NPR

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:25 am

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:22 am

With infections still over 100, what is he proposing?

We and most of Europe have infections in the 1,000’s ....

yep, and you've had 42,000 deaths. So please don't preach to us about anything to do with COVID-19. We've all seen how poorly your country has done and we don't want to emulate that here.

I’m not preaching anything. We did a bad job protecting care homes. However eradication by lockdown isn’t an actual policy it’s nonsense.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:26 am

mat the expat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:39 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:20 am
Yeah, the politics around this are interesting and a little strange.
Saw Josh Frydenburg interviewed on ABC this morning and he was deflecting from the question being repeatedly asked on aged care, and the winding back of jobkeeper, and was focusing on Vic going too hard.
For me, it demonstrates that we need a more federal approach and having the states lead is difficult if the government wants to give a clear message.
To be honest, I dont like how the leaders are playing politics on this and instead they should be giving a clear and consistent message that is easy to follow and doesnt lead to the division and protest we are seeing.

Hi outburst today was a fucking disgrace.

With infections still over 100, what is he proposing?

Yep, utterly partisan. Playing to big business and his conservative base, and trying to deflect Federal govt blame for the nation's lagging economy and the ever increasing deaths in aged care.

They'll roll out Innes Willox soon to talk about wage cuts

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:50 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:25 am

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:22 am



We and most of Europe have infections in the 1,000’s ....

yep, and you've had 42,000 deaths. So please don't preach to us about anything to do with COVID-19. We've all seen how poorly your country has done and we don't want to emulate that here.

I’m not preaching anything. We did a bad job protecting care homes. However eradication by lockdown isn’t an actual policy it’s nonsense.

Do fuck off you bot

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:50 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:25 am

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:22 am



We and most of Europe have infections in the 1,000’s ....

yep, and you've had 42,000 deaths. So please don't preach to us about anything to do with COVID-19. We've all seen how poorly your country has done and we don't want to emulate that here.

I’m not preaching anything. We did a bad job protecting care homes. However eradication by lockdown isn’t an actual policy it’s nonsense.

What the fuck would you know about that?

You’re stuck in the poorest performing country in Europe regarding COVID 19 trying to tell others how to manage it. You’re a sick joke.

mat the expat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:52 am

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:50 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:25 am

yep, and you've had 42,000 deaths. So please don't preach to us about anything to do with COVID-19. We've all seen how poorly your country has done and we don't want to emulate that here.

I’m not preaching anything. We did a bad job protecting care homes. However eradication by lockdown isn’t an actual policy it’s nonsense.

Do fuck off you bot

Facts help.

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:57 am

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:50 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:25 am

yep, and you've had 42,000 deaths. So please don't preach to us about anything to do with COVID-19. We've all seen how poorly your country has done and we don't want to emulate that here.

I’m not preaching anything. We did a bad job protecting care homes. However eradication by lockdown isn’t an actual policy it’s nonsense.

What the fuck would you know about that?

You’re stuck in the poorest performing country in Europe regarding COVID 19 trying to tell others how to manage it. You’re a sick joke.

Well Spain and Belgium were the worst. See facts help.

Either way this nonsense approach you’re all cheering on in Victoria shows either a distinct lack of sense or in some cases a love of authority...

I tend to think arguing that we follow a country with 42k deaths is bad advice.
There are 42k official deaths but somewhere like 55k excess deaths. Sure there are additional heart attack deaths for people who couldn’t get to the hospital. But equally there are less flu deaths etc.
55k at a death rate of 0.5% is 11m people infected. That’s over 15% of the population. There is evidence that having had other coronavirus Ed grants some immunity to Covid (a bit like cowpox helps with immunity to smallpox). I tend to think cases are down at least as much due to there being far less people to infect.
Australia has had 550 deaths. That’s infections of 100k or 0.4% of the population. We are nowhere near immunity in society.
If we were to get to 15% of our population infected that would be over 3.5m cases and nearly 20k deaths. Pursuing Our strategy instead of the UK strategy saved 18000 people’s lives. Incidentally a report came out that showed suicides had not increased.
Our economy is hurt but so is the UKs. I’d argue ours is stronger at the moment. But we saved 18k lives.

Eradication is nonsense if that is the end game. But if we think there is a vaccine on the horizon, and I am of the opinion from what I have read, that one will be in place by around Xmas and hopefully implemented by June 2021, then it makes perfect sense.

I’m not advocating the UK strategy.... you realise the rest of Europe isn’t “locked down” waiting for eradication.

Also the misrepresentation of risk is plainly anti science , if that’s your argument (it seems to be) infection doesn’t relate to death as you’ve attempted.

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:27 am Eradication is nonsense if that is the end game. But if we think there is a vaccine on the horizon, and I am of the opinion from what I have read, that one will be in place by around Xmas and hopefully implemented by June 2021, then it makes perfect sense.

You cannot shut down an economy for
A year. You cannot make
People stay home for a year . It’s ridiculous.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:48 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:27 am Eradication is nonsense if that is the end game. But if we think there is a vaccine on the horizon, and I am of the opinion from what I have read, that one will be in place by around Xmas and hopefully implemented by June 2021, then it makes perfect sense.

You cannot shut down an economy for
A year. You cannot make
People stay home for a year . It’s ridiculous.

But we aren’t doing that Bimbo. We have shut Vic down for 6 weeks and there might be another 4 weeks as a Way to reduce the cases to as near to 0 as we can. Then we go back to work and open the economy. It’s painful for a while. It’s not for a year. It’s as short a period as possible. If there is an outbreak we manage it and contain it. That might mean periods of pain but they are not long periods.

No one said it would be for a year. Just you. I said that a plan of eradication indefinitely doesn’t work. That involves opening and closing businesses as Covid outbreaks occur. But we are not anticipating that to last forever. It hopefully will be over in less than a year.

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:42 am

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:48 am

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:27 am Eradication is nonsense if that is the end game. But if we think there is a vaccine on the horizon, and I am of the opinion from what I have read, that one will be in place by around Xmas and hopefully implemented by June 2021, then it makes perfect sense.

You cannot shut down an economy for
A year. You cannot make
People stay home for a year . It’s ridiculous.

But we aren’t doing that Bimbo. We have shut Vic down for 6 weeks and there might be another 4 weeks as a Way to reduce the cases to as near to 0 as we can. Then we go back to work and open the economy. It’s painful for a while. It’s not for a year. It’s as short a period as possible. If there is an outbreak we manage it and contain it. That might mean periods of pain but they are not long periods.

No one said it would be for a year. Just you. I said that a plan of eradication indefinitely doesn’t work. That involves opening and closing businesses as Covid outbreaks occur. But we are not anticipating that to last forever. It hopefully will be over in less than a year.

It’s madness though to think you can open and close business like that. Also as we are learning here “cases” isn’t a particularly useful measure for this.

If there isn’t a vaccine option, every time you open then they’ll be “cases” flying into any location with an open economy and travel.

The plan you’re following by the way is pretty damm similar to the UK’s which as you point out didn’t work.

Yes. I said, if there is a solution it makes sense, if not it doesn’t. I completely agree with you that if there is no end in site then opening and closing businesses won’t work. But I, and many many others, think that is not the case.
I literally said that I think there will be a vaccine discovered and implemented by mid next year. If that is the case then 9 months is doable as we might not need to close businesses again after getting through this current crisis.

Well, the UK is opening up now while case numbers are still high.
The UK also massively dragged their feet in closing down initially.
Now the UK is pursuing a trace and suppress strategy. We are going for elimination, similar to the kiwis.

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:03 pm Yes. I said, if there is a solution it makes sense, if not it doesn’t. I completely agree with you that if there is no end in site then opening and closing businesses won’t work. But I, and many many others, think that is not the case.
I literally said that I think there will be a vaccine discovered and implemented by mid next year. If that is the case then 9 months is doable as we might not need to close businesses again after getting through this current crisis.

9 months more is not doable by any stretch , either financially (the cities in particular will die), not socially. Suicides and cancer deaths here far outstrip covid and have done for months.

The disease takes the elderly and infirm, protect them and get on with it. Plus of course no successful vaccine has ever been found for a Corona virus.

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:04 pm Well, the UK is opening up now while case numbers are still high.
The UK also massively dragged their feet in closing down initially.
Now the UK is pursuing a trace and suppress strategy. We are going for elimination, similar to the kiwis.

The UK was maybe a week late in closing down not “massively “ anything seriously there’s no need to exaggerate this stuff.

You can not eliminate the virus unless you close your borders for ever.

Who has made people stay home a year?

I would gently suggest that engaging with Bimbo is a fruitless quest that will drag you round and round in endlessly circular arguments and shifting goalposts. Best to just walk away whistling Dixie.

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:26 pm I would gently suggest that engaging with Bimbo is a fruitless quest that will drag you round and round in endlessly circular arguments and shifting goalposts. Best to just walk away whistling Dixie.

I support this thinking, there’s no way I’ll convince anyone that the current Victoria lock down isn’t proportionate or sensible.


I’m not moving any goal posts though. Just stating that eradication of a Virus by closing society isn’t sensible or in the case of an open western democracy possible.

This isn’t a circular argument. It’s astonishing watching intelligent people support non scientific and authoritarian crap.

Don’t worry the big “gotcha” will be how shite the UK is.

I got chased out of the UK/Ireland covid thread that wasn't labelled as such (I thought was it was a global thread) for simply posting QLD's daily infection counts as i do on this one. Bimbo's countrymen accused me of trolling dead British people for doing this. I took their feeback and left that thread and started this one. Bimboman, will you do the same?

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:26 pm I would gently suggest that engaging with Bimbo is a fruitless quest that will drag you round and round in endlessly circular arguments and shifting goalposts. Best to just walk away whistling Dixie.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:10 pm I got chased out of the UK/Ireland covid thread that wasn't labelled as such (I thought was it was a global thread) for simply posting QLD's daily infection counts as i do on this one. Bimbo's countrymen accused me of trolling dead British people for doing this. I took their feeback and left that thread and started this one. Bimboman, will you do the same?

Dear god at least read my posts if you’re going to “chase me off”

I support this thinking, there’s no way I’ll convince anyone that the current Victoria lock down isn’t proportionate or sensible.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:33 pm

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:26 pm I would gently suggest that engaging with Bimbo is a fruitless quest that will drag you round and round in endlessly circular arguments and shifting goalposts. Best to just walk away whistling Dixie.

I support this thinking, there’s no way I’ll convince anyone that the current Victoria lock down isn’t proportionate or sensible.


I’m not moving any goal posts though. Just stating that eradication of a Virus by closing society isn’t sensible or in the case of an open western democracy possible.

This isn’t a circular argument. It’s astonishing watching intelligent people support non scientific and authoritarian crap.

Don’t worry the big “gotcha” will be how shite the UK is.

The current lockdown in Victoria is entirely sensible.

It never fails to bemuse me how people miles away with no clue confidently assert shit they have no right to talk about.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:15 pm

Farva wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:03 pm Yes. I said, if there is a solution it makes sense, if not it doesn’t. I completely agree with you that if there is no end in site then opening and closing businesses won’t work. But I, and many many others, think that is not the case.
I literally said that I think there will be a vaccine discovered and implemented by mid next year. If that is the case then 9 months is doable as we might not need to close businesses again after getting through this current crisis.

9 months more is not doable by any stretch , either financially (the cities in particular will die), not socially. Suicides and cancer deaths here far outstrip covid and have done for months.

The disease takes the elderly and infirm, protect them and get on with it. Plus of course no successful vaccine has ever been found for a Corona virus.

It’s not lockdown for 9 months, it’s lockdown for 2 more weeks. Then start relaxing restrictions. The other states are open with economies going back to normal. When an outbreak is identified it’s tighten in that location. That is what we are doing.

We have demonstrated an inability to protect our vulnerable. It got in to the aged care and that is where the deaths came from.

And a coronavirus vaccine has been found just not for people.

Good data, and apparently 12 of this 70 were reclassified cases from days ago, so the real daily total was 58.

More solid data from QLD

Hmmmm, not sure what to make of NSW's data

NSW is playing whackamole, with reasonable success, and without ramping up restrictions.

The latest mole being whacked is a Thai restaurant in Newtown.

NSW Health has issued a warning for the It's Time for Thai restaurant in Newtown after a diner tested positive to COVID-19.

Anyone who has visited the restaurant is considered a close contact and must get tested and isolate for 14 days since they were there.

The confirmed case visited the King Street restaurant on August 28 between 5.00pm and 8.00pm.

The restaurant has been closed for cleaning.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-01/ ... 1/12614218

Ellafan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:29 am NSW is playing whackamole, with reasonable success, and without ramping up restrictions.

The latest mole being whacked is a Thai restaurant in Newtown.

NSW Health has issued a warning for the It's Time for Thai restaurant in Newtown after a diner tested positive to COVID-19.

Anyone who has visited the restaurant is considered a close contact and must get tested and isolate for 14 days since they were there.

The confirmed case visited the King Street restaurant on August 28 between 5.00pm and 8.00pm.

The restaurant has been closed for cleaning.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-01/ ... 1/12614218

NSW is certainly seemingly managing the spread of infection very well, and full credit must go to the Govt and Health Dept. It is a worry though that there is a steady stream of new infections daily. Whilst the numbers continue to be relatively low, you'd have to think that all it would take would be for the virus to get into a big workplace, factory or aged care facility and things could get very serious very quickly. Anyway, at the moment NSW is keeping on top of things nicely.

The numbers in NSW are starting to worry me.

That's because the premier is too piss-weak to enforce mandatory face masks on Public Transport and Uber.

Needs to happen

mat the expat wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:12 am That's because the premier is too piss-weak to enforce mandatory face masks on Public Transport and Uber.

Needs to happen

???


Last time I caught an uber there was a sign on the (rear passenger ) window saying 'no mask-no ride'.

How high do NSW's daily numbers need to get before people start worrying? 50? 100?

Ellafan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am

mat the expat wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:12 am That's because the premier is too piss-weak to enforce mandatory face masks on Public Transport and Uber.

Needs to happen

???


Last time I caught an uber there was a sign on the (rear passenger ) window saying 'no mask-no ride'.

That isnt government legislation

Back in triple digits in Victoria, but still lower than a month ago.

Those harsh lockdowns look like they will be extended beyond 13th September. Nearly 5 weeks in and still having daily increases over 100 cases is mind boggling. The state could easily add another 4 weeks on as I doubt anything will be eased until daily cases reach the low teens.

JPNZ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:17 am Those harsh lockdowns look like they will be extended beyond 13th September. Nearly 5 weeks in and still having daily increases over 100 cases is mind boggling. The state could easily add another 4 weeks on as I doubt anything will be eased until daily cases reach the low teens.

To be fair, it took 2 weeks to start seeing cases drop - we peaked around 2 weeks ago. In 2 weeks we have dropped from 700 a day down to 100. We have nearly 2 weeks to go and I think case numbers will fall a lot more.
THere is also a ton of political pressure to open up so I fully expect that we will see restrictions reduced on the 13 Sept. Whether that is the right thing to do is another question.

JPNZ wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:17 am Those harsh lockdowns look like they will be extended beyond 13th September. Nearly 5 weeks in and still having daily increases over 100 cases is mind boggling. The state could easily add another 4 weeks on as I doubt anything will be eased until daily cases reach the low teens.

It's a persistent bugger that's for sure.

Of course, Bimbot could probably fix the issue