NPR

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:05 am**

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:02 am
ASMO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:00 am
petej wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:51 am

He is correct.
There is not one rational England supporter who thinks England will win this game, most i would argue think they will lose it by loads.
Might keep it under 20 if we're really lucky

Where have I heard this argument before?

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:13 am**

boere wors wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:30 pm What changes to the team can we expect?! I guess that we will see a 6-2 split, Willie out of the 23, Jasper to start iso Duane, faf starts iso reinach, maybe Pollard to start iso Manie

England are like the Boks, they're a cup team in a rugby world dominated by league format competitions, they've done really well in this competition down the years because it's the only cup competition they play in (the Boks get test series, which are cup like in format with do or die deciding tests and no bonus points). Resting more than two or three against them would risk disaster.

Bongi is our only remaining specialist hooker and looked exhausted against France. I would have him on the bench in case things go badly, but not use him otherwise. Other key players which cannot be replaced are Etzebeth/Kolisi/De Allende/Kolbe, could add more players from Rassie's Stomp squad but the list becomes a bit long. Etzebeth and Kolisi will play, their game time has been managed (both taken off early against Ireland etc). De Allende and Kriel can be replaced by Esterhuizen and Am (they played together at the Sharks), could maybe drop Kolbe for Moodie. That's already probably too many changes.

The key is winning. I'm expecting very minor changes and basically the same side again.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:18 am**

_Os_ wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:13 am
boere wors wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:30 pm What changes to the team can we expect?! I guess that we will see a 6-2 split, Willie out of the 23, Jasper to start iso Duane, faf starts iso reinach, maybe Pollard to start iso Manie
England are like the Boks, they're a cup team in a rugby world dominated by league format competitions, they've done really well in this competition down the years because it's the only cup competition they play in (the Boks get test series, which are cup like in format with do or die deciding tests and no bonus points). Resting more than two or three against them would risk disaster.

Bongi is our only remaining specialist hooker and looked exhausted against France. I would have him on the bench in case things go badly, but not use him otherwise. Other key players which cannot be replaced are Etzebeth/Kolisi/De Allende/Kolbe, could add more players from Rassie's Stomp squad but the list becomes a bit long. Etzebeth and Kolisi will play, their game time has been managed (both taken off early against Ireland etc). De Allende and Kriel can be replaced by Esterhuizen and Am (they played together at the Sharks), could maybe drop Kolbe for Moodie. That's already probably too many changes.

The key is winning. I'm expecting very minor changes and basically the same side again.

Agreed. The backs all looked pretty fresh at the end (except Willie who's form is dreadful). Moodie could be on the bench instead of Le Roux and we could use Kolbe or Arendse at 15 in a crisis.

Regardless same starting 7 backs here for me.

Bongi and Kitshoff both looked tired. Bench. Should Wiese replace Duane? Otherwise we're set.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:30 pm**

I don't get all this nonsense about England being the fresher side. We've only had one game that we won easily - and our last two games have gone down to the wire - the Fiji game was just as tough for England as France were for SA.

And, on top of that, we're not actually very good !!

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:39 pm**

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 2:56 pm**

Both the Mail and Times reporting only change to the starting line up for England likely to be Steward for Smith (out with concussion according to the Times)

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:00 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:54 am
Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:32 am Joel Stransky's gone one better, proclaiming England certain losers regardless of who they select.
Stransky still live in the pre Clive Woodward era.

The disrespect to stransky on this. SA went nearly 10 years without losing to England (06-16). To be accurate I would say Stransky lives in the post Woodward era.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... uth_Africa

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:30 pm**

petej wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:00 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:54 am
Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:32 am Joel Stransky's gone one better, proclaiming England certain losers regardless of who they select.
Stransky still live in the pre Clive Woodward era.
The disrespect to stransky on this. SA went nearly 10 years without losing to England (06-16). To be accurate I would say Stransky lives in the post Woodward era.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... uth_Africa

Stranskis achievements
Records/Honours:

SA Young Player of the Year nominee, 1989
Currie Cup winner with the Sharks, 1990
SA Player of the Year nominee, 1990 & 1995
First Springbok in history to score all four possible ways in a Test, South Africa vs. Australia in Johannesburg May 25, 1995
Member of the World Cup winning Springbok squad, 1995

Played one test vs England 8 November 1995 winning 24-14 with 3 penalties.

Test history:
Date Age Position Opponent Result Score Venue Prov
31 Jul 1993 26 Flyhalf Australia Win: 19-12 Sydney Football Stadium (Aussie stadium), Sydney Sharks
14 Aug 1993 26 Flyhalf Australia Lose: 20-28 1 try, 2 conversions, 2 penalties Ballymore, Brisbane Sharks
21 Aug 1993 26 Flyhalf Australia Lose: 12-19 1 conversion Sydney Football Stadium (Aussie stadium), Sydney Sharks
06 Nov 1993 26 Flyhalf Argentina Win: 29-26 3 conversions, 1 penalty Ferrocarril-Oeste Stadium, Buenos Aires Sharks
08 Oct 1994 27 Flyhalf Argentina Win: 42-22 1 try, 4 conversions, 3 penalties Boet Erasmus, Port Elizabeth WP
15 Oct 1994 27 Flyhalf Argentina Win: 46-26 1 try, 4 conversions, 1 penalty Ellispark, Johannesburg WP
13 Apr 1995 27 Flyhalf Samoa Win: 60-8 1 try, 1 conversion Ellispark, Johannesburg WP
25 May 1995 27 Flyhalf Australia Win: 27-18 1 try, 1 conversion, 4 penalties, 1 dropgoal Newlands, Cape Town WP
30 May 1995 27 Reserve Romania Win: 21-8 Newlands, Cape Town WP
03 Jun 1995 27 Flyhalf Canada Win: 20-0 2 conversions, 2 penalties Boet Erasmus, Port Elizabeth WP
17 Jun 1995 27 Flyhalf France Win: 19-15 1 conversion, 4 penalties Kingspark, Durban WP
24 Jun 1995 27 Flyhalf New Zealand Win: 15-12 3 penalties, 2 dropgoals Ellispark, Johannesburg WP
02 Sep 1995 28 Flyhalf Wales Win: 40-11 3 conversions, 3 penalties Ellispark, Johannesburg WP
12 Nov 1995 28 Flyhalf Italy Win: 40-21 4 conversions, 4 penalties Olympic Stadium, Rome WP
18 Nov 1995 28 Flyhalf England Win: 24-14 3 penalties Twickenham, London WP
02 Jul 1996 28 Reserve Fiji Win: 43-18 Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria WP
20 Jul 1996 29 Flyhalf New Zealand Lose: 11-15 2 penalties Lancaster Park (Jade stadium), Christchurch WP
03 Aug 1996 29 Flyhalf Australia Win: 25-19 1 try, 1 conversion, 6 penalties Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein WP
10 Aug 1996 29 Flyhalf New Zealand Lose: 18-29 1 conversion, 2 penalties Newlands, Cape Town WP
17 Aug 1996 29 Flyhalf New Zealand Lose: 19-23 1 conversion, 4 penalties Kingspark, Durban WP
24 Aug 1996 29 Flyhalf New Zealand Lose: 26-33 1 conversion, 3 penalties Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria WP
31 Aug 1996 29 Reserve New Zealand Win: 32-22 Ellispark, Johannesburg WP

Link:http://www.genslin.us/bokke/sarugby.html

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:47 pm**

Oom, i think you misunderstood my comment. I am accussing you of being disrespectful to Stransky by saying he lives in a prewoodward era, hence pointing out Englands appalling record post woodward. Not Stransky of being disrespectful to England.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:00 pm**

petej wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:47 pm Oom, i think you misunderstood my comment. I am accussing you of being disrespectful to Stransky by saying he lives in a prewoodward era, hence pointing out Englands appalling record post woodward. Not Stransky of being disrespectful to England.

Anyone being disrespectful to Clive Woodward is a good egg in my book.

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:26 pm**

petej wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:47 pm Oom, i think you misunderstood my comment. I am accussing you of being disrespectful to Stransky by saying he lives in a prewoodward era, hence pointing out Englands appalling record post woodward. Not Stransky of being disrespectful to England.

Sorry, my mistake. I mean the Woodward quote before the quarter finals that it will be an all NH semi finals. Stranski should know better to shut his mouth.

(my english need google translate at times)

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:18 pm**

In the least surprising bit of news

Posted: **Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:27 pm**

He still have nightmares about KLA.

Hope the Springboks let Moodie lose on the Poms.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:04 am**

https://www.sarugby.co.za/news-features ... -showdown/

Ok, now that is a surprise again.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:05 am**

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:10 am**

Unchanged team. Totally fine except for Willie imho. There was no real point in having him on the bench against France, and I didn’t think he made an impact when coming on. Would have preferred another forward on the bench, but anyway.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:14 am**

Ok , so we can expect running rugby first up. Closure in the 2nd half.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:18 am**

All the mind games from our coaches, all the talk about changing the team, putting Moodie in the presser… they must be laughing their tits off the whole week for taking the piss on everyone

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:21 am**

boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:10 am Unchanged team. Totally fine except for Willie imho. There was no real point in having him on the bench against France, and I didn’t think he made an impact when coming on. Would have preferred another forward on the bench, but anyway.

I kind of agree, but understand Willie's inclusion. With both Kriel and Willemse in the starting 15, you kind of lose the the flexibility they brought as bench players that could cover multiple positions.

Glad the team stayed the same. Nienaber said in a presser last week that the experiments are done and barring injury, the team for the playoffs is locked in.

In 2019 w also playe dthe same 23 for 3 games in a row, with the exception of Nkosi subbing in for Kolbie in the semifinal due to the injury he sustained against Japan.

It puts the boys in the right headspace I think. If the backup players went into this match I think it would have subconciously affected their preperation and would have sent the message that we weren't taking England or this match seriously.

I feel a lot more comfortable now.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:30 am**

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:21 am
boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:10 am Unchanged team. Totally fine except for Willie imho. There was no real point in having him on the bench against France, and I didn’t think he made an impact when coming on. Would have preferred another forward on the bench, but anyway.
I kind of agree, but understand Willie's inclusion. With both Kriel and Willemse in the starting 15, you kind of lose the the flexibility they brought as bench players that could cover multiple positions.

Glad the team stayed the same. Nienaber said in a presser last week that the experiments are done and barring injury, the team for the playoffs is locked in.

In 2019 w also playe dthe same 23 for 3 games in a row, with the exception of Nkosi subbing in for Kolbie in the semifinal due to the injury he sustained against Japan.

It puts the boys in the right headspace I think. If the backup players went into this match I think it would have subconciously affected their preperation and would have sent the message that we weren't taking England or this match seriously.

I feel a lot more comfortable now.

100% right!

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:32 am**

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:18 pm In the least surprising bit of news

Bit cruel for one of Borthwick's henchmen to cosh him in the tunnel.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:42 am**

boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:10 am Unchanged team. Totally fine except for Willie imho. There was no real point in having him on the bench against France, and I didn’t think he made an impact when coming on. Would have preferred another forward on the bench, but anyway.

Willie is only there on reputation. I think after this RWC he will be put out to pasture.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:55 am**

So we're all agreed, Le Roux will be man of the match.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:04 am**

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:55 am So we're all agreed, Le Roux will be man of the match.

It's the knocks that's driving me crazy.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:15 am**

Willie is a good combination with Pollard in the 10 channel. but vok he is irritating.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:16 am**

handyman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:04 am
_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:55 am So we're all agreed, Le Roux will be man of the match.
It's the knocks that's driving me crazy.

Willie had a very good restart kick chase that caught the french catcher under pressure,
also the unexpected DDA shyte offload bollocks while going sideways was more DDA that Willie. DDA hasn't offloaded in a tackle in 3+ years and that wasn't the time for it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:23 am**

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:16 am
handyman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:04 am
_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:55 am So we're all agreed, Le Roux will be man of the match.
It's the knocks that's driving me crazy.
Willie had a very good restart kick chase that caught the french catcher under pressure,
also the unexpected DDA shyte offload bollocks while going sideways was more DDA that Willie. DDA hasn't offloaded in a tackle in 3+ years and that wasn't the time for it.

Ja, in Willie's defense, we can't really blame him for not expecting a pass from DDA, can we?
He also made a critical one-on-one tackle in the final 2-3 minutes when the French were rampaging down the touchline.
He's net contributions will always be around 5:1...1 fuckup for every 5 positive contributions, where one of those 5 is something magical that leads to a try. It's what you get with Willie and you just have to embrace it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:25 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:15 am Willie is a good combination with Pollard in the 10 channel. but vok he is irritating.

Yep. You need that interplay with Willie coming in at 10 and Pollard dropping to the back on attack, otherwise the the backline just withers. Willie's error rate can be infurating, but there's no deniying the man has extraordinary vision and playmaking ability. We will need him on the pitch as some point and can only hope his mistakes are small ones.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:04 am**

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:16 am
handyman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:04 am
_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:55 am So we're all agreed, Le Roux will be man of the match.
It's the knocks that's driving me crazy.
Willie had a very good restart kick chase that caught the french catcher under pressure,
also the unexpected DDA shyte offload bollocks while going sideways was more DDA that Willie. DDA hasn't offloaded in a tackle in 3+ years and that wasn't the time for it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:06 am**

What was actually wrong with Kitshoff against France? Never seen him like that. Hope he is back to his usual best on Saturday.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:21 am**

Milestones:

It will be Eben Etzebeth’s 11th Test match against England, joining Tendai Mtawarira, John Smit and Joost van der Westhuizen all in second place. Four other Springboks are on a record 12 career caps against England.
The loose trio of Siya Kolisi, Pieter-Steph du Toit and Duane Vermeulen will start as combination for the 15th time, putting them alone in second place on the list behind Francois Louw, Willem Alberts and Vermeulen (17).
Eben Etzebeth and Franco Mostert will move into third place on the list of lock combinations with their 26th start as second row partners, behind Victor Matfield and Bakkies Botha (63), and Etzebeth and Lood de Jager (39).

Miscellaneous:

Handré Pollard has scored seven conversions (second place) in his six appearances against England but holds the record with 19 penalty goals.
Saturday's semi-final is the sixth RWC clash between the Boks and England. South Africa won in the 1999 quarter-final (44-21) in Paris; the pool game (36-0) and final (15-6) in 2007, both in Paris; and the final (32-12) in Yokohama in 2019. England won the pool game in Perth in 2003 (25-6).
Kurt-Lee Arendse starts the match with a full-house of tries, with 13 five-pointers in in 13 Tests to date.
This will be the fourth time the Springboks and England clash in a Rugby World Cup match in Paris, after the playoff in 1999 and two encounters in 2007.
England have scored just one try across their five meetings with South Africa in the RWC – during their 25-6 pool win in 2003.
South Africa (8.0) and England (8.6) have conceded fewer penalties per game than any other sides to have reached the semi-finals of this year’s Rugby World Cup, with only France and Japan (7 each) averaging fewer overall.
The Springbok starting team on Saturday will be the most experienced ever selected for South Africa with a combined total of 895 Test caps - four more than the 891 against Samoa in Birmingham in 2015.
There are 264 caps in the backline, with 631 caps among the forwards. On the bench there are a further 367 caps.
The average caps per player in the backline is 37, the forwards 78, while the players on the bench average 45.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:32 am**

boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:06 am What was actually wrong with Kitshoff against France? Never seen him like that. Hope he is back to his usual best on Saturday.

Yip, he made some uncharacteristic mistakes, was he looking a tad fatigued as well?

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:35 am**

LoveOfTheGame wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:32 am
boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:06 am What was actually wrong with Kitshoff against France? Never seen him like that. Hope he is back to his usual best on Saturday.
Yip, he made some uncharacteristic mistakes, was he looking a tad fatigued as well?

The penalties were pretty early in the match. He and O'Keeffe were just not seeing eye to eye at the breakdown.
I'm sure he'll review it and be better next week. He was quite poor compared to the other Boks, probably the worst forward for us on the day.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:45 am**

If Willemse tries that shit again I will personally fly to France and vok him up.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:47 am**

boere wors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:04 am
Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:16 am
handyman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:04 am

It's the knocks that's driving me crazy.
Willie had a very good restart kick chase that caught the french catcher under pressure,
also the unexpected DDA shyte offload bollocks while going sideways was more DDA that Willie. DDA hasn't offloaded in a tackle in 3+ years and that wasn't the time for it.

noone expects DDA to pass

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:02 am**

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:11 am**

Proper Dad's Army job.

I remember Lancaster being obsessed by having a 15 with 600 test caps before the 15 RW, which was a bit of a stretch at the time for him.

The team above has over 900

Edit - Marler in and Martin starting the surprises there.

Starting the prop pairing that are as mobile as oil tankers, but slightly less likely to getting monstered in the scrum

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:22 am**

Getting nervous
Its going to be wet
Some of our players can probably do wit a rest
England is on the up and has huge motivation outside the usual things, like this is many's last dance, written off, revenge of 2019

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:27 am**

Cartman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:22 am Getting nervous
Its going to be wet

Libbok

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:30 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:27 am
Cartman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:22 am Getting nervous
Its going to be wet
Libbok

Right, we need to send one of our midgets into the Farrell/Manu channel first chance we get
We can beat them with a player down

NPR

RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

Re: RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00