Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:03 pm
The 36-man Rugby Championship squad will be named at 3pm.
Scooter had surgery on a finger after the Fiji test and will miss the first couple of rounds, at least. Ardie is likely to be the captain in the meantime.
Just shaken off my second bout of Covid. I'm ready to step up if the call comes.
Thank God, was a bit worried about our stocks
Anyone else think they have seriously fracked up the Rugby Championship match schedule:
NZ vs Argentina Rd 1
NZ vs Argentina Rd 2
South Africa vs NZ Rd 3
South Africa vs NZ Rd 4
Oz vs NZ Rd 5
NZ vs Oz Rd 6
So the only home and away NZ plays is against Australia
Seriously who thinks up this shite and thinks the public are going to pack the stadiums. Early prediction, Bokke to win the RC at a canter, NZ to retain the Bled, wonder if the English football is starting soon, oh yes it is, next week - might have some clashes with the NPC though
They should have a final between the two top teams played at a neutral venue as a promotion for the sport, and proper home and away fixtures.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:01 am
by Gumboot
Jethro wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:13 pmSeriously who thinks up this shite and thinks the public are going to pack the stadiums. Early prediction, Bokke to win the RC at a canter, NZ to retain the Bled, wonder if the English football is starting soon, oh yes it is, next week - might have some clashes with the NPC though
No schedule clashes, thankfully. NPC games on test days finish early to avoid that happening, which has the added benefit of more afternoon domestic footy here in NZ.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 5:14 am
by Gumboot
Ardie's been confirmed as captain for the two tests against Argentina in Scooter's absence.
Harry Plummer has been called in as cover for Stephen Perofeta, who has "a bit of a niggle".
So does Will Jordan come straight in at 15, with Beaudie resuming his super-sub role? And has Razor decided that Reece is our nailed on 14, given he's started him there in 3 straight tests?
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 5:22 am
by Guy Smiley
I reckon they'll start with DMac and BB in the 10-15 axis, bleeding Jordan in slowly from the bench. He's had a lot of time out. They might go the other way with BB on the bench with Plummer.
edit... surely Reece's spot is a no brainer? His work ethic is excellent and the theme is multi functionality is players, his ability to go to the base of the ruck and stand in as half back surely works in his favour.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 12:29 pm
by Torquemada 1420
Bring back Foster...?
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:08 pm
by Enzedder
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2024 12:29 pm
Bring back Foster...?
Not seen the game but the reports in France suggested too much by way of wild errors and that clip is definitely such.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 10:30 am
by Guy Smiley
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:30 am
Not seen the game but the reports in France suggested too much by way of wild errors and that clip is definitely such.
That was late in the game and ended up with Argentina scoring off the next play. It was far and away the worst error of the game. The were others but nothing as clownshow as that... in the first 1/4 of the game, they had two kickable penalties that they turned down in favour of a lineout. They failed both of those attempts, so you could say they were errors. Perenara was charged twice lumbering himself into position for a box kick, that was frustrating.
There were lots of little compounding errors that proved costly, as opposed to lots of wild errors. There's clearly some rustiness to their play but on top of that seems to be some confusion over getting new systems into place. New coach, new ways, same old players... that can be messy. I think the over riding failure seems to have been a lack of on field leadership when it counted.. that clip I posted is perplexing. The ball is won by Blackadder, Ardie the captain and #8 retrieves it with the halfback right on his shoulder but decides to throw a pass that while a bit loose was definitely playable and MacKenzie decides to then throw a pass to clear space. That smacks of players trying to do too much when calmer heads could have settled, gone to contact and reset the play. Fuck, they'd won the damned lineout. They had the ball where they needed it, at halfway.
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:30 am
Not seen the game but the reports in France suggested too much by way of wild errors and that clip is definitely such.
That was late in the game and ended up with Argentina scoring off the next play. It was far and away the worst error of the game. The were others but nothing as clownshow as that... in the first 1/4 of the game, they had two kickable penalties that they turned down in favour of a lineout. They failed both of those attempts, so you could say they were errors. Perenara was charged twice lumbering himself into position for a box kick, that was frustrating.
There were lots of little compounding errors that proved costly, as opposed to lots of wild errors. There's clearly some rustiness to their play but on top of that seems to be some confusion over getting new systems into place. New coach, new ways, same old players... that can be messy. I think the over riding failure seems to have been a lack of on field leadership when it counted.. that clip I posted is perplexing. The ball is won by Blackadder, Ardie the captain and #8 retrieves it with the halfback right on his shoulder but decides to throw a pass that while a bit loose was definitely playable and MacKenzie decides to then throw a pass to clear space. That smacks of players trying to do too much when calmer heads could have settled, gone to contact and reset the play. Fuck, they'd won the damned lineout. They had the ball where they needed it, at halfway.
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:30 am
Not seen the game but the reports in France suggested too much by way of wild errors and that clip is definitely such.
That was late in the game and ended up with Argentina scoring off the next play. It was far and away the worst error of the game. The were others but nothing as clownshow as that... in the first 1/4 of the game, they had two kickable penalties that they turned down in favour of a lineout. They failed both of those attempts, so you could say they were errors. Perenara was charged twice lumbering himself into position for a box kick, that was frustrating.
There were lots of little compounding errors that proved costly, as opposed to lots of wild errors. There's clearly some rustiness to their play but on top of that seems to be some confusion over getting new systems into place. New coach, new ways, same old players... that can be messy. I think the over riding failure seems to have been a lack of on field leadership when it counted.. that clip I posted is perplexing. The ball is won by Blackadder, Ardie the captain and #8 retrieves it with the halfback right on his shoulder but decides to throw a pass that while a bit loose was definitely playable and MacKenzie decides to then throw a pass to clear space. That smacks of players trying to do too much when calmer heads could have settled, gone to contact and reset the play. Fuck, they'd won the damned lineout. They had the ball where they needed it, at halfway.
Actually, just fuck.
To cap it off, I expected Rieko to throw it into the crowd...
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 am
by Gumboot
So a loss and a win against the Pumas, and now it's off to South Africa for the next stage of The Rugby Championship.
Scott Barrett's finger is fully mended and he'll lead the tour, but there are doubts over the fitness of Tuipulotu, Jacobson and de Groot, with a call on them to be made on Wednesday.
We probably have enough cover at lock and loosie now, but I wonder if they'll bring in another loosehead if de Groot misses the trip. I also wonder if Tamaiti Williams should now be our starting no.1 regardless of de Groot's fitness. Jeez, he was impressive last night.
Obviously hoping for 2 wins in the Republic, but realistically I'll be pretty happy if we can come home with one win over the imperious Bokke.
Bring it!
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 7:30 am
by Flockwitt
A win would be fine. It’ll be tough.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 7:35 am
by Guy Smiley
I thought I'd let this settle after last night before posting and chatted with a mate at work about it today...
among my personal and completely subjective arguments about the team and tactics is one disturbing theme... over the last 5 years or so we've seen the ABs show up and get shown up too many times. Teams getting bossed off the ball, out muscled by the same qualities they have employed so consistently and well.
We've seen them mount impressive fightbacks when backed up against the wall... Jo'burg last year and at the RWC, then last night after last week.
It's not good enough. Whatever the rot is, or soft caramel centre, Razor will want to root that out and fuck it off.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:58 am
by OomStruisbaai
Gumboot wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 am
So a loss and a win against the Pumas, and now it's off to South Africa for the next stage of The Rugby Championship.
Scott Barrett's finger is fully mended and he'll lead the tour, but there are doubts over the fitness of Tuipulotu, Jacobson and de Groot, with a call on them to be made on Wednesday.
We probably have enough cover at lock and loosie now, but I wonder if they'll bring in another loosehead if de Groot misses the trip. I also wonder if Tamaiti Williams should now be our starting no.1 regardless of de Groot's fitness. Jeez, he was impressive last night.
Obviously hoping for 2 wins in the Republic, but realistically I'll be pretty happy if we can come home with one win over the imperious Bokke.
Bring it!
All Blacks are the big favorites
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:59 am
by Gumboot
OomStruisbaai wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:58 amAll Blacks are the big favorites
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 10:04 am
by Flockwitt
Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 7:35 am
I thought I'd let this settle after last night before posting and chatted with a mate at work about it today...
among my personal and completely subjective arguments about the team and tactics is one disturbing theme... over the last 5 years or so we've seen the ABs show up and get shown up too many times. Teams getting bossed off the ball, out muscled by the same qualities they have employed so consistently and well.
We've seen them mount impressive fightbacks when backed up against the wall... Jo'burg last year and at the RWC, then last night after last week.
It's not good enough. Whatever the rot is, or soft caramel centre, Razor will want to root that out and fuck it off.
Yeah/nah. Unfortunately I can't agree. Global professionalism has caught up with the ABs. The days of the team having nearly double figures of players who'd walk in the best XV in the world for their position are over. The margins as every coach has now stated at the top level are razor thin. A few % off your game and you're toast, and you are not going to get it right every time and/or the opposition is going to which you have to respect. The ABs in full flight are still one of the best sights possible to see in rugby and for 50 minutes we got that last night. I'll be happy with that... but not expect it week in week out. It simply won't happen, the opposition now is too good relatively.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:41 pm
by Guy Smiley
Totally agree regarding the quality of the opposition and I get a mixture of excitement and dread over the lift in intensity that comes with that. I'm happy to see the sport improving and becoming less a matter of one team being overwhelming favourite...
but my misgivings about the ABs is less related to external factors and more about internal dynamics and application. I take your point about that fine margin between a win and a loss that can blow out easily and be a substantial loss. That can exaggerate differences and / or individual performances, for sure... and being emotional creatures, our perceptions can be coloured as a result. What I'm driving at is my perception that there is some sort of complacency present within this group of players. The last two tests are a perfect example... we know Argentina can run hot and cold but for the ABs to return such a wide gap in performance over consecutive games bothers me.
This ties into a post I put up a while back quoting a passage from Sam Whitlock's book where he talks of being blindsided by the player driven approach to Mark Robinson last year in South Africa that led to the clumsy and messy retention of Fozzie's job after a series of poor results some would call disastrous while looking fearfully skywards. Whitelock was a senior player and surely part of the 'leadership group', yet he mentions being blindsided by the move. My read of that is disunity. Something isn't quite right within the group... who is leading who?
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 pm
by Sandstorm
It’s not the coach. In a country with some of the most embarrassing haircuts this decade, Razor’s greasy mop is not inspirational.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 6:01 pm
by Guy Smiley
Sandstorm wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 pm
It’s not the coach. In a country with some of the most embarrassing haircuts this decade, Razor’s greasy mop is not inspirational.
It's not the coach, but it is the coach because of his hair?
Sandstorm wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 pm
It’s not the coach. In a country with some of the most embarrassing haircuts this decade, Razor’s greasy mop is not inspirational.
It's not the coach, but it is the coach because of his hair?
He’s a fantastic coach, he proved it at the Sader’s when he had normal hair. His players followed him into hell. But in 2024……he’s not that guy any more. And I think it’s his haircut.
Sandstorm wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 pm
It’s not the coach. In a country with some of the most embarrassing haircuts this decade, Razor’s greasy mop is not inspirational.
It's not the coach, but it is the coach because of his hair?
He’s a fantastic coach, he proved it at the Sader’s when he had normal hair. His players followed him into hell. But in 2024……he’s not that guy any more. And I think it’s his haircut.
Fosters haircut?
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2024 7:18 pm
by Grandpa
Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:41 pm
Totally agree regarding the quality of the opposition and I get a mixture of excitement and dread over the lift in intensity that comes with that. I'm happy to see the sport improving and becoming less a matter of one team being overwhelming favourite...
but my misgivings about the ABs is less related to external factors and more about internal dynamics and application. I take your point about that fine margin between a win and a loss that can blow out easily and be a substantial loss. That can exaggerate differences and / or individual performances, for sure... and being emotional creatures, our perceptions can be coloured as a result. What I'm driving at is my perception that there is some sort of complacency present within this group of players. The last two tests are a perfect example... we know Argentina can run hot and cold but for the ABs to return such a wide gap in performance over consecutive games bothers me.
This ties into a post I put up a while back quoting a passage from Sam Whitlock's book where he talks of being blindsided by the player driven approach to Mark Robinson last year in South Africa that led to the clumsy and messy retention of Fozzie's job after a series of poor results some would call disastrous while looking fearfully skywards. Whitelock was a senior player and surely part of the 'leadership group', yet he mentions being blindsided by the move. My read of that is disunity. Something isn't quite right within the group... who is leading who?
Has the 2010 to 2015 messed with our expectations? That team could play poorly and then somehow in the last 20 minutes recover from a 20 point deficit to win.. even against top sides like SA, Ireland and Australia at the time. But prior to that... maybe apart from that 1995 to 1997 side... haven't we always had those annoying losses... maybe less than most teams, but they were still there.
So if we were to go unbeaten for 10 matches... we'd have the makings of a great side. Which may take a few seasons to develop... doing it now would be quite the miracle..? Even SA has lost already this season... Ireland I guess did it for a period but then lost the vital match at the World Cup and has since lost to England and SA... so while it would be great... I think it might be a year or two before we get to that level again... if we ever do under Razor...
Gumboot wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 am
So a loss and a win against the Pumas, and now it's off to South Africa for the next stage of The Rugby Championship.
Scott Barrett's finger is fully mended and he'll lead the tour, but there are doubts over the fitness of Tuipulotu, Jacobson and de Groot, with a call on them to be made on Wednesday.
We probably have enough cover at lock and loosie now, but I wonder if they'll bring in another loosehead if de Groot misses the trip. I also wonder if Tamaiti Williams should now be our starting no.1 regardless of de Groot's fitness. Jeez, he was impressive last night.
Obviously hoping for 2 wins in the Republic, but realistically I'll be pretty happy if we can come home with one win over the imperious Bokke.
Bring it!
All Blacks are the big favorites
Against the World Champions? Where can I get some of that action, whoever is giving odds against the Bokke at home against a rebuilding AB outfit is headed toward bankruptcy.
Advantage Bokke in this encounter, but should harden up some of our new troops, NZ building nicely imho.
Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 7:35 am
I thought I'd let this settle after last night before posting and chatted with a mate at work about it today...
among my personal and completely subjective arguments about the team and tactics is one disturbing theme... over the last 5 years or so we've seen the ABs show up and get shown up too many times. Teams getting bossed off the ball, out muscled by the same qualities they have employed so consistently and well.
We've seen them mount impressive fightbacks when backed up against the wall... Jo'burg last year and at the RWC, then last night after last week.
It's not good enough. Whatever the rot is, or soft caramel centre, Razor will want to root that out and fuck it off.
Yeah/nah. Unfortunately I can't agree. Global professionalism has caught up with the ABs. The days of the team having nearly double figures of players who'd walk in the best XV in the world for their position are over. The margins as every coach has now stated at the top level are razor thin. A few % off your game and you're toast, and you are not going to get it right every time and/or the opposition is going to which you have to respect. The ABs in full flight are still one of the best sights possible to see in rugby and for 50 minutes we got that last night. I'll be happy with that... but not expect it week in week out. It simply won't happen, the opposition now is too good relatively.
One of most sensible posts I have read. I always remember the worry that as the game went pro, NZ market was probably to small to really retain all the players we wanted to, and would slowly drain the depth that kept us near the top for so long. I think we are doing bloody well, I genuinely enjoy test rugby probably more now than I did in say late 80s etc when we basically trotted out on field and beat whoever truned up, except on odd occasions.
I actually think the other thing we have to be realistic about is something 50yo son and mates were saying, when they grew up you had a choice on weekend played rugby (or maybe soccer) or did nothing socially . Now there is so many sports etc, especially on tv kids just have options etc. and we not bringing through generations who have lived and breathed the game.
Mind you I also enjoy it as I finally learnt in the 90s when we lost tests etc it wasn't the end of world and sun still came up. And usualyy it was just because other team was better on the day, and out players/coaches weren't useless.
Sandstorm wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 pm
It’s not the coach. In a country with some of the most embarrassing haircuts this decade, Razor’s greasy mop is not inspirational.
It's not the coach, but it is the coach because of his hair?
All Blacks assistant coach Leon MacDonald has quit his job midway through the Rugby Championship due to a clash of coaching styles with head coach Scott Robertson.
New Zealand Rugby said discussions between Robertson and MacDonald on their “working approach” have been taking place for several weeks, with the pair agreeing to mutually part ways.
The All Blacks have announced the shock coaching change as they prepare to travel to South Africa for two tests against the world champion Springboks.
Assistant coach Scott Hansen and contact skills coach Tamati Ellison will take on additional responsibilities for the remainder of the season.
“Leon and I have been having some honest conversations with each other for a little while now,” Robertson said.
“As coaches we have differing views and both agreed it wasn’t working. Leon and I both care deeply about the All Blacks and we believe we’ve made a decision that’s best for this team.
“There’s a huge amount of respect and appreciation for Leon in the group and the work he’s put in to get us to this point in our journey.
“As a team we have acknowledged that contribution and our focus now needs to be on South Africa, it’s going to be two tough test matches over there.”
MacDonald was recruited by the All Blacks after coaching the Blues at Super Rugby Pacific.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:37 am
by Enzedder
This is normally when we recruit Wayne Smith
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:46 am
by Guy Smiley
Weird title for this clip that comes nowhere close to what's in there. Have a watch and tell me you come away unmoved...
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2024 8:11 am
by Jethro
Enzedder wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:37 am
This is normally when we recruit Wayne Smith
Or pull a quick one, and appoint the Taranaki coach, who let's face it is doing a decent job just recently.
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:18 pm
by handyman
Is Breakdown the top NZ rugby show?
Re: 2024 All Blacks
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:13 pm
by Grandpa
handyman wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:18 pm
Is Breakdown the top NZ rugby show?
No, it's awful.
Try Aotearoa Rugby Pod with James Parsons and Brynn Hall
Try Aotearoa Rugby Pod with James Parsons and Brynn Hall
Cheers. I like Mils, Goldie and the rest, Kirwan not so much.
They're very vanilla... you get much greater depth on the Aotearoa Rugby Pod.
I avoid the Breakdown like the plague. They're terrible, paid cheerleaders pushing the NZR party line at all times, it's all about keeping the image of NZR looking good with no objective criticism to speak of. I've also had enough of Kirsty Stanaway's excited shouting in normal conversation. Fuck the lot of them. Someone should jam one of our many, many orange plastic road traffic cones down Justin Marshall's gullet.
