a shake up 5 or 6 years ago and is now LI. He started with us at 14 which would have been pretty soon after that.

May be a bit of a battle to keep hold of him in a year or two if the upward trajectory continues.

Less so if Irish continue their own upward trajectory.

[Margin__Walker]

Less so if Irish continue their own upward trajectory.

Hopefully. Looking likely to miss out on Champions Cup next season though, which can be a factor and something that looked relatively comfortable a few months ago.

But, yeah. Things we are in a different place to where we were when we were bleeding top talent in the past.

[Margin__Walker]

Ton off re-signings and new signings announced by Tigers today. Likes of Ashton and Wigglesworth resigning

James Cronin, Phil Cokanasiga, Olly Cracknell and Gopperth incoming.

[SaintK]

Ton off re-signings and new signings announced by Tigers today. Likes of Ashton and Wigglesworth resigning

James Cronin, Phil Cokanasiga, James Cracknell and Gopperth incoming.

Can't say I've come across either Cronin or Cracknell before.
Cokanasiga could prove a very shrewd signing for the future.
I know Ford is off but I just can't get my head round the Gopperth signing.

[Stranger]

I can't see what the benefit of signing Gopperth is

[Margin__Walker]

Ton off re-signings and new signings announced by Tigers today. Likes of Ashton and Wigglesworth resigning

James Cronin, Phil Cokanasiga, James Cracknell and Gopperth incoming.

Can't say I've come across either Cronin or Cracknell before.
Cokanasiga could prove a very shrewd signing for the future.
I know Ford is off but I just can't get my head round the Gopperth signing.

Cronin's pretty decent.

Olly Cracknell will fit right in at Leicester. Nothing fancy, very physical, can carry in the tight and hits like a truck.

Cokanasiga could go either way. Decent athlete with a good step, albeit not the best hands or distribution at 12. Clearly something there and he's scored some decent tries in ND1/Prem Cup, but his Prem appearances to date have been inconsistent (and non existent this season with only 20 mins off the bench). Given he's been largely off on loan this season, it's clear that he wasn't yet front and centre in Kidney's plans. Still young though so wouldn't surprise me at all if he did well at Tigers.

Watson also announced now

[Kawazaki]

I can't see what the benefit of signing Gopperth is

I think Borthwick likes senior pros in the squad to set the example. I was reading something in the Telegraph where he was describing why he hired Ashton and he remarked that he remembered him as a fellow player at Saracens and was impressed by his work ethic in training - Ashton was first in and last out and did a lot of cross-training to constantly improve. He said he'd never forgotten that. Gopperth will be very similar and clearly looks after himself.

[Camroc2]

Ton off re-signings and new signings announced by Tigers today. Likes of Ashton and Wigglesworth resigning

James Cronin, Phil Cokanasiga, James Cracknell and Gopperth incoming.

Can't say I've come across either Cronin or Cracknell before.
Cokanasiga could prove a very shrewd signing for the future.
I know Ford is off but I just can't get my head round the Gopperth signing.

Cronin is a product of the Munster Academy. Primarily a LH but has played TH. Picked up a couple of caps 6 or 7 years ago. Let go from Munster last season, and joined Biarritz who have a strong Munster connection. Calling him military medium would be doing him a disservice. Decent, without lighting any fires would be more accurate.

[inactionman]

Ton off re-signings and new signings announced by Tigers today. Likes of Ashton and Wigglesworth resigning

James Cronin, Phil Cokanasiga, Olly Cracknell and Gopperth incoming.

Anthony Watson as well.

Assume Tigers offered more, despite Bath's woes it seems - well, the rumour and wild speculation has it - that remuneration was the main sticking point.

[Kawazaki]

Stuart Hooper might be quite off-putting to any potential player joining or extending their contract with Bath.

[sockwithaticket]

Ton off re-signings and new signings announced by Tigers today. Likes of Ashton and Wigglesworth resigning

James Cronin, Phil Cokanasiga, Olly Cracknell and Gopperth incoming.

Anthony Watson as well.

Assume Tigers offered more, despite Bath's woes it seems - well, the rumour and wild speculation has it - that remuneration was the main sticking point.

Tbh spending money on the wings shouldn't be Bath's priority, especially not senior England international money. Some more quality in the tight five and at outside centre or better back up 9 is where it would be best used from an outsider's perspective.

[inactionman]

Ton off re-signings and new signings announced by Tigers today. Likes of Ashton and Wigglesworth resigning

James Cronin, Phil Cokanasiga, Olly Cracknell and Gopperth incoming.

Anthony Watson as well.

Assume Tigers offered more, despite Bath's woes it seems - well, the rumour and wild speculation has it - that remuneration was the main sticking point.

Tbh spending money on the wings shouldn't be Bath's priority, especially not senior England international money. Some more quality in the tight five and at outside centre or better back up 9 is where it would be best used from an outsider's perspective.

That's pretty much the consensus in the stands, Bath are well-stocked at wing and have De Glanville shaping up nicely at 15, and so although Watson is electric it's not a notably weak area for Bath. Given the reduction in cap spending a few bob on the pack would be a better investment (hello Dave Attwood).

Think some reinforcement at 10 might be an idea as well.

[fishfoodie]

Anthony Watson as well.

Assume Tigers offered more, despite Bath's woes it seems - well, the rumour and wild speculation has it - that remuneration was the main sticking point.

Tbh spending money on the wings shouldn't be Bath's priority, especially not senior England international money. Some more quality in the tight five and at outside centre or better back up 9 is where it would be best used from an outsider's perspective.

That's pretty much the consensus in the stands, Bath are well-stocked at wing and have De Glanville shaping up nicely at 15, and so although Watson is electric it's not a notably weak area for Bath. Given the reduction in cap spending a few bob on the pack would be a better investment (hello Dave Attwood).

Think some reinforcement at 10 might be an idea as well.

It's all a bit academic if the man in charge is clueless.

First order of business is to arrange the Management, & then let them go out & sign the people that fit their plan for how the team will play.

[inactionman]

Tbh spending money on the wings shouldn't be Bath's priority, especially not senior England international money. Some more quality in the tight five and at outside centre or better back up 9 is where it would be best used from an outsider's perspective.

That's pretty much the consensus in the stands, Bath are well-stocked at wing and have De Glanville shaping up nicely at 15, and so although Watson is electric it's not a notably weak area for Bath. Given the reduction in cap spending a few bob on the pack would be a better investment (hello Dave Attwood).

Think some reinforcement at 10 might be an idea as well.

It's all a bit academic if the man in charge is clueless.

First order of business is to arrange the Management, & then let them go out & sign the people that fit their plan for how the team will play.

That's been done, new bloke formally starts in off-season.

[fishfoodie]

That's pretty much the consensus in the stands, Bath are well-stocked at wing and have De Glanville shaping up nicely at 15, and so although Watson is electric it's not a notably weak area for Bath. Given the reduction in cap spending a few bob on the pack would be a better investment (hello Dave Attwood).

Think some reinforcement at 10 might be an idea as well.

It's all a bit academic if the man in charge is clueless.

First order of business is to arrange the Management, & then let them go out & sign the people that fit their plan for how the team will play.

That's been done, new bloke formally starts in off-season.

Bath have a good set of players, but there's obviously no strategy behind them, & it's depressing seeing such a waste of talent.

Is the assumption that JvG is actually going to be much more than just a coach ?

If they're hoping that he'll be the magic bullet, I hope they haven't invested too much.

[Kawazaki]

Anthony Watson as well.

Assume Tigers offered more, despite Bath's woes it seems - well, the rumour and wild speculation has it - that remuneration was the main sticking point.

Tbh spending money on the wings shouldn't be Bath's priority, especially not senior England international money. Some more quality in the tight five and at outside centre or better back up 9 is where it would be best used from an outsider's perspective.

That's pretty much the consensus in the stands, Bath are well-stocked at wing and have De Glanville shaping up nicely at 15, and so although Watson is electric it's not a notably weak area for Bath. Given the reduction in cap spending a few bob on the pack would be a better investment (hello Dave Attwood).

Think some reinforcement at 10 might be an idea as well.

It's worth remembering that Bath has one of the best squads in the league in 2021/22.

Player quality isn't the issue is it.

[inactionman]

It's all a bit academic if the man in charge is clueless.

First order of business is to arrange the Management, & then let them go out & sign the people that fit their plan for how the team will play.

That's been done, new bloke formally starts in off-season.

Bath have a good set of players, but there's obviously no strategy behind them, & it's depressing seeing such a waste of talent.

Is the assumption that JvG is actually going to be much more than just a coach ?

If they're hoping that he'll be the magic bullet, I hope they haven't invested too much.

There's been quite a bit of to-ing and fro-ing already, expect most of the overhaul will be undertaken once this season is finished and put in a lead-lined casket, buried in concrete and never spoken of again.

[geordie_6]

Leicester have agreed an early release for Dan Lancaster. No indication of next step for him, but looks to be continuing in rugby as Tiggers statement "wished him luck in his next rugby chapter".

Edit: Torygraph reporting that he is heading to Ealing.

[Margin__Walker]

Leicester have agreed an early release for Dan Lancaster. No indication of next step for him, but looks to be continuing in rugby as Tiggers statement "wished him luck in his next rugby chapter".

Edit: Torygraph reporting that he is heading to Ealing.

Yeah, heading to Ealing.

I've seen him a few times for Eng U20s and Leicester in the Prem Cup and he's not looked anything special. Ealing probably a good move for him as more than possible he'll kick on with more regular rugby.