NPR

GogLais wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:30 pm Use of the passive form instead of the active. According to the BBC there's been a plea for Assange to be released "because he's become a father" as though he had nothing to do with it.

What would the active be? 'because he became a father'?

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:36 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:30 pm Use of the passive form instead of the active. According to the BBC there's been a plea for Assange to be released "because he's become a father" as though he had nothing to do with it.

What would the active be? 'because he became a father'?

He fathered a child.

People who don't thank you for holding the door for them. Even worse, at a set of doors when people don't thank you, then walk through the door ahead and don't hold it for you!

QQ: Would it be considered overly aggressive to reach through the door and pull said person back through it by the collar?

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:04 pm People who don't thank you for holding the door for them. Even worse, at a set of doors when people don't thank you, then walk through the door ahead and don't hold it for you!

QQ: Would it be considered overly aggressive to reach through the door and pull said person back through it by the collar?

Speaking of doors, people who don't realise that you can use both leaves of double doors. It's not rocket science.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:04 pm People who don't thank you for holding the door for them. Even worse, at a set of doors when people don't thank you, then walk through the door ahead and don't hold it for you!

QQ: Would it be considered overly aggressive to reach through the door and pull said person back through it by the collar?

I think correct etiquette calls for you to pull them back by their hair.

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:36 pmVegans

I'm going to bite.....why?

I guess one of my things to be annoyed about is sweeping generalisations?

And bad driving.

GogLais wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:36 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:30 pm Use of the passive form instead of the active. According to the BBC there's been a plea for Assange to be released "because he's become a father" as though he had nothing to do with it.

What would the active be? 'because he became a father'?

He fathered a child.

Doesn't the tense cause a problem there. "because he's become a father" suggests this is a new situation, a change in circumstances. "because he fathered a child" could've happened at any point.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:44 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:36 pm

What would the active be? 'because he became a father'?

He fathered a child.

Doesn't the tense cause a problem there. "because he's become a father" suggests this is a new situation, a change in circumstances. "because he fathered a child" could've happened at any point.

Good point, add "recently" to "fathered a child". I suppose I have puritan views about fatherhood, it's something you do, not something that happens to you.

GogLais wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:44 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm

He fathered a child.

Doesn't the tense cause a problem there. "because he's become a father" suggests this is a new situation, a change in circumstances. "because he fathered a child" could've happened at any point.

Good point, add "recently" to "fathered a child". I suppose I have puritan views about fatherhood, it's something you do, not something that happens to you.

I get that. I would have thought the passive voice in this case wouldn't be about a change in his status, but more along the lines of "a child has been fathered". In the original sentence it's still clear that he is the cause!

I think maybe I'm just too used to the really egregious examples that come from police forces. "A person was injured during an officer-involved shooting" and all that.

https://reason.com/2020/01/28/passive-v ... olice-car/
EUGH

“Because he fathered a child” just sounds silly. As would, “She’s mothered a child.”

We might say a mum “has just given birth” but there’s no equivalent for the dad at that particular moment. So on the birth of a kid, for the dad, “...has become a dad” sounds perfectly fine.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:03 am “Because he fathered a child” just sounds silly. As would, “She’s mothered a child.”

We might say a mum “has just given birth” but there’s no equivalent for the dad at that particular moment. So on the birth of a kid, for the dad, “...has become a dad” sounds perfectly fine.

"Fathered a child" is quite a common phrase, though. I've never heard "mothering" with that meaning.

However, to me, "fathering a child" implies having little more to do with the child than being a sperm donor, "became a dad" implies being part of a family.

Yeah, good call. “ Has just become a dad” sounds right.

I’m an English teacher and the only thing that grinds my gears is people who pontificate about using English properly, and lament a supposed dropping away in standards.

Language evolves, constantly spiraling off into interesting mutations. That’s what makes it great.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 am Yeah, good call. “ Has just become a dad” sounds right.

I’m an English teacher and the only thing that grinds my gears is people who pontificate about using English properly, and lament a supposed dropping away in standards.

Language evolves, constantly spiraling off into interesting mutations. That’s what makes it great.

Good shout, but I must say I do share the poms' frustration with yanks taking logical sayings and buggering them up.

"I could care less" being one such example. David Mitchell has had quite a good rant about this.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:33 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 am Yeah, good call. “ Has just become a dad” sounds right.

I’m an English teacher and the only thing that grinds my gears is people who pontificate about using English properly, and lament a supposed dropping away in standards.

Language evolves, constantly spiraling off into interesting mutations. That’s what makes it great.

Good shout, but I must say I do share the poms' frustration with yanks taking logical sayings and buggering them up.

"I could care less" being one such example. David Mitchell has had quite a good rant about this.

I can see why that would grate. But language often veers off from logic anyway. What does the “It’s” in “It’s raining” take the place of? The sentence makes no logical sense, but conveys meaning perfectly well. The same with, “I could care less”. It conveys meaning perfectly well in context, even if it’s daft in terms of logic.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:28 am

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:33 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 am Yeah, good call. “ Has just become a dad” sounds right.

I’m an English teacher and the only thing that grinds my gears is people who pontificate about using English properly, and lament a supposed dropping away in standards.

Language evolves, constantly spiraling off into interesting mutations. That’s what makes it great.

Good shout, but I must say I do share the poms' frustration with yanks taking logical sayings and buggering them up.

"I could care less" being one such example. David Mitchell has had quite a good rant about this.

I can see why that would grate. But language often veers off from logic anyway. What does the “It’s” in “It’s raining” take the place of? The sentence makes no logical sense, but conveys meaning perfectly well. The same with, “I could care less”. It conveys meaning perfectly well in context, even if it’s daft in terms of logic.

Isn't "it" "the weather" in that case? - the weather is raining, the weather is hot, the weather is snowing etc.

In French they use the "to do" verb for weather, "it does some sunshine", "it does rain", it makes sense when you hear it from birth but it sounds clunky as a learner from another language.

I'm all for evolution of language, I have no problem with using a verb as a noun*, "verbing" if you will, but "I could care less" winds me up beyond reason.

*though when someone suggested "let's beer" I felt like smashing his face in.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:04 pm People who don't thank you for holding the door for them. Even worse, at a set of doors when people don't thank you, then walk through the door ahead and don't hold it for you!

QQ: Would it be considered overly aggressive to reach through the door and pull said person back through it by the collar?

I remember holding the door open for a girl in a nightclub years ago. She literally looked at me in disgust and tutted. I remember being quite flabbergasted - more so when my best mate married her a few years later

Mr Bubble Gum wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:57 am

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:04 pm People who don't thank you for holding the door for them. Even worse, at a set of doors when people don't thank you, then walk through the door ahead and don't hold it for you!

QQ: Would it be considered overly aggressive to reach through the door and pull said person back through it by the collar?

I remember holding the door open for a girl in a nightclub years ago. She literally looked at me in disgust and tutted. I remember being quite flabbergasted - more so when my best mate married her a few years later

Just how ugly are you?!

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that her disgust was because she took offence at a man daring to suggest that, as a strong, powerful and independent woman, she was incapable of opening the door on her own. If so then there's every likelihood that she is uglier than him, and may well have had blue or red hair.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:54 pm

Mr Bubble Gum wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:57 am

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:04 pm People who don't thank you for holding the door for them. Even worse, at a set of doors when people don't thank you, then walk through the door ahead and don't hold it for you!

QQ: Would it be considered overly aggressive to reach through the door and pull said person back through it by the collar?

I remember holding the door open for a girl in a nightclub years ago. She literally looked at me in disgust and tutted. I remember being quite flabbergasted - more so when my best mate married her a few years later

Just how ugly are you?!

Oh, I was an absolute dish back then, that’s one of the reasons I was so dumbfounded

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:25 pm I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that her disgust was because she took offence at a man daring to suggest that, as a strong, powerful and independent woman, she was incapable of opening the door on her own. If so then there's every likelihood that she is uglier than him, and may well have had blue or red hair.

This is a fair assessment, although she’s far from ugly. My initial impression - that she was a bit of a daft bastard has been underlined on numerous occasions over the ensuing years, sadly.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:25 pm I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that her disgust was because she took offence at a man daring to suggest that, as a strong, powerful and independent woman, she was incapable of opening the door on her own. If so then there's every likelihood that she is uglier than him, and may well have had blue or red hair.

I was making a joke.

Ooo you bitch!

I got a 3 piece box of KFC last night for the first time in 12 months. Inside was a tiny wing, a drumstick and an unidentified part of dirty bird. Yeah, that annoyed me.

Night flies.

Trapper wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:04 pm I got a 3 piece box of KFC last night for the first time in 12 months. Inside was a tiny wing, a drumstick and an unidentified part of dirty bird. Yeah, that annoyed me.

KFC is always disappointing - never as nice as you remember

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:28 am

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:33 am

Good shout, but I must say I do share the poms' frustration with yanks taking logical sayings and buggering them up.

"I could care less" being one such example. David Mitchell has had quite a good rant about this.

I can see why that would grate. But language often veers off from logic anyway. What does the “It’s” in “It’s raining” take the place of? The sentence makes no logical sense, but conveys meaning perfectly well. The same with, “I could care less”. It conveys meaning perfectly well in context, even if it’s daft in terms of logic.

Isn't "it" "the weather" in that case? - the weather is raining, the weather is hot, the weather is snowing etc.

In French they use the "to do" verb for weather, "it does some sunshine", "it does rain", it makes sense when you hear it from birth but it sounds clunky as a learner from another language.

I'm all for evolution of language, I have no problem with using a verb as a noun*, "verbing" if you will, but "I could care less" winds me up beyond reason.

*though when someone suggested "let's beer" I felt like smashing his face in.

Am I missing something here? "It's" ins simply a contraction of "it is", in this instances, a shortening of "it is raining" to "it's raining". Not to be confused with 'its .... is raining down on ..."

mat the expat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm

Trapper wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:04 pm I got a 3 piece box of KFC last night for the first time in 12 months. Inside was a tiny wing, a drumstick and an unidentified part of dirty bird. Yeah, that annoyed me.

KFC is always disappointing - never as nice as you remember

It's downright fowl.

mat the expat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm

Trapper wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:04 pm I got a 3 piece box of KFC last night for the first time in 12 months. Inside was a tiny wing, a drumstick and an unidentified part of dirty bird. Yeah, that annoyed me.

KFC is always disappointing - never as nice as you remember

I find small independent food shops do a much better job of fried chicken, generally speaking.

mat the expat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm

Trapper wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:04 pm I got a 3 piece box of KFC last night for the first time in 12 months. Inside was a tiny wing, a drumstick and an unidentified part of dirty bird. Yeah, that annoyed me.

KFC is always disappointing - never as nice as you remember

My father-in-law is battling cancer and on the home straight. Daughter went in to see him yesterday and watched him try to eat - he couldn't stomach the hospital food.

She said she would go and get KFC, taters and gravy and the nurse gave her a great thumbs up.

Went to KFC in Wellington South and said that she was placing the order and it would be Roy's last ever KFC and would they make it their best ever. She only wanted 2 pieces and she said that they were absolutely awesome. The store manager wouldn't let her pay. He scoffed it down and had a huge smile when she left, and so did the nurse.

That doesn't annoy me ... but I hate KFC.

Ted. wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:42 pm

mat the expat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm

Trapper wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:04 pm I got a 3 piece box of KFC last night for the first time in 12 months. Inside was a tiny wing, a drumstick and an unidentified part of dirty bird. Yeah, that annoyed me.

KFC is always disappointing - never as nice as you remember

It's downright fowl.

Edward - can I shout you a lunch early next week?

Logged in to work, had to change password afterwards but couldn't for the life of me remember what password was to change, despite having just entered it.

Had to zone out and let muscle memory do it.

Would love to know what causes that blank.

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:17 am Logged in to work, had to change password afterwards but couldn't for the life of me remember what password was to change, despite having just entered it.

Had to zone out and let muscle memory do it.

Would love to know what causes that blank.

Have you been tested for the bad kind of AIDS?

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:17 am Logged in to work, had to change password afterwards but couldn't for the life of me remember what password was to change, despite having just entered it.

Had to zone out and let muscle memory do it.

Would love to know what causes that blank.

That's what Post-its are for

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:58 am
Have you been tested for the bad kind of AIDS?

Next blood donation on the 25th so I'll get it done for free.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:19 am

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:17 am Logged in to work, had to change password afterwards but couldn't for the life of me remember what password was to change, despite having just entered it.

Had to zone out and let muscle memory do it.

Would love to know what causes that blank.

That's what Post-its are for

Ok boomer

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 am Yeah, good call. “ Has just become a dad” sounds right.

I’m an English teacher and the only thing that grinds my gears is people who pontificate about using English properly, and lament a supposed dropping away in standards.

Language evolves, constantly spiraling off into interesting mutations. That’s what makes it great.

Language is for communication.

As such, it should be fairly rigidly defined.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:08 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 am Yeah, good call. “ Has just become a dad” sounds right.

I’m an English teacher and the only thing that grinds my gears is people who pontificate about using English properly, and lament a supposed dropping away in standards.

Language evolves, constantly spiraling off into interesting mutations. That’s what makes it great.

Language is for communication.

As such, it should be fairly rigidly defined.

All due respect, but this is simplistic hogwash.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:42 am

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:08 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 am Yeah, good call. “ Has just become a dad” sounds right.

I’m an English teacher and the only thing that grinds my gears is people who pontificate about using English properly, and lament a supposed dropping away in standards.

Language evolves, constantly spiraling off into interesting mutations. That’s what makes it great.

Language is for communication.

As such, it should be fairly rigidly defined.

All due respect, but this is simplistic hogwash.

Well, what is language used for if not for communication?

The fact that we have multiple languages in the world today is a result of human communication developing outside of rigidly defined parameters.

Multiple languages are a barrier to universal understanding and underpin tribal divisions which fuel conflict and inhibit the spread of scientific knowledge.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:22 am
Well, what is language used for if not for communication?

The fact that we have multiple languages in the world today is a result of human communication developing outside of rigidly defined parameters.

Multiple languages are a barrier to universal understanding and underpin tribal divisions which fuel conflict and inhibit the spread of scientific knowledge.

I agree that language is for communication.

But one of the core characteristics of language is that it doesn't fit "rigidly defined parameters". It's endlessly creative and evolving.

Whether you see that as good or bad is beside the point. It's what language is.

I don't agree, I'm afraid.

In the past, yes; language evolved organically in an unstructured way because there was no template which defined it.

These days everybody has a computer.