NPR

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:27 pm**

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:34 pm If Kane was any more immobile Oliver Letwin would be shouting that Marxists were going to tear him down and throw him in the Thames.

I may steal that…

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:45 am**

Meh. We did enough. Scotland had the better of the game but didn’t feel we’d concede, Kane should have slotted one of the ones he had.
Struggle to share the pessimism I’ve seen - we’re essentially through and avoided a major banana skin.
More needed going forward but as English football goes I’ll take it

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:09 am**

Not entirely sure why Scotland are celebrating a 0-0 draw. Some quiet satisfaction would probably be OK, but pretending to have just achieved something amazing - nah.

As per usual, England nowhere near as good as their own press thinks. They won't stand a chance against Italy, France, Germany and Belgium. Just like any other tournament since 1966, basically.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:29 am**

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:09 am Not entirely sure why Scotland are celebrating a 0-0 draw. Some quiet satisfaction would probably be OK, but pretending to have just achieved something amazing - nah.

As per usual, England nowhere near as good as their own press thinks. They won't stand a chance against Italy, France, Germany and Belgium. Just like any other tournament since 1966, basically.

Pretty much how I feel. I guess the players were under enormous pressure so fair enough if they are chuffed with the result but I’m finding hard to be celebratory.

In saying that, it is an achievement, but quiet satisfaction seems about right to me

It actually seems like a very decent Scotland side who can push to qualify for major tournaments and have a modest impact so I hope this isn’t seen as the pinnacle

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:36 am**

It’s very simple. We had a poor result (although I think the performance was ok) on Monday and the England game was seen by some as a potential humping and thus exit from the tournament. I think the majority of the relief, celebration and excitement is because we are going into the final match with a chance of qualifying for the last 16 - something that looked unlikely after the Czech game.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:00 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:29 am
clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:09 am Not entirely sure why Scotland are celebrating a 0-0 draw. Some quiet satisfaction would probably be OK, but pretending to have just achieved something amazing - nah.

As per usual, England nowhere near as good as their own press thinks. They won't stand a chance against Italy, France, Germany and Belgium. Just like any other tournament since 1966, basically.
Pretty much how I feel. I guess the players were under enormous pressure so fair enough if they are chuffed with the result but I’m finding hard to be celebratory.

In saying that, it is an achievement, but quiet satisfaction seems about right to me

It actually seems like a very decent Scotland side who can push to qualify for major tournaments and have a modest impact so I hope this isn’t seen as the pinnacle

Aye, Scotland look a bit better than in the last decade or so - really need to find a quality striker, though, as goal scoring is not one of the team's talents.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:12 am**

Tattie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:36 am It’s very simple. We had a poor result (although I think the performance was ok) on Monday and the England game was seen by some as a potential humping and thus exit from the tournament. I think the majority of the relief, celebration and excitement is because we are going into the final match with a chance of qualifying for the last 16 - something that looked unlikely after the Czech game.

Definitely this. The context is clear, that was a massive point for us that we absolutely needed to give us any chance of making the next round. Everyone was delighted that we pulled it out the bag against the only side in the group we expected nothing from. We also have to remember that this group qualifying would make them the best performing in our history. That is a pretty big opportunity and one that they earned through a performance against a team that should be there or thereabouts at the business end of the tournament.

Oddly I think the reaction to the result is a little muted because it was England. If we had just earned that result by matching France, or Belgium or Italy or any other of the big boys nobody would be batting an eyelid at it.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:34 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:29 am
clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:09 am Not entirely sure why Scotland are celebrating a 0-0 draw. Some quiet satisfaction would probably be OK, but pretending to have just achieved something amazing - nah.

As per usual, England nowhere near as good as their own press thinks. They won't stand a chance against Italy, France, Germany and Belgium. Just like any other tournament since 1966, basically.
Pretty much how I feel. I guess the players were under enormous pressure so fair enough if they are chuffed with the result but I’m finding hard to be celebratory.

In saying that, it is an achievement, but quiet satisfaction seems about right to me

It actually seems like a very decent Scotland side who can push to qualify for major tournaments and have a modest impact so I hope this isn’t seen as the pinnacle

Give it a break lads. I'm annoyed we didn't actually win because the performance merited that, but the gulf in resources between the two nations is vast.

Do you think guys like O'Donnell are turning out for Motherwell, likely for less than £10k a week, because they don't fancy playing in the EPL for £100k, or that most of the rest like playing in the lower reaches of the Premiership, even the championship because the don't fancy stepping up.

Of course we should be happy with that result, but the football team are much like the current rugby team, a few stars and improving performances, but ultimately a long way to go and likely never to really make it.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:42 am**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:34 am
Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:29 am
clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:09 am Not entirely sure why Scotland are celebrating a 0-0 draw. Some quiet satisfaction would probably be OK, but pretending to have just achieved something amazing - nah.

As per usual, England nowhere near as good as their own press thinks. They won't stand a chance against Italy, France, Germany and Belgium. Just like any other tournament since 1966, basically.
Pretty much how I feel. I guess the players were under enormous pressure so fair enough if they are chuffed with the result but I’m finding hard to be celebratory.

In saying that, it is an achievement, but quiet satisfaction seems about right to me

It actually seems like a very decent Scotland side who can push to qualify for major tournaments and have a modest impact so I hope this isn’t seen as the pinnacle
Give it a break lads. I'm annoyed we didn't actually win because the performance merited that, but the gulf in resources between the two nations is vast.

Do you think guys like O'Donnell are turning out for Motherwell, likely for less than £10k a week, because they don't fancy playing in the EPL for £100k, or that most of the rest like playing in the lower reaches of the Premiership, even the championship because the don't fancy stepping up.

Of course we should be happy with that result, but the football team are much like the current rugby team, a few stars and improving performances, but ultimately a long way to go and likely never to really make it.

Seems a pretty accurate summary to me. Not great cause for celebration but England want to be having a long hard look at themselves if they think anything but QF/SF is their target in this tourney.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:08 am**

I dunno if you guys have been paying attention at all but there's been a lot of criticism of England for some time now.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:18 am**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:34 am
Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:29 am
clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:09 am Not entirely sure why Scotland are celebrating a 0-0 draw. Some quiet satisfaction would probably be OK, but pretending to have just achieved something amazing - nah.

As per usual, England nowhere near as good as their own press thinks. They won't stand a chance against Italy, France, Germany and Belgium. Just like any other tournament since 1966, basically.
Pretty much how I feel. I guess the players were under enormous pressure so fair enough if they are chuffed with the result but I’m finding hard to be celebratory.

In saying that, it is an achievement, but quiet satisfaction seems about right to me

It actually seems like a very decent Scotland side who can push to qualify for major tournaments and have a modest impact so I hope this isn’t seen as the pinnacle
Give it a break lads. I'm annoyed we didn't actually win because the performance merited that, but the gulf in resources between the two nations is vast.

Do you think guys like O'Donnell are turning out for Motherwell, likely for less than £10k a week, because they don't fancy playing in the EPL for £100k, or that most of the rest like playing in the lower reaches of the Premiership, even the championship because the don't fancy stepping up.

Of course we should be happy with that result, but the football team are much like the current rugby team, a few stars and improving performances, but ultimately a long way to go and likely never to really make it.

So am I annoyed we didn’t win! Deserved it, which is why I’m not jumping about the place.

I don’t think I have been disparaging at all, just a personal feeling that we actually deserved better

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:34 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:18 am
Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:34 am
Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:29 am

Pretty much how I feel. I guess the players were under enormous pressure so fair enough if they are chuffed with the result but I’m finding hard to be celebratory.

In saying that, it is an achievement, but quiet satisfaction seems about right to me

It actually seems like a very decent Scotland side who can push to qualify for major tournaments and have a modest impact so I hope this isn’t seen as the pinnacle
Give it a break lads. I'm annoyed we didn't actually win because the performance merited that, but the gulf in resources between the two nations is vast.

Do you think guys like O'Donnell are turning out for Motherwell, likely for less than £10k a week, because they don't fancy playing in the EPL for £100k, or that most of the rest like playing in the lower reaches of the Premiership, even the championship because the don't fancy stepping up.

Of course we should be happy with that result, but the football team are much like the current rugby team, a few stars and improving performances, but ultimately a long way to go and likely never to really make it.
So am I annoyed we didn’t win! Deserved it, which is why I’m not jumping about the place.

I don’t think I have been disparaging at all, just a personal feeling that we actually deserved better

I think we will always struggle at international level, because we will never have quality thoughout the team. At the moment only McTominey, Hanley, Tierney, Robertson, Gilmour and possibly McGinn are there, but as long as we are relying on the likes of Dykes, Adams, O'donnell, McGregor etc we will never have the quality at the this level. The lack of an out and out goal scorer is the greatest concern, at least 5 clear chances have been missed in the last two games which even a lad like Griffiths would have taken.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:36 am**

The likes of Bimbo are engaged in greeting about the behaviour of the Tartan Army over on PR. The irony is just mindblowing. I've been foolish enough to engage.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:01 pm**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:36 am The likes of Bimbo are engaged in greeting about the behaviour of the Tartan Army over on PR. The irony is just mindblowing. I've been foolish enough to engage.

Even football threads turn into dirty political slagfests there... it's amusing to watch, as long as you don't make the mistake of joining in... even a simple "hello" will be seen as some form of extremist greeting...

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:31 pm**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:36 am The likes of Bimbo are engaged in greeting about the behaviour of the Tartan Army over on PR. The irony is just mindblowing. I've been foolish enough to engage.

Is it too late to pull out?

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:37 pm**

Even more diving than normal in the Spain v Poland game

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:20 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:37 pm Even more diving than normal in the Spain v Poland game

Portugal were awful for it earlier too. So annoying.

And it seems to be accepted nowadays, the commentators don't even mention it anymore.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:28 pm**

salanya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:20 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:37 pm Even more diving than normal in the Spain v Poland game
Portugal were awful for it earlier too. So annoying.

And it seems to be accepted nowadays, the commentators don't even mention it anymore.

It’s without a doubt the worst thing about football. My pet peeve is the way that defenders throw themselves to the ground, generally holding their face/head when things start looking a bit sketchy in the box - right on cue 2 Poles do exactly that.

On another note - just how terrible a pundit is Danny Murphy?

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:32 pm**

salanya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:20 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:37 pm Even more diving than normal in the Spain v Poland game
Portugal were awful for it earlier too. So annoying.

And it seems to be accepted nowadays, the commentators don't even mention it anymore.

It just keeps getting watered down. Used to be fucking cheating > diving > simulation > going down easily

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:36 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:32 pm
salanya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:20 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:37 pm Even more diving than normal in the Spain v Poland game
Portugal were awful for it earlier too. So annoying.

And it seems to be accepted nowadays, the commentators don't even mention it anymore.
It just keeps getting watered down. Used to be fucking cheating > diving > simulation > going down easily > “winning” a free-kick/penalty

Fixed it for you.

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:43 pm**

Tattie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:36 pm
Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:32 pm
salanya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:20 pm

Portugal were awful for it earlier too. So annoying.

And it seems to be accepted nowadays, the commentators don't even mention it anymore.
It just keeps getting watered down. Used to be fucking cheating > diving > simulation > going down easily > “winning” a free-kick/penalty
Fixed it for you.

As an example, the Polish centre back looks like a nutter who goes out for a bit of stabbing on a Saturday night. He must hate himself for it, but knows he has to dive about and pretend he’s hurt to play the game. He actually looks offended by it all

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:49 pm**

I'll also add my agreement that Danny Murphy is an awful pundit/co-commentator.

Adds very little, and his comments on England are mad bias too. Apparently Poland are missing a Mason Mount....

Posted: **Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:52 pm**

salanya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:49 pm I'll also add my agreement that Danny Murphy is an awful pundit/co-commentator.

Adds very little, and his comments on England are mad bias too. Apparently Poland are missing a Mason Mount....

And England would love to play Spain as Spain are predictable, and are lacking pace and creativity.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:34 am**

Tattie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:36 am It’s very simple. We had a poor result (although I think the performance was ok) on Monday and the England game was seen by some as a potential humping and thus exit from the tournament. I think the majority of the relief, celebration and excitement is because we are going into the final match with a chance of qualifying for the last 16 - something that looked unlikely after the Czech game.

Exactly this. The celebration was because we played what was, on paper, our hardest game, we didn’t get the manshaming everyone predicted, and we’re still alive in the tournament with all to play for v Croatia.

TBH we have played well. With marginally better luck we might be sitting with 4 points instead of 1. But hey, that’s football.

On the subject of diving players, I have to mention Grealish here. The commentators on Friday were creaming themselves about him for a good 20 minutes before he came on. Then he did come on, and his contribution was to fall over a lot. Every time anyone came within 5m of him, in fact. I don’t think he did anything else. The commentators continued to enthuse about how good he was at ‘inviting’ the challenge, but what he was doing was diving at the slightest suggestion of contact. And the ref duly bought it every single time.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am**

If there's contact it's not a dive. That's just the game.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:22 am**

When he came prancing on with his hairband and then started falling over at the slightest breeze I was utterly convinced that McGinn was going to kick him up the arse and get a second yellow.

Scottish football has changed

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:23 am**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am If there's contact it's not a dive. That's just the game.

It’s still a dive. It may have become the game, but falling over when nothing has made you fall over is a dive

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:38 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:23 am
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am If there's contact it's not a dive. That's just the game.
It’s still a dive. It may have become the game, but falling over when nothing has made you fall over is a dive

No, in modern football a dive is when you do that with no contact.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:41 am**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am If there's contact it's not a dive. That's just the game.

Even when you throw your leg out, Sterling like, to catch the opposing player in a pathetic attempt to make it look like he caught you, not you catching him.

It's football's shame that these cheating pricks are not being reviewed and sanctioned.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:48 am**

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:41 am
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am If there's contact it's not a dive. That's just the game.
Even when you throw your leg out, Sterling like, to catch the opposing player in a pathetic attempt to make it look like he caught you, not you catching him.

It's football's shame that these cheating pricks are not being reviewed and sanctioned.

So that's Sterling and Grealish - any other English players you guys want to moan about? No Scots doing the same?

Look, you might not like it, but it's part of the sport now. Everyone does it. No-one is forcing you to watch a sport that has been this way for decades now.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:54 am**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:38 am
Slick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:23 am
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am If there's contact it's not a dive. That's just the game.
It’s still a dive. It may have become the game, but falling over when nothing has made you fall over is a dive
No, in modern football a dive is when you do that with no contact.

you’ve just made that up!

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:33 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:54 am
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:38 am
Slick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:23 am

It’s still a dive. It may have become the game, but falling over when nothing has made you fall over is a dive
No, in modern football a dive is when you do that with no contact.
you’ve just made that up!

I'm beginning to suspect you guys don't watch a lot of football...

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:54 am**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:33 am
Slick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:54 am
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:38 am

No, in modern football a dive is when you do that with no contact.
you’ve just made that up!
I'm beginning to suspect you guys don't watch a lot of football...

I’ve been a football fan all of my life and it’s now got to a point where any contact can be manipulated to be a foul. I remember Platini about 20 years ago suggesting making football pretty much a non-contact sport and that’s almost what it’s become. Contact does not/should not denote a foul and throwing yourself to the ground or expecting a free kick whenever there is even marginal contact goes against what the game should be. There’s a big difference between fouling someone and accidentally coming into contact with them as part of the game.

I watched my 10 year old son play this morning and if it was a “top level” pro game there would have probably been about four red cards, eight yellow cards and dozens of free kicks. It was nothing more than a hard-fought game played by two committed teams - no histrionics, no rolling around, no complaint. There was one poor lad who must have had about five good kicks to the shins in a tussle for the ball before being bundled to the ground, non of it illegal. He got straight back up, brushed himself off and got on with it.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:56 am**

I'm the definition of a casual fan and every time I turn on the telly to watch the big tournaments, I rarely last the full game with all the diving. It's an absolute plague on the sport.

Skill levels have definitely risen with the move to reduce the more muscular challenges but the diving is off the charts now.

It's the most popular sport on the planet so I'm sure that the powers that be see no reason to change things.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:15 pm**

Tattie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:54 am
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:33 am
Slick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:54 am

you’ve just made that up!
I'm beginning to suspect you guys don't watch a lot of football...
I’ve been a football fan all of my life and it’s now got to a point where any contact can be manipulated to be a foul. I remember Platini about 20 years ago suggesting making football pretty much a non-contact sport and that’s almost what it’s become. Contact does not/should not denote a foul and throwing yourself to the ground or expecting a free kick whenever there is even marginal contact goes against what the game should be. There’s a big difference between fouling someone and accidentally coming into contact with them as part of the game.

I watched my 10 year old son play this morning and if it was a “top level” pro game there would have probably been about four red cards, eight yellow cards and dozens of free kicks. It was nothing more than a hard-fought game played by two committed teams - no histrionics, no rolling around, no complaint. There was one poor lad who must have had about five good kicks to the shins in a tussle for the ball before being bundled to the ground, non of it illegal. He got straight back up, brushed himself off and got on with it.

Yup, I agree. I don't like it either, but it is indeed what the sport has become.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:39 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am If there's contact it's not a dive. That's just the game.

What utter bollocks. It may be both endemic and rife, but let’s call it what it is. Throwing yourself to the ground as soon as you’re touched is CHEATING. Football is a contact sport. Yes,
something needed to be done to protect skilful players from being kicked around the park all day, as was the case in the 70s. But nowhere in the rules of football will you find it written that any contact with a player constitutes a foul. It’s also applied entirely inconsistently - or there would be a penalty at every single corner. There’s always plenty of pushing and shoving.

My point wasn’t actually about the game in general though. It was about the commentators drooling about Grealish, and then when he came on all he did was dive, over and over again. Call me old-fashioned, but I think you need to do a bit more than that to be considered skilful.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:17 pm**

What a shitty sport football is. And that was a joke of a red card.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:56 pm**

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:39 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:20 am If there's contact it's not a dive. That's just the game.
What utter bollocks. It may be both endemic and rife, but let’s call it what it is. Throwing yourself to the ground as soon as you’re touched is CHEATING. Football is a contact sport. Yes,
something needed to be done to protect skilful players from being kicked around the park all day, as was the case in the 70s. But nowhere in the rules of football will you find it written that any contact with a player constitutes a foul. It’s also applied entirely inconsistently - or there would be a penalty at every single corner. There’s always plenty of pushing and shoving.

My point wasn’t actually about the game in general though. It was about the commentators drooling about Grealish, and then when he came on all he did was dive, over and over again. Call me old-fashioned, but I think you need to do a bit more than that to be considered skilful.

Sorry if you don't like it, but it is what it is. Even VAR and the referees agree.

Grealish didn't dive over and over. He got fouled over and over. The fact that he went down when he could've stayed on his feet is totally irrelevant.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:59 pm**

Pleasantly amazed that Wales didn’t give away a penalty given the time the ball spent in their penalty area.

Posted: **Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:16 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:33 am
Slick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:54 am
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:38 am

No, in modern football a dive is when you do that with no contact.
you’ve just made that up!
I'm beginning to suspect you guys don't watch a lot of football...

Either way, you completely made that up

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