The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Yr Alban]

As I said earlier: he will get a cap all right, probably off the bench, in order to tie him down. The rest he will have to earn on form.

[Slick]

Different coaches have different views on players and their ability and their fit with their game plans. It is not unusual for a player to not be rated in one team to move and then become a top player with another. A change of scene, different coach, injuries and how they are treated, more settled home life etc all play a big part in how a player develops and performs. Vellacot for example wasn't exactly first choice at Gloucester or Wasps yet has settled in well at Edinburgh and has become a key player for us. Why did Racing 92 allow Bofelli to move on after playing only 4 games for them? Both have resigned and seem very happy here and it shows. I am not that fussed about how Healy is rated by Munster/Ireland he is obviously a decent player and it's more important that both Blair and Townsend think there is something there that they can build on and utilise at Edinburgh and possibly Scotland.

That being the case you’d have to think that’s the end of the BK project. Why would you pay top dollar to bring on another SQ 10 if it wasn’t to have him playing regularly and pushing for a Scotland place. If they seriously still thought BK was an answer at 10 then what we have at the moment is more than sufficient.

Either way, it seems more fairy appalling treatment of him

[I like neeps]

Different coaches have different views on players and their ability and their fit with their game plans. It is not unusual for a player to not be rated in one team to move and then become a top player with another. A change of scene, different coach, injuries and how they are treated, more settled home life etc all play a big part in how a player develops and performs. Vellacot for example wasn't exactly first choice at Gloucester or Wasps yet has settled in well at Edinburgh and has become a key player for us. Why did Racing 92 allow Bofelli to move on after playing only 4 games for them? Both have resigned and seem very happy here and it shows. I am not that fussed about how Healy is rated by Munster/Ireland he is obviously a decent player and it's more important that both Blair and Townsend think there is something there that they can build on and utilise at Edinburgh and possibly Scotland.

That being the case you’d have to think that’s the end of the BK project. Why would you pay top dollar to bring on another SQ 10 if it wasn’t to have him playing regularly and pushing for a Scotland place. If they seriously still thought BK was an answer at 10 then what we have at the moment is more than sufficient.

Either way, it seems more fairy appalling treatment of him

I don't think he's being treated badly, Kinghorn is nowhere near a Scotland starting spot in the back 3. I wonder if even when Hogg retires he'll have stepped in considering how well Smith is playing for Glasgow. Moving to 10 really reinvigorated his career. I'd not be surprised if he won the shirt over Healy.

[westport]

Scotland fly-half Adam Hastings will miss the Six Nations with a shoulder injury.

The 26-year-old requires surgery after sustaining the damage during Gloucester's defeat at Leicester on Christmas Eve.

[dpedin]

Different coaches have different views on players and their ability and their fit with their game plans. It is not unusual for a player to not be rated in one team to move and then become a top player with another. A change of scene, different coach, injuries and how they are treated, more settled home life etc all play a big part in how a player develops and performs. Vellacot for example wasn't exactly first choice at Gloucester or Wasps yet has settled in well at Edinburgh and has become a key player for us. Why did Racing 92 allow Bofelli to move on after playing only 4 games for them? Both have resigned and seem very happy here and it shows. I am not that fussed about how Healy is rated by Munster/Ireland he is obviously a decent player and it's more important that both Blair and Townsend think there is something there that they can build on and utilise at Edinburgh and possibly Scotland.

That being the case you’d have to think that’s the end of the BK project. Why would you pay top dollar to bring on another SQ 10 if it wasn’t to have him playing regularly and pushing for a Scotland place. If they seriously still thought BK was an answer at 10 then what we have at the moment is more than sufficient.

Either way, it seems more fairy appalling treatment of him

I don't think he's being treated badly, Kinghorn is nowhere near a Scotland starting spot in the back 3. I wonder if even when Hogg retires he'll have stepped in considering how well Smith is playing for Glasgow. Moving to 10 really reinvigorated his career. I'd not be surprised if he won the shirt over Healy.

I'm not sure we can say that's the end of Kinghorns 10 career. We are still thin on the ground with 10s at international level and now that Hastings is out of 6Ns then if either Russell or Kinghorn get injured then we are really struggling given Thomson has hardly played recently and Jordan isn't SQ. Heally will add depth and competition for places and might actually help progress Kinghorn and Savala. If VdW is moving on which seems very likely then Embra will have Kinghorn, Heally and Savala for 10 and at least one will be away for half the season on international duty with RWC next year. We need 3 10s and I would suggest at least 2 need to be top class if we are to compete at higher level.

[Tichtheid]

That being the case you’d have to think that’s the end of the BK project. Why would you pay top dollar to bring on another SQ 10 if it wasn’t to have him playing regularly and pushing for a Scotland place. If they seriously still thought BK was an answer at 10 then what we have at the moment is more than sufficient.

Either way, it seems more fairy appalling treatment of him

I don't think he's being treated badly, Kinghorn is nowhere near a Scotland starting spot in the back 3. I wonder if even when Hogg retires he'll have stepped in considering how well Smith is playing for Glasgow. Moving to 10 really reinvigorated his career. I'd not be surprised if he won the shirt over Healy.

I'm not sure we can say that's the end of Kinghorns 10 career. We are still thin on the ground with 10s at international level and now that Hastings is out of 6Ns then if either Russell or Kinghorn get injured then we are really struggling given Thomson has hardly played recently and Jordan isn't SQ. Heally will add depth and competition for places and might actually help progress Kinghorn and Savala. If VdW is moving on which seems very likely then Embra will have Kinghorn, Heally and Savala for 10 and at least one will be away for half the season on international duty with RWC next year. We need 3 10s and I would suggest at least 2 need to be top class if we are to compete at higher level.

Yup, I agree with dpedin, Kinghorn is always going to be away with Scotland given his ability to play 10, 11, 14 and 15. Healy could well be away with Scotland too, which means Savala is the next cab off the rank for Edinburgh.

Given that Graham is touch and go for the 6N and Rowe is still out, Kinghorn may well start on the wing against England

[vball]

Hastings out of 6 Nations so could be capped pretty soon.

[Slick]

Different coaches have different views on players and their ability and their fit with their game plans. It is not unusual for a player to not be rated in one team to move and then become a top player with another. A change of scene, different coach, injuries and how they are treated, more settled home life etc all play a big part in how a player develops and performs. Vellacot for example wasn't exactly first choice at Gloucester or Wasps yet has settled in well at Edinburgh and has become a key player for us. Why did Racing 92 allow Bofelli to move on after playing only 4 games for them? Both have resigned and seem very happy here and it shows. I am not that fussed about how Healy is rated by Munster/Ireland he is obviously a decent player and it's more important that both Blair and Townsend think there is something there that they can build on and utilise at Edinburgh and possibly Scotland.

That being the case you’d have to think that’s the end of the BK project. Why would you pay top dollar to bring on another SQ 10 if it wasn’t to have him playing regularly and pushing for a Scotland place. If they seriously still thought BK was an answer at 10 then what we have at the moment is more than sufficient.

Either way, it seems more fairy appalling treatment of him

I don't think he's being treated badly, Kinghorn is nowhere near a Scotland starting spot in the back 3. I wonder if even when Hogg retires he'll have stepped in considering how well Smith is playing for Glasgow. Moving to 10 really reinvigorated his career. I'd not be surprised if he won the shirt over Healy.

At the start of the Autumn series we were being told that Blair and GT had complete faith in him then he gets put in the position of being goal kicker and misses that kick against Oz and gets absolutely hammered. Gets dropped the following week and then hardly gets on the pitch for the rest of the series. Gets back to his club and they have signed some Irishman on big bucks in his position. We don’t know what goes on behind the scenes but from the outside that looks like a really awful way to treat a young player you have put in that position

[Slick]

I don't think he's being treated badly, Kinghorn is nowhere near a Scotland starting spot in the back 3. I wonder if even when Hogg retires he'll have stepped in considering how well Smith is playing for Glasgow. Moving to 10 really reinvigorated his career. I'd not be surprised if he won the shirt over Healy.

I'm not sure we can say that's the end of Kinghorns 10 career. We are still thin on the ground with 10s at international level and now that Hastings is out of 6Ns then if either Russell or Kinghorn get injured then we are really struggling given Thomson has hardly played recently and Jordan isn't SQ. Heally will add depth and competition for places and might actually help progress Kinghorn and Savala. If VdW is moving on which seems very likely then Embra will have Kinghorn, Heally and Savala for 10 and at least one will be away for half the season on international duty with RWC next year. We need 3 10s and I would suggest at least 2 need to be top class if we are to compete at higher level.

Yup, I agree with dpedin, Kinghorn is always going to be away with Scotland given his ability to play 10, 11, 14 and 15. Healy could well be away with Scotland too, which means Savala is the next cab off the rank for Edinburgh.

Given that Graham is touch and go for the 6N and Rowe is still out, Kinghorn may well start on the wing against England

The problem is that if he is getting limited game time at 10 for Edinburgh now then where else does he get game time and so how does he then get picked in a Scotland squad. We are very lucky to have someone who can play so many many positions at that level but I do fear for the lad as being that utility player rarely works out well.

From a hard nosed pro perspective I can see why Edinburgh and the SRU have brought Healy in - Edinburgh have lacked a 10 that will move them forward for a few seasons and it is showing again now, IMO. Was it worth a punt on BK? Probably, but it doesn’t make this process any easier to watch.

[Tichtheid]

I'm not sure we can say that's the end of Kinghorns 10 career. We are still thin on the ground with 10s at international level and now that Hastings is out of 6Ns then if either Russell or Kinghorn get injured then we are really struggling given Thomson has hardly played recently and Jordan isn't SQ. Heally will add depth and competition for places and might actually help progress Kinghorn and Savala. If VdW is moving on which seems very likely then Embra will have Kinghorn, Heally and Savala for 10 and at least one will be away for half the season on international duty with RWC next year. We need 3 10s and I would suggest at least 2 need to be top class if we are to compete at higher level.

Yup, I agree with dpedin, Kinghorn is always going to be away with Scotland given his ability to play 10, 11, 14 and 15. Healy could well be away with Scotland too, which means Savala is the next cab off the rank for Edinburgh.

Given that Graham is touch and go for the 6N and Rowe is still out, Kinghorn may well start on the wing against England

The problem is that if he is getting limited game time at 10 for Edinburgh now then where else does he get game time and so how does he then get picked in a Scotland squad. We are very lucky to have someone who can play so many many positions at that level but I do fear for the lad as being that utility player rarely works out well.

From a hard nosed pro perspective I can see why Edinburgh and the SRU have brought Healy in - Edinburgh have lacked a 10 that will move them forward for a few seasons and it is showing again now, IMO. Was it worth a punt on BK? Probably, but it doesn’t make this process any easier to watch.

I agree with the point a poster made on the Glasgow forum, that we can attach too much importance on specialism. New Zealand and Australia don't seem to have that hang up and they do pretty well. Larkham, Beale, Giteau, Barretts B and J are the first names that spring to mind. Many French players have played 9 or 10 comfortably.

Take a hypothetical situation - it's this time next year and Healy has forced himself into the starting slot for Edinburgh and second choice for Scotland (not in any way a given, btw, he's third choice at Munster and around 7th for Ireland), right now Kinghorn would start on the wing for Edinburgh since Graham and Goosen are injured and he'd be in pole position to start on the wing in the upcoming 6N, as he is right now.

Whatever happens I want Kinghorn on the park for my team, a couple of years ago Toonie said he was the quickest player in the Scotland squad, Graham makes his own space with his footwork, Duhan, when he runs straight, can make his own space by running over the top of people, Kinghorn can exploit any gap with his pace - which brings me to a point Mike Blair made, Kinghorn sees a gap before most other players, with his pace and creativity, he has a good hard flat pass, he can play pretty much anywhere.

I'm just shooting the breeze here, but I wonder if he might move out to 12 sometimes if Healy starts at 10 - this is not my area of expertise, but can anyone tell me why that would be impossible?
If he's as quick as Toonie claims, is there any reason he can't play 13? He certainly has the pace to play international wing, and I understand that defending at 13 is the toughest of gigs on a rugby field, but is it impossible?

A backline of Vellacott, Healy, van der Merwe, Kinghorn, Bennett, Graham, Boff might score a try or two.

Whatever the case, with rotation and injuries Kinghorn will be a mainstay in the Edinburgh and Scotland lineups.

There was talk of Mossy being treated badly because he was moved all over the shop.
He won 109 international caps, that's not exactly shoddy.

[dpedin]

Yup, I agree with dpedin, Kinghorn is always going to be away with Scotland given his ability to play 10, 11, 14 and 15. Healy could well be away with Scotland too, which means Savala is the next cab off the rank for Edinburgh.

Given that Graham is touch and go for the 6N and Rowe is still out, Kinghorn may well start on the wing against England

The problem is that if he is getting limited game time at 10 for Edinburgh now then where else does he get game time and so how does he then get picked in a Scotland squad. We are very lucky to have someone who can play so many many positions at that level but I do fear for the lad as being that utility player rarely works out well.

From a hard nosed pro perspective I can see why Edinburgh and the SRU have brought Healy in - Edinburgh have lacked a 10 that will move them forward for a few seasons and it is showing again now, IMO. Was it worth a punt on BK? Probably, but it doesn’t make this process any easier to watch.

I agree with the point a poster made on the Glasgow forum, that we can attach too much importance on specialism. New Zealand and Australia don't seem to have that hang up and they do pretty well. Larkham, Beale, Giteau, Barretts B and J are the first names that spring to mind. Many French players have played 9 or 10 comfortably.

Take a hypothetical situation - it's this time next year and Healy has forced himself into the starting slot for Edinburgh and second choice for Scotland (not in any way a given, btw, he's third choice at Munster and around 7th for Ireland), right now Kinghorn would start on the wing for Edinburgh since Graham and Goosen are injured and he'd be in pole position to start on the wing in the upcoming 6N, as he is right now.

Whatever happens I want Kinghorn on the park for my team, a couple of years ago Toonie said he was the quickest player in the Scotland squad, Graham makes his own space with his footwork, Duhan, when he runs straight, can make his own space by running over the top of people, Kinghorn can exploit any gap with his pace - which brings me to a point Mike Blair made, Kinghorn sees a gap before most other players, with his pace and creativity, he has a good hard flat pass, he can play pretty much anywhere.

I'm just shooting the breeze here, but I wonder if he might move out to 12 sometimes if Healy starts at 10 - this is not my area of expertise, but can anyone tell me why that would be impossible?
If he's as quick as Toonie claims, is there any reason he can't play 13? He certainly has the pace to play international wing, and I understand that defending at 13 is the toughest of gigs on a rugby field, but is it impossible?

A backline of Vellacott, Healy, van der Merwe, Kinghorn, Bennett, Graham, Boff might score a try or two.

Whatever the case, with rotation and injuries Kinghorn will be a mainstay in the Edinburgh and Scotland lineups.

There was talk of Mossy being treated badly because he was moved all over the shop.
He won 109 international caps, that's not exactly shoddy.

Agree with this. I spent many many years moaning about the lack of a 10 at Embra full stop. Those we had were dodgy at best and we tried all sorts of guys Te Rure, Leonard, Francis, etc who were all pretty poor in the position. Now we might have 3 quality 10s and folk are saying this is a problem! Kinghorn we know can play at FB and wing just as easily than at 10. Heally looks an ideal fit for FB if required to play there as well as 10. Savala to me is the only one who is an out and out 10. I don't have a problem with having depth in the squad and the ability to pull in a top 10 when we have one with Scotland and another nursing an injury. Of course the squad will have to be managed carefully but that's always been the case ie most squads have 4 hookers, 4 props for both sides of the scrum, etc. We play Skinner and Young at flanker or 2nd row depending on what's required, Bofelli, Immelman, Hoyland play across the back 3 positions.

As I keep saying it is a RWC year and all sorts of calls will be made on players so I think it is excellent planning from Embra/SRU to bring in Heally especially if VdW is off. How many would be screaming blue murder in key game next season if Kinghorn was unavailable as a result international duties/rest period and Savala was injured in first 5 mins of game and we had let VdW leave in the summer?

[Biffer]

Kinghorn’s defence is far too weak to play in the centres. You can hide a 10, you can’t hide 12 or 13 in the same way. Coming into the line outside the 10 or between 12 and 13 from full back is a better option for a player like him as he’s arriving at pace and it opens more opportunities.

[Tichtheid]

A point was made elsewhere, Sexton didn't establish himself in the Leinster team until 2009 when he was 23/24. Kinghorn has been playing as a ten since September '21 - that's what, 16 months? At 25 years old (nearly 26) I think there is more to come from him.

The Munster supporter who pointed that out regarding Sexton is of the opinion that Healy is an out and out 10, "you go all in with him at fly half" was what he said, so having a choice of Kinghorn, Healy and Savala is good depth, with the choice of Kinghorn covering elsewhere too.

[Tichtheid]

Kinghorn’s defence is far too weak to play in the centres. You can hide a 10, you can’t hide 12 or 13 in the same way. Coming into the line outside the 10 or between 12 and 13 from full back is a better option for a player like him as he’s arriving at pace and it opens more opportunities.

I don't agree with that regarding his defence, maybe at 13 where reading seems to be everything because you don't have the touchline as an extra defender like you do on the wing and you have so much space to cover, Kinghorn isn't looking at the game in the same way that perhaps Chris Harris is, but I don't see the same problem at 12

Few tackle like Wilkinson did, but Kinghorn takes his man far more often than not, and even Wilkinson got knocked on his arse from time to time.

I don't recall Kinghorn being shoved out to the wing in defence like you see some fly halves, in fact both Toonie and Blair have talked up Kinghorn's defensive abilities

[Biffer]

Kinghorn’s defence is far too weak to play in the centres. You can hide a 10, you can’t hide 12 or 13 in the same way. Coming into the line outside the 10 or between 12 and 13 from full back is a better option for a player like him as he’s arriving at pace and it opens more opportunities.

I don't agree with that regarding his defence, maybe at 13 where reading seems to be everything because you don't have the touchline as an extra defender like you do on the wing and you have so much space to cover, Kinghorn isn't looking at the game in the same way that perhaps Chris Harris is, but I don't see the same problem at 12

Few tackle like Wilkinson did, but Kinghorn takes his man far more often than not, and even Wilkinson got knocked on his arse from time to time

We’re not going to agree on this, I think his defence is poor. He was dreadful in defence against Glasgow last week.

[Tichtheid]

Kinghorn’s defence is far too weak to play in the centres. You can hide a 10, you can’t hide 12 or 13 in the same way. Coming into the line outside the 10 or between 12 and 13 from full back is a better option for a player like him as he’s arriving at pace and it opens more opportunities.

I don't agree with that regarding his defence, maybe at 13 where reading seems to be everything because you don't have the touchline as an extra defender like you do on the wing and you have so much space to cover, Kinghorn isn't looking at the game in the same way that perhaps Chris Harris is, but I don't see the same problem at 12

Few tackle like Wilkinson did, but Kinghorn takes his man far more often than not, and even Wilkinson got knocked on his arse from time to time

We’re not going to agree on this, I think his defence is poor. He was dreadful in defence against Glasgow last week.

I haven't seen that game, wasn't he chucking his guts up on the pitch?

Another point about having someone of his pace playing 13, like Huw Jones in fact, is that because of the wide open spaces that occur between 13 and the wings is that having someone like him, and Bennett for that matter, is a potent attacking weapon.

I'm not going to push the 13 thing, I don't think Kinghorn reads the game defensively, it's not his strength by a long chalk, but I think his attacking abilities sway the balance

[I like neeps]

The problem is that if he is getting limited game time at 10 for Edinburgh now then where else does he get game time and so how does he then get picked in a Scotland squad. We are very lucky to have someone who can play so many many positions at that level but I do fear for the lad as being that utility player rarely works out well.

From a hard nosed pro perspective I can see why Edinburgh and the SRU have brought Healy in - Edinburgh have lacked a 10 that will move them forward for a few seasons and it is showing again now, IMO. Was it worth a punt on BK? Probably, but it doesn’t make this process any easier to watch.

I agree with the point a poster made on the Glasgow forum, that we can attach too much importance on specialism. New Zealand and Australia don't seem to have that hang up and they do pretty well. Larkham, Beale, Giteau, Barretts B and J are the first names that spring to mind. Many French players have played 9 or 10 comfortably.

Take a hypothetical situation - it's this time next year and Healy has forced himself into the starting slot for Edinburgh and second choice for Scotland (not in any way a given, btw, he's third choice at Munster and around 7th for Ireland), right now Kinghorn would start on the wing for Edinburgh since Graham and Goosen are injured and he'd be in pole position to start on the wing in the upcoming 6N, as he is right now.

Whatever happens I want Kinghorn on the park for my team, a couple of years ago Toonie said he was the quickest player in the Scotland squad, Graham makes his own space with his footwork, Duhan, when he runs straight, can make his own space by running over the top of people, Kinghorn can exploit any gap with his pace - which brings me to a point Mike Blair made, Kinghorn sees a gap before most other players, with his pace and creativity, he has a good hard flat pass, he can play pretty much anywhere.

I'm just shooting the breeze here, but I wonder if he might move out to 12 sometimes if Healy starts at 10 - this is not my area of expertise, but can anyone tell me why that would be impossible?
If he's as quick as Toonie claims, is there any reason he can't play 13? He certainly has the pace to play international wing, and I understand that defending at 13 is the toughest of gigs on a rugby field, but is it impossible?

A backline of Vellacott, Healy, van der Merwe, Kinghorn, Bennett, Graham, Boff might score a try or two.

Whatever the case, with rotation and injuries Kinghorn will be a mainstay in the Edinburgh and Scotland lineups.

There was talk of Mossy being treated badly because he was moved all over the shop.
He won 109 international caps, that's not exactly shoddy.

Agree with this. I spent many many years moaning about the lack of a 10 at Embra full stop. Those we had were dodgy at best and we tried all sorts of guys Te Rure, Leonard, Francis, etc who were all pretty poor in the position. Now we might have 3 quality 10s and folk are saying this is a problem! Kinghorn we know can play at FB and wing just as easily than at 10. Heally looks an ideal fit for FB if required to play there as well as 10. Savala to me is the only one who is an out and out 10. I don't have a problem with having depth in the squad and the ability to pull in a top 10 when we have one with Scotland and another nursing an injury. Of course the squad will have to be managed carefully but that's always been the case ie most squads have 4 hookers, 4 props for both sides of the scrum, etc. We play Skinner and Young at flanker or 2nd row depending on what's required, Bofelli, Immelman, Hoyland play across the back 3 positions.

As I keep saying it is a RWC year and all sorts of calls will be made on players so I think it is excellent planning from Embra/SRU to bring in Heally especially if VdW is off. How many would be screaming blue murder in key game next season if Kinghorn was unavailable as a result international duties/rest period and Savala was injured in first 5 mins of game and we had let VdW leave in the summer?

I think that either vdw wouldn't leave if Healy wasn't signed or if he's so desperate to play Currie cup or whatever Edinburgh would find a depth 10 to cover.

[I like neeps]

I don't agree with that regarding his defence, maybe at 13 where reading seems to be everything because you don't have the touchline as an extra defender like you do on the wing and you have so much space to cover, Kinghorn isn't looking at the game in the same way that perhaps Chris Harris is, but I don't see the same problem at 12

Few tackle like Wilkinson did, but Kinghorn takes his man far more often than not, and even Wilkinson got knocked on his arse from time to time

We’re not going to agree on this, I think his defence is poor. He was dreadful in defence against Glasgow last week.

I haven't seen that game, wasn't he chucking his guts up on the pitch?

Another point about having someone of his pace playing 13, like Huw Jones in fact, is that because of the wide open spaces that occur between 13 and the wings is that having someone like him, and Bennett for that matter, is a potent attacking weapon.

I'm not going to push the 13 thing, I don't think Kinghorn reads the game defensively, it's not his strength by a long chalk, but I think his attacking abilities sway the balance

Bennett is a really good defender these days. Huw Jones doesn't start at 13 in bigger games even for Glasgow never mind Scotland because he's not.

[Tichtheid]

Bennett is a really good defender these days. Huw Jones doesn't start at 13 in bigger games even for Glasgow never mind Scotland because he's not.

Jones doesn't start any games for Glasgow these days because he's injured, he's played twice this season

[I like neeps]

Bennett is a really good defender these days. Huw Jones doesn't start at 13 in bigger games even for Glasgow never mind Scotland because he's not.

Jones doesn't start any games for Glasgow these days because he's injured, he's played twice this season

He's been fit for weeks (played Vs Bath first week of December) and doesn't start the bigger games such as Edinburgh.

Quins pretty quickly moved him from centre, Glasgow did the last time he was here. Not sure how much more evidence you want teams don't risk Jones at 13 all that much because he isn't a good defender.

[Tichtheid]

.
double post

[Tichtheid]

[Tichtheid]

Bennett is a really good defender these days. Huw Jones doesn't start at 13 in bigger games even for Glasgow never mind Scotland because he's not.

Jones doesn't start any games for Glasgow these days because he's injured, he's played twice this season

He's been fit for weeks (played Vs Bath first week of December) and doesn't start the bigger games such as Edinburgh.

Quins pretty quickly moved him from centre, Glasgow did the last time he was here. Not sure how much more evidence you want teams don't risk Jones at 13 all that much because he isn't a good defender.

He's starting at 12 tomorrow v Stormers.

I didn't say anything about Jones' defence. Toonie dropped him because of it, as he did Matt Scott and Mark Bennett before him

[Dogbert]

Jones doesn't start any games for Glasgow these days because he's injured, he's played twice this season

He's been fit for weeks (played Vs Bath first week of December) and doesn't start the bigger games such as Edinburgh.

Quins pretty quickly moved him from centre, Glasgow did the last time he was here. Not sure how much more evidence you want teams don't risk Jones at 13 all that much because he isn't a good defender.

He's starting at 12 tomorrow v Stormers.

I didn't say anything about Jones' defence. Toonie dropped him because of it, as he did Matt Scott and Mark Bennett before him

Edinburgh a bigger game - nah not really

Stomers - Last years champions - much bigger game .

Anyway - probably the strongest team that Glasgow can put out considering all the injuries

Shame Walker is broken , good to see Gray the Elder is getting a much deserved break

Glasgow Warriors

15 Ollie Smith (23)

14 Sebastian Cancelliere (19)
13 Sione Tuipulotu (29)
12 Huw Jones (51)
11 Kyle Steyn (Captain) (57)

10 Tom Jordan (11)
9 George Horne (91)

1 Jamie Bhatti (78)
2 George Turner (86)
3 Lucio Sordoni (6)
4 Lewis Bean (26)
5 JP du Preez (11)
6 Matt Fagerson (86)
7 Sione Vailanu (7)
8 Jack Dempsey (29)

Substitutes

16 Fraser Brown (132)
17 Nathan McBeth (11)
18 Simon Berghan (20)
19 Alex Samuel (2)
20 Euan Ferrie (4)
21 Cameron Neild (3)
22 Ali Price (119)
23 Domingo Miotti (14)

Unavailable for selection: Gregor Brown (foot), Scott Cummings (foot), Rory Darge (ankle), Allan Dell (calf), Zander Fagerson (hamstring), Oli Kebble (shoulder), Jack Mann (head), Enrique Pieretto (chest), Ross Thompson (ankle), Murphy Walker (neck), Ryan Wilson (knee)

[westport]

With the association with Quins, Scott Steele makes his London Scottish debut from the bench as he makes his return from long term injury.

[Camroc2]

A point was made elsewhere, Sexton didn't establish himself in the Leinster team until 2009 when he was 23/24. Kinghorn has been playing as a ten since September '21 - that's what, 16 months? At 25 years old (nearly 26) I think there is more to come from him.

The Munster supporter who pointed that out regarding Sexton is of the opinion that Healy is an out and out 10, "you go all in with him at fly half" was what he said, so having a choice of Kinghorn, Healy and Savala is good depth, with the choice of Kinghorn covering elsewhere too.

Regarding Sexton, he was Leinster no 2 from the 2007/2008 season, and the player keeping him from being no 1 was Filipe Contepomi. Beware Munstermen talking about Leinster.

I'll butt out again now.

[mos_eisely_]

The Kinghorn move to the back three has started ;-)

[Tichtheid]

A point was made elsewhere, Sexton didn't establish himself in the Leinster team until 2009 when he was 23/24. Kinghorn has been playing as a ten since September '21 - that's what, 16 months? At 25 years old (nearly 26) I think there is more to come from him.

The Munster supporter who pointed that out regarding Sexton is of the opinion that Healy is an out and out 10, "you go all in with him at fly half" was what he said, so having a choice of Kinghorn, Healy and Savala is good depth, with the choice of Kinghorn covering elsewhere too.

Regarding Sexton, he was Leinster no 2 from the 2007/2008 season, and the player keeping him from being no 1 was Filipe Contepomi. Beware Munstermen talking about Leinster.

I'll butt out again now.

I don't think it was intended as any kind of slight on Sexton, it was just the case that he didn't break through to the very top as a very young kid - looking at the 6N Squads, Sexton was selected uncapped for '08 and 09 and by the time 2010 came around, when he was 24, he had won two. Rog would still have been first choice at that point though, I would have thought.

Very few fly halves take to the park fully formed for the top level whilst still young- I seem to recall that Carter played at 12 for his first few caps

Russell was 21 or 22 when he was first capped, but we weren't exactly flush with talent at the time.

[I like neeps]

He's been fit for weeks (played Vs Bath first week of December) and doesn't start the bigger games such as Edinburgh.

Quins pretty quickly moved him from centre, Glasgow did the last time he was here. Not sure how much more evidence you want teams don't risk Jones at 13 all that much because he isn't a good defender.

He's starting at 12 tomorrow v Stormers.

I didn't say anything about Jones' defence. Toonie dropped him because of it, as he did Matt Scott and Mark Bennett before him

Edinburgh a bigger game - nah not really

Stomers - Last years champions - much bigger game .

Anyway - probably the strongest team that Glasgow can put out considering all the injuries

Shame Walker is broken , good to see Gray the Elder is getting a much deserved break

Glasgow Warriors

15 Ollie Smith (23)

14 Sebastian Cancelliere (19)
13 Sione Tuipulotu (29)
12 Huw Jones (51)
11 Kyle Steyn (Captain) (57)

10 Tom Jordan (11)
9 George Horne (91)

1 Jamie Bhatti (78)
2 George Turner (86)
3 Lucio Sordoni (6)
4 Lewis Bean (26)
5 JP du Preez (11)
6 Matt Fagerson (86)
7 Sione Vailanu (7)
8 Jack Dempsey (29)

Substitutes

16 Fraser Brown (132)
17 Nathan McBeth (11)
18 Simon Berghan (20)
19 Alex Samuel (2)
20 Euan Ferrie (4)
21 Cameron Neild (3)
22 Ali Price (119)
23 Domingo Miotti (14)

Unavailable for selection: Gregor Brown (foot), Scott Cummings (foot), Rory Darge (ankle), Allan Dell (calf), Zander Fagerson (hamstring), Oli Kebble (shoulder), Jack Mann (head), Enrique Pieretto (chest), Ross Thompson (ankle), Murphy Walker (neck), Ryan Wilson (knee)

The 1872 is the biggest game of the year for the pro clubs like it or not.

[Dogbert]

He's starting at 12 tomorrow v Stormers.

I didn't say anything about Jones' defence. Toonie dropped him because of it, as he did Matt Scott and Mark Bennett before him

Edinburgh a bigger game - nah not really

Stomers - Last years champions - much bigger game .

Anyway - probably the strongest team that Glasgow can put out considering all the injuries

Shame Walker is broken , good to see Gray the Elder is getting a much deserved break

Glasgow Warriors

15 Ollie Smith (23)

14 Sebastian Cancelliere (19)
13 Sione Tuipulotu (29)
12 Huw Jones (51)
11 Kyle Steyn (Captain) (57)

10 Tom Jordan (11)
9 George Horne (91)

1 Jamie Bhatti (78)
2 George Turner (86)
3 Lucio Sordoni (6)
4 Lewis Bean (26)
5 JP du Preez (11)
6 Matt Fagerson (86)
7 Sione Vailanu (7)
8 Jack Dempsey (29)

Substitutes

16 Fraser Brown (132)
17 Nathan McBeth (11)
18 Simon Berghan (20)
19 Alex Samuel (2)
20 Euan Ferrie (4)
21 Cameron Neild (3)
22 Ali Price (119)
23 Domingo Miotti (14)

Unavailable for selection: Gregor Brown (foot), Scott Cummings (foot), Rory Darge (ankle), Allan Dell (calf), Zander Fagerson (hamstring), Oli Kebble (shoulder), Jack Mann (head), Enrique Pieretto (chest), Ross Thompson (ankle), Murphy Walker (neck), Ryan Wilson (knee)

The 1872 is the biggest game of the year for the pro clubs like it or not.

Really - in 2019 was the biggest game for Glasgow not the Pro 14 final at Celtic Park, in 2015 was the biggest game for Glasgow not the Pro 12 final, in 2014 not the biggest game for Glasgoe not the Pro 12 final

Beating an underperforming middle table Edinburgh is sort of nice , but Glasgow Supporters expect a bit more these days.

Last Season when Glasgow came one place lower in the league , they sacked there coach, When Edinburgh finished one place above , their coach was being touted on this forum as the next Scottish coach.

[Tichtheid]

The 1872 is the biggest game of the year for the pro clubs like it or not.

Of course it is, league points at stake, the biggest crowd the teams will play in front of bar a knock out game in Ireland, Scotland places up for grabs and you're playing against a direct rival.

The players themselves all talk it up, it's the oldest fixture of its kind in the sport.

[Dogbert]

It may be for Edinburgh Supporters - For Glasgow - not so much

[Tichtheid]

It may be for Edinburgh Supporters - For Glasgow - not so much

For the players it is, it is also for the majority of supporters who travel through to Edinburgh to watch - why bother travelling otherwise?

I know there are some on the Glasgow forum who think they are above such concerns as a mere derby match, but the big fuss they make of it being so insignificant a fixture makes me think they doth protest too much.

[Dogbert]

Oh Don't get me wrong - its always good to beat the noisy East Coast Neighbours - and the points for the league are always important.

But being the most important game in the calender , well that all depends on the season

For the years that Glasgow have been in Finals - then the finals take precedence , even some of the European Games would take precedence

Look at the 2016-17 European Champions Cup Quarter Final against Saracens where over 6000 Glasgow fans made the journey Allianz Park, or even the Glasgow / Tiger games

Sure you get lots of Supporters travel to MurrayField than to Galway , or Llanelli - Murrayfield is a damn site easier to get to ( and the Xmas / New Year timings , also make it easier)

To me , and to a lot of other Glasgow Season ticket holders I speak to, the upcoming Stomers game is more important - its a yard stick to measure Glasgows improvement. To be the best you need to beat the Stormers / Leinsters of the world . Thats where we find out where you are .
If I was a coach picking a Scottish team , if a player has an outstanding performance against Leinster at RDS , and has a similar performance agianst Edinburgh at Murrayfield - Which provides greater insight ?

[Tichtheid]

I've been reading the Glasgow forum for about ten years and posting for about 8 - as a fan of Glasgow btw - and every year it's the same people pretending that the game means no more than any other game and less than some others, they go on and on about it.
If it meant so little there wouldn't have been the fuss over the venue in recent years

To be fair I don't think there has been much of that this season.

Of course finals and play offs are more important than any league game, I would bet most Rangers fans would take the league title over beating Celtic and vice versa, and that is about as tribal as it gets in any sport

[Dogbert]

I've been reading the Glasgow forum for about ten years and posting for about 8 - as a fan of Glasgow btw - and every year it's the same people pretending that the game means no more than any other game and less than some others, they go on and on about it.
If it meant so little there wouldn't have been the fuss over the venue in recent years

To be fair I don't think there has been much of that this season.

Of course finals and play offs are more important than any league game, I would bet most Rangers fans would take the league title over beating Celtic and vice versa, and that is about as tribal as it gets in any sport

I've always suspected that the Glasgow Forum consists mainly of the East Stand Massive ....

Us Northstanders are much more reasonable people

[Yr Alban]

I’ve wondered whether Kinghorn might eventually end up playing 13. Comments about his defence notwithstanding.

Regarding Healy, Munster don’t seem to think it’s an issue having him as their #3 SO, and they would have preferred to keep him. So why should Edinburgh worry about having 3?

[I like neeps]

Oh Don't get me wrong - its always good to beat the noisy East Coast Neighbours - and the points for the league are always important.

But being the most important game in the calender , well that all depends on the season

For the years that Glasgow have been in Finals - then the finals take precedence , even some of the European Games would take precedence

Look at the 2016-17 European Champions Cup Quarter Final against Saracens where over 6000 Glasgow fans made the journey Allianz Park, or even the Glasgow / Tiger games

Sure you get lots of Supporters travel to MurrayField than to Galway , or Llanelli - Murrayfield is a damn site easier to get to ( and the Xmas / New Year timings , also make it easier)

To me , and to a lot of other Glasgow Season ticket holders I speak to, the upcoming Stomers game is more important - its a yard stick to measure Glasgows improvement. To be the best you need to beat the Stormers / Leinsters of the world . Thats where we find out where you are .
If I was a coach picking a Scottish team , if a player has an outstanding performance against Leinster at RDS , and has a similar performance agianst Edinburgh at Murrayfield - Which provides greater insight ?

The Edinburgh games, hence why every Scotland coach and player talks it up as a selection battle. It's no longer an exact science but you're playing against your competition for the shirt in a lot of cases. If you play better than them it means a lot from a Scotland point of view.

Good performances against Leinster, Munster etc are obviously important but they need to be backed up. Matt Fagerson outplaying both Crosbie and Ritchie (twice) is what will stick in Toonie's mind.

[Tichtheid]

Let's see how Healy gets on in terrible weather tonight.

Hollie Davidson on the whistle

[Yr Alban]

I support both of the pro teams, but as an Edinburgh boy I think it’s a bit rich for Glasgow to behave as if they have their sights on loftier ambitions than the derby games. Yes, you’ve played a few finals and even won one of them, which I was delighted about. But right now you’re pretty much exactly where Edinburgh are - mid table.