Slick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:23 am
I must admit that this thread has made me smile a few times in the last months with the ludicrous conspiracy theories, particularly from the likes of dpidin, neeps, os and Saint.
And here we are.... fucking hell, I, obviously naively, thought none of this could actually happen in our country.
I dunno about the conspiracy theories, I still put it down to us being managed by the absolute dregs of an already weak political class.
3rd term governments are generally pretty inept and lacklustre, but the unprecidented fratricidal nature of the current conservative party is something else. They were scraping the bottom of the barrel five years ago, they've now scraped right through it, and are currently scraping through the floor of the pub cellar. They'll be finding lost Roman ruins by the election.
Slick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:23 am
I must admit that this thread has made me smile a few times in the last months with the ludicrous conspiracy theories, particularly from the likes of dpidin, neeps, os and Saint.
And here we are.... fucking hell, I, obviously naively, thought none of this could actually happen in our country.
I dunno about the conspiracy theories, I still put it down to us being managed by the absolute dregs of an already weak political class.
3rd term governments are generally pretty inept and lacklustre, but the unprecidented fratricidal nature of the current conservative party is something else. They were scraping the bottom of the barrel five years ago, they've now scraped right through it, and are currently scraping through the floor of the pub cellar. They'll be finding lost Roman ruins by the election.
That feels eerily like a prophecy for the return of Johnson (which I have also been predicting) and his grab bag of 'I did a Classics degree doncha know?' quotes.
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:13 am
Quite a nice display of why being a regional or provincial journalist doesn't mean you're not as smart or as informed or as incisive as the big name journos
A lot of them are significantly better. No interest in the gossip game
It also shows an arrogance combined with an inability to learn. Johnson got skewered by regional journos during covid. Cut straight through the bullshit unlike Kuenssburg and Peston.
I dunno about the conspiracy theories, I still put it down to us being managed by the absolute dregs of an already weak political class.
3rd term governments are generally pretty inept and lacklustre, but the unprecidented fratricidal nature of the current conservative party is something else. They were scraping the bottom of the barrel five years ago, they've now scraped right through it, and are currently scraping through the floor of the pub cellar. They'll be finding lost Roman ruins by the election.
That feels eerily like a prophecy for the return of Johnson (which I have also been predicting) and his grab bag of 'I did a Classics degree doncha know?' quotes.
I'd be surprised if enough Tory MPs voted to have Johnson on the ballot but squint and you can see a situation where they convince themselves he's their only chance of winning.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:01 pm
by _Os_
Two trends seem to be emerging.
People are blaming the Tories for their mortgage rises. This wasn't the case before the mini budget, but they've fucked things so badly it's all being put on the Tories. These rises were going to happen anyway, but not as severe, and whereas before the peak would be 4%-5% and probably be above 2% for the next half decade, now no one really knows. I don't see how the Tories get out of this, if they say it's not because of them that's not entirely true or believable. If they give the full truth in long detailed paragraphs (which would be a very bad move), they've still been in power for 12 years so they still can't really disassociate themselves from it. Mortgages seems to have replaced/equalled the energy situation very quickly. If that becomes strongly associated with the Tories, then they can forget those it's going to cost voting for them for a much longer period than just the next election.
The Tory position is now tax cuts for the rich to boost growth, this is trickle down economics even though they deny it. But the Tories are also against wage rises because they're inflationary. Even though Tory policy has just boosted inflation. This amount of contradiction isn't sustainable, wage rises (which are inflationary if there's no increase in productivity) look more likely now simply because more people will have sympathy for the unions.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:26 pm
by dpedin
Having fecked up the economy watch out for them fecking up the rest of our lives with all the deregulation they have promised. Shit in the rivers and beaches is just the start of it - environmental, employment and consumer rights are all going to be stripped back to in effect becoming almost non existent. They need to do this to satisfy their dark money bosses and it also falls into their definition of a free market economy - read JRM Snr book the Sovereign Individual. They have given themselves the right to do all this without parliamentary scrutiny and will carry on regardless of public outcry and the economic situation and will hitch it to the new freedoms the UK has post Brexit. Deregulation is also a precursor to the establishment of the tax dodging crook dominated Freeport's/Charter Cities they have planned. They will in effect sell off large parts of our country to the likes of DP World to 'manage' on their behalf. Remember we have seen these before and the EU closed them down following investigations into them being used as tax avoidance havens, to support the movement of criminal activity and goods and money laundering.
If we think feckin up the economy has been bad just wait until they get going with the deregulation agenda and selling off bits of the UK to crooks and dodgy countries like Saudi. Brexit was just the first step in their plan - we are fecked until we get rid of these dangerous feckers.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:35 pm
by fishfoodie
I have a feeling that if they survive, & that's a big if; the first port of call for cutting costs will be the almost complete removal of supports for Farming.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:11 pm
by Torquemada 1420
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:22 am
The thing is, they haven't even done anything yet, they've tanked the economy just by saying what they are going to do.
Precisely. The UK is literally facing Armageddon. They came within a hair's breadth yesterday of all the public sector pensions going pop. And they aren't out of the woods there yet. Good luck telling all the NHS, police, fire service, armed forces etc that they won't be getting a pension after all. Mass civil disobedience doesn't seem quite as distant a possibility as it did a week ago.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:16 pm
by Torquemada 1420
dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:26 pm
Having fecked up the economy watch out for them fecking up the rest of our lives with all the deregulation they have promised. Shit in the rivers and beaches is just the start of it - environmental, employment and consumer rights are all going to be stripped back to in effect becoming almost non existent. They need to do this to satisfy their dark money bosses and it also falls into their definition of a free market economy - read JRM Snr book the Sovereign Individual. They have given themselves the right to do all this without parliamentary scrutiny and will carry on regardless of public outcry and the economic situation and will hitch it to the new freedoms the UK has post Brexit. Deregulation is also a precursor to the establishment of the tax dodging crook dominated Freeport's/Charter Cities they have planned. They will in effect sell off large parts of our country to the likes of DP World to 'manage' on their behalf. Remember we have seen these before and the EU closed them down following investigations into them being used as tax avoidance havens, to support the movement of criminal activity and goods and money laundering.
If we think feckin up the economy has been bad just wait until they get going with the deregulation agenda and selling off bits of the UK to crooks and dodgy countries like Saudi. Brexit was just the first step in their plan - we are fecked until we get rid of these dangerous feckers.
The only public asset left to sell is the NHS. Make sure you have good private medical insurance. Or a spare kidney or two.
dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:26 pm
Having fecked up the economy watch out for them fecking up the rest of our lives with all the deregulation they have promised. Shit in the rivers and beaches is just the start of it - environmental, employment and consumer rights are all going to be stripped back to in effect becoming almost non existent. They need to do this to satisfy their dark money bosses and it also falls into their definition of a free market economy - read JRM Snr book the Sovereign Individual. They have given themselves the right to do all this without parliamentary scrutiny and will carry on regardless of public outcry and the economic situation and will hitch it to the new freedoms the UK has post Brexit. Deregulation is also a precursor to the establishment of the tax dodging crook dominated Freeport's/Charter Cities they have planned. They will in effect sell off large parts of our country to the likes of DP World to 'manage' on their behalf. Remember we have seen these before and the EU closed them down following investigations into them being used as tax avoidance havens, to support the movement of criminal activity and goods and money laundering.
If we think feckin up the economy has been bad just wait until they get going with the deregulation agenda and selling off bits of the UK to crooks and dodgy countries like Saudi. Brexit was just the first step in their plan - we are fecked until we get rid of these dangerous feckers.
The only public asset left to sell is the NHS. Make sure you have good private medical insurance. Or a spare kidney or two.
Private Healthinsurance may cover you for a few minor issues.
The Private Health sector relies on the NHS for so many major health issues, not to mention the Emergency care sector.
This is just as bad. What must her MPs be thinking?!
"That's me fucked at the next election, then"
One thing those c**ts on the 1922 Committee won't stand for is losing their seats. The spectre of losing them for a generation will mean some are already sharpening knives.
dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:26 pm
Having fecked up the economy watch out for them fecking up the rest of our lives with all the deregulation they have promised. Shit in the rivers and beaches is just the start of it - environmental, employment and consumer rights are all going to be stripped back to in effect becoming almost non existent. They need to do this to satisfy their dark money bosses and it also falls into their definition of a free market economy - read JRM Snr book the Sovereign Individual. They have given themselves the right to do all this without parliamentary scrutiny and will carry on regardless of public outcry and the economic situation and will hitch it to the new freedoms the UK has post Brexit. Deregulation is also a precursor to the establishment of the tax dodging crook dominated Freeport's/Charter Cities they have planned. They will in effect sell off large parts of our country to the likes of DP World to 'manage' on their behalf. Remember we have seen these before and the EU closed them down following investigations into them being used as tax avoidance havens, to support the movement of criminal activity and goods and money laundering.
If we think feckin up the economy has been bad just wait until they get going with the deregulation agenda and selling off bits of the UK to crooks and dodgy countries like Saudi. Brexit was just the first step in their plan - we are fecked until we get rid of these dangerous feckers.
The only public asset left to sell is the NHS. Make sure you have good private medical insurance. Or a spare kidney or two.
Private Healthinsurance may cover you for a few minor issues.
The Private Health sector relies on the NHS for so many major health issues, not to mention the Emergency care sector.
This is just as bad. What must her MPs be thinking?!
"That's me fucked at the next election, then"
One thing those c**ts on the 1922 Committee won't stand for is losing their seats. The spectre of losing them for a generation will mean some are already sharpening knives.
Every time #10, or #11 issues a moronic statement, saying, "Non, je ne regrette rien", I think another 5 or 6 letters arrive in Brady's inbox.
This shower of shit are still planning on a Party Conference next week FFS; & I can't imagine anything they can say now; short of announcing a GE, that won't materially worsen the state of the Nation.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:22 pm
by Hal Jordan
Gove to step in and save us as the "sensible candidate"?
Although I often think he's happier being an éminence grise.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:59 pm
by _Os_
Lord Wolfson (the CEO of Next, and a howling Brexiter) is demanding HS2 is scrapped so that tax cuts can be afforded. Of course Lord Wolfson is personally benefiting from reduced taxes.
This is their next move in this mess, they now have an immense tax hole to fill, they're simply to fucking stupid and/or arrogant and/or invested to back down. So the UK is going to have to become a less developed nation (permanently damaging growth) to afford this. If it's not HS2 it has to be something else.
Assuming likely growth by 2026/2027 there will need to be spending cuts of £37bn-£47bn for debt to be falling. As of 2018, Brown's 2008 bank bailout cost £23bn after most of the bailout was recouped. So it looks like these morons are determined to foist an event larger than the 2008 crash onto the UK.
Assuming likely growth by 2026/2027 there will need to be spending cuts of £37bn-£47bn for debt to be falling. As of 2018, Brown's 2008 bank bailout cost £23bn after most of the bailout was recouped. So it looks like these morons are determined to foist an event larger than the 2008 crash onto the UK.
pfff £37bn is all that Test & Trace cost for two years.
Yep, should imagine that will focus the minds of a few Tory MP's and not just those in marginal seats
Labour have 33 point lead over Tories in new YouGov poll
A YouGov poll for The Times puts Labour on a 33 point lead over the Conservatives, understood to be the biggest gap recorded since the late 1990s.
Labour’s lead is fuelled by voters switching directly from the Tories with 17% of those who backed Boris Johnson in 2019 saying they would vote Labour.
Only 37% of 2019 Conservative voters said they were planning to stick with the party
Assuming likely growth by 2026/2027 there will need to be spending cuts of £37bn-£47bn for debt to be falling. As of 2018, Brown's 2008 bank bailout cost £23bn after most of the bailout was recouped. So it looks like these morons are determined to foist an event larger than the 2008 crash onto the UK.
pfff £37bn is all that Test & Trace cost for two years.
I've just looked up how big the reductions were during Austerity MK1, they were smaller £30bn.
So more tax cuts and more cuts to services, and the growth that still hasn't come magically appears. This is a cargo cult.
Jesus, they'll be relegated to 3rd place if it carries on!
EDIT: Put those numbers into electoralcalculus.co.uk, the tories end up with just 3 seats!
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:56 pm
by Lobby
As well as funding tax cuts for the rich from benefits and pension cuts for the poor, the Tories have decided that part of their plan should include increasing health disparities:
"Thérèse Coffey is ditching the government’s long-promised white paper on health inequalities, despite the 19-year gap in life expectancy between rich and poor, the Guardian has been told."
"A second source with knowledge of Coffey’s intentions said: “The disparities paper is toast. My understanding of why they’ve pulled it is [that it’s] ideological — the white paper is an affront to this government’s view of what makes for health.”
One thing those c**ts on the 1922 Committee won't stand for is losing their seats. The spectre of losing them for a generation will mean some are already sharpening knives.
Every time #10, or #11 issues a moronic statement, saying, "Non, je ne regrette rien", I think another 5 or 6 letters arrive in Brady's inbox.
This shower of shit are still planning on a Party Conference next week FFS; & I can't imagine anything they can say now; short of announcing a GE, that won't materially worsen the state of the Nation.
Doesn't matter how many letters are in his inbox there can't be a vote for a year.
To change the course they need resignations on mass e.g. what brought May and Johnson down or make clear in no certain terms publically they won't vote for the programme.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:39 pm
by _Os_
Chris Philp saying triple lock pensions are being considered for the scrap heap to afford the tax cut.
HS2, triple lock pensions, they have £37bn-£45bn to make up for, this bonfire is piss poor so far.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:42 pm
by I like neeps
They can replace them with a string cortet playing Nearer My God To Thee.
Also... These polls are before energy bills go up next week!
It must be bad if Chopper has stopped talking about the royal yacht!
Harwood is a troll explaining Truss' thinking going into number 10 (not her current thinking though you'd guess) and if anyone wants a laugh Grimes was fired from GB News this week who didn't feel the need to even tell him.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:54 pm
by Lobby
Meanwhile Cameron’s Strategy Director had this to say about Truss:
“Polling expert and former strategy director to former prime minister David Cameron, Andrew Cooper, gave his reaction to Liz Truss’s local radio interviews in this evening’s episode of The News Agents podcast.
Lord Cooper told presenters Emily Maitlis and Jon Sopel: “If your starting position is basically to tell a lie, to pretend that something which clearly happened and has clearly gone wrong and clearly wasn’t part of the plan, and to say that hasn’t happened, you know, you’re on incredibly thin ice.
“That’s a terrible strategy for managing a difficult situation.”
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:58 pm
by _Os_
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:52 pm
It must be bad if Chopper has stopped talking about the royal yacht!
Harwood is a troll explaining Truss' thinking going into number 10 (not her current thinking though you'd guess) and if anyone wants a laugh Grimes was fired from GB News this week who didn't feel the need to even tell him.
They're morons and haven't worked out yet that their platform is now a deep recession they're going to be blamed for, mortgage increases they're going to blamed for, and $35bn+ of spending cuts to afford a tax cut aimed at the rich they're going to be blamed for.
This is the most catastrophic politics I've ever seen, maybe (only maybe) Zimbabwe excluded. The ANC have considerably more political sense and pragmatism than this. It's totally batshit.
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:52 pm
It must be bad if Chopper has stopped talking about the royal yacht!
Harwood is a troll explaining Truss' thinking going into number 10 (not her current thinking though you'd guess) and if anyone wants a laugh Grimes was fired from GB News this week who didn't feel the need to even tell him.
They're morons and haven't worked out yet that their platform is now a deep recession they're going to be blamed for, mortgage increases they're going to blamed for, and $35bn+ of spending cuts to afford a tax cut aimed at the rich they're going to be blamed for.
This is the most catastrophic politics I've ever seen, maybe (only maybe) Zimbabwe excluded. The ANC have considerably more political sense and pragmatism than this. It's totally batshit.
I mean true but their job isn't to notice that, it's to spin it. GB News and The Telegraph aren't thanking anyone for digging into the Tories as that's expressly not their job and Grimes who is auditioning for any right wing shock jock gig going won't do that either.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:13 pm
by _Os_
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:06 pm
I mean true but their job isn't to notice that, it's to spin it. GB News and The Telegraph aren't thanking anyone for digging into the Tories as that's expressly not their job and Grimes who is auditioning for any right wing shock jock gig going won't do that either.
As I said days back, they would be helping everyone including themselves if they took all the political damage as soon as possible, admit the mistake and u-turn. That is their best option now, even from the point of view of running the best propaganda rag possible. It's not possible to suspend disbelief like they're asking their readers/listeners to keep doing. It's embarrassing watching these Telegraph and GB News creatures pretend this is all normal.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:20 pm
by fishfoodie
Ahhhh, that's what those uncomfortable silences were in the interviews !
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:42 pm
One thing those c**ts on the 1922 Committee won't stand for is losing their seats. The spectre of losing them for a generation will mean some are already sharpening knives.
Every time #10, or #11 issues a moronic statement, saying, "Non, je ne regrette rien", I think another 5 or 6 letters arrive in Brady's inbox.
This shower of shit are still planning on a Party Conference next week FFS; & I can't imagine anything they can say now; short of announcing a GE, that won't materially worsen the state of the Nation.
Doesn't matter how many letters are in his inbox there can't be a vote for a year.
To change the course they need resignations on mass e.g. what brought May and Johnson down or make clear in no certain terms publically they won't vote for the programme.
Does that carry over to a new Leader, or was it not that if you survived one challenge, you knew you had a clear year before another one ?
In any case; even before the last one, the point was made that the 1922 Committee could just change it's rules to allow a 2nd vote inside is year, if x% of MPs wanted one.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:17 pm
by Torquemada 1420
_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:39 pm
Chris Philp saying triple lock pensions are being considered for the scrap heap to afford the tax cut.
HS2, triple lock pensions, they have £37bn-£45bn to make up for, this bonfire is piss poor so far.
The thick c**t on the Beeb this morning who was extolling the role of the OBR for vetting Krazee's Nov calcs whilst sidestepping that Truss and Krazee decided they could ignore the OBR when formulating this half baked nonsense?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:21 pm
by Torquemada 1420
_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:58 pm
They're morons and haven't worked out yet that their platform is now a deep recession they're going to be blamed for, mortgage increases they're going to blamed for, and $35bn+ of spending cuts to afford a tax cut aimed at the rich they're going to be blamed for.
This is the most catastrophic politics I've ever seen, maybe (only maybe) Zimbabwe excluded. The ANC have considerably more political sense and pragmatism than this. It's totally batshit.
Absolutely stark raving mad. Even Gosplan was saner than these clowns.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:17 pm
by I like neeps
The Tories here explaining how their budget will help a first time buyer on 30k buying a terraced house in London. I mean, maybe they shouldn't actually communicate more.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:42 pm
by fishfoodie
Now this prospective home owner just needs to work out if they can:
(a) Get a Mortgage
(b) Afford this imaginary Mortgage
(c) Can expect to have a job in a year or twos time, when the Government is treatening Budget cuts, & JRM is cutting tens of thousands of Government jobs, & a large proportion of London workers are linked to Government funding.
_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:39 pm
Chris Philp saying triple lock pensions are being considered for the scrap heap to afford the tax cut.
HS2, triple lock pensions, they have £37bn-£45bn to make up for, this bonfire is piss poor so far.
The thick c**t on the Beeb this morning who was extolling the role of the OBR for vetting Krazee's Nov calcs whilst sidestepping that Truss and Krazee decided they could ignore the OBR when formulating this half baked nonsense?
That's the one, he also wouldn't confirm that Universal Credit would be inflation linked in that interview. It's going to be a massive bonfire to get to £37bn-£47bn if they're serious about not backing down.
He's the guy that got taken apart by Mick Lynch, just by Lynch repeating "you are a liar" every time he lied.
