So, coronavirus...

[Raggs]

Should have suggested that maybe they were well ahead because every one else was happy to help out, whilst they were being selfish pricks.

[Sandstorm]

Slightly unpleasant 2nd jag experience this morning.

I had to rebook last week when my appointment came through as I'm away. Eventually got one through in Glasgow and was up early this morning and drove over. Queue moved quick, all very well organised, sat down with my jagger who looked me up and said sorry, we can't do you here. He said that since I was from Lothian health board Glasgow wouldn't do it and I shouldn't be there. Showed him my booking from the NHS and he went away, came back 15 minutes later and asked me to leave!

I then spoke with the head nurse who said no as well, then changed her mind, but gave me a big lecture. Went back to the guy who then spent 5 minutes telling me that Glasgow was well ahead of anywhere else in Scotland so why should they be helping out other NHS boards....

Anyway, got it eventually.

There are unpleasant people in Glasgow????

[Biffer]

Glasgow is most definitely not well ahead. It has one of the lowest rates of first and second doses in the country. The islands are well ahead of everyone.

[Slick]

Glasgow is most definitely not well ahead. It has one of the lowest rates of first and second doses in the country. The islands are well ahead of everyone.

I guess I just got a guy having a bad day, but it was all very odd. His main issue, which he kept repeating, was that they now have a walk in capability and somene had come from Dundee yesterday

[Saint]

Interesting analysis form PHE data. A single dose of either AZ or Pfizer appears to reduce your chance of needing hospitalisation by 75%, regardless of variant. What the variants change is whether you become infected. And a double dose of either vaccine prevents hospitalisation by more than 90%. All in all, extremely promising data

[Dogbert]

Glasgow is most definitely not well ahead. It has one of the lowest rates of first and second doses in the country. The islands are well ahead of everyone.

Lots of the outlying regions have different demographics ( i.e older people compared to younger people ) so they will be showing a much higher percentage of people vaccinated

The major Urban areas in Scotland will have a younger demographic ,and at this stage will have lower rates - they will catch up pretty quickly

[TheNatalShark]

Some contrasting early reports of the outcome of the EU Commissions case legal case against AZ, AZ stating court ruled in their favour and no additional doses due before June, whilst EU press release details the court ordered a different time table and the sought €10 penalty per a dose if the timetable isn't met. Although the time table doesn't seem aggressive so looks very much in AZ's favour

[BnM]

The Anglo-Swedish firm committed in a contract to do its best to deliver to the 27-nation bloc 300 million doses by the end of June, but production problems led the pharmaceutical company to revise down its target to 100 million vaccines.

The cuts in the supplies delayed the EU’s vaccination drive in the first quarter of the year, when the bloc had initially bet on AstraZeneca to deliver the largest volume of jabs. That led to a bitter dispute and to the EU’s legal action to get at least 120 million doses by the end of June.

But the judge said the company should only deliver 80.2 million doses by a deadline of 27 September, AstraZeneca said.

[BnM]

I think AZ has this one.

[TheNatalShark]

We'll have to await the actual court judgement releases, but the AZ claim they will only need to deliver 80mm doses by end of September is clearly nonsense as it doesn't make a lick of sense Vs actuals, whilst the EU claim and timetable makes sense and is around current production rates, but its claim that AZ would be liable for financial compensation if it doesn't meet the 50mm target is as equally incredulous because it's unlikely to happen. Nor is it the €10 per a dose per a day after June they wanted.

[Biffer]

Glasgow is most definitely not well ahead. It has one of the lowest rates of first and second doses in the country. The islands are well ahead of everyone.

Lots of the outlying regions have different demographics ( i.e older people compared to younger people ) so they will be showing a much higher percentage of people vaccinated

The major Urban areas in Scotland will have a younger demographic ,and at this stage will have lower rates - they will catch up pretty quickly

I know. According to a neighbour who works for PHS, this is part of the story, but when it comes to NHS Lothian for example, one of the other factors is that they are, and I quote, 'fucking useless'.

[The Druid]

Some contrasting early reports of the outcome of the EU Commissions case legal case against AZ, AZ stating court ruled in their favour and no additional doses due before June, whilst EU press release details the court ordered a different time table and the sought €10 penalty per a dose if the timetable isn't met. Although the time table doesn't seem aggressive so looks very much in AZ's favour

[quote

BRUSSELS/LONDON, June 18 (Reuters) - AstraZeneca said on Friday the European Union had lost a legal case against the pharmaceutical firm over the supply of COVID-19 vaccines, with a court in Brussels rejecting an EU request for more deliveries by the end of June.

But European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Friday's ruling supported the EU's view that AstraZeneca -- against which the bloc has recently launched a second lawsuit -- had failed to meet its commitments.

The Anglo-Swedish pharmaceutical giant committed in a contract to do its best to deliver 300 million doses to the 27-nation bloc by the end of June, but production problems led the company to revise down its target to 100 million vaccines.

The supply cuts delayed the EU's vaccination drive in the first quarter of the year, when the bloc had initially bet on AstraZeneca to deliver the largest volume of its shots. That led to a bitter dispute and to the EU's legal action to get at least 120 million doses by the end of June.

But AstraZeneca said a judge had ruled that it should deliver only 80.2 million doses by a deadline of Sept. 27. The company said it would "substantially exceed" that amount by the end of June.

The court said in a statement that AstraZeneca must deliver 15 million doses by July 26, another 20 million by Aug. 23 and another 15 million by Sept. 27, for a total of 50 million doses.

Should the company miss these deadlines it would face a penalty of "10 euros ($11.8) per dose not delivered", the EU Commission said.

AstraZeneca said other measures sought by the Commission had been dismissed, and the court had found that the EU had no exclusivity or right of priority over other parties the drugmaker had contracts with.

"The judgment also acknowledged that the difficulties experienced by AstraZeneca in this unprecedented situation had a substantial impact on the delay," AstraZeneca said in a statement.

"AstraZeneca now looks forward to renewed collaboration with the European Commission to help combat the pandemic in E

Our Standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

][/quote]

https://news.trust.org/item/20210618111233-24dpw/

[Saint]

Some contrasting early reports of the outcome of the EU Commissions case legal case against AZ, AZ stating court ruled in their favour and no additional doses due before June, whilst EU press release details the court ordered a different time table and the sought €10 penalty per a dose if the timetable isn't met. Although the time table doesn't seem aggressive so looks very much in AZ's favour

It's a little bit odd. Seems that the judges ruled that the EU has no exclusive right or priority over vaccine doses manufactured by AZ, wherever they're manufactured. It then though sets a schedule of 80.2 million doses to be delivered by September - presumably their interpretation of "best efforts" but seeing as AZ have delivered 70 million already then that;s not particularly challenging

[Saint]

I think AZ has this one.

It seems pretty clear that AZ has this, for all Irsula's waffling. The only thing that the EU have managed to get is a clear penalty should AZ fail to meet the new court imposed delivery schedule

[TheNatalShark]

Some contrasting early reports of the outcome of the EU Commissions case legal case against AZ, AZ stating court ruled in their favour and no additional doses due before June, whilst EU press release details the court ordered a different time table and the sought €10 penalty per a dose if the timetable isn't met. Although the time table doesn't seem aggressive so looks very much in AZ's favour

It's a little bit odd. Seems that the judges ruled that the EU has no exclusive right or priority over vaccine doses manufactured by AZ, wherever they're manufactured. It then though sets a schedule of 80.2 million doses to be delivered by September - presumably their interpretation of "best efforts" but seeing as AZ have delivered 70 million already then that;s not particularly challenging

He said / she said at the moment yes, but I'm interpreting the AZ press release of 80mm by September as a Comms issue as it isn't grounded in reality. I can't imagine a court providing a judgement so devoid from reality like that, and how does it square up with the below (as mentioned above). Also the case isn't actually resolved yet - it's just judgement on the interim measures EU "sought" of 120mm by June close and the penalty of €10 per dose per a day.

Whether the objective sought was realistically that, or another run of the mill EU legal engagement to exert itself is another matter.


"The court said in a statement that AstraZeneca must deliver 15 million doses by July 26, another 20 million by Aug. 23 and another 15 million by Sept. 27, for a total of 50 million doses.

Should the company miss these deadlines it would face a penalty of "10 euros ($11.8) per dose not delivered", the EU Commission said."

[Saint]

Some contrasting early reports of the outcome of the EU Commissions case legal case against AZ, AZ stating court ruled in their favour and no additional doses due before June, whilst EU press release details the court ordered a different time table and the sought €10 penalty per a dose if the timetable isn't met. Although the time table doesn't seem aggressive so looks very much in AZ's favour

It's a little bit odd. Seems that the judges ruled that the EU has no exclusive right or priority over vaccine doses manufactured by AZ, wherever they're manufactured. It then though sets a schedule of 80.2 million doses to be delivered by September - presumably their interpretation of "best efforts" but seeing as AZ have delivered 70 million already then that;s not particularly challenging

He said / she said at the moment yes, but I'm interpreting the AZ press release of 80mm by September as a Comms issue as it isn't grounded in reality. I can't imagine a court providing a judgement so devoid from reality like that, and how does it square up with the below (as mentioned above). Also the case isn't actually resolved yet - it's just judgement on the interim measures EU "sought" of 120mm by June close and the penalty of €10 per dose per a day.

Whether the objective sought was realistically that, or another run of the mill EU legal engagement to exert itself is another matter.


"The court said in a statement that AstraZeneca must deliver 15 million doses by July 26, another 20 million by Aug. 23 and another 15 million by Sept. 27, for a total of 50 million doses.

Should the company miss these deadlines it would face a penalty of "10 euros ($11.8) per dose not delivered", the EU Commission said."

Even those volumes should be pretty easy to achieve. At least according to the AZ release everything else has been dismissed, and even Ursula isn;t claiming otherwise. All still early reports and spin though

[Calculon]

Interesting analysis form PHE data. A single dose of either AZ or Pfizer appears to reduce your chance of needing hospitalisation by 75%, regardless of variant. What the variants change is whether you become infected. And a double dose of either vaccine prevents hospitalisation by more than 90%. All in all, extremely promising data

Do you have a link?

Good news but not maybe not surprising since we know that with the other voc's even when antibody production is 5 times lower we still get a similar response of nk cell activation, adcp and of the compliment cascade. The same thing happening here it seems

[Saint]

Interesting analysis form PHE data. A single dose of either AZ or Pfizer appears to reduce your chance of needing hospitalisation by 75%, regardless of variant. What the variants change is whether you become infected. And a double dose of either vaccine prevents hospitalisation by more than 90%. All in all, extremely promising data

Do you have a link?

Good news but not maybe not surprising since we know that with the other voc's even when antibody production is 5 times lower we still get a similar response of nk cell activation, adcp and of the compliment cascade. The same thing happening here it seems

BBC Reported it linking to the original PHE study https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ing_16.pdf

[TheNatalShark]

Even those volumes should be pretty easy to achieve. At least according to the AZ release everything else has been dismissed, and even Ursula isn;t claiming otherwise. All still early reports and spin though

Yes the volumes are pretty much run rate right now. Weird that the judgement does reference the 80mm but the timetables don't make sense given the first two have already been met. Maybe there will be a clarification. The judgement release indicates that based on the contractual negotiations the British sites should have been used in delivery attempts and that failing to do so warrants an 'appearance' of beach of contract. Which, beyond the doses they want (and probably weren't expecting to get), gets the EU's probably desired outcome of vague 'AZ did not meet its obligations'.

Invariably a pretty weak judgement where the only meaningful penalty is that AZ has to pay its own and €5mm of EU's legal costs. By dint of early press release AZ got to proclaim itself as a winner, and the domestic PR of news outlets parroting probably outweighs that cost.

Everyone is a winner!

(For now, the AZ statement that all other aspects have been dismissed is simply not true and final judgement is deferred until September and after the outlined 50mm timetable)

[Calculon]

Interesting analysis form PHE data. A single dose of either AZ or Pfizer appears to reduce your chance of needing hospitalisation by 75%, regardless of variant. What the variants change is whether you become infected. And a double dose of either vaccine prevents hospitalisation by more than 90%. All in all, extremely promising data

Do you have a link?

Good news but not maybe not surprising since we know that with the other voc's even when antibody production is 5 times lower we still get a similar response of nk cell activation, adcp and of the compliment cascade. The same thing happening here it seems

BBC Reported it linking to the original PHE study https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ing_16.pdf

[BnM]

The court ordered AstraZeneca to pay just 30% of the commission’s legal fees, with a cap set at €4,000 (£3,440)....

....The court recognised, however, the company’s failure to use the vaccines made at an Oxford Biomedica plant in the UK to fulfil its EU contract was inconsistent with making “best reasonable efforts”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... id-vaccine

Graun can't spin it pro EU.

[Ovals]

Even those volumes should be pretty easy to achieve. At least according to the AZ release everything else has been dismissed, and even Ursula isn;t claiming otherwise. All still early reports and spin though

Yes the volumes are pretty much run rate right now. Weird that the judgement does reference the 80mm but the timetables don't make sense given the first two have already been met. Maybe there will be a clarification. The judgement release indicates that based on the contractual negotiations the British sites should have been used in delivery attempts and that failing to do so warrants an 'appearance' of beach of contract. Which, beyond the doses they want (and probably weren't expecting to get), gets the EU's probably desired outcome of vague 'AZ did not meet its obligations'.

Invariably a pretty weak judgement where the only meaningful penalty is that AZ has to pay its own and €5mm of EU's legal costs. By dint of early press release AZ got to proclaim itself as a winner, and the domestic PR of news outlets parroting probably outweighs that cost.

Everyone is a winner!

(For now, the AZ statement that all other aspects have been dismissed is simply not true and final judgement is deferred until September and after the outlined 50mm timetable)

A fair bit less than 5m

The court ordered AstraZeneca to pay just 30% of the commission’s legal fees, with a cap set at €4,000 (£3,440).

I suspect AZ will be ok with that..........

[TheNatalShark]

A fair bit less than 5m

The court ordered AstraZeneca to pay just 30% of the commission’s legal fees, with a cap set at €4,000 (£3,440).

I suspect AZ will be ok with that..........

Yup I meant 5k rather than 5mm. It would be some effort (and judgement) if they racked up EUR5mm of reimbursable legal costs in the space of a month.

5k includes that AZ has to cover 70% of some court fees. Here is the actual court release:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... 6-2021.pdf

[TheNatalShark]

Wondering if the laid out timetable for future doses presents a theoretical opportunity (not that I think they would take it) for AZ to challenge the legality of the 'transparency' export mechanism through the courts and sue the Commission for either the outright export by Italy or the background pressure in not having freedom to export as desired. If the mechanism exists on legal grounds as a means of state intervention to enforce the fulfilment of contracts, when the court has ruled there is no primacy of fulfilment in favour for or against it's contract with the EU, the logical conclusion for me is that the prescribed basis (if my understanding is correct) doesn't exist.

[Openside]

Glasgow is most definitely not well ahead. It has one of the lowest rates of first and second doses in the country. The islands are well ahead of everyone.

I guess I just got a guy having a bad day, but it was all very odd. His main issue, which he kept repeating, was that they now have a walk in capability and somene had come from Dundee yesterday

Surely as long as they can record who they are jabbing they should be sticking everyone happy to have it.

I am bored with the anti vaxxers now - quite frankly I am coming round to the opinion that they deserve every inconvenience that is going to be heaped on them. Its all about the greater good...

[Saint]

A fair bit less than 5m

The court ordered AstraZeneca to pay just 30% of the commission’s legal fees, with a cap set at €4,000 (£3,440).

I suspect AZ will be ok with that..........

Yup I meant 5k rather than 5mm. It would be some effort (and judgement) if they racked up EUR5mm of reimbursable legal costs in the space of a month.

5k includes that AZ has to cover 70% of some court fees. Here is the actual court release:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... 6-2021.pdf

For the EU? I suspect that they could rack up 5 million in legal costs over their Monday morning cappuccino

[Saint]

Jab 2 done. 5G here I come!

[SaintK]

Jab 2 done. 5G here I come!

I'm 4 weeks in after my second and still waiting for 5G to kick in

[duke]

Jab 2 done. 5G here I come!

I'm 4 weeks in after my second and still waiting for 5G to kick in

8 weeks and counting and still rubbish reception

[ScarfaceClaw]

I got mine last week. Hit me like a ton of bricks. Felt abysmal for a couple of days. Drank litres of water but couldn’t shake that mouth as dry as a desert feeling.

[BnM]

This is interesting. Moe info on whether AZ does cause clots. Numbers higher than expected for clots but Covid also is indicated for clots. No definitive answer yet?

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/st ... a-vaccine/

[Slick]

I got mine last week. Hit me like a ton of bricks. Felt abysmal for a couple of days. Drank litres of water but couldn’t shake that mouth as dry as a desert feeling.

Yup, I’ve been feeling absolutely shite after my 2nd yesterday. Kicked in about 6!hours after but Feels like it’s starting to lift a bit now

[Lobby]

I got mine last week. Hit me like a ton of bricks. Felt abysmal for a couple of days. Drank litres of water but couldn’t shake that mouth as dry as a desert feeling.

Yup, I’ve been feeling absolutely shite after my 2nd yesterday. Kicked in about 6!hours after but Feels like it’s starting to lift a bit now

I must have been very fortunate. No adverse reaction to either jab; not even a sore arm.

[Saint]

I got mine last week. Hit me like a ton of bricks. Felt abysmal for a couple of days. Drank litres of water but couldn’t shake that mouth as dry as a desert feeling.

Yup, I’ve been feeling absolutely shite after my 2nd yesterday. Kicked in about 6!hours after but Feels like it’s starting to lift a bit now

What did you two get? Pfizer?

[Slick]

I got mine last week. Hit me like a ton of bricks. Felt abysmal for a couple of days. Drank litres of water but couldn’t shake that mouth as dry as a desert feeling.

Yup, I’ve been feeling absolutely shite after my 2nd yesterday. Kicked in about 6!hours after but Feels like it’s starting to lift a bit now

What did you two get? Pfizer?

Moderna for me. Just had a bit of a sore arm after the first

[Saint]

Yup, I’ve been feeling absolutely shite after my 2nd yesterday. Kicked in about 6!hours after but Feels like it’s starting to lift a bit now

What did you two get? Pfizer?

Moderna for me. Just had a bit of a sore arm after the first

OK - so provisionally Moderna would be like Pfizer then - no side effects after jab 1, but if you're going to get anything it'll be after jab 2

[Slick]

What did you two get? Pfizer?

Moderna for me. Just had a bit of a sore arm after the first

OK - so provisionally Moderna would be like Pfizer then - no side effects after jab 1, but if you're going to get anything it'll be after jab 2

The jabber said to expect the 2nd to be a bit worse than the first

[Saint]

Moderna for me. Just had a bit of a sore arm after the first

OK - so provisionally Moderna would be like Pfizer then - no side effects after jab 1, but if you're going to get anything it'll be after jab 2

The jabber said to expect the 2nd to be a bit worse than the first

Sounds that way. It's the reverse for AZ on the whole. Of course, the enormous majority of people don't suffer anything at all

[Slick]

OK - so provisionally Moderna would be like Pfizer then - no side effects after jab 1, but if you're going to get anything it'll be after jab 2

The jabber said to expect the 2nd to be a bit worse than the first

Sounds that way. It's the reverse for AZ on the whole. Of course, the enormous majority of people don't suffer anything at all

Yes, I’m strangely disappointed in myself

[ScarfaceClaw]

Yup, I’ve been feeling absolutely shite after my 2nd yesterday. Kicked in about 6!hours after but Feels like it’s starting to lift a bit now

What did you two get? Pfizer?

Moderna for me. Just had a bit of a sore arm after the first

Moderna for me as well.