NPR

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:00 pm She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

Douglas Adams got it

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

robmatic wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:44 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:42 pm Two polls in the Grauniad have Lab with 32 and 36 point leads respectively.

The Tories are still polling at 23% and 20% in them.

You have to wonder what they would need to do to prevent that 20% voting for them

You need to remember that there is a certain proportion of people who just don't pay any attention to what is going on in politics but still get and use a vote.

Well yes, but just on a purely selfish level there won't be too many people who haven't noticed their energy bills rise, their mortgages or rents rise, the price of food increase and all manner of things that have an impact on their lives.

I presume they will be wondering wtf is going on.

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:18 pm

robmatic wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:44 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:42 pm Two polls in the Grauniad have Lab with 32 and 36 point leads respectively.

The Tories are still polling at 23% and 20% in them.

You have to wonder what they would need to do to prevent that 20% voting for them

You need to remember that there is a certain proportion of people who just don't pay any attention to what is going on in politics but still get and use a vote.

Well yes, but just on a purely selfish level there won't be too many people who haven't noticed their energy bills rise, their mortgages or rents rise, the price of food increase and all manner of things that have an impact on their lives.

I presume they will be wondering wtf is going on.

Semi wealthy elderly with mortgage paid off. They'll have been slightly impacted but be firmly of the opinion that it's down to the youth, immigrants and that other lot would have been far worse.

Raggs wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:25 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:18 pm

robmatic wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:44 pm

You need to remember that there is a certain proportion of people who just don't pay any attention to what is going on in politics but still get and use a vote.

Well yes, but just on a purely selfish level there won't be too many people who haven't noticed their energy bills rise, their mortgages or rents rise, the price of food increase and all manner of things that have an impact on their lives.

I presume they will be wondering wtf is going on.

Semi wealthy elderly with mortgage paid off. They'll have been slightly impacted but be firmly of the opinion that it's down to the youth, immigrants and that other lot would have been far worse.

Well I'm reading that the Gas price cap will be £4k in April, so that's at a level where there are plenty of people who won't qualify for the ongoing support, but don't have that kind of cash lying around in the couch.

Plus I believe Hunt threw out there that the triple-lock wasn't sacrosact.

tabascoboy wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:07 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:00 pm She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

Douglas Adams got it

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

I thought that was Billy Connelly

Slick wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:45 pm

tabascoboy wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:07 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:00 pm She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

Douglas Adams got it

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

I thought that was Billy Connelly

you lot think everything was done first by a scot

I suppose the good news is that it's currently just the one, remaining, fund, but the wording suggests that there were a number of others, who are worth a shitload less than they were a month or two ago.

Britain's financial regulators have identified one remaining fund at an asset manager which would have faced a series of "knockouts" and potential collapse if gilt yields had risen markedly this morning.

A half percentage point rise in the interest rates on government bonds would have left this fund, whose identity Sky News is protecting, having to conduct a "firesale" of government bonds, we have learnt.

However, since the problems are located specifically in a single fund, the Bank of England believes that its collapse would not provoke a system-wide problem that would necessitate its intervention.

https://news.sky.com/story/single-fund- ... s-12722817

Good fucking riddance

fishfoodie wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:07 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:00 pm She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

There is some percentage of me that is sympathatic; but ...

this is a serious job, for serious people, & if you can't deal with the slings & arrows, you shouldn't put yourself in the running !

Iron Lady 2.0 my arse; if you, or I had said being PM wasn't a job for.a woman, we'd have been pilloryed, & rightly so, because there are plenty of examples of women in power, who demonstrated they have the capacity to take the enormous stress that a job like this entails.

She isn't & never was up to the job !

Yes I should be clear that whilst I have sympathy on a human level as a citizen I wish she’d fuck off

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:00 pm She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

There is an element of me that does have sympathy for her, on a human level but then I remember that she had the belief, mistaken belief but belief nonetheless that she had the qualities needed to do this very serious job. My sympathies kind of go out the window then.

The sun god wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:42 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:00 pm She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

There is an element of me that does have sympathy for her, on a human level but then I remember that she had the belief, mistaken belief but belief nonetheless that she had the qualities needed to do this very serious job. My sympathies kind of go out the window then.

Also a lettuce during its short time can not cause any major harm to millions of people.

The whole tory world, based on utter bollocks, trickle down economics and resentment of poor people, has collapsed. It gives you zero growth and lots of death.
There you go tories, you now don't have to die wondering.
Zero growth, Death. Everything fucked, to the point that when something like covid comes along..we are in the lap of the gods.

But ohhh no. What's this... austerity 2.0?
Fuck off.
To go to austerity 2.0 (1.0 cost 300 thousand lives at the last count, and nearly cost me mine not as if anyone cares) is just maddening. Food banks are at capacity, everything is shit unless you live amongst million and billionaires and adopt their anger and resentment at everyone else,

Time to seriously tax people until they fuck off and take their resentment and stupid half assed selfish ideas with them.

Honestly, just fuck off England.

The sun god wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:42 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:00 pm She must be absolutely mentally crushed, probably dreamed of this her whole life and it’s gone worse than almost anyone predicted. From imagining yourself as Thatcher 2.0 to competing with a lettuce with a wig on. Has to hurt

There is an element of me that does have sympathy for her, on a human level but then I remember that she had the belief, mistaken belief but belief nonetheless that she had the qualities needed to do this very serious job. My sympathies kind of go out the window then.

Yep, agree with this. Unfortunately for too many the top jobs have become a social circle. If she wants her Chequers party I’d get on with it

Yes, on one level she's someone's wife/mother/daughter/friend, so on a personal level one can have sympathy for a fellow human who is in a bad predicament.

However, it's entirely self-inflicted and she has directly hurt a vast number of wives/mothers/sisters/friends, as well as their male counterparts, and all by her own stupid actions, actions she was apparently counselled against by her professional advisors, but she shouted them down.

She should go, she's clearly not up to the job.

A general election now, please.

On a human level, she's a misery-spreading proponent of the "fuck you got mine" libertarian ethos who was gleefully prepared to make life materially much, much worse for the most vulnerable in our society so I couldn't give a flying fuck if she's feeling sad about her grasping opportunism and naked ambition exposing her to public ridicule.

And she's still fucking there, so it's not like she's done the only vaguely honourable thing left which would to be to admit the entire thing was a gigantic mistake and quit politics.

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:11 am On a human level, she's a misery-spreading proponent of the "fuck you got mine" libertarian ethos who was gleefully prepared to make life materially much, much worse for the most vulnerable in our society so I couldn't give a flying fuck if she's feeling sad about her grasping opportunism and naked ambition exposing her to public ridicule.

And she's still fucking there, so it's not like she's done the only vaguely honourable thing left which would to be to admit the entire thing was a gigantic mistake and quit politics.

Yeah, this is the thing for me. The libertarian ethos which she and her fellow travellers subscribe to has no empathy for other people when they're struggling, so fuck her.

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:21 am

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:11 am On a human level, she's a misery-spreading proponent of the "fuck you got mine" libertarian ethos who was gleefully prepared to make life materially much, much worse for the most vulnerable in our society so I couldn't give a flying fuck if she's feeling sad about her grasping opportunism and naked ambition exposing her to public ridicule.

And she's still fucking there, so it's not like she's done the only vaguely honourable thing left which would to be to admit the entire thing was a gigantic mistake and quit politics.

Yeah, this is the thing for me. The libertarian ethos which she and her fellow travellers subscribe to has no empathy for other people when they're struggling, so fuck her.

Aye, but the non-libertarians are supposed to better than, "fuck you".

I just want her and her awful party gone, for good preferably.

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:21 am

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:11 am On a human level, she's a misery-spreading proponent of the "fuck you got mine" libertarian ethos who was gleefully prepared to make life materially much, much worse for the most vulnerable in our society so I couldn't give a flying fuck if she's feeling sad about her grasping opportunism and naked ambition exposing her to public ridicule.

And she's still fucking there, so it's not like she's done the only vaguely honourable thing left which would to be to admit the entire thing was a gigantic mistake and quit politics.

Yeah, this is the thing for me. The libertarian ethos which she and her fellow travellers subscribe to has no empathy for other people when they're struggling, so fuck her.

Quite!

More unpopular than Corbyn

I don't know about anyone else but my Schadenfreudometer is off the scale at the moment.

I have zero sympathy for Truss whatsoever. She was a callous ideologue beholden to even more callous groups whose primary interests are apparently reducing us to serfdom in an ever less livable environment.

Fuck her, fuck her ideas and fuck the Tories. Most of them only want rid of her because she's unpopular and likely to compromise their chances of re-election, they don't actually disagree with what she was trying to do.

sockwithaticket wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:33 am I have zero sympathy for Truss whatsoever. She was a callous ideologue beholden to even more callous groups whose primary interests are apparently reducing us to serfdom in an ever less livable environment.

Fuck her, fuck her ideas and fuck the Tories. Most of them only want rid of her because she's unpopular and likely to compromise their chances of re-election, they don't actually disagree with what she was trying to do.

This about sums it up for me too!

SaintK wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:17 am More unpopular than Corbyn

The surprise to me is that there are still people who think she is doing a good job. Even the most died-in-the-wool Tory must realise she is an unmitigated disaster. Even her Tufton Street puppet-masters have given up on her (even if they are only now against her because she has acquiesced to the calls to ditch her mad budget).

Lobby wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:06 am

SaintK wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:17 am More unpopular than Corbyn

The surprise to me is that there are still people who think she is doing a good job. Even the most died-in-the-wool Tory must realise she is an unmitigated disaster. Even her Tufton Street puppet-masters have given up on her (even if they are only now against her because she has acquiesced to the calls to ditch her mad budget).

Some people are still convinced that this is all just a remainer plot

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:11 am On a human level, she's a misery-spreading proponent of the "fuck you got mine" libertarian ethos who was gleefully prepared to make life materially much, much worse for the most vulnerable in our society so I couldn't give a flying fuck if she's feeling sad about her grasping opportunism and naked ambition exposing her to public ridicule.

And she's still fucking there, so it's not like she's done the only vaguely honourable thing left which would to be to admit the entire thing was a gigantic mistake and quit politics.

Putting the psychologist cap on. There's two key things about her. First that she's a moron, which I posted on this thread long before she was a Tory leader candidate, her shallowness is astounding. Second she's a zealot, her parents were radical socialists, she was a radical liberal, then became a Tory but really just became more extreme in her liberalism (if you look into those around her and the IEA big brains, quite a few were Libdems in the distant past). These two things interact with eachother, if she was less of a zealot she probably wouldn't be as shallow or stupid.

Psychologically the point of being a zealot is to be self righteous and laud it over others. Normally when these people fail and are proven wrong the self righteousness is all that survives (revealing that was the real point), they wriggle and lie still finding some bullshit way to justify looking down on others. She cannot do that without looking insane.

I'm looking forward to PMQs and her blinking like an android out of Alien or Blade Runner that's about to seriously malfunction, then rolling up her papers and shoving them down Starmer's throat whilst screaming "Brexit is the perfectly adapted organism!". She's going to look that insane.

A lot of people have tied their identity to brexit the fact that it is a bag of shit is hard for them to accept.

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:57 am

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:21 am

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:11 am On a human level, she's a misery-spreading proponent of the "fuck you got mine" libertarian ethos who was gleefully prepared to make life materially much, much worse for the most vulnerable in our society so I couldn't give a flying fuck if she's feeling sad about her grasping opportunism and naked ambition exposing her to public ridicule.

And she's still fucking there, so it's not like she's done the only vaguely honourable thing left which would to be to admit the entire thing was a gigantic mistake and quit politics.

Yeah, this is the thing for me. The libertarian ethos which she and her fellow travellers subscribe to has no empathy for other people when they're struggling, so fuck her.

Aye, but the non-libertarians are supposed to better than, "fuck you".

I just want her and her awful party gone, for good preferably.

Are we? There's nothing in the non-libertarian handbook that demands we have to feel sorry for someone who is a huge negative to society, who wouldn't piss on any of us if we were on fire, and who is suffering from the malaise of "just being shit at the job she got partly by actively harming the country". It's not like she has brain cancer. She's just down because she's being found out. Enough of this false sympathy, she doesn't deserve a nanosecond of it from anyone.

Lobby wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:06 am

SaintK wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:17 am More unpopular than Corbyn

The surprise to me is that there are still people who think she is doing a good job. Even the most died-in-the-wool Tory must realise she is an unmitigated disaster. Even her Tufton Street puppet-masters have given up on her (even if they are only now against her because she has acquiesced to the calls to ditch her mad budget).

What I find quite funny is that the Tories had stumbled onto a pretty robust electoral platform - bit of chat about economic redistribution aka levelling-up combined with easy wins in the culture war stuff - and they have managed to royally dick it up courtesy of the Brexit loons. I think they'll be in the wilderness for a while now.

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:15 am

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:57 am

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:21 am

Yeah, this is the thing for me. The libertarian ethos which she and her fellow travellers subscribe to has no empathy for other people when they're struggling, so fuck her.

Aye, but the non-libertarians are supposed to better than, "fuck you".

I just want her and her awful party gone, for good preferably.

Are we? There's nothing in the non-libertarian handbook that demands we have to feel sorry for someone who is a huge negative to society, who wouldn't piss on any of us if we were on fire, and who is suffering from the malaise of "just being shit at the job she got partly by actively harming the country". It's not like she has brain cancer. She's just down because she's being found out. Enough of this false sympathy, she doesn't deserve a nanosecond of it from anyone.

everyone's milage may vary etc

but I think any kind of "fuck you" just adds to the nastiness, the bitter factionalism, the "I'm right" certainties that are, imo, a huge part of the problems we face.
The right of the Tory party thrives on this, it drove Brexit, it makes otherwise sane people think that sinking rubber dinghies with refugees in them is a good idea, it's behind the "lower my tax, fuck the services", "I know my rights, I don't have any responsibilities" attitudes, that standing on the heads of others on the way up is okay.

In short, it justifies the worst of the things I oppose, if both sides act like this then it's difficult to tell them apart at times.

I'm not in any way saying, "Oh poor Liz", I want shot of all of them, they are all bastards, they can all just fuck the fuck off without further mention, imo.

petej wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:05 am A lot of people have tied their identity to brexit the fact that it is a bag of shit is hard for them to accept.

Correct and because this is all now part of the identity of the perpetrators and their loudest supporters, they cannot walk away from it without losing part of themselves. So they're going to rant about "betrayal" for the rest of their lives, their cast of villains is now so wide they may as well be blaming reality. That's when any sympathy anyone has will disappear, the "real Communism hasn't been tried" defence gets tired quickly. The more Truss speaks the less people will think of her as a victim, and Truss and others like her will be speaking for years to come.

There is still a place for empathy for someone who is exposed to be a failure in her job on an international scale. She has quite rightly taking an almighty battering over the last few weeks, but it would have devastated most of us.

That said, she's totally inept and unsuited to any top level political job. I'm glad her and her doctrines (which quite a few Tories shared until they saw the polls) are being found out and hopefully it will be a start of a change in political discourse.
Obviously it's awful that many people will feel the hardships because of these nasty politics.
So the sooner she's gone, the better, and hopefully she takes the likes of Coffey, Braverman and JRM with her - though this might be wishful thinking.

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:10 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:15 am

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:57 am


Aye, but the non-libertarians are supposed to better than, "fuck you".

I just want her and her awful party gone, for good preferably.

Are we? There's nothing in the non-libertarian handbook that demands we have to feel sorry for someone who is a huge negative to society, who wouldn't piss on any of us if we were on fire, and who is suffering from the malaise of "just being shit at the job she got partly by actively harming the country". It's not like she has brain cancer. She's just down because she's being found out. Enough of this false sympathy, she doesn't deserve a nanosecond of it from anyone.

everyone's milage may vary etc

but I think any kind of "fuck you" just adds to the nastiness, the bitter factionalism, the "I'm right" certainties that are, imo, a huge part of the problems we face.
The right of the Tory party thrives on this, it drove Brexit, it makes otherwise sane people think that sinking rubber dinghies with refugees in them is a good idea, it's behind the "lower my tax, fuck the services", "I know my rights, I don't have any responsibilities" attitudes, that standing on the heads of others on the way up is okay.

In short, it justifies the worst of the things I oppose, if both sides act like this then it's difficult to tell them apart at times.

I'm not in any way saying, "Oh poor Liz", I want shot of all of them, they are all bastards, they can all just fuck the fuck off without further mention, imo.

Well there's a lot of people going "on a human level I feel sorry for her" which is just bizarre unless they genuinely don't think that a) this is a problem entirely of her own creation, b) that she's done huge damage to the country and was willing to victimise the poor while encouraging fascist shite from the likes of Braverman, and c) that there is in any way something that's happened that should override our antipathy to her.

To repeat - she doesn't have cancer. She just grasped her way to being Prime Minister and tried to impose a dreadful ideology on to all of us, for the benefit of the very few, and has to deal with the fallout and having her days numbered as PM.

There's no both-sidesing this. When someone that dangerous, that incompetent, that arrogant, that unlikeable, that dishonest tries to do something genuinely harmful and falls flat on their face - laughing at their misfortune by no means contributes to factionalism. It's a human response that is pretty much the mildest thing that could happen. When is it acceptable to say "good, fuck off" if not now? It's like feeling sorry for Boris because he got voted out by his own party. A problem entirely of his own creation, that happened precisely because he's an absolute piece of shit.

There is nothing to feel sorry for. Guillotines have been brought out for less than this government's attempted.

edit: to be clear, the shaming that is happening is essentially the only meaningful consequence for Truss's actions. She's not on the breadline. Her health isn't impacted. Her job prospects probably continue to be fine, if not for PM, despite being manifestly unsuited to being a politican. The consequences she's facing are miniscule compared to the consequences other people have felt as a direct result of her actions in office. And there's really no way round it: she's done nothing good here. She came in and utterly fucked it in the name of bunch of cultists to an ideology that is "fuck you got mine" in words and deeds. She won't go hungry, or be cold this winter. She'll get a fat payoff and continue to stink up our political system despite being a gigantic, dangerous failure.

So no. No sympathy. No empathy. I can't feel empathy for people like Truss, to whom empathy is a foreign concept to begin with. It's good that she has no real power, good that she's been exposed as a charlatan, and good that she's suffering some tiny amount of consequences for her actions.

I dunno man, I felt empathy for Hitler when he was stuck in that wee bunker.

I don't expect anyone to back down; this is the internet.

I just don't think "fuck you" is a particularly dignified stance in this instance, not when the person in question looked to be broken or suffering a breakdown, yes even if by the consequences of their own actions.

It's not how I think politics or life in general should be conducted.

I'll be glad to see the back of the Tories, asap, but I'll leave the topic of schadenfreude for now.

Im sure she felt terrible about all the difficult decisions she has to make whilst sipping expensive white wine and eating nice canapés with her cabinet at No10 last night. I have absolutely no sympathy for people like her and her acolytes showing false sympathy for the poor whilst they push pensioners, disabled and poor into poverty and kids struggle to eat enough to avoid illness. She has been a member of Gov for over 10 years helped get us into this shitshow and with her first 'not a budget' was prepared to gamble with the lives of many to pursue a broken right wing idealogical drive shitfest. She deserves all she gets. I am sure she won't be in the queue for UC when she leaves! Perhaps Coffey will shift her a couple of her personal stock of diazepam to keep her going?

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:38 pm

Amazing how deep Tufton Street have infiltrated our Gov with their operatives strategically placed throughout our corridors of power. I wonder who funds them ....

She's having a good day today

No one at cabinet said Truss should resign, the PM’s spokesperson said.