The official NPR Audiophile thread.

[clive]

Waste of money! You'd get the exact same sound from an Amazon Echo. You guys don't know how good these sound. Truly audiophile quality.

Love to play Moterhead, through that set up.

I saw Motorhead on the Overkill, Bomber and Ace of Spades tours. Each time it got louder, by the AoS tour it was just white noise after about ten minutes, followed by tinnitus for several days.

edit, Ted Nugent was pretty loud too - I was 15 and didn't know any better.

Saw them in 2003 I was 15 feet from the PA, it was so loud I could not make out the song, they could have been playing tip toe through the tulips, Great gig though.

[Torquemada 1420]

Waste of money! You'd get the exact same sound from an Amazon Echo. You guys don't know how good these sound. Truly audiophile quality.

[Dismal Pillock]

Yes, they came here..and did precisely that what was expected.
Expressiing their contempt..but we collectively rode it out.

Checked the 1st couple of pages of this thread again, nope, you appear to have imagined the whole thing. It's like you wanted snobby audiophiles to rock up so you could rail at them, then they didnt, then you just decided to imagine they did anyway.

[Raggs]

Ignoring the bitch fight.

Just bought a 2nd hand Denon avr 1909 receiver. And now looking at 5.1 speaker setups. May be able to get 6 B&W VM1's plus a sub woofer of currently unknown brand, for less than £150, which seems like a steal. Far more oomph than what I really need right now, but hoping to enjoy it. Just wish that amazon would start supporting 5.1 sound through their browser stream :(.

[Sandstorm]

Ignoring the bitch fight.

Just bought a 2nd hand Denon avr 1909 receiver. And now looking at 5.1 speaker setups. May be able to get 6 B&W VM1's plus a sub woofer of currently unknown brand, for less than £150, which seems like a steal. Far more oomph than what I really need right now, but hoping to enjoy it. Just wish that amazon would start supporting 5.1 sound through their browser stream :(.

Should sound great with those speakers. Amazon through Pro Logic 5.1 still sound's nice.

[Raggs]

Ignoring the bitch fight.

Just bought a 2nd hand Denon avr 1909 receiver. And now looking at 5.1 speaker setups. May be able to get 6 B&W VM1's plus a sub woofer of currently unknown brand, for less than £150, which seems like a steal. Far more oomph than what I really need right now, but hoping to enjoy it. Just wish that amazon would start supporting 5.1 sound through their browser stream :(.

Should sound great with those speakers. Amazon through Pro Logic 5.1 still sound's nice.

I'm in an awful room for acoustics, so hoping the auto-setup system can help with that a bit (seems to be a pain though). Maybe in another 6-12 months I may have somewhere a bit more suitable. Get the feeling I'm running before I've learned to walk here, but ah well :D.

I also now need to work out how I can play sound through my PC, whilst streaming to my quest 2. Have a real cinema experience.

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm in an awful room for acoustics, so hoping the auto-setup system can help with that a bit (seems to be a pain though). Maybe in another 6-12 months I may have somewhere a bit more suitable. Get the feeling I'm running before I've learned to walk here, but ah well :D.

I also now need to work out how I can play sound through my PC, whilst streaming to my quest 2. Have a real cinema experience.

Room acoustics is a nightmare subject. And that's just with 2 speakers! With multiple ones, the complexity of constructive/destructive interference just goes up exponentially. You'll be doing a lot of experimenting.

[Raggs]

I'm in an awful room for acoustics, so hoping the auto-setup system can help with that a bit (seems to be a pain though). Maybe in another 6-12 months I may have somewhere a bit more suitable. Get the feeling I'm running before I've learned to walk here, but ah well :D.

I also now need to work out how I can play sound through my PC, whilst streaming to my quest 2. Have a real cinema experience.

Room acoustics is a nightmare subject. And that's just with 2 speakers! With multiple ones, the complexity of constructive/destructive interference just goes up exponentially. You'll be doing a lot of experimenting.

That's what the auto-setup mic is for :D. Made sure it's included with the receiver too.

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm in an awful room for acoustics, so hoping the auto-setup system can help with that a bit (seems to be a pain though). Maybe in another 6-12 months I may have somewhere a bit more suitable. Get the feeling I'm running before I've learned to walk here, but ah well :D.

I also now need to work out how I can play sound through my PC, whilst streaming to my quest 2. Have a real cinema experience.

Room acoustics is a nightmare subject. And that's just with 2 speakers! With multiple ones, the complexity of constructive/destructive interference just goes up exponentially. You'll be doing a lot of experimenting.

That's what the auto-setup mic is for :D. Made sure it's included with the receiver too.

Be interested in your results. Never been convinced this works although I know some people who use them in studios. For me, there are too many variables
1) The quality of the mic. And do you really need omni-directional?
2) The quality of the software and how well that pairs with the mic.
3) Whether 1 and 2 really have the capability of meaningful results in a complex listening environment: a studio doesn't have windows, carpets and bits of furniture scattered
4) Where the speakers are positioned and can be positioned
5) The amount of sampling points you need in order to get an acceptable data set
6) How adjustable the speaker output is from the amp and how well you can map the resultant data to the amp
7) The presumption that all frequency and amplitude optimums will be concurrent: I reckon it will be a compromise which will then come down to hearing taste
8) There may well be only one optimal position in the room and it's bound to be where the cat sleeps

[Raggs]

Room acoustics is a nightmare subject. And that's just with 2 speakers! With multiple ones, the complexity of constructive/destructive interference just goes up exponentially. You'll be doing a lot of experimenting.

That's what the auto-setup mic is for :D. Made sure it's included with the receiver too.

Be interested in your results. Never been convinced this works although I know some people who use them in studios. For me, there are too many variables
1) The quality of the mic. And do you really need omni-directional?
2) The quality of the software and how well that pairs with the mic.
3) Whether 1 and 2 really have the capability of meaningful results in a complex listening environment: a studio doesn't have windows, carpets and bits of furniture scattered
4) Where the speakers are positioned and can be positioned
5) The amount of sampling points you need in order to get an acceptable data set
6) How adjustable the speaker output is from the amp and how well you can map the result data to the amp
7) The presumption that all frequency and amplitude optimums will be concurrent: I reckon it will be a compromise which will then come down to hearing taste
8) There may well be only one optimal position in the room and it's bound to be where the cat sleeps

1. It's the mic that comes with the receiver, receiver was released in 2008 I believe, and was £500 new. I've seen the mic itself selling for £30 second hand, so to get the whole package for £42 is seeming a steal.
2. It's the official mic so have to assume it works fine together.
3. The setup in the manual shows a living room environment, not a studio.
4. From what I understand it individually assesses each speaker, testing volume, range, etc.
5. I believe it has 5 points, starting with your primary sitting point. Not going to be able to easily move around that much myself, since the room is really small.
6. Seem to be able to set everything, and it's an automatic process anyway, so I don't have to map the results to the amp, it's the amp doing it automatically.
7. I believe you can setup personal preference after, the setup is to ensure that there's the least amount of interference, correct volumes, overlap with sub vs speakers etc.
8. The cat doesn't come in here, when there was a dog, he did, and he did like to sleep in front of the sub woofer when he could, but he was stone deaf anyway.

[Torquemada 1420]

8. The cat doesn't come in here, when there was a dog, he did, and he did like to sleep in front of the sub woofer when he could, but he was stone deaf anyway.

I see what you did here.

[Raggs]

8. The cat doesn't come in here, when there was a dog, he did, and he did like to sleep in front of the sub woofer when he could, but he was stone deaf anyway.

I see what you did here.

It wasn't deliberate, but I see it now :D!

Going to have an interesting time setting all this up anyway...

Also trying to work out how I can get disney+ and amazon prime to play 5.1 audio on my PC, so far I think I've found a way, it's just problematic, I'll keep trying though!

[Sandstorm]

Auto-setup is just a starting point. And it’s never flawless. You still need to test and trust your ears, then do final tweaks yourself.

If you have an odd shaped room, my advice is to concentrate on centre speaker placement and keep the rears volume low. The fronts and sub will work themselves out.

[Raggs]

Auto-setup is just a starting point. And it’s never flawless. You still need to test and trust your ears, then do final tweaks yourself.

If you have an odd shaped room, my advice is to concentrate on centre speaker placement and keep the rears volume low. The fronts and sub will work themselves out.

I'm sure, however my thoughts were to use the auto-setup to get started, then use my PC software to make far quicker and easier adjustments after :D.

[Sandstorm]

Auto-setup is just a starting point. And it’s never flawless. You still need to test and trust your ears, then do final tweaks yourself.

If you have an odd shaped room, my advice is to concentrate on centre speaker placement and keep the rears volume low. The fronts and sub will work themselves out.

I'm sure, however my thoughts were to use the auto-setup to get started, then use my PC software to make far quicker and easier adjustments after :D.

Mate, use your ears. They're what you'll use when you put on Frozen 2 for the 477th time.

[Raggs]

Auto-setup is just a starting point. And it’s never flawless. You still need to test and trust your ears, then do final tweaks yourself.

If you have an odd shaped room, my advice is to concentrate on centre speaker placement and keep the rears volume low. The fronts and sub will work themselves out.

I'm sure, however my thoughts were to use the auto-setup to get started, then use my PC software to make far quicker and easier adjustments after :D.

Mate, use your ears. They're what you'll use when you put on Frozen 2 for the 477th time.

What do you think I'm going to use for the PC software adjustments after?

I've never seen Frozen 2, is it any good?

[Raggs]

Right, the receiver arrived today. It's bloody huge! Managed to get it under my desk on a crate to keep it off the floor. Wired in my front and centre speakers, and used the optical cable to connect to the computer, whilst I wait on RCA splitters to do direct channel. Also waiting on actually getting a 5.1 speaker setup, but we'll get there eventually. Relieved not to need to use headphones any more.

[tabascoboy]

Right, the receiver arrived today. It's bloody huge! Managed to get it under my desk on a crate to keep it off the floor. Wired in my front and centre speakers, and used the optical cable to connect to the computer, whilst I wait on RCA splitters to do direct channel. Also waiting on actually getting a 5.1 speaker setup, but we'll get there eventually. Relieved not to need to use headphones any more.

Well since it has to accommodate about 21000 sockets...

[Raggs]

Right, the receiver arrived today. It's bloody huge! Managed to get it under my desk on a crate to keep it off the floor. Wired in my front and centre speakers, and used the optical cable to connect to the computer, whilst I wait on RCA splitters to do direct channel. Also waiting on actually getting a 5.1 speaker setup, but we'll get there eventually. Relieved not to need to use headphones any more.

Well since it has to accommodate about 21000 sockets...

Oh yeah, I knew that, it's still bigger than I was expecting, even knowing what the back looked like :D.

[Ovals]

I'm not an audiophile - but I have some doubts that top end hifi systems can be recreated via a modelling amp. They are successfuly used for modelling guitar amps but;

1. The better modelling systems are not that cheap - A Kemper is around £1500.
2. Guitar amps are LowFi - what is actually modelled is nothing like HiFi - it's almost the flaws of original amps that Guitarists want to recreate !!
3. No one has yet produced a HiFi modelling processor - which suggests it isn't as simple as Refry believes.
4. Speakers - despite the amazing advances in getting fantastic sound from small speakers - you still can't beat a big speaker that moves significant volumes of air.


My most expensive sound systems are probably in our cars. My Audi has a B&O system and my wife's Range Rover has a Meridian system that is fantastic. We really notice the downgrade when we use our VW Campervan and its' crappy sound system - I suspect a speaker upgrade would improve that radically.

We have a Denon 7.2 AV system with Kef speakers in our Lounge - so, pretty decent but not audiophile level.

I mostly use our Naim Muso2 for listening to music. We tried out quite a few 'similar' systems but even Mrs Ovals could tell the difference between the (more expenisve) Naim and the others.

A friend of ours has a Naim system with top end speakers, that cost around £10K. It does sound brilliant - but not so brilliant that it would tempt me to part with that sort of dosh for the marginal benefit - even if I had a location that would suit it.

[Tichtheid]

2. Guitar amps are LowFi - what is actually modelled is nothing like HiFi - it's almost the flaws of original amps that Guitarists want to recreate !!

It's 35 years or more since I studied electronics and I hated the subject, so I might be using the terminology inaccurately, but there is a harmonic distortion caused when valves are overdriven and begin clipping, it's a pleasing-to-the-ear distortion, it's a "smooth" sound, not harsh at all.

Similarly that is the "warmth" people talk about with vinyl playback, it's warmth that comes from the inherent distortion from LP records. Digital playback systems sound punchy and clean, certainly the discs don't get damaged so easily and there is no contact noise to be amplified up through from the disc to the speakers.

A friend of ours has a Naim system with top end speakers, that cost around £10K. It does sound brilliant - but not so brilliant that it would tempt me to part with that sort of dosh for the marginal benefit - even if I had a location that would suit it.

I have a mate with a top end Linn set up, LP12 with all the gubbins, preamp and active speakers, it really is something, but I don't think I'd bother unless the cost of it was like spare change.

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm not an audiophile - but I have some doubts that top end hifi systems can be recreated via a modelling amp. They are successfuly used for modelling guitar amps but;

1. The better modelling systems are not that cheap - A Kemper is around £1500.
2. Guitar amps are LowFi - what is actually modelled is nothing like HiFi - it's almost the flaws of original amps that Guitarists want to recreate !!
3. No one has yet produced a HiFi modelling processor - which suggests it isn't as simple as Refry believes.
4. Speakers - despite the amazing advances in getting fantastic sound from small speakers - you still can't beat a big speaker that moves significant volumes of air.


My most expensive sound systems are probably in our cars. My Audi has a B&O system and my wife's Range Rover has a Meridian system that is fantastic. We really notice the downgrade when we use our VW Campervan and its' crappy sound system - I suspect a speaker upgrade would improve that radically.

We have a Denon 7.2 AV system with Kef speakers in our Lounge - so, pretty decent but not audiophile level.

I mostly use our Naim Muso2 for listening to music. We tried out quite a few 'similar' systems but even Mrs Ovals could tell the difference between the (more expenisve) Naim and the others.

A friend of ours has a Naim system with top end speakers, that cost around £10K. It does sound brilliant - but not so brilliant that it would tempt me to part with that sort of dosh for the marginal benefit - even if I had a location that would suit it.

Yup. All of 1 to 4.

On last point. Yes. See ^^^^. As I repeatedly tell people, the more you spend, the more you are into diminishing returns just as you are with any commodity (car, wine, gf). It all comes down to personal preference, desire and wallet [/Globus].

Ironic really that cars are probably the worst listening environments anyone could routinely encounter. So much so, that I've never really cared what was in my car as long as I can hear it clearly and it functions well enough e.g. has DAB and SD card.

[Ovals]

2. Guitar amps are LowFi - what is actually modelled is nothing like HiFi - it's almost the flaws of original amps that Guitarists want to recreate !!

It's 35 years or more since I studied electronics and I hated the subject, so I might be using the terminology inaccurately, but there is a harmonic distortion caused when valves are overdriven and begin clipping, it's a pleasing-to-the-ear distortion, it's a "smooth" sound, not harsh at all.

Similarly that is the "warmth" people talk about with vinyl playback, it's warmth that comes from the inherent distortion from LP records. Digital playback systems sound punchy and clean, certainly the discs don't get damaged so easily and there is no contact noise to be amplified up through from the disc to the speakers.

A friend of ours has a Naim system with top end speakers, that cost around £10K. It does sound brilliant - but not so brilliant that it would tempt me to part with that sort of dosh for the marginal benefit - even if I had a location that would suit it.

I have a mate with a top end Linn set up, LP12 with all the gubbins, preamp and active speakers, it really is something, but I don't think I'd bother unless the cost of it was like spare change.

It's been even more than 35 years since I studied electronics - but wouldn't it mainly be amplitude distortion, rather than harmonic - it's the clipping of the tops of the waveforms......

The distortion of early amps, so loved by guitarists, was largely due to the low fidelity of their equipment. Ironic that we now spend so much money to reproduce the sounds produced by 'poor quality' gear.

[Ovals]

I'm not an audiophile - but I have some doubts that top end hifi systems can be recreated via a modelling amp. They are successfuly used for modelling guitar amps but;

1. The better modelling systems are not that cheap - A Kemper is around £1500.
2. Guitar amps are LowFi - what is actually modelled is nothing like HiFi - it's almost the flaws of original amps that Guitarists want to recreate !!
3. No one has yet produced a HiFi modelling processor - which suggests it isn't as simple as Refry believes.
4. Speakers - despite the amazing advances in getting fantastic sound from small speakers - you still can't beat a big speaker that moves significant volumes of air.


My most expensive sound systems are probably in our cars. My Audi has a B&O system and my wife's Range Rover has a Meridian system that is fantastic. We really notice the downgrade when we use our VW Campervan and its' crappy sound system - I suspect a speaker upgrade would improve that radically.

We have a Denon 7.2 AV system with Kef speakers in our Lounge - so, pretty decent but not audiophile level.

I mostly use our Naim Muso2 for listening to music. We tried out quite a few 'similar' systems but even Mrs Ovals could tell the difference between the (more expenisve) Naim and the others.

A friend of ours has a Naim system with top end speakers, that cost around £10K. It does sound brilliant - but not so brilliant that it would tempt me to part with that sort of dosh for the marginal benefit - even if I had a location that would suit it.

Yup. All of 1 to 4.

On last point. Yes. See ^^^^. As I repeatedly tell people, the more you spend, the more you are into diminishing returns just as you are with any commodity (car, wine, gf). It all comes down to personal preference, desire and wallet [/Globus].

Ironic really that cars are probably the worst listening environments anyone could routinely encounter. So much so, that I've never really cared what was in my car as long as I can hear it clearly and it functions well enough e.g. has DAB and SD card.

I'm the opposite - In normal circumstances I listen to more music in the car, than anywhere else. And, often, I don't have to worry about annoying anyone by turning it up a few notches. So I'm invariably prepared to spend a bit more on the audio system in the car. And, in a good quality, modern car, the listening environment isn't at all bad.

The main problem with the system in my campervan - which is noisier than our cars - is that the sound gets quite harsh when you turn it up a bit - which you have to. It sounds fine at low volumes - but that's not adequate once you start working the motor a bit. Time to research some speaker upgrades, ready for the summer.

[Sandstorm]

The main problem with the system in my campervan - which is noisier than our cars - is that the sound gets quite harsh when you turn it up a bit - which you have to. It sounds fine at low volumes - but that's not adequate once you start working the motor a bit. Time to research some speaker upgrades, ready for the summer.

You need an amplifier upgrade first, then look at some speakers.

[Ovals]

The main problem with the system in my campervan - which is noisier than our cars - is that the sound gets quite harsh when you turn it up a bit - which you have to. It sounds fine at low volumes - but that's not adequate once you start working the motor a bit. Time to research some speaker upgrades, ready for the summer.

You need an amplifier upgrade first, then look at some speakers.

I've been checking on the T6 forum - a speaker upgrade (with additional sound insulation in the doors) appears the way to go to get the best bang for the bucks, at least as a first stage. I'll probably get some advice from AbsoluT5 who are specialists in upgrading Transporter audio. I may also look at a new head unit at some point - maybe next Xmas. I've really spent far too much on the Campervan already. Ah well, you can't take it with you...........

[Sandstorm]

Garbage in, garbage out. Head-unit, then amplifier, speakers, environment upgrade last.

[Ovals]

Garbage in, garbage out. Head-unit, then amplifier, speakers, environment upgrade last.

Depends on what the limiting factor is. In this case, it's the speakers. Hence, speakers 1st and whilst doing them, makes sense to do the sound insulation in the doors. Changing the head unit would have almost no benefit with the existing speakers.

[Sandstorm]

Garbage in, garbage out. Head-unit, then amplifier, speakers, environment upgrade last.

Depends on what the limiting factor is. In this case, it's the speakers. Hence, speakers 1st and whilst doing them, makes sense to do the sound insulation in the doors. Changing the head unit would have almost no benefit with the existing speakers.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Garbage in, garbage out. Head-unit, then amplifier, speakers, environment upgrade last.

The opposite of this!

[Torquemada 1420]

The main problem with the system in my campervan - which is noisier than our cars - is that the sound gets quite harsh when you turn it up a bit - which you have to. It sounds fine at low volumes - but that's not adequate once you start working the motor a bit. Time to research some speaker upgrades, ready for the summer.

There will be several reasons for that but the main ones are
a) It's a much larger space and so you are right, more power and better speakers are needed.
b) Because the current ones need to be cranked beyond acceptable listening capabilities to be heard.
Catch 22!

[Torquemada 1420]

Garbage in, garbage out. Head-unit, then amplifier, speakers, environment upgrade last.

Depends on what the limiting factor is. In this case, it's the speakers. Hence, speakers 1st and whilst doing them, makes sense to do the sound insulation in the doors. Changing the head unit would have almost no benefit with the existing speakers.

Agree ^^

Needs concurrent improvement in amplification and speaker capabilities. I doubt fiddling with the environment will help at all: the biggest culprits will be the glass!

[clive]

I like 24 96 downloads, SACD Blu ray Audio and DVDA playback, Dolby Atmos is very good as well.
You don't have to spend a fortune to get audiophile standard equipment, I would say 1500 to 2 grand will get you A good amp speakers and a DAC, Apple Mac mini for playback through Audirvana software and there you go.

[Line6 HXFX]

You can get 3 months of deezer for free on a trial now.
Their HD audio streams are very good.

I seem to be going from one 3 month free trail to another.

[clive]

You can get 3 months of deezer for free on a trial now.
Their HD audio streams are very good.

I seem to be going from one 3 month free trail to another.

Thanks will try that one out.

[Mileendmikey]

We’ve just moved house and I’ve finally got somewhere to display and play my vinyl collection. I’ve also set up a cheap as chips streamer using a raspberry pi and a second hand dac for about £150 all up,
feeding into my vintage Cyrus amp. Sounds amazing for next to no money

[Mileendmikey]

We’ve just moved house and I’ve finally got somewhere to display and play my vinyl collection. I’ve also set up a cheap as chips streamer using a raspberry pi and a second hand dac for about £150 all up,
feeding into my vintage Cyrus amp. Sounds amazing for next to no money

[Sandstorm]

Bit of an echo in your system, probably wise to check the phase of your speaker cables.

[laurent]

Bit of an echo in your system, probably wise to check the phase of your speaker cables.

Monster cables here ;)

[Insane_Homer]

Many moons ago (~20 years) I had a really nice TEAC amp and 3 CD player with Mission M70 speakers setup and it was great. Then kids arrived and at some point a friend's little shit stuck his grubby little fingers into both dome tweeters and the system ended up in the garage when we moved house and eventually got recycled.

So picked up a Pro-ject T1 BT (bluetooth) turntable back in ~July, intitally to see if the bug would bite. Only had it connected to Bose Bluebooth speaker (which sounds suprising good even for it size and bluetooth compression) and Bose headphones. Needless to say, LP collection has grown rather quickly!

I was then looking at a ton of options,
My orignal plan was to go all Pro-ject with MAIA S3 Amp and the Box 5 S2 speaker bundled set, but it didn't have HDMI arc/earc as I wanted to pump the new LG TV through it and keep it simple on the remote for the wife to turn off/on.

Then looked at the Wiim Ultra paired with Fosi Audio V3 Mono Power Amplifiers (2) [no frills beast amps with very good reviews] (2) ~£650

But for a very similar price I could go tried and trusted with all the bells and whistles with the Marantz Cinema 70S, which does all the shit, gives all the options and leaves plenty of room to add/upgrade later. (5.2, 7.1 dual sub) and most importanly has come down in price. Initital launch was £1000 plus but can now be had for a very reasonable £679 (and 6 years warranty through Richer Sounds).

Added bonus the turntable has it's own phono stage, so will have a choice of using that or the one in the Marantz, I suspect the Pro-ject phono might edge it... time will tell.

Next was the speaker pairing, in the end opted for the investement in the Pro-jectBox 5 S2 which come very highly reviewed.

Next will be to get a decent Sub Woofer.

Possible next plan it then to add the Fosi Audio V3 Mono power amps to the setup.

Also dug out all the old CDs which have been gathering dust for some time and will be maticulously ripping them to flac for streaming to Marantz (streaming server suggestions welcome, currently going with Plex as I've used it before for movies).

Just got the call that they're ready for collection

So collecting the Marantz and S2's tomorrow