NPR

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:04 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:08 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:26 pm


I don't want to repeat the same little analogy that I used before, but at some point, people are going to have to realise that they are being pitted against each other for the benefit of those who are, in effect, thieving from them. From them and from the people they are being told is their enemy, ie other normal working people.

Indeed. Divide and conquer, twas ever thus.
Out of interest I thought that all the final salary public pensions had now changed to average career salary.
In the NHS there a still a very small amount of staff that can retire at 55 on a final salary pension.
This perk has been phased out but I know in the next couple of years a lot of senior staff who are retiring.

Everyone who has joined in the last 10-15 years is on average salary, yes.

Retiring at 55 was restricted to a very, very small group of staff working in specific roles within mental health under the old pension scheme and/or clinical staff who joined scheme prior to 1995. The old scheme changed to average salary a few years ago with the last few on the FS and retiral age of 60 all but gone now however the Gov cocked up the implementation and were found to have contravened age discrimination regs and had to do a rework. As of this year everyone is now in new scheme albeit with previous pensions protected - this has triggered many nurses et al retiring earlier than planned. Most of the senior guys retiring now are doing so because of having reached the lifetime allowance and being clobbered by HMRC. Many are reducing hours to remain within the limits. End result is loss of clinical capacity and therefore reduced throughout of patients ending and longer waiting times.

We didnt know



only kidding

Another quite mysterious IEA man.

Singham is from London and was involved in Thatcherite privatisations in the late 1980s/early 1990s. He then disappears to the US becomes a dual national referring to himself as American and ends up deeply imbedded with the American right (lobbying/think tanks/Republican Party). This is where he headed up a project for Babson Global (connected to the Kochs), to create Special Economic Zones (SEZs) in third world nations. These are areas of low-transparency, low-regulation, low-tax, that are supposed to broadly get rid of democracy/human rights based law system/welfare to achieve high economic growth. It's the Chinese model but not really, because it ignores all the other factors in China's reform (which were more significant), only focusing on the SEZs element (which was a way for the CCP to obtain economic growth, without liberalising China more broadly). I'm not sure he really understands the SEZ concept. As far as I can tell all these projects failed or are failing, the one in Honduras has been written about widely.

He then pops up in the Uk again for Brexit, and finds a place in Tufton Street thinktanks, and the IEA. He ends up very closely associated with the ERG, because he told them what they wanted to hear. I remember reading an IEA paper by him in 2018 on his post-Brexit plan, basically it would all be easy and FTAs would hugely boost growth, there was so much wrong with it I remember not even knowing where to start as I read it. There's a good longform bio on that part of his career here. He was known to all the Brexit supporting Tory MPs and became an advisor to Truss when she was International Trade Secretary. Whitehall civil servants regarded him as a "total clown" and “like any of these Brexiteers, he comes up with these ideas that aren’t workable. He’s a good blue-sky thinker, but on the practicalities and details he gets blown apart.”.

Fast forward to today and Truss is crashing ahead with an unlimited amount of "investment zones", which it's unlikely don't have a straight line connection to Singham. He was quite influential among Brexiters immediately after the referendum (and before reality hit and it got difficult), and this was his idea even before Brexit and his return to the UK.

He's now delighting in the "howls of anguish from those who object to reform", the language of a revolutionary madman.

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:32 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:16 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:50 pm I'm retired and I now spend far more money than I did whilst working - largely because I saved while working, whereas I now don't need to. Us pensioners tend to spend what money we get because you can't take it with you. We've also got more time to fill and that costs money !!

There seems to be two categories.

The first one the IEA guy and some Tory MPs target, that the triple lock should end to reduce government spending. It's a lot like universal credit though, as you say the money gets put back into the real economy, so reducing this is making people poorer and taking money out of the economy. The poorer the pensioner is the more they're spending, someone relying on a state pension isn't wealthy. The recipient of the tax cut, probably isn't spending as much. And there's the societal cost of making people poorer too, it may not be the tax cut it seems.

The second is about accumulated lifetime wealth (which you seem to be in!). Which for most people is a private pension and their house. Some particularly on the left want to tax this asset wealth, it's something Labour under Starmer are avoiding talking about. Problem there is, why then spend your life saving at all if it's just going to be taken away? This is particularly an issue when people have a lot of wealth locked up in their house on paper, but are actually living poorly (more category one than this category). It's surely morally wrong to punish someone forgoing things when they were younger so they could live more as they wish when they are old.

Growth from forcing pensioners to either not spend (category one) or spend everything earlier (category two), looks illusionary. It seems more like the early stages of creating a new bogeyman to blame for everything, there's the usual bogeyman contradiction too a "the immigrants are taking all the benefits and taking all the jobs" gambit.

It's a fact the young in the UK have been fucked, can't see how fucking the old will change that. It'll really just mean those young people are eventually fucked twice.

This

However, even better off pensioners will tend to spend more if their pension increases. Most of us don't like dipping into savings for everyday living or even hols. We still tend to base our everyday standard of living on our everyday income - but dip into savings for capital spends.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:12 am It's also self protecting. The more people say "you are morons" the more they think they are right, because they define themselves against the orthodoxy, being the outsider is their validation. This is incidentally exactly how conspiracy theories work.

As I was saying, from the Times:


"“Senior Treasury officials made clear there was a big risk,” a senior Tory said. “The cabinet secretary [Simon Case] made it clear that there was a huge risk. You can do what you said in the leadership election — reverse the national insurance rise and stop the corporation tax rise — but once you get into further tax cuts you have to have someone mark your homework.”

Far from deterred, Truss seems to have fed off the prospect of negative fallout, using it as evidence that the establishment would always fight real economic radicalism. “She was told, ‘Don’t do this, no one will like it.’ And her attitude was basically, ‘I don’t care’.” Downing Street sources do not confirm this form of words but agree Truss’s attitude was that the economy would have to weather an initial period of turbulence

Upon learning what was intended, a very senior civil servant declared privately: “She is completely mad.” A senior figure at the Treasury called the decision to scrap the top rate of tax in a cost-of-living crisis “f***ing insane,” the day before the budget. Another said the unfunded tax cuts were “what Venezuela does”."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trus ... -ntwxk3tbd

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:24 pm
Retiring at 55 was restricted to a very, very small group of staff working in specific roles within mental health under the old pension scheme and/or clinical staff who joined scheme prior to 1995. The old scheme changed to average salary a few years ago with the last few on the FS and retiral age of 60 all but gone now however the Gov cocked up the implementation and were found to have contravened age discrimination regs and had to do a rework. As of this year everyone is now in new scheme albeit with previous pensions protected - this has triggered many nurses et al retiring earlier than planned. Most of the senior guys retiring now are doing so because of having reached the lifetime allowance and being clobbered by HMRC. Many are reducing hours to remain within the limits. End result is loss of clinical capacity and therefore reduced throughout of patients ending and longer waiting times.

All of this, esp the last line.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:08 pm

Another quite mysterious IEA man.

Singham is from London and was involved in Thatcherite privatisations in the late 1980s/early 1990s. He then disappears to the US becomes a dual national referring to himself as American and ends up deeply imbedded with the American right (lobbying/think tanks/Republican Party). This is where he headed up a project for Babson Global (connected to the Kochs), to create Special Economic Zones (SEZs) in third world nations. These are areas of low-transparency, low-regulation, low-tax, that are supposed to broadly get rid of democracy/human rights based law system/welfare to achieve high economic growth. It's the Chinese model but not really, because it ignores all the other factors in China's reform (which were more significant), only focusing on the SEZs element (which was a way for the CCP to obtain economic growth, without liberalising China more broadly). I'm not sure he really understands the SEZ concept. As far as I can tell all these projects failed or are failing, the one in Honduras has been written about widely.

He then pops up in the Uk again for Brexit, and finds a place in Tufton Street thinktanks, and the IEA. He ends up very closely associated with the ERG, because he told them what they wanted to hear. I remember reading an IEA paper by him in 2018 on his post-Brexit plan, basically it would all be easy and FTAs would hugely boost growth, there was so much wrong with it I remember not even knowing where to start as I read it. There's a good longform bio on that part of his career here. He was known to all the Brexit supporting Tory MPs and became an advisor to Truss when she was International Trade Secretary. Whitehall civil servants regarded him as a "total clown" and “like any of these Brexiteers, he comes up with these ideas that aren’t workable. He’s a good blue-sky thinker, but on the practicalities and details he gets blown apart.”.

Fast forward to today and Truss is crashing ahead with an unlimited amount of "investment zones", which it's unlikely don't have a straight line connection to Singham. He was quite influential among Brexiters immediately after the referendum (and before reality hit and it got difficult), and this was his idea even before Brexit and his return to the UK.

He's now delighting in the "howls of anguish from those who object to reform", the language of a revolutionary madman.

Never heard of this guy. Good shout to highlight him.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:11 am Or having thresholds for the state pension of course to bring them in line with social security e.g. benefits.

And the issue is pensions and the care you need to pay for because as said on average people are living far longer and need far higher pension and healthcare spending than was ever envisaged when the state pensions, NHS etc was created. It's only going to get more expensive needing higher tax. It does need a solution sooner rather than later.

Lots of moving parts in here, most of the important ones Govts have behind the curve on or ignored.

1) The State Pension is paid for by (almost) everyone via NI. If it's not going to be a universal entitlement, then stop taking the NI. In fact, scrap NI altogether and simply call it Income Tax....... but that won't happen because then Govt. would have to cease lying in claiming the UK has low Income Tax rates whereas in reality, the starting rate is in excess of 45% for everyone who earns. Tax Freedom Day is going to end up at Halloween at this rate.

2) People aren't living far longer any more. The mortality curve has peaked and is in reverse. Mainly because of lard arses removing themselves from the population but not before they've drained £ billions from the NHS. And that's the real killer (ahem): not the extension** in life expectancy but the explosion in ill health during the extension.

3)** Because after Barber v GRE, the UK Govt took the chance to jump women's retirement age to 65 too and since then, has been cranking it up for all. The trend is probably that people are working longer as a proportion of life expectancy (war death adjusted) than since a century ago. Worse, Govt peddle the lies that "it's okay to retire later because you are living longer". Tell you what, I'll retire at 55 and go back to work at 80: how does that sound? Because stealing the best remaining years of my life in exchange for the worst is not a deal I am buying into.

4) Successive Govts have p*ssed NI (and taxes) up the wall earmarked for pensions. They've tried every fiddle in the book to fix the now unfunded hole but every one has failed because............... they've then p*ssed the NI up the wall earmarked for pensions.
- more increases in NI than Coffey's waistline
- graduated pensions, SERPS, S2P and more changes in these than any human being can recall
- continually jumping up the State Pension Age
all of it has failed as the collections have been poured into the debt abyss

Well LK should just give in now, her interview with LT was an embarrassment.
At least she threw Quasi under the bus.

Gove’s refusal to commit to voting in support of this fiscal event could be the most interesting snippet to come out of that car crash.

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:15 am Well LK should just give in now, her interview with LT was an embarrassment.
At least she threw Quasi under the bus.

The Beeb have had one ball cut off and the other one dangling by the tories. Can you imagine the line of questioning of any other political party after the chaos of last week/year/decade.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:51 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:11 am Or having thresholds for the state pension of course to bring them in line with social security e.g. benefits.

And the issue is pensions and the care you need to pay for because as said on average people are living far longer and need far higher pension and healthcare spending than was ever envisaged when the state pensions, NHS etc was created. It's only going to get more expensive needing higher tax. It does need a solution sooner rather than later.

Lots of moving parts in here, most of the important ones Govts have behind the curve on or ignored.

1) The State Pension is paid for by (almost) everyone via NI. If it's not going to be a universal entitlement, then stop taking the NI. In fact, scrap NI altogether and simply call it Income Tax....... but that won't happen because then Govt. would have to cease lying in claiming the UK has low Income Tax rates whereas in reality, the starting rate is in excess of 45% for everyone who earns. Tax Freedom Day is going to end up at Halloween at this rate.

2) People aren't living far longer any more. The mortality curve has peaked and is in reverse. Mainly because of lard arses removing themselves from the population but not before they've drained £ billions from the NHS. And that's the real killer (ahem): not the extension** in life expectancy but the explosion in ill health during the extension.

3)** Because after Barber v GRE, the UK Govt took the chance to jump women's retirement age to 65 too and since then, has been cranking it up for all. The trend is probably that people are working longer as a proportion of life expectancy (war death adjusted) than since a century ago. Worse, Govt peddle the lies that "it's okay to retire later because you are living longer". Tell you what, I'll retire at 55 and go back to work at 80: how does that sound? Because stealing the best remaining years of my life in exchange for the worst is not a deal I am buying into.

4) Successive Govts have p*ssed NI (and taxes) up the wall earmarked for pensions. They've tried every fiddle in the book to fix the now unfunded hole but every one has failed because............... they've then p*ssed the NI up the wall earmarked for pensions.
- more increases in NI than Coffey's waistline
- graduated pensions, SERPS, S2P and more changes in these than any human being can recall
- continually jumping up the State Pension Age
all of it has failed as the collections have been poured into the debt abyss

Can't disagree with any of this. It is interesting that the Gov claim we are one of the highest taxed countries but have one of the lowest state pensions - where does all the money go? The UK spends about 4.5 - 5.0% of GDP on state pensions and benefits compared with OECD average of 6.5% and is significantly lower than almost every other comparable European country. In the UK pensioners are heavily reliant on occupational or private pensions when compared to most other OECD countries. If you can't or choose not to save for your retirement then you are fecked in the UK. Our state pension is insufficient to live on,

Life expectancy has come down over the last few years mainly due to covid but it now seems also because of the NHS and social care struggling to perform with continual cuts in funding. Ave excess deaths are running about 1,000 per month above pre pandemic levels. More worryingly though is the number of folk of working age who are inactive or leaving the workforce - the BoE suggested a few months ago that this is due to ill health, in particular long covid, and also that it now includes men and women up to age of 66 and many can't work for health reasons.

Ill health in older age is a major issue. The NHS has been remarkable successful in keeping folk alive but this comes with costs. In the bad old days if you contracted cancer chances are you died from that primary cancer, now with new drugs, radiotherapy, early detection, etc we can ensure most folk survive their cancer. However chances are it will reoccur somewhere down the line and we will treat them again. this can go on for many cycles with cancer sufferers having a reasonable quality of life. However it costs a lot more than it did - 2,3,4+ cycles of expensive treatment compared with one cycle then death. I remember someone telling me TAVI was a great technique in replacing heart valves particularly in the over 85s. Where do we draw the line? When the NHS tries to do this the public outcry is huge and the politicians retreat to avoid losing votes - think IVF treatment, certain types of cosmetic surgery, prescribing exercise classes instead of drugs, etc. Its easy to criticise but feckin difficult to make the decisions.

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:15 am Well LK should just give in now, her interview with LT was an embarrassment.
At least she threw Quasi under the bus.

Not sure who was worst Kuenssberg or Truss.
Though we do know now that Kwarteng is soley to blame for the 45% tax abolition and Michael Gove would maake a good leader of the opposition

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:18 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:11 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:07 pm

The state pension is a universal benefit earned by everyone who has contributed to the system. If you have a problem with pensioners with private pensions and big houses and other incomes living in luxury then the solution rests elsewhere ie taxation. Suggesting the state pension is the issue is wrong - if pensioners are living in luxury and that is a problem then we need to think about taxation of unearned incomes ie dividends, property taxes, etc. This really isn't anything to do with pensions per se.

Or having thresholds for the state pension of course to bring them in line with social security e.g. benefits.

And the issue is pensions and the care you need to pay for because as said on average people are living far longer and need far higher pension and healthcare spending than was ever envisaged when the state pensions, NHS etc was created. It's only going to get more expensive needing higher tax. It does need a solution sooner rather than later.

Thresholds for the state pension aren’t workable. I’m about 50, so if you introduced that I’d need to find something like an additional quarter of a million pounds to replace that over the next 15 years or so. That’s additional, over and above my current pension and savings plans.

Yes, you could do it for people who are just entering the workplace, but that’s a fifty year policy that no one is going to take on.

Right, there are no good options. And this isn't a UK specific problem. Every western nation has increasing life expectancy, decreasing birthrates and the social security for retirees is a ticking time bomb globally.

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:13 am

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:15 am Well LK should just give in now, her interview with LT was an embarrassment.
At least she threw Quasi under the bus.

Not sure who was worst Kuenssberg or Truss.
Though we do know now that Kwarteng is soley to blame for the 45% tax abolition and Michael Gove would maake a good leader of the opposition

Dizzy is a very forgiving Boss; most would immediately sack a subordinate that hadn't previously cleared, such a major, & unpopular change beforehand with them !

Was she asked why she is refusing to publish the ORB report until November, even though it will be available next week ?

That's the right motivation. It's how households work. People know that when their bills arrive they can either cut their consumption or they can get a higher salary, go out and get that new job. That's the approach the government is taking, we're
saying: look, let's create growth so households can afford their bills.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-63074338

Fuck me pink; are these not the same pricks who are refusing to engage with Unions seeking those higher salaries ?

.... and obviously saying that these increases will be inflationary

"My Tufton Street minions didn't prepare me for this one! What is the answer! Fuck!".

dpedin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:41 am Can't disagree with any of this. It is interesting that the Gov claim we are one of the highest taxed countries but have one of the lowest state pensions - where does all the money go?

I don't know enough about the ins and outs of pensions to add anything to what you and Torq have posted. But this is a different question.

The big thing that's happened in the past few weeks, is the Tory energy bailout costing £60bn (some estimate the eventual cost could be much higher, even £200bn). That's UK public debt going to private energy companies that are currently making windfall profits because of the Russia/Ukraine war, Thatcher used a windfall tax but the Tories deem that too left wing now, nationalisation was also rejected. All that's being paid for is a limited period of lower energy bills for consumers. It's a huge public debt to fund consumption with nothing else to show for it.

These assets were originally privatised under Thatcherism to supposedly drive growth and efficiency etc. In economics it's called "crowding out" when state speeding prevents private investment, because the state's expanded fiscal policy means interest rates rise and suck up all the private investment spending, why go to the effort of investing when you can buy bonds at a high interest rate and get a similar return with the same or less risk. This has been known since at least the 18th century (the two Scots, Hume and Smith). This is all the libertarian (IEA, Thatcherism etc) stuff is built on, most of the rest is ideological bullshit and billionaires refusing to pay taxes.

This has happened before. After the 2008 GFC, and Covid PPE. The 2008 crash wasn't really "bailing out the banks" they're not free floating entities disconnected from anything else in the economy, it was bailing home owners and pensions. The Covid PPE spend just looks like mass looting. It's all really just an asset swap, private junk becomes public debt.

The next move that happens, is everyone looks at the huge government debt mountain and says "there's a public debt crisis!", when actually there isn't. In the absence of growth government spending is cut to try and reduce this debt, this is what austerity is. During the austerity phase everyone fights like mad bastards to cut who knows what blaming anyone that isn't them for destroying the economy. What this really means is liquidating assets to try and pay off debts, spending on teachers or roads isn't a cost it's an asset. Ultimately assets generate the growth, and the assets are the public goods (good luck having a "high skilled high wage economy" if the education system is unequal and underfunded). Liquidating assets to pay off debt, usually means you have a reduced asset pool and so reduced scope to outgrow the debt ... and in the end more debt (the debt to asset ratio rises). All through the Tory austerity years the UK's debt kept growing and there was little growth.

Then it gets weird.

First the Tories privatise everything they can to prevent crowding out, then they pump up government debt and give it to those same private entities. Now there's potentially privatisation and crowding out. Truss and Kamikwazi don't know what they're talking about because they're okay with massive interest rate increases and also talk about private sector generated growth (when there's shitloads of UK bonds that could be paying 6%?). Then it gets even more weird, they're now cutting taxes in an attempt to increase growth, which there's no evidence works, besides the UK already having low corporate taxation and all sorts of loopholes. To fund this tax cutting there'll apparently be further austerity (which as the track record shows means more debt).

... You can tell this isn't really understood, because there's little outrage over how the energy bailout was funded, Tories normally get away with saying it's an excellent solution (which it is, for their funders).

I see the social media message for the cheerleaders is " The pound has rallied, MSM get a grip and stop panicking the markets!"

Risible bullshit.

He’s a prick, but fair play to Fabricant for this

sefton wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:37 am Gove’s refusal to commit to voting in support of this fiscal event could be the most interesting snippet to come out of that car crash.

Anyone voting against will be expelled from the Tory Party.
Not too sure about those who abstain

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:18 pm

sefton wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:37 am Gove’s refusal to commit to voting in support of this fiscal event could be the most interesting snippet to come out of that car crash.

Anyone voting against will be expelled from the Tory Party.
Not too sure about those who abstain

There may be some that are past the point where they give a fuck

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:22 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:18 pm

sefton wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:37 am Gove’s refusal to commit to voting in support of this fiscal event could be the most interesting snippet to come out of that car crash.

Anyone voting against will be expelled from the Tory Party.
Not too sure about those who abstain

There may be some that are past the point where they give a fuck

Shitloads of the Red Wall Tory MPs are fecked anyway so they have nowt to lose

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:42 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:22 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:18 pm

Anyone voting against will be expelled from the Tory Party.
Not too sure about those who abstain

There may be some that are past the point where they give a fuck

Shitloads of the Red Wall Tory MPs are fecked anyway so they have nowt to lose

They'd probably all prefer another couple of years on the gravy train, with their £150k, & expenses to keep the heating on in their stables !

It'd be nice to think they'd pull the whole thing down; but the last twelve years hasn't exactly been marked with many instances of Tories putting the Nations interests before their own.

U-Turn incoming on the 45p top rate cut.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:05 am U-Turn incoming on the 45p top rate cut.

The damage is done. The tag of the Party of the rich will stick.
This will ahow the markets that they are indecisive as well as useless.

I wonder how much influence Grima Gove had, emerging from his bunker to say how he wasn't in favour.

Meanwhile, Chris Philp has decided businesses with less than 500 employees need absolutely no regulatory oversight at at all. This is, of course, a classic case of saying outrageous shit to "back down" to the only marginally less outrageous shit you wanted all along, but fucking hell.

And in other meritocracy news, Rees-Mogg's Somerset Capital co-founder and Tory donor, Dominic Johnson gets a trade minister job and has a knighthood chucked in for good measure.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:53 am I wonder how much influence Grima Gove had, emerging from his bunker to say how he wasn't in favour.

Meanwhile, Chris Philp has decided businesses with less than 500 employees need absolutely no regulatory oversight at at all. This is, of course, a classic case of saying outrageous shit to "back down" to the only marginally less outrageous shit you wanted all along, but fucking hell.

And in other meritocracy news, Rees-Mogg's Somerset Capital co-founder and Tory donor, Dominic Johnson gets a trade minister job and has a knighthood chucked in for good measure.

I think you'll find it's a peerage!!!

That's kind of a feature of the system though - if you want to bring someone into government and they aren't an MP then you have to give them a peerage to get them into Parliament.

The bit it makes some kind of sense to be outraged about is that particular person being made a minister, and / or a non-MP being made a minister (though that has been the case for as long as our constitution has existed). The rest is just mechanics.

And as if by magic, even as the dead cat of tax cuts bounces off the table of time (RIP Humph), Kwarteng announces cuts of up to £18bn for public services.

Although in this inflationary time of fucked currency, that's probably the cost of a couple of trainee nurses and a teaching assistant.

When a U-turn is still a car crash

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:06 am

It's just awful.

I was having a conversation a moment ago about just how bad this latest government is proving. We know that none of them are particularly bright (and that's not just a throwaway remark, they are not) and their inability to think on their feet is extraordinary at that level of government, but also the teams they have in place are also unbelievably bad. I can't remember a group of senior politicians who are seemingly so badly briefed and so far away from reality. How have none of the questions they are being asked been predicted, how have the public reactions not been factored in, it's just so shite.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:16 am And as if by magic, even as the dead cat of tax cuts bounces off the table of time (RIP Humph), Kwarteng announces cuts of up to £18bn for public services.

Although in this inflationary time of fucked currency, that's probably the cost of a couple of trainee nurses and a teaching assistant.

They are toast, its just a matter of how long before they collapse. The UK public have decided already, the polls are excruciatingly bad for the Tories, and the majority of their MPs, who didnt want Truss, are already trying to work out what their survival/exit strategy is. The press is shifting as well as none want to be associated with this shitfest of a Gov. Financial markets don't trust them and international community, apart from Putin, are furious and scared of contagion spreading from UK into their already fragile markets. This is all before they start announcing their public sector spending cuts, environmental deregulation - just wait till the RSPCB and Wild life Trust get going - and selling off of the NHS. Then they will have to make a disastrous retreat from their Brexit and NI Protocol hard lines as it becomes clear any level of growth is impossible without better, easier access to EU and US markets and they will piss off the DUP again in the process. Expect troubles in NI. Then mortgage payments will increase, loans will be more expensive and as folk stop spending then the economy will contract leading to job losses and higher unemployment. Finally we will have another covid wave and the NHS will revert to emergency and cancer services only creating even longer queues, bigger waiting lists and continuing high levels of excess deaths. They have no answers and no backers - Its really hard to think of anyone credible who still supports them? If they make it to Christmas then they will be lucky.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:50 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:06 am

It's just awful.

I was having a conversation a moment ago about just how bad this latest government is proving. We know that none of them are particularly bright (and that's not just a throwaway remark, they are not) and their inability to think on their feet is extraordinary at that level of government, but also the teams they have in place are also unbelievably bad. I can't remember a group of senior politicians who are seemingly so badly briefed and so far away from reality. How have none of the questions they are being asked been predicted, how have the public reactions not been factored in, it's just so shite.

It's because they sacked almost all the permanent secretaries and senior civil servants and appointed inexperienced ones who they know will tow the line. New Treasury PS has no experience of working in Treasury nor with BoE - mad, almost suicidal?

This Government is what you get when everyone with half a brain and an ability to play the game of compromise in politics has disappeared, and all that is left is the zealots who install their think tank wonks, plus the sort of MPs normally confined to the back benches where they just get up to the sort of cretinous mischief the likes of Chope and Fabricant delight in.

And 35% of the country will still vote for and support them because blue rosette.

Leaked offgem letter suggesting there's a significant risk in load shedding this winter in the UK. Prices are going up again, European governments getting twitchy that countries aren't cutting consumption enough. Oh and long range forecasts (not very reliable but anyhow) suggests it'll be colder than usual this winter. Uh oh.

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:59 am

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:16 am And as if by magic, even as the dead cat of tax cuts bounces off the table of time (RIP Humph), Kwarteng announces cuts of up to £18bn for public services.

Although in this inflationary time of fucked currency, that's probably the cost of a couple of trainee nurses and a teaching assistant.

They are toast, its just a matter of how long before they collapse. The UK public have decided already, the polls are excruciatingly bad for the Tories, and the majority of their MPs, who didnt want Truss, are already trying to work out what their survival/exit strategy is. The press is shifting as well as none want to be associated with this shitfest of a Gov. Financial markets don't trust them and international community, apart from Putin, are furious and scared of contagion spreading from UK into their already fragile markets. This is all before they start announcing their public sector spending cuts, environmental deregulation - just wait till the RSPCB and Wild life Trust get going - and selling off of the NHS. Then they will have to make a disastrous retreat from their Brexit and NI Protocol hard lines as it becomes clear any level of growth is impossible without better, easier access to EU and US markets and they will piss off the DUP again in the process. Expect troubles in NI. Then mortgage payments will increase, loans will be more expensive and as folk stop spending then the economy will contract leading to job losses and higher unemployment. Finally we will have another covid wave and the NHS will revert to emergency and cancer services only creating even longer queues, bigger waiting lists and continuing high levels of excess deaths. They have no answers and no backers - Its really hard to think of anyone credible who still supports them? If they make it to Christmas then they will be lucky.

Don’t forget the general strike, coming your way this winter.

surprise!