Angry White Men

[epwc]

No disagreement on Leyton! But in the 30s it was a really pleasant place by all accounts. No longer.

So how far back are we going?

Notting Hill in the 50s and 60s was a black ghetto, now it's all millionaires and billionaires

[Biffer]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... n=sharebar

[petej]

Leyton has been a dump pretty much all my life, Bethnal Green is all very chic now (my daughter lived there), Walthamstow likewise.

The demographics in these places have been changing for decades. As an example Walthamstow was pretty much exclusively Asian 20 years ago, there are LOADS of white people there now. Like most other major cities in the world it's all very dynamic.

Another example I know a lot about is Whitechapel, when all the white people and Jews left Whitechapel Market and Watney Street Market both became deserts, they are both buzzing again now.

I'm not saying I don't understand your concerns PB, but what do you think the solution is?

No disagreement on Leyton! But in the 30s it was a really pleasant place by all accounts. No longer.

Solution wise: as I say successful multi-ethnic societies throughout history have attempted to ensure that the ethnic balance doesn’t shift markedly. We are seeing ours shift astonishingly rapidly because we give out millions of visas a year. I don’t think it’s a winner economically and I think it’s a disaster for society. Essentially I don’t think we can have expected any other outcome from the immigration policies we have pursued for 25 years or so, that were turbocharged by Johnson and Patel in 2019.

Success would look like very low levels of migration, very low tolerance for failing to integrate and zero tolerance for ethnic based street disturbances like the ones we’re currently seeing.

There is also a bit cultural and secular (as most of the UK is not religious) muscularity required. Things like full face coverings when conversing or public facing job is culturally rude and linked to criminality and disease. Allowing homophobia and sexism for religious reasons should also be a no-no as we shouldn't tolerate intolerance on a religious basis.

[dpedin]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

They're not legitimate concerns they're people who demand they "have their country back", which to them means making it white, something which is unachievable. Not that it matters but the UK was never an ethno state, UK citizenship has always been determined by soil/residence (unlike Ireland where citizenship is based around blood/ethnicity and can be retained through generations of living outside Ireland, this isn't possible for British people past the first generation or two). You can tell much of the right don't comprehend this as "immigrants" and people who aren't white are constantly conflated.

They don't love the UK they actually hate it. This in turn makes them a hindrance to the UK as it exists now and will do into the future.

They're free to make poor political choices of course, to vote Reform or try to make Farage PM. But as we've seen with 14 years of Tory rule and Brexit, this is likely to worsen their position.

This has always been an argument the racists have used to try and explain their actions. It is a common theme because that's what they read in the Daily Mail, hear on GBNews, hear from the 'common man' Farage, etc. It is convenient and easy - blame someone else for your failings like for example the the avocado eating, latte drinking, North London, woke, communist literati? Throughout history it has always been someone else that has caused the problems or took over our country - the Jews, the Irish, the West Indians who came on Windrush, the Indians and the Pakistanis, the Poles and Eastern Europeans, the Nigerians, etc. This is straight out of the Nazi playbook - install hatred and fear of a minority in the population and blame them for the countries problems. Classic Enoch Powell. They used these minorities as an excuse to incite violence and to push through policies and laws which increases and centralize power, control, authority and money into the hands of the few who portray themselves as the saviors of whoever the pretend to represent ... in this case young, white men. Using a real tragedy, in this case the murder of the young Swifties, to circulate misinformation, tell clear lies and and falsehoods and create mob violence is a classic strategy. It was the murder of Vom Rath by his 17 year old jewish lover that was used by the Nazi's to trigger the Kristallnacht in Berlin and a 2 day pogrom of German jews, their homes and their businesses and laid the groundwork for the holocaust.

We are treading a very dangerous line here and blaming others for our own, or our Government's failures will return us to the dark ages. For example 1 in 3 doctors and 1 in 4 nurses in the NHS report a non UK nationality, without them the NHS would collapse and those complaining that their country has been 'taken over' by immigrants will be left waiting even longer for their operations or treatment. However I am sure when challenged they would say something like 'Oh I don't mean nice Mr Singh who did my heart operation, he can stay' or the 'nice Singapore nurses who are looking after my sick mum in hospital'. These are the same folk complaining about immigrants taking their jobs who were going to go out and pick all our vegetables and fruit after Brexit ... that went well!

[tabascoboy]

Nothing is new but the ability to propagate information almost instantly. And clearly from pics and videos from this weekend there was a good deal of simple opportunism for aggro and looting without any real regard to political stances

[_Os_]

very low tolerance for failing to integrate

What does that mean?

Immigrants from the Caribbean arrived as upstanding middleclass type people (Windrush etc), they could only do jobs no one else wanted. This meant their children and grand children integrated into the working classes, the worst of their descendants behave not much different to the worst chavs etc. When they commit crime there's heaps of right wing noise about them not integrating (British people for generations), when whites from a similar socioeconomic background do things not much different there's nothing about a failure to integrate (or really much criticism at all). If they're white these people will be dismissed as chavs etc, but never that they're just simply not British at all.

It's used in such a way that makes it impossible for anyone who isn't white to be deemed fully integrated unless they manage to become some sort of copy of an upper class person in South East England, who has no religion, only speaks English, and has a BBC accent. I mean the ... the UK has failed to do that over centuries even with its own underclass and Celts.

It's not politically correct, and not something you'll ever see in the media, but take it from an immigrant, it's perfectly rational for someone to look at the English culture around them (usually chav culture) and simply see it as beneath their own in every way. The main reason the descendants of Hindus have done well, is they didn't integrate at all, they had the same circumstances as those from the Caribbean but they had their own separate religion and language (in contrast to the Commonwealth parts of the Caribbean which are English speaking and Christian). Because they did well lots of them are now upper class people from South East England with an English accent that is BBC ... so they're "perfectly integrated".

[Paddington Bear]

It is simply untrue that Hindus, our best integrated ethnic minority, owe their success to not assimilating to large parts of British culture

[epwc]

very low tolerance for failing to integrate

What does that mean?

Immigrants from the Caribbean arrived as upstanding middleclass type people (Windrush etc), they could only do jobs no one else wanted. This meant their children and grand children integrated into the working classes, the worst of their descendants behave not much different to the worst chavs etc. When they commit crime there's heaps of right wing noise about them not integrating (British people for generations), when whites from a similar socioeconomic background do things not much different there's nothing about a failure to integrate (or really much criticism at all). If they're white these people will be dismissed as chavs etc, but never that they're just simply not British at all.

It's used in such a way that makes it impossible for anyone who isn't white to be deemed fully integrated unless they manage to become some sort of copy of an upper class person in South East England, who has no religion, only speaks English, and has a BBC accent. I mean the ... the UK has failed to do that over centuries even with its own underclass and Celts.

It's not politically correct, and not something you'll ever see in the media, but take it from an immigrant, it's perfectly rational for someone to look at the English culture around them (usually chav culture) and simply see it as beneath their own in every way. The main reason the descendants of Hindus have done well, is they didn't integrate at all, they had the same circumstances as those from the Caribbean but they had their own separate religion and language (in contrast to the Caribbean which is obviously English speaking and Christian). Because they did well lots of them are now upper class people from South East England with an English accent that is BBC ... so they're "perfectly integrated".

Yep, I'm with you. Always been troubled by "integrated" and "assimilated"

[Sandstorm]

It is simply untrue that Hindus, our best integrated ethnic minority, owe their success to not assimilating to large parts of British culture

Nice, kind hard-working people who don’t waste parts of their day in the pub or mosque.

[_Os_]

It is simply untrue that Hindus, our best integrated ethnic minority, owe their success to not assimilating to large parts of British culture

Yet when Sunak skipped D-Day you were quick on saying he did so because he had no cultural connection to it.

[Paddington Bear]

It is simply untrue that Hindus, our best integrated ethnic minority, owe their success to not assimilating to large parts of British culture

Yet when Sunak skipped D-Day you were quick on saying he did so because he had no cultural connection to it.

Because he’s a product of Californian Venture Capital, not because he’s a Hindu?

[epwc]

It is simply untrue that Hindus, our best integrated ethnic minority, owe their success to not assimilating to large parts of British culture

Yet when Sunak skipped D-Day you were quick on saying he did so because he had no cultural connection to it.

That did make me bristle a bit, anyone of Indian ancestry with even a passing historical knowledge of the Indian army and its participation in both World Wars would of course have a connection to it. If it were me I'd have been so proud to be the first product of Empire to represent my nation there.

[Tichtheid]

There is a beautiful memorial near Brighton to Hindu and Sikh soldiers who died fighting for Britain and Allies.

It’s a very spiritual place

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chattri,_Brighton

[TedMaul]

800k died in WW1, these pot bellied twats setting fire to shops and hotels have no idea do they.

[epwc]

these pot bellied twats setting fire to shops and hotels have no idea do they.

No they don't, they're so fucking integrated they don't know anything about their own history.

[petej]

I quite like this article from football365.

The stupid thuggishness of summer riots will be calmed by Valium of football
John Nicholson 2 hours ago

For us in Scotland, the league season started again this weekend. I don’t know if that’s why there’s been no rioting on the streets, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

Football has long been a useful pressure valve for society. It’s easy to forget just how preoccupying and pervasive football is; over 830,000 go to a game in England each week from the Scottish border to the south coast.

Figures show Scotland had 21.3 attendees per 1,000 people at matches across its top four divisions, and a weekly average support of 117,700 fans. That is 65% higher than second-placed country the Netherlands, which has 12.9 attendees per 1000 people.

Last season over four million fans turned out to watch matches across the Scottish Premiership, Championship, League One and League Two if you add up all attendances, though obviously several people are counted several times.

I’ve been going to football for 54 years and throughout that time I’ve been aware of a hooligan element at almost all matches, even lower-league games: the exact same element that is looting your local vape shop.

A potent mixture of violence, horribleness, xenophobia, low intellect and racism. It’s all there. If you think this sort of behaviour is new, come with me in my time machine back to 1976 at Ayresome Park one evening after a tedious night game against Manchester City which ended 0-0 and witness running fights in the streets, pissing in front gardens, smashing windows, looting shops, cracking heads, verbal abuse of pretty much anyone and violence against anyone non-white and plenty that are. All entirely casual, normal and all awful.

We used to plan getting in – and especially out – of a game, so as not to be trapped in the back streets, unable to escape and thus not get beaten up for, well, what have you got? Violence was everyday and endemic.

Life was really f*cking hard and at times, brutal, it really was. For example, did anyone at your school get suspended for assaulting the female French teacher with a 10″ pink plastic dildo, then burning down some of the offices? I say that without any nostalgia at all.

As a consequence, you had to develop a sixth sense for it ‘kicking off’ and although I’ve not thought much about it since, the footage of rioters really reminds me of that time. There’s something identifiable about the way knuckleheads move when in fight-and-destroy mode best exemplified by those kids in Liverpool who knocked a copper off his bike. The way they swarm randomly on bikes and on foot. It used to be in parkas with rabbit fur around the hood, rather than leisurewear from Primark and JD Sports, but it’s essentially the same.

My friend Dil’s dad used to run an Asian corner shop in Middlesbrough and he had hair-raising stories of what football fans did to the place, every home game. Seeing Asian boys taking a kicking was not unusual. So this sort of stupid thuggishness is familiar if depressing and while many, though not all, were drawn from socially deprived areas, attempts by the middle class to explain and excuse it from a social perspective were just irrelevant, because the majority from places like Berwick Hills didn’t behave like this and were just as socially deprived.

For two years I did what was called at the time ‘a pools round’ in Stockton, collecting money and Littlewoods pools coupons and Spot the Ball entries. It was my first experience of a cross-section of society, aged 16, that I wouldn’t have come across otherwise, from posh middle-class professionals to council house dole wallers and everything in between.

Most of them were good people and left their door open and money on the telephone table (one for the kids there) for me, but there was a tiny minority of dysfunctional headbangers too.

Everybody else knew of them and to stay away from them. They were the piss-head nutters who always ended up in jail. At the time, I knew nothing of the world, but noted that these heed-the-balls all came from the same kind of family, with a dad who didn’t work or was absent, and a hard-faced mother who worked as a cleaner, smoked 60-a-day and looked 10 years older than she was. That seemed to be why they were pisshead nutters. It didn’t excuse it in the slightest but did explain it. Put them in a better situation with something to lose and they’d be different.

Of course this is all too nuanced for public policy and too long term a project to eradicate unfairness, poverty and stupidity. Twats be twats and when they’re burning your library, you just want to slap them down hard.

Summer riots are nothing new. The BBC calling them British when they happen in England is typically inaccurate work and ignorant of Scotland. Wait until it rains. Your standard rioter is committed to anarchy as long as they don’t get wet.

Wait until the football season returns and they can get back to supporting the foreign players in their colours and shouting abuse. It won’t surrender to analysis or intellectualising, it’s a mile wide and as deep as burning down the Citizens Advice Bureau. Performative, nasty, gormless, senseless and utterly stupid to its core.

It never was and still isn’t about immigration, despite their protestations to the contrary. That’s the excuse of the brain dead and an exploited convenience. No, it’s about being a twat, having no future, being uneducated, having no empathy and riding any excuse the middle-class gives you for looting Sainsbury’s.

Access to social media has changed things so that hooliganism spreads more quickly, and widespread use of cocaine, rather than Camerons Strongarm, has exacerbated these situations, but it seems more than likely that football will be the Valium that calms this rage.

These people have always walked amongst us, easily riled up by frog-faced, tobacco-stained, stinking, double-breasted bad actors and their stupid bigots-for-money media. The best we can do is to jail them and slap them down, while working on neutralising the fertile ground that feeds and facilitates them.

[ASMO]

There is a beautiful memorial near Brighton to Hindu and Sikh soldiers who died fighting for Britain and Allies.

It’s a very spiritual place

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chattri,_Brighton

It is not just a memorial, it is actually where they cremated hundreds of them too, and the ashes were scattered there. I have been there many many times

[Tichtheid]

There is a beautiful memorial near Brighton to Hindu and Sikh soldiers who died fighting for Britain and Allies.

It’s a very spiritual place

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chattri,_Brighton

It is not just a memorial, it is actually where they cremated hundreds of them too, and the ashes were scattered there. I have been there many many times

Yeah, me too.

The site was chosen, iirc, because it was an easy transfer from there to whatever heaven is

[_Os_]

It is simply untrue that Hindus, our best integrated ethnic minority, owe their success to not assimilating to large parts of British culture

Yet when Sunak skipped D-Day you were quick on saying he did so because he had no cultural connection to it.

Because he’s a product of Californian Venture Capital, not because he’s a Hindu?

I don't recall the post being that specific but fair enough. If it was about being a globalist wouldn't he want to meet global leaders though?

To me it seemed like he got himself into an awful mess about "attending British events" to appease part of the Tory base, that went to Reform anyway.

That did make me bristle a bit, anyone of Indian ancestry with even a passing historical knowledge of the Indian army and its participation in both World Wars would of course have a connection to it. If it were me I'd have been so proud to be the first product of Empire to represent my nation there.

It was just incomprehensible. Even someone with no family connection to the event cannot have anything against D-Day surely.

Interesting point about Empire, like a lot in the UK it is contested (monarchy, Scottish independence, Irish unity, relationship with Europe ... just a few others). Braverman has made some very pro-British Empire statements and specifically sees it as a test of Britishness that someone agrees with her view. There's views in these contested areas that are seen to be more integrated (which are conveniently always right wing) even when there's no agreement (the oddity about Sunak and D-Day, is there is no disagreement). It was interesting during the Brexit wars when Femi (a very pro-EU activist, who is also black) was accused of not really being British, Mike Graham had a whole bit about him actually being American complete with accent impersonations ... all the guy did was say the UK should be in the EU.

[Slick]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

They're not legitimate concerns they're people who demand they "have their country back", which to them means making it white, something which is unachievable. Not that it matters but the UK was never an ethno state, UK citizenship has always been determined by soil/residence (unlike Ireland where citizenship is based around blood/ethnicity and can be retained indefinitely through generations of living outside Ireland, this isn't possible for British people past the first generation or two). You can tell much of the right don't comprehend this as "immigrants" and people who aren't white are constantly conflated.

They don't love the UK they actually hate it. This in turn makes them a hindrance to the UK as it exists now and will do into the future.

They're free to make poor political choices of course, to vote Reform or try to make Farage PM. But as we've seen with 14 years of Tory rule and Brexit, this is likely to worsen their position.

Yay! Being told again that they don’t have legitimate concerns by someone who doesn’t live their lives

[epwc]

Yay! Being told again that they don’t have legitimate concerns by someone who doesn’t live their lives

I think the core of what _Os_ is saying is the bit that needs answering, what would assuage their concerns? From what I can see (plenty of previous experience, plus the current shit storm) it means less darkies more white people.

I asked earlier but haven't had a reply:

Migration from all the undesirable brown places is unlikely to stop, I guess we could try and say we only want white immigrants but unlikely to go down well with all us brown folk already here. Maybe white only enclaves? Or a policy like Singapore that allots housing by race?

I really have no answer that addresses the issue. As I asked PB, what is the solution?

And in the absence of a solution should we expect this kind of "action" to become normalised?


So do you have any sensible proposal on how we should deal with the issue?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

They're not legitimate concerns they're people who demand they "have their country back", which to them means making it white, something which is unachievable. Not that it matters but the UK was never an ethno state, UK citizenship has always been determined by soil/residence (unlike Ireland where citizenship is based around blood/ethnicity and can be retained indefinitely through generations of living outside Ireland, this isn't possible for British people past the first generation or two). You can tell much of the right don't comprehend this as "immigrants" and people who aren't white are constantly conflated.

They don't love the UK they actually hate it. This in turn makes them a hindrance to the UK as it exists now and will do into the future.

They're free to make poor political choices of course, to vote Reform or try to make Farage PM. But as we've seen with 14 years of Tory rule and Brexit, this is likely to worsen their position.

Yay! Being told again that they don’t have legitimate concerns by someone who doesn’t live their lives

If that holds as a concept, that others should consider their concerns, how much in turn are they obliged to consider many consider them a disgusting waste of skin? or is it just a one way consideration that seems reasonable?

[_Os_]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

They're not legitimate concerns they're people who demand they "have their country back", which to them means making it white, something which is unachievable. Not that it matters but the UK was never an ethno state, UK citizenship has always been determined by soil/residence (unlike Ireland where citizenship is based around blood/ethnicity and can be retained indefinitely through generations of living outside Ireland, this isn't possible for British people past the first generation or two). You can tell much of the right don't comprehend this as "immigrants" and people who aren't white are constantly conflated.

They don't love the UK they actually hate it. This in turn makes them a hindrance to the UK as it exists now and will do into the future.

They're free to make poor political choices of course, to vote Reform or try to make Farage PM. But as we've seen with 14 years of Tory rule and Brexit, this is likely to worsen their position.

Yay! Being told again that they don’t have legitimate concerns by someone who doesn’t live their lives

What point in time do they want to turn the clock back to exactly? And how are they going to get there?

As famous Springbok captain Matt Damon said in Hollywood's greatest movie "times change".

PS: I've seen how they live their lives (when last did you set foot in a council house?), lots of people including the media and politicians panda to them. Some demonise them, unfairly at times. No one gives them all the home truths about how a lot of where they are is down to them and their bad cultural practices (are they making their children do extra educational work after school like the Asian children next door, or are they letting them run riot in the street?).

[epwc]

As famous Springbok captain Matt Damon said in Hollywood's greatest movie "times change".

They do indeed, ask the Great Plains Indians or a multitude of other first nation people

[tabascoboy]

Doctors urged to travel in groups after riots
published at 17:31
Healthcare workers have been told to "remain vigilant" and travel in groups by the Royal College of GPs , externalafter the past week of violence.

The college is concerned about reports of "horrific and completely unacceptable" abuse and violence against GPs and their staff, "especially those from ethnic minorities".

"Where possible and appropriate, travel in groups, avoid known areas of unrest, and keep your mobile phones charged and accessible," the body says.

Meanwhile, the Royal College of Nursing, external says the "scenes around the country are nothing short of despicable racism".

"Migrant nursing staff are precious members of our communities, hardwired into the very DNA of our health and care services – we ask government to ensure that anybody targeting them pays a very heavy price."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cw5yyynpwnzt

[epwc]

I'd love to know how many of these goons have Irish ancestry, it was within current life times that the Irish were treated like dirt in the UK

[Slick]

Yay! Being told again that they don’t have legitimate concerns by someone who doesn’t live their lives

I think the core of what _Os_ is saying is the bit that needs answering, what would assuage their concerns? From what I can see (plenty of previous experience, plus the current shit storm) it means less darkies more white people.

I asked earlier but haven't had a reply:

Migration from all the undesirable brown places is unlikely to stop, I guess we could try and say we only want white immigrants but unlikely to go down well with all us brown folk already here. Maybe white only enclaves? Or a policy like Singapore that allots housing by race?

I really have no answer that addresses the issue. As I asked PB, what is the solution?

And in the absence of a solution should we expect this kind of "action" to become normalised?


So do you have any sensible proposal on how we should deal with the issue?

I genuinely don’t think it’s the colour of the skin that’s the issue, it’s the volume

[Slick]

They're not legitimate concerns they're people who demand they "have their country back", which to them means making it white, something which is unachievable. Not that it matters but the UK was never an ethno state, UK citizenship has always been determined by soil/residence (unlike Ireland where citizenship is based around blood/ethnicity and can be retained indefinitely through generations of living outside Ireland, this isn't possible for British people past the first generation or two). You can tell much of the right don't comprehend this as "immigrants" and people who aren't white are constantly conflated.

They don't love the UK they actually hate it. This in turn makes them a hindrance to the UK as it exists now and will do into the future.

They're free to make poor political choices of course, to vote Reform or try to make Farage PM. But as we've seen with 14 years of Tory rule and Brexit, this is likely to worsen their position.

Yay! Being told again that they don’t have legitimate concerns by someone who doesn’t live their lives

What point in time do they want to turn the clock back to exactly? And how are they going to get there?

As famous Springbok captain Matt Damon said in Hollywood's greatest movie "times change".

PS: I've seen how they live their lives (when last did you set foot in a council house?), lots of people including the media and politicians panda to them. Some demonise them, unfairly at times. No one gives them all the home truths about how a lot of where they are is down to them and their bad cultural practices (are they making their children do extra educational work after school like the Asian children next door, or are they letting them run riot in the street?).

I wouldn’t try and out council house me my friend.

[Hugo]

I'd love to know how many of these goons have Irish ancestry, it was within current life times that the Irish were treated like dirt in the UK

Im going to push back on this - I've never seen the Irish treated like dirt in England even after stuff like the Warrington and Manchester bombings. During the 94 world cup many English people were supporting Ireland.

My cousin has a grandmother from Limerick, my Dad's two next door neighbours growing up in the 50s and 60s were the Flanagans and O'Connell's and the families are all friends today.

[_Os_]

Yay! Being told again that they don’t have legitimate concerns by someone who doesn’t live their lives

What point in time do they want to turn the clock back to exactly? And how are they going to get there?

As famous Springbok captain Matt Damon said in Hollywood's greatest movie "times change".

PS: I've seen how they live their lives (when last did you set foot in a council house?), lots of people including the media and politicians panda to them. Some demonise them, unfairly at times. No one gives them all the home truths about how a lot of where they are is down to them and their bad cultural practices (are they making their children do extra educational work after school like the Asian children next door, or are they letting them run riot in the street?).

I wouldn’t try and out council house me my friend.

Then you know what I'm saying at the very least isn't without any truth at all.

[Slick]

They're not legitimate concerns they're people who demand they "have their country back", which to them means making it white, something which is unachievable. Not that it matters but the UK was never an ethno state, UK citizenship has always been determined by soil/residence (unlike Ireland where citizenship is based around blood/ethnicity and can be retained indefinitely through generations of living outside Ireland, this isn't possible for British people past the first generation or two). You can tell much of the right don't comprehend this as "immigrants" and people who aren't white are constantly conflated.

They don't love the UK they actually hate it. This in turn makes them a hindrance to the UK as it exists now and will do into the future.

They're free to make poor political choices of course, to vote Reform or try to make Farage PM. But as we've seen with 14 years of Tory rule and Brexit, this is likely to worsen their position.

Yay! Being told again that they don’t have legitimate concerns by someone who doesn’t live their lives

What point in time do they want to turn the clock back to exactly? And how are they going to get there?

As famous Springbok captain Matt Damon said in Hollywood's greatest movie "times change".

PS: I've seen how they live their lives (when last did you set foot in a council house?), lots of people including the media and politicians panda to them. Some demonise them, unfairly at times. No one gives them all the home truths about how a lot of where they are is down to them and their bad cultural practices (are they making their children do extra educational work after school like the Asian children next door, or are they letting them run riot in the street?).

I’m pretty speechless that your solution to their concerns is just to tell them it’s their own fault. Your commentary on what is happening on the ground is very good, your social commentary is absolutely appalling

[epwc]

I'd love to know how many of these goons have Irish ancestry, it was within current life times that the Irish were treated like dirt in the UK

Im going to push back on this - I've never seen the Irish treated like dirt in England even after stuff like the Warrington and Manchester bombings. During the 94 world cup many English people were supporting Ireland.

https://www.londonmet.ac.uk/news/expert ... es-to-die/

https://shows.acast.com/irishhistory/ep ... 0s-britain

[epwc]

I genuinely don’t think it’s the colour of the skin that’s the issue, it’s the volume

So if it were all Ozzies, Kiwis and Canadians it'd be the same? What or who would they be attacking?

Regardless that's not a solution, that's a supposition.

[inactionman]

I'd love to know how many of these goons have Irish ancestry, it was within current life times that the Irish were treated like dirt in the UK

Im going to push back on this - I've never seen the Irish treated like dirt in England even after stuff like the Warrington and Manchester bombings. During the 94 world cup many English people were supporting Ireland.

https://www.londonmet.ac.uk/news/expert ... es-to-die/

https://shows.acast.com/irishhistory/ep ... 0s-britain

My mum and my mum-in-law both got it a bit, but that's going back to the 60s-70s, which links in with the Troubles.

It's not been such a feature in more modern times, thank god.

[Paddington Bear]

I genuinely don’t think it’s the colour of the skin that’s the issue, it’s the volume

So if it were all Ozzies, Kiwis and Canadians it'd be the same? What or who would they be attacking?

Regardless that's not a solution, that's a supposition.

Migration rhetoric came into the mainstream when Poland et al joined the EU. I.e. during a wave of white immigration. As for Aussies and kiwis - I think in general Brits don’t really see them as foreign for reasonably obvious reasons, however I’m sure many of us have at some stage complained about the sheer volume of Aussie bar staff in London!

[_Os_]

I’m pretty speechless that your solution to their concerns is just to tell them it’s their own fault. Your commentary on what is happening on the ground is very good, your social commentary is absolutely appalling

If someone is rocking up from Pakistan with basically no skills and is immediately outcompeting them (not convinced they are really, but lets just say they are), then something has gone very wrong. And indeed it has. If the immigrant from Pakistan were not there, it would still be going wrong.

I think there probably does need to be a discussion about chav culture (for want of a better term) off the back of this. I have no expectation that will ever happen. I do expect talk of Levelling Up off the back of this, but that is about what the state can do for people not what they can do for themselves, so it's a more comfortable discussion.

I think you're an okay guy too, it's fine to disagree (and we do a lot! I suspect when we agree we just don't feel the need to say so). I wouldn't be chatting to you if I thought you were a dick.

[Slick]

I genuinely don’t think it’s the colour of the skin that’s the issue, it’s the volume

So if it were all Ozzies, Kiwis and Canadians it'd be the same? What or who would they be attacking?

Regardless that's not a solution, that's a supposition.

I’ve told you, it’s volume that’s the issue. But it doesn’t really matter, whatever I or anyone else says you’re determined to drag it back to white man bad

[Slick]

I’m pretty speechless that your solution to their concerns is just to tell them it’s their own fault. Your commentary on what is happening on the ground is very good, your social commentary is absolutely appalling

If someone is rocking up from Pakistan with basically no skills and is immediately outcompeting them (not convinced they are really, but lets just say they are), then something has gone very wrong. And indeed it has. If the immigrant from Pakistan were not there, it would still be going wrong.

I think there probably does need to be a discussion about chav culture (for want of a better term) off the back of this. I have no expectation that will ever happen. I do expect talk of Levelling Up off the back of this, but that is about what the state can do for people not what they can do for themselves, so it's a more comfortable discussion.

I think you're an okay guy too, it's fine to disagree (and we do a lot! I suspect when we agree we just don't feel the need to say so). I wouldn't be chatting to you if I thought you were a dick.

Agreed mate

[Slick]

I genuinely don’t think it’s the colour of the skin that’s the issue, it’s the volume

So if it were all Ozzies, Kiwis and Canadians it'd be the same? What or who would they be attacking?

Regardless that's not a solution, that's a supposition.

Migration rhetoric came into the mainstream when Poland et al joined the EU. I.e. during a wave of white immigration. As for Aussies and kiwis - I think in general Brits don’t really see them as foreign for reasonably obvious reasons, however I’m sure many of us have at some stage complained about the sheer volume of Aussie bar staff in London!

There were angry debates on a weekly basis about their inability to pull a pint of ale. Worst immigrants ever

[Sandstorm]

I genuinely don’t think it’s the colour of the skin that’s the issue, it’s the volume

So if it were all Ozzies, Kiwis and Canadians it'd be the same? What or who would they be attacking?

Regardless that's not a solution, that's a supposition.

Migration rhetoric came into the mainstream when Poland et al joined the EU. I.e. during a wave of white immigration. As for Aussies and kiwis - I think in general Brits don’t really see them as foreign for reasonably obvious reasons, however I’m sure many of us have at some stage complained about the sheer volume of Aussie bar staff in London!

Many of those Antipodeans and Saffers who turned up in the 90s were single. Poles in the 2000s and Asians since then often came over with wife and kids in tow, putting pressure on under-funded local services.