NPR

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:54 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:18 pm More supply lowers prices. How much would noticeably lower them? I don't know, not an expert. What is clear is that by having more British based energy we:
1) Can have greater control of our own supply in the event protectionism descends
2) Can make money off of selling it that can be reinvested in our own economy rather than transferred to Norway/Qatar etc.

As I say, it's not a silver bullet but the central economics of energy production are pretty simple. Either you produce your own or you buy it off of others and make yourself comparatively poorer as a result.

My gut feeling is just drilling more, with no state input (even if it's just storage infrastructure), isn't going to do much to the price. Not at all an expert either (I think this is Shaggy's area though?), I'm mostly going on the constant claims the easy stuff has been extracted from Scotland and there's only x years left.

Your point 1 is true. Your point 2 is much more contingent on what the UK government decides (ownership models, taxes etc), using the revenue to fund tax cuts then letting the market decide on the UK's future development is the preferred option in the UK and it means underdevelopment, arguably in the whole UK relative to peer nations over the last 40 years, much less to argue about on regional disparities within the UK.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:02 pm You are wrong on both counts.

1) I'll repeat what I said before on this kinda subject. One of my (more militant, granted) Ghanaian friends Jennifer always used to say something like "White people invented racism. White people perpetuated racism (still do actually). White people don't now get the f**k to tell me what is and isn't racist too."

I can categorically tell you that probably all my black friends and relatives (pretty sure I have more than you and so a much larger sample size) , militant or not, will agree with the use of the term coconut for the black cabinet ministers in the earlier post. I'll put aside the Asian ones because coconut is not part of Asians' lexicon. So, who do you think is right? You or them?

2) You still don't get it. What apartheid was doing was using power and politics to create separation of wealth and power delineated by a combo of race, culture (primarily these 2) and class. The Tories are up to exactly the same game. It is the Tories who are pushing "stay in your separate lane" and anyone signing up to that manifesto is doing exactly the same. No amount of twisted logic, tautology or one sided intellectual idealism put forth by you is going to flip the debate to your side. Your gaping flaw is in the assertion in this line:
"Guess what Afrikaners were told by other Afrikaners when they dared to challenge anything back in the day.............."
because there, there were Afrikaaners seeking to change from within (though a minuscule number compared with what most safas would like us to believe today much in the same way that in France, everyone's ancestors were in the Resistance) WHEREAS these c**ts aren't attempting to change anything. Absolutely the reverse. They are trying to enforce the status quo whilst benefiting from it themselves. These are not change activists in the manner of your Afrikaaner martyr example at all. They are much more akin to the Jewish camp "guards" who aided the Nazis in their activities against their own people. And yeah, I know I just invoked Godwin's Law.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:54 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:06 pm Listening to PMQ's Truss' plans sound even more crazy.

We have put ourselves in an incredibly uncompetitive environment with Brexit yet she seems to think we are going to succeed with a few tax cuts to attract massive investment in a hugely competitive global market.

The maddest thing of all is that we are in this crisis now, it is an immediate threat, but this plan of hers, which might make more sense in better times, won't deliver anything for years to come. What is she expecting? Giant international firms to locate to a country on the fringes of the EU, employ workers that don't exist and tax receipts and spending to come flooding in to get us out of this, all in the next few weeks?

It's fucking crazy.

salanya wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:22 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:06 pm Listening to PMQ's Truss' plans sound even more crazy.

We have put ourselves in an incredibly uncompetitive environment with Brexit yet she seems to think we are going to succeed with a few tax cuts to attract massive investment in a hugely competitive global market.

The maddest thing of all is that we are in this crisis now, it is an immediate threat, but this plan of hers, which might make more sense in better times, won't deliver anything for years to come. What is she expecting? Giant international firms to locate to a country on the fringes of the EU, employ workers that don't exist and tax receipts and spending to come flooding in to get us out of this, all in the next few weeks?

It's fucking crazy.

+1 on all of that

Loading yourself with more heavy debt (which your party said should be avoided at all cost a few years ago), pretending business will be booming soon (despite all the realities of Brexit which they fought for) and saddling people and businesses with tax burdens in the years to come, and all to help your mates to a few million extra in profits, and the cabinet seats they fancy.

Truss may at least answer questions, but her ideology (adopted out of ambition and not based on any sense, as she has none) could well harm the country more than Boris' lies.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:25 pm

salanya wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:22 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:06 pm Listening to PMQ's Truss' plans sound even more crazy.

We have put ourselves in an incredibly uncompetitive environment with Brexit yet she seems to think we are going to succeed with a few tax cuts to attract massive investment in a hugely competitive global market.

The maddest thing of all is that we are in this crisis now, it is an immediate threat, but this plan of hers, which might make more sense in better times, won't deliver anything for years to come. What is she expecting? Giant international firms to locate to a country on the fringes of the EU, employ workers that don't exist and tax receipts and spending to come flooding in to get us out of this, all in the next few weeks?

It's fucking crazy.

+1 on all of that

Loading yourself with more heavy debt (which your party said should be avoided at all cost a few years ago), pretending business will be booming soon (despite all the realities of Brexit which they fought for) and saddling people and businesses with tax burdens in the years to come, and all to help your mates to a few million extra in profits, and the cabinet seats they fancy.

Truss may at least answer questions, but her ideology (adopted out of ambition and not based on any sense, as she has none) could well harm the country more than Boris' lies.

Make no mistake, the ideology of looting the public purse to reward chums and donors(paymasters) while eroding the rights of ordinary people was very much at the heart of the Johnson administration too. His lot just occasionally stayed their hand and tried to mask what they were doing. The mask is well and truly off with Truss and her bunch of disaster capitalists.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:28 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:02 pm You are wrong on both counts.

1) I'll repeat what I said before on this kinda subject. One of my (more militant, granted) Ghanaian friends Jennifer always used to say something like "White people invented racism. White people perpetuated racism (still do actually). White people don't now get the f**k to tell me what is and isn't racist too."

I can categorically tell you that probably all my black friends and relatives (pretty sure I have more than you and so a much larger sample size) , militant or not, will agree with the use of the term coconut for the black cabinet ministers in the earlier post. I'll put aside the Asian ones because coconut is not part of Asians' lexicon. So, who do you think is right? You or them?

2) You still don't get it. What apartheid was doing was using power and politics to create separation of wealth and power delineated by a combo of race, culture (primarily these 2) and class. The Tories are up to exactly the same game. It is the Tories who are pushing "stay in your separate lane" and anyone signing up to that manifesto is doing exactly the same. No amount of twisted logic, tautology or one sided intellectual idealism put forth by you is going to flip the debate to your side. Your gaping flaw is in the assertion in this line:
"Guess what Afrikaners were told by other Afrikaners when they dared to challenge anything back in the day.............."
because there, there were Afrikaaners seeking to change from within (though a minuscule number compared with what most safas would like us to believe today much in the same way that in France, everyone's ancestors were in the Resistance) WHEREAS these c**ts aren't attempting to change anything. Absolutely the reverse. They are trying to enforce the status quo whilst benefiting from it themselves. These are not change activists in the manner of your Afrikaaner martyr example at all. They are much more akin to the Jewish camp "guards" who aided the Nazis in their activities against their own people. And yeah, I know I just invoked Godwin's Law.

When someone's uses an obvious pejorative that includes racial thinking, I don't side with the people using it. I side with those it's being used against. Of course I side with Kemi Badenoch when you think it's fine she's called a coconut, it's not fine. You won't get a functional multi racial society from that way of thinking.

I'm specifically not telling anyone how to behave, I'm doing the opposite and opposing the idea if someone supports a certain political party this means they're a race traitor.

I don't think you understand my example at all. In the 1948 general election most of the white electorate voted for Smuts and the United Party, because of the electoral system at the time (FPTP Westminster system) the National Party won. Apartheid was the platform for change the National party ran on, this election brought it in. The argument against Smuts and others (Adolf Malan and the WW2 veterans etc) was that they were really Anglos and traitors who opposed change, SA had never historically been a really wealthy place where Afrikaners got a sweet deal before then. And because everyone that could've said "this is total bullshit" was silent or agreed, that argument won through the 50s/60s and the rest is history.

The Tories are cynically using race (and other identity traits like gender) in their culture war game. Calling everyone that's black and a Tory a coconut, seems like an extreme over reaction to me. If they're wrong, just explain how they are.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:28 pm When someone's uses an obvious pejorative that includes racial thinking, I don't side with the people using it. I side with those it's being used against. Of course I side with Kemi Badenoch when you think it's fine she's called a coconut, it's not fine. You won't get a functional multi racial society from that way of thinking.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:28 pm I'm specifically not telling anyone how to behave, I'm doing the opposite and opposing the idea if someone supports a certain political party this means they're a race traitor.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:28 pm I don't think you understand my example at all. In the 1948 general election most of the white electorate voted for Smuts and the United Party, because of the electoral system at the time (FPTP Westminster system) the National Party won. Apartheid was the platform for change the National party ran on, this election brought it in. The argument against Smuts and others (Adolf Malan and the WW2 veterans etc) was that they were really Anglos and traitors who opposed change, SA had never historically been a really wealthy place where Afrikaners got a sweet deal before then. And because everyone that could've said "this is total bullshit" was silent or agreed, that argument won through the 50s/60s and the rest is history.

The Tories are cynically using race (and other identity traits like gender) in their culture war game. Calling everyone that's black and a Tory a coconut, seems like an extreme over reaction to me. If they're wrong, just explain how they are.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:26 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:28 pm When someone's uses an obvious pejorative that includes racial thinking, I don't side with the people using it. I side with those it's being used against. Of course I side with Kemi Badenoch when you think it's fine she's called a coconut, it's not fine. You won't get a functional multi racial society from that way of thinking.

Yes. It's your prerogative under free will/speech. Just don't expect most coloured people to see it for anything other than what it is: another piece of white, middle class, exhibitionist moral superiority. "Them crackers still thinks theys know whass best for us" as one of my friend's sons would say.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:26 pm I understood it perfectly. What you fail to grasp (or are wilfully ignoring) is the opposite directions of travel in your original example versus this discussion:
1) The 5 white South Africans who actually opposed Apartheid were going against the incumbent evil.
2) The coconuts are siding with the incumbent evil.
Do I need to distil this down to monosyllabic sentences as an aide?

Liz Truss scraps appointment of Christopher Chope to partygate inquiry into Boris Johnson

The new Prime Minister withdraws two motions to appoint the controversial backbencher to the Commons privileges committee

Liz Truss has shelved Boris Johnson’s plans to nominate Tory MP Christopher Chope to the body that will be investigating whether the former prime minister lied to Parliament over the partygate scandal.

In one of her first acts as Prime Minister on Tuesday evening she withdrew two motions to appoint the controversial backbencher to the Commons privileges committee.

The cross-bench group is conducting an inquiry into whether Mr Johnson committed contempt of Parliament by insisting there were no lockdown-busting parties at No 10.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:22 pm Chope is an absolute twunt. Career backbencher in a safe seat, he can be an awful human being on the public purse with utter impunity.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:36 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:30 pm Seen a fair few comments on Twitter saying Truss has had a hell of a first week and expressing a bit of sympathy for her.

Personally I’m very confident she’ll manage to go downhill from here.

Bollox. Its manna from heaven time for Truss. Never waste a good crisis and all that

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:50 pm Here's a picture of some of the 5 white South African's that opposed apartheid when it was actually being brought in, at a vigil opposing the stripping of the coloured franchise (coloured in the SA sense, not whatever way you're using it). You think you know the history but you don't, how was it an "incumbent evil" if they were trying to stop a change happening?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:06 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:50 pm Here's a picture of some of the 5 white South African's that opposed apartheid when it was actually being brought in, at a vigil opposing the stripping of the coloured franchise (coloured in the SA sense, not whatever way you're using it). You think you know the history but you don't, how was it an "incumbent evil" if they were trying to stop a change happening?

Nah. You just moved the goalposts by shifting the time frame backwards in order that your example now attempts to portray those preventing an evil becoming incumbent. It matters not a jot because the debate centres on those joining an incumbent evil whose principles are openly aligned against the bulk of blacks and their culture.

I can't see any picture. Just says "image". Here's one for you:

Love. The Tories.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:42 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:06 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:50 pm Here's a picture of some of the 5 white South African's that opposed apartheid when it was actually being brought in, at a vigil opposing the stripping of the coloured franchise (coloured in the SA sense, not whatever way you're using it). You think you know the history but you don't, how was it an "incumbent evil" if they were trying to stop a change happening?

Nah. You just moved the goalposts by shifting the time frame backwards in order that your example now attempts to portray those preventing an evil becoming incumbent. It matters not a jot because the debate centres on those joining an incumbent evil whose principles are openly aligned against the bulk of blacks and their culture.

I can't see any picture. Just says "image". Here's one for you:

Love. The Tories.

Read the posts again, I didn't shift any goal posts, you just didn't understand the point I was making and I had to repeat it (why did I refer to 1948/Smuts/Adolf Malan/WW2 veterans in an earlier post if I was referring to another time?). You finally got it when I put a picture in if you saw it or not.

You think the coconut racist slur is fine, in other words that calling someone a racial traitor is fine. But what world would you create if you won under those conditions? If someone that isn't white is a racial traitor ie a coconut for supporting the Tories, does that mean a white person is a racial traitor for supporting Labour or can white people support any party they like? This may seem a bit pointless and academic now, but births and migration mean the UK will be about 40% not white in a few decades, so it isn't really.

I'm very familiar with the UK's hostile environment and the Windrush scandal. I'm literally a national of an African country who moved to the UK when my parents did. When the subject of expertise comes up on here, I say I'm not an expert and that I'm just commenting on things which interest me. I hardly need a picture of a van on this subject though, for whatever sin I committed in a past life I am an expert on it (probably above anyone else commenting on here). Things got a lot worse under this Tory government, but the failures in that system are decades old and all to do with the UK attempting to shed colonies without inheriting the populations of those colonies (something it will ultimately fail in), it's beyond just being the Tories.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:36 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:30 pm Seen a fair few comments on Twitter saying Truss has had a hell of a first week and expressing a bit of sympathy for her.

Personally I’m very confident she’ll manage to go downhill from here.

Bollox. Its manna from heaven time for Truss. Never waste a good crisis and all that

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:05 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:36 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:30 pm Seen a fair few comments on Twitter saying Truss has had a hell of a first week and expressing a bit of sympathy for her.

Personally I’m very confident she’ll manage to go downhill from here.

Bollox. Its manna from heaven time for Truss. Never waste a good crisis and all that

Christ knows what horrible shit they'll sneak out in the next few weeks. Geological report on fracking already back on the shelf.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:22 am

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:42 pm You think the coconut racist slur is fine,

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:05 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:42 pm You think the coconut racist slur is fine,

FFS, this is like groundhog day. You don't get to dictate whether the term "coconut" is racist or not in the context being discussed here. Period. That's the whole crux. You just shouting "it's racist"

doesn't make it so.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:05 pm FFS, this is like groundhog day. You don't get to dictate whether the term "coconut" is racist or not in the context being discussed here. Period. That's the whole crux. You just shouting "it's racist"

doesn't make it so.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:22 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:05 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:42 pm You think the coconut racist slur is fine,

FFS, this is like groundhog day. You don't get to dictate whether the term "coconut" is racist or not in the context being discussed here. Period. That's the whole crux. You just shouting "it's racist"

doesn't make it so.

If you think calling non-white people Coconuts is acceptable, in any circumstance whatsoever, then you are a racist, end of.

If you disagree, I have a test for you, go to your place of work or any other public place and start calling non-white people Coconuts. Then kindly report back.

Until you have done that, shut up.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:39 pm I'm not "just shouting "it's racist"" though am I. As a South African you learn to not to do that and just keep pressing on. Over multiple posts I first defined the term coconut describing why it was racist, and then described what the political consequences of that type of thinking are in a society, with an example. To make this post in reply to me, you had to ignore my points, you also ignored my questions about the latter part of all that (the inevitable consequences if the thinking you advocate becomes entrenched). Do you think only people that aren't white can be racial traitors if they support the Tories, and within the context of an increasingly multiracial society do you think this thinking somehow won't be applied to whites if it flourishes, that they too will be racial traitors if they support a certain party?

Very funny about not thinking I knew anything about the hostile environment and the Windrush scandal also, despite actually being an African living in the UK. Then ignoring my reply there also. Have you ever completed a Windrush Scheme application for yourself or a relative, do you know what it entails? Ever been to Lunar House and told your case was all to difficult and to basically fuck off?

You're out of your depth.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:49 am

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:22 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:05 pm

FFS, this is like groundhog day. You don't get to dictate whether the term "coconut" is racist or not in the context being discussed here. Period. That's the whole crux. You just shouting "it's racist"

doesn't make it so.

If you think calling non-white people Coconuts is acceptable, in any circumstance whatsoever, then you are a racist, end of.

If you disagree, I have a test for you, go to your place of work or any other public place and start calling non-white people Coconuts. Then kindly report back.

Until you have done that, shut up.

I have a tip for you. Unless you are non white, I suggest you keep your opinions of what is and what isn't racist to non white people to yourself because we actually aren't interested in your your white privilege arrogance which , like JKM would be staggering were it not oh so typical.