NPR

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 7:05 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:57 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:53 pm A substitute making his debut for the last 20 minutes joining a team playing like dogshit - all the debutants deserve some sympathy for that goat fuck

Agreed. Tom Willis will come good. It just didn't put him in the driving seat or anything. Same story with Theo Dan - we all know he has the goods, no one is going to accuse him of being a talentless bottler despite that performance. It's one of those things where the malaise runs through the team, with even the good players making errors, the bad ones endless numbers of them, and the inexperienced players can't rise above it.

We're fucked for the world cup no matter what the 1st XV does against the Wales reserves next week.

Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Qualifying for Romania, even speaking pretty decent Romanian I think, certainly some, doesn't as such make him Romanian. There are for instance one or two reasons we might reasonably consider him English.

Romania have previously been in touch with him to see if he would be interested, but that wasn't anything he was looking to act on early in his career. Partly he wanted to see where he might end up vis a vis England, and partly not being an EQP as a young player trying to get into a pro squad makes things harder

There are some English players who are just not good enough at international level - Cokanasiga for example whose defence is shocking - but there were plenty on the pitch are international level who could and should have done much better. Problem was the game plan to play one out rugby and kick the shit out of the ball, that's Wales's specialty and they did it better than England as they have had years of practice! Not sure what Borthwicks plan for the team is, it seems to be pick players and then ask them to play a game plan completely different to what they are used to? I am also not convinced that they are as well conditioned as they need to be, Wales looked a fitter and stronger team and lasted the 80mins better. Work to be done for England.

How did England become so poor? Atrocious ball handling.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:06 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 7:05 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:57 pm

Agreed. Tom Willis will come good. It just didn't put him in the driving seat or anything. Same story with Theo Dan - we all know he has the goods, no one is going to accuse him of being a talentless bottler despite that performance. It's one of those things where the malaise runs through the team, with even the good players making errors, the bad ones endless numbers of them, and the inexperienced players can't rise above it.

We're fucked for the world cup no matter what the 1st XV does against the Wales reserves next week.

Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Qualifying for Romania, even speaking pretty decent Romanian I think, certainly some, doesn't as such make him Romanian. There are for instance one or two reasons we might reasonably consider him English.

Romania have previously been in touch with him to see if he would be interested, but that wasn't anything he was looking to act on early in his career. Partly he wanted to see where he might end up vis a vis England, and partly not being an EQP as a young player trying to get into a pro squad makes things harder

Romanian parents
Born in Herne Hill SE London
Played all his mini/junior rugby at Blackheath and school rugby at Alleynes
Saracens junior academy at 16

We could allow it was a clammy day under the roof. It's essentially a brand new team playing, with players having their first game in weeks, and we don't know how much they were spared high intensity training ahead of a warm-up match.

That's not to excuse all, but there might be some mitigation. How we progress given the conservative thinking that seems to be in place I don't know, but things might not be as bad as the game yesterday

dpedin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:07 am There are some English players who are just not good enough at international level - Cokanasiga for example whose defence is shocking - but there were plenty on the pitch are international level who could and should have done much better. Problem was the game plan to play one out rugby and kick the shit out of the ball, that's Wales's specialty and they did it better than England as they have had years of practice! Not sure what Borthwicks plan for the team is, it seems to be pick players and then ask them to play a game plan completely different to what they are used to? I am also not convinced that they are as well conditioned as they need to be, Wales looked a fitter and stronger team and lasted the 80mins better. Work to be done for England.

It seems a lot of coaches get seduced by Cokanasiga's size and power, and ignore other shortcomings - such as his tendency to get caught ball watching and out of position. The issue is, we played a game that highlighted his weaknesses and all but ignored ignored his strengths.

He can be extremely effective with ball in hand - even in this game he made some half breaks in the little bits of play I caught - but these never occurred in the right places where they might influence a game. Breaking a tackle to get a few yards over the gainline isn't so game-changing in your own 22 as it is in the opponents.

Instead, we played a kicking game that never even remotely looked like troubling the Welsh, once Costelow in particular got over his collywobbles and starting fielding the kicks properly.

Rees-Zammit is just quick and little more, and Dyer - who to be fair looks decent in the limited amount of time I've seen him - is only a few caps in. Did we ever really test them, ball in hand?

dpedin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:07 am There are some English players who are just not good enough at international level - Cokanasiga for example whose defence is shocking - but there were plenty on the pitch are international level who could and should have done much better. Problem was the game plan to play one out rugby and kick the shit out of the ball, that's Wales's specialty and they did it better than England as they have had years of practice! Not sure what Borthwicks plan for the team is, it seems to be pick players and then ask them to play a game plan completely different to what they are used to? I am also not convinced that they are as well conditioned as they need to be, Wales looked a fitter and stronger team and lasted the 80mins better. Work to be done for England.

No need to question it, you already identified the gameplan - shit, boring rugby that presents no challenge to a tier 1 team.

A few of us had serious reservations about Borthwick taking the helm given what his Leicester team were like and thus far nothing has occurred to allay those concerns.

An odd thing is one of Borthwick's big concerns with England was the speed at which the ball was getting played. Now one hears the big concerns are around defence, whereas how we take the ball into contact, how we present, he we support/clear hasn't (seemingly) so far been addressed. There would be from yesterday the need to consider it's a brand new side and there could well be players going into the game overly fatigued from training, but it's something of a theme from day 1 so...

Elephant in the room is that Sinfield’s much vaunted defence has been shambolic almost every time it has been applied to international rugby

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:06 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 7:05 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:57 pm

Agreed. Tom Willis will come good. It just didn't put him in the driving seat or anything. Same story with Theo Dan - we all know he has the goods, no one is going to accuse him of being a talentless bottler despite that performance. It's one of those things where the malaise runs through the team, with even the good players making errors, the bad ones endless numbers of them, and the inexperienced players can't rise above it.

We're fucked for the world cup no matter what the 1st XV does against the Wales reserves next week.

Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Qualifying for Romania, even speaking pretty decent Romanian I think, certainly some, doesn't as such make him Romanian. There are for instance one or two reasons we might reasonably consider him English.

Romania have previously been in touch with him to see if he would be interested, but that wasn't anything he was looking to act on early in his career. Partly he wanted to see where he might end up vis a vis England, and partly not being an EQP as a young player trying to get into a pro squad makes things harder

I think you missed the ;¬)

Will England be good again when a near first team easily beats a Welsh third string ?

C69 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:12 pm Will England be good again when a near first team easily beats a Welsh third string ?

Always wanting the moral victory.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:37 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:12 pm Will England be good again when a near first team easily beats a Welsh third string ?

Always wanting the moral victory.

Not really, should be a walk in the park for England tbh

C69 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:59 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:37 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:12 pm Will England be good again when a near first team easily beats a Welsh third string ?

Always wanting the moral victory.

Not really, should be a walk in the park for England tbh

It will be. Eng by 5-10.

Anyone else keep reading this as Wales v Edward I? Just me then? Carry on ...

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:37 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:06 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 7:05 am
Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Qualifying for Romania, even speaking pretty decent Romanian I think, certainly some, doesn't as such make him Romanian. There are for instance one or two reasons we might reasonably consider him English.

Romania have previously been in touch with him to see if he would be interested, but that wasn't anything he was looking to act on early in his career. Partly he wanted to see where he might end up vis a vis England, and partly not being an EQP as a young player trying to get into a pro squad makes things harder

I think you missed the ;¬)

I don't happen to use emojis, indeed I'd consider their usage reasonable grounds for a death sentence, so to me that displays as semicolon and logic negation as a pairing of symbols, being next to the bracket it just looked like a typo and I paid it no heed.

I love it when Wales are a no ego, nothing expected, no hope side and it is all on fitness, hunger, drive, digging deep and determination.

Wales are shit when their best team rock up, having been much vaunted in the press.. and they think they are the dogs bollocks with nothing to prove.
When they are just a bunch of scrappy little fuckers they are brilliant.

It unfortunately takes them about one and a half years of loses and humiliations, after the lions tour to get there.

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:34 am I love it when Wales are a no ego, nothing expected, no hope side and it is all on fitness, hunger, drive, digging deep and determination.

Wales are shit when their best team rock up, having been much vaunted in the press.. and they think they are the dogs bollocks with nothing to prove.
When they are just a bunch of scrappy little fuckers they are brilliant.

It unfortunately takes them about one and a half years of loses and humiliations, after the lions tour to get there.

You give up your crusade on head injuries in Rugby when Wales start winning. Strange.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 7:51 am

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:34 am I love it when Wales are a no ego, nothing expected, no hope side and it is all on fitness, hunger, drive, digging deep and determination.

Wales are shit when their best team rock up, having been much vaunted in the press.. and they think they are the dogs bollocks with nothing to prove.
When they are just a bunch of scrappy little fuckers they are brilliant.

It unfortunately takes them about one and a half years of loses and humiliations, after the lions tour to get there.

You give up your crusade on head injuries in Rugby when Wales start winning. Strange.

My crusade about head injuries is still ongoing. I have fought and won many debates on this issue.
I just watch rugby now, in the same way a copper looks at certain illegal and disgusting videos.
With revulsion.

I got a ticket for this game for the privilege of being a local resident, for the princely sum of 10 quid. I will be hoping for an evening of many head injuries. All to Steve Borthwick.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:47 am I got a ticket for this game for the privilege of being a local resident, for the princely sum of 10 quid. I will be hoping for an evening of many head injuries. All to Steve Borthwick.

How will you tell

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:59 am

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:47 am I got a ticket for this game for the privilege of being a local resident, for the princely sum of 10 quid. I will be hoping for an evening of many head injuries. All to Steve Borthwick.

How will you tell

The voice is a usually a dead giveaway. Speech sounds laboured, drawn out, monotone and it often sounds like gibberish.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:59 am

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:47 am I got a ticket for this game for the privilege of being a local resident, for the princely sum of 10 quid. I will be hoping for an evening of many head injuries. All to Steve Borthwick.

How will you tell

In his post-match interview he'll sound less like Wearside Jack and more like Brian Sewell.

Has this - through laziness- become the match thread?

looks like it

Settled in with a glass of wine. Think I'll be needing it to get through this "spectacle".

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:33 pm Settled in with a glass of wine. Think I'll be needing it to get through this "spectacle".

Do you have a standby bottle of brandy when the wine ceases to dull the pain ?

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:41 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:33 pm Settled in with a glass of wine. Think I'll be needing it to get through this "spectacle".

Do you have a standby bottle of brandy when the wine ceases to dull the pain ?

Whisky and rum. Need to stay sober enough for a game of rugby later though so it's a tough balancing act.

Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:44 pm Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

Has Farrell been at the pies?

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:44 pm Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

I was thinking of something pithy to say along those lines but to confirm you echoed my thoughts. It's what happens when you have a crowd full of toffs.

Wales already morally won.

Was Earl not offside there?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:47 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:44 pm Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

I was thinking of something pithy to say along those lines but to confirm you echoed my thoughts. It's what happens when you have a crowd full of toffs.

You can hear individual braying. And Itoje

England can't have being too shit if we back to criticism of the atmosphere.

(I actually agree it is shit at Twickenham)

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:50 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:47 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:44 pm Most stadiums had more atmosphere and noise during Covid

I was thinking of something pithy to say along those lines but to confirm you echoed my thoughts. It's what happens when you have a crowd full of toffs.

You can hear individual braying. And Itoje

With a 5pm kickoff, you'd expect half the crowd to be scuttered, but I suppose with the cost of tickets, & the price of pints that isn't happening.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:52 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:50 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 4:47 pm

I was thinking of something pithy to say along those lines but to confirm you echoed my thoughts. It's what happens when you have a crowd full of toffs.

You can hear individual braying. And Itoje

With a 5pm kickoff, you'd expect half the crowd to be scuttered, but I suppose with the cost of tickets, & the price of pints that isn't happening.

They can afford it.

This is very dull.

Loosing the ball in contact a bit of a problem so far.