NPR

C69 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:43 pm I don't actually keep a log of all the news reports I watch I am afraid. It was on either the Beeb or ITV.
Or perhaps Sky.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:47 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:43 pm I don't actually keep a log of all the news reports I watch I am afraid. It was on either the Beeb or ITV.
Or perhaps Sky.

Narrowing it down nicely then. And absolutely no written reports that I can see. Any chance you misheard/misunderstood? I would have thought the UN confirming the evidence of white phosphorus used in likely war crime situations, would have been all over the news.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:02 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:47 pm Ethnic cleansing in action, in real time. Decent Israelis should be appalled:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-ea ... -ever-seen

Giving civilians a designated safe route to leave a war zone = ethnic cleansing apparently. Rather than just being a decent thing to do.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:39 pm Guys, re the reports about posts in this thread.

If we can stay civil and debate the two sides to an arguments, the moderators will keep away. It's not up to us to "take sides", no matter what our personal views are.

So far, so good. Well done for that.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:24 pm Police investigate 'attack' on poppy seller at pro-Palestinian demo in Edinburgh https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-67344032

Apparently the majority involved in this protest were students from Edinburgh University. My mates daughter is in her first year there and says life is almost intolerable because of it. Kids getting press ganged by threats and intimidation to sign up to financial support for Palestine, antisemitism is off the scale and Hamas flags and t-shirts being openly displayed. Anyone who doesn't fall in line is having their life made a misery. She pointed this out to one of her tutors and his advice was stay away from campus until it subsides.

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:24 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:02 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:47 pm Ethnic cleansing in action, in real time. Decent Israelis should be appalled:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-ea ... -ever-seen

Giving civilians a designated safe route to leave a war zone = ethnic cleansing apparently. Rather than just being a decent thing to do.

Israel, decent?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:21 am I wonder how many of those 136 kids a day have parents who are Hamas soldiers? Did they send their own families South last month?

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:24 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:21 am I wonder how many of those 136 kids a day have parents who are Hamas soldiers? Did they send their own families South last month?

Considering anyone under eighteen is a child, and Hamas use child soldiers, how many are Hamas themselves?

How fudged are the numbers?

That's not to say innocents aren't being killed.

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:17 am

During the whole Cobyn anti semitic thing, you had Jews phoning in O'brien, deeply upset by Corbyn, when asked to provide reasons why they were upset, all couldn't and most said it was because of the perception of anti semitism.

Perception?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am In my experience White, English-speaking Saffers tend to get viewed (in the UK anyway) as less racist than White Afrikaners. That might also be classed as a pass?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am In my experience White, English-speaking Saffers tend to get viewed (in the UK anyway) as less racist than White Afrikaners. That might also be classed as a pass?

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:32 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am In my experience White, English-speaking Saffers tend to get viewed (in the UK anyway) as less racist than White Afrikaners. That might also be classed as a pass?

As an Afrikaner that lived in the UK for many years that’s not my experience at all. The one and only time someone assumed I must be racist was when a guy in his 40s went on about how awful the Blacks were and though I would agree with him cos I was a white South African. I’m pretty certain he would have been the same with me even if I was a Soutie

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:17 am Funny that Colin Jackson said he never faced racist abuse for being black, when traveling to England....only for being welsh.


All of these things are interesting, as an example of something..

During the whole Cobyn anti semitic thing, you had Jews phoning in O'brien, deeply upset by Corbyn, when asked to provide reasons why they were upset, all couldn't and most said it was because of the perception of anti semitism.

Perception?

The only fucking chance we had, for the UK to steer away from right wing destructive policies, that litterally killed and was killing hundreds of thousands of people, was being wrecked because of a perception.

Attention seeking shithousery.

"Yeah fuck the poor sick and unemployed..let's destroy the Labour Party, their only hope...because not everyone loves us".
I have just lost all patience since then tbh.

Assholes.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:36 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:32 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am In my experience White, English-speaking Saffers tend to get viewed (in the UK anyway) as less racist than White Afrikaners. That might also be classed as a pass?

As an Afrikaner that lived in the UK for many years that’s not my experience at all. The one and only time someone assumed I must be racist was when a guy in his 40s went on about how awful the Blacks were and though I would agree with him cos I was a white South African. I’m pretty certain he would have been the same with me even if I was a Soutie

Shows how different everyone's experience is each time. I always try to be a "nice Saffer" rather than a "non-racist Saffer" & people tend to respond positively to that. :)

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:56 am
A nice Saffer?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:36 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:32 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am In my experience White, English-speaking Saffers tend to get viewed (in the UK anyway) as less racist than White Afrikaners. That might also be classed as a pass?

As an Afrikaner that lived in the UK for many years that’s not my experience at all. The one and only time someone assumed I must be racist was when a guy in his 40s went on about how awful the Blacks were and though I would agree with him cos I was a white South African. I’m pretty certain he would have been the same with me even if I was a Soutie

Shows how different everyone's experience is each time. I always try to be a "nice Saffer" rather than a "non-racist Saffer" & people tend to respond positively to that. :)

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:53 am

Jesus fucking christ, the state of them

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:18 pm Can't say I'm surprise at the UN news centre for posting this, but it's a bit galling to see the 240 hostages not listed anywhere, especially as there's an explicit missing column in Gaza.

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:43 pm Good job it's Civilians making such crass and dangerous statements

The Ex Israeli Heritage minister recently suggested dropping nuclear bombs on Gaza was a credible option as there were non noncombatants in Gaza. Oh and he wanted to stop all medical aid.
He was semi suspended and allowed to participate in a government vote.
This minister represents ultra orthodoxy in Israel
Otzma Yehudit and Hamas seem well suited.

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:43 pm Good job it's Civilians making such crass and dangerous statements

The Israeli Heritage minister recently suggested dropping nuclear bombs on Gaza was a credible option as there were non noncombatants in Gaza. Oh and he wanted to stop all medical aid.
He was semi suspended and allowed to participate in a government vote.
This minister represents ultra orthodoxy in Israel
Otzma Yehudit and Hamas seem well suited.

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:50 pm Well, presumably the ones that have become casualties are listed in the Israeli casualty figures.

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:43 pm Good job it's Civilians making such crass and dangerous statements

The Israeli Heritage minister recently suggested dropping nuclear bombs on Gaza was a credible option as there were non noncombatants in Gaza. Oh and he wanted to stop all medical aid.
He was semi suspended and allowed to participate in a government vote.
This minister represents ultra orthodoxy in Israel
Otzma Yehudit and Hamas seem well suited.

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:57 pm

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:50 pm Well, presumably the ones that have become casualties are listed in the Israeli casualty figures.

But there's no evidence of that, just a claim from their captors that a number have been killed. Even then it's not mentioned. It's not reasonable to not include them in the graphic right?

EDIT - Ultra orthodox are bloody dangerous. The vast majority of Israeli's would love for them to not be around, much like how extremists are viewed by most countries.

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:14 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:57 pm

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:50 pm Well, presumably the ones that have become casualties are listed in the Israeli casualty figures.

But there's no evidence of that, just a claim from their captors that a number have been killed. Even then it's not mentioned. It's not reasonable to not include them in the graphic right?

EDIT - Ultra orthodox are bloody dangerous. The vast majority of Israeli's would love for them to not be around, much like how extremists are viewed by most countries.

They're citing official Israeli sources so if the hostages aren't being included it's an Israeli decision not to count them. Presumably this is working on a clear definition of what a casualty is, which wouldn't include a hostage (unless they'd been killed or injured).

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:15 pm

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:14 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:57 pm

But there's no evidence of that, just a claim from their captors that a number have been killed. Even then it's not mentioned. It's not reasonable to not include them in the graphic right?

EDIT - Ultra orthodox are bloody dangerous. The vast majority of Israeli's would love for them to not be around, much like how extremists are viewed by most countries.

They're citing official Israeli sources so if the hostages aren't being included it's an Israeli decision not to count them. Presumably this is working on a clear definition of what a casualty is, which wouldn't include a hostage (unless they'd been killed or injured).

And a clear definition of what a "missing" is?

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:18 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:15 pm

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:14 pm

They're citing official Israeli sources so if the hostages aren't being included it's an Israeli decision not to count them. Presumably this is working on a clear definition of what a casualty is, which wouldn't include a hostage (unless they'd been killed or injured).

And a clear definition of what a "missing" is?

Actually, I see your point now, apologies.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:04 am David Baddeil's documentary from his own book Jews Don't Count was on Channel 4 last night. I'd recommend it if you get the chance to see it. I watched again having seen it when it first aired a good few months ago, before the atrocities on October the 7th.
I agree with all the points made in the film, I agree that Antisemitism exists on the Left as well as on the Right in the UK, I agree that this is something that is almost seen as being acceptable because "they are white" for the most part and so "it's not racism". Of course he faced some backlash because he uses the term "White privilege", that was a step too far for some.

I wholeheartedly agree with him that Jewish people should not have to answer for Israel, and this is something he went into at length because whenever he makes a statement on social media he gets "what about Israel?" hurled back at him by the bucketload. He says that demanding that Jewish people have an opinion on Israel is a form of Antisemitism, I'm not qualified to say either way, but I'm leaning towards his argument on this.

What he didn't address was that if Jewish people can disassociate themselves with Israel - he repeatedly said that he, as an atheist of Jewish descent, feels no affinity for or link with Israel, then I'd argue that criticism of the actions of the government in that country is not necessarily Antisemitic. Miriam Margolyes was one of the people interviewed and she was highly critical of Israel, in fact she said that Jewish people should speak up against the regime, but I think she eventually came around to Baddeil's position that it shouldn't be compulsory.

As an aside, and perhaps this should be in another thread, but anyway, there was an interview with Jason Lee in which Baddiel finally apologised in person for portraying Lee in blackface as a butt for jokes in a comedy programme he and Frank Skinner had done. I saw that Baddeil had also faced criticism for his use of the word "Pikey" around the same time as that Jason Lee portrayal was being made.
In that film last night the point was made about how Jewish people can "Pass" as white people (David Schwimmer said that he's never felt white) - Baddeil's New York-based niece says that she would feel happier or more at ease about her Jewish father being pulled over by the cops than her black mother.

Anyway this term "pass" was used several times in the film in the context of Jewish people being able to pass as white and so avoiding bigotry for the most part (it was said that Winonna Horowitz would not have become the star that Winonna Ryder did).
I've heard that term "pass" before, this is where "Pikey" comes in. Part of my wife's heritage is Gypsy/Romany, members of that community who have settled and integrated have said that they can "pass", ie not be singled out for the prejudice faced by Travellers and Gypsies/Roma - I'd say that is another group where bigotry is seen as being acceptable.

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:07 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:36 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:32 am

As an Afrikaner that lived in the UK for many years that’s not my experience at all. The one and only time someone assumed I must be racist was when a guy in his 40s went on about how awful the Blacks were and though I would agree with him cos I was a white South African. I’m pretty certain he would have been the same with me even if I was a Soutie

Shows how different everyone's experience is each time. I always try to be a "nice Saffer" rather than a "non-racist Saffer" & people tend to respond positively to that. :)

Yeah, I never tried to be anything. The vast majority of people in England I met judged me after they got to know me rather than on me having a slightly different accent or unpronounceable name.