Rich countries are hoarding vaccines: 51% of doses reserved by 15% of world's population

[Fangle]

False Bay, why didn’t your country order it when all other countries did? Surely the blame should be put squarely on the shoulders of those in your country who are responsible, rather than others who followed the protocol?

[FalseBayFC]

Fangle, probably because of this:

Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'

Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years

[Openside]

Mrs Saint expecting dose 1 in the next couple of weeks. They're using NHS Nurses to mop up un-used Pfizer at the end of each day (due to no-shows, excess vaccine in vials, people disqualifying due to previously unannounced medical conditions etc)

Quite impressed withe the foresight TBH

Quite they should allowed worried people to Queue at the end of the day to mop up any unused vaccine. Any waste is criminal.

[Sandstorm]

Mrs Saint expecting dose 1 in the next couple of weeks. They're using NHS Nurses to mop up un-used Pfizer at the end of each day (due to no-shows, excess vaccine in vials, people disqualifying due to previously unannounced medical conditions etc)

Quite impressed withe the foresight TBH

Quite they should allowed worried people to Queue at the end of the day to mop up any unused vaccine. Any waste is criminal.

It’s like Wimbledon

[Fangle]

Fangle, probably because of this:

Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'

Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years

And is SA joining in the negotiations? This is important to me too as I have 4 siblings and their spouses who are over 70 living in South Africa.

[Sandstorm]

Fangle, probably because of this:

Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'

Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years

And is SA joining in the negotiations? This is important to me too as I have 4 siblings and their spouses who are over 70 living in South Africa.

There will be “Racist!” calls from all over SA soon, not just the False Bay area.

[FalseBayFC]

Fangle, probably because of this:

Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'

Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years

And is SA joining in the negotiations? This is important to me too as I have 4 siblings and their spouses who are over 70 living in South Africa.

From what I read our gov is in bilateral negotiations with all the vaccine producers. I am hoping the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is successful, a SA drug mfr called Aspen is mooted to produce 300 million courses a year if so. This doesn't guarantee us access.

[Marylandolorian]

To falsebay,
Because my country put 10s of Billions of $ for the vaccine research with the US and my tax money .

Read this : https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explain ... index.html

[Fangle]

Fangle, probably because of this:

Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'

Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years

And is SA joining in the negotiations? This is important to me too as I have 4 siblings and their spouses who are over 70 living in South Africa.

From what I read our gov is in bilateral negotiations with all the vaccine producers. I am hoping the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is successful, a SA drug mfr called Aspen is mooted to produce 300 million courses a year if so. This doesn't guarantee us access.

The vaccine best suited to rural SA, and indeed any rural area is the Oxford one which doesn’t require refrigeration. The first vaccine has to be stored at -70 degrees whic is really difficult to roll out except for the more sophisticated places.

[FalseBayFC]

I am also most worried for my parents and in-laws who are all in their eighties. Not just the risk to their physical health but self-isolating is putting a big mental strain on them. The good news is that I am confident our private sector medicine will handle distribution of the vaccine to those who can afford it quite easily. We also have good experience in rural areas in dealing with TB and HIV so I think we are better positioned to roll out than people think. Only the Pfizer vacc has the extreme cold requirement and our President has said that we can't afford that anyway.

[FalseBayFC]

To falsebay,
Because my country put 10s of Billions of $ for the vaccine research with the US and my tax money .

Read this : https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explain ... index.html

Fair enough. We are prepared to pay good money for it. Lots of testing was done on thousands South African volunteers who put their lives at risk to trial unknown drugs for Pfizer, Astra Zeneca and Ozford. This was done free of charge.

[Random1]

Find this conversation fascinating.

It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.

Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.

Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.

So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?

[Saint]

To falsebay,
Because my country put 10s of Billions of $ for the vaccine research with the US and my tax money .

Read this : https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explain ... index.html

Fair enough. We are prepared to pay good money for it. Lots of testing was done on thousands South African volunteers who put their lives at risk to trial unknown drugs for Pfizer, Astra Zeneca and Ozford. This was done free of charge.

Lot's of trials were run globally on volunteers. By the time any trial was started in SA they were known to be (relatively) safe. These trials were run to determine efficacy, not safety. Nothing was stopping SA negotiating an order in May or June?

[Saint]

Find this conversation fascinating.

It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.

Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.

Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.

So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?

I'be been having a running debate with someone on a completely different forum who thinks that because AZ was developed in the UK, all global manufacturing of the AZ vaccine should be reserved for the UK until our requirements our met. I keep telling her not to be such a self entitled prat, but she's not getting it

[FalseBayFC]

Find this conversation fascinating.

It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.

Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.

Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.

So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?

My point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.

[Ymx]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... cine-delay

Health Leaders Ask S. Africa to Axe Officials on Vaccine Lag

Some of South Africa’s most senior medical leaders and academics have called for President Cyril Ramaphosa to fire government officials over delays in procuring Covid-19 vaccines, saying their actions will cause thousands of deaths and untold economic damage.

While at least 29 countries, from Mexico to Germany, have begun inoculating their populations against the virus, South Africa has yet to conclude any supply agreements with pharmaceutical companies. Kenya, a far poorer country than South Africa, expects to get vaccine deliveries at the end of January or next month, Nairobi’s Standard newspaper reported on Sunday, citing the country’s health secretary. It didn’t specify which vaccine.

Will heads roll?

[Marylandolorian]

To falsebay,
Because my country put 10s of Billions of $ for the vaccine research with the US and my tax money .

Read this : https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explain ... index.html

Fair enough. We are prepared to pay good money for it. Lots of testing was done on thousands South African volunteers who put their lives at risk to trial unknown drugs for Pfizer, Astra Zeneca and Ozford. This was done free of charge.

Alright then, we had thousands of volunteers too, but about 30% of my salary goes to Uncle Sam and I surely hope that I can get an US made or founded vaccine before the rest of the world population.

Your thread reminded this and this will be it for me .

Some years ago a small rural town in Spain twinned with a similar town in South Africa.

The Mayor of the South African town visited the Spanish town. When he saw the palatial mansion belonging to the Spanish mayor he wondered how he could afford such a house.
The Spaniard said; "You see that bridge over there? The EU gave us a grant to build a four-lane bridge, but by building a single lane bridge with traffic lights at either end this house could be built".

The following year the Spaniard visited the South African town. He was simply amazed at the South African Mayor's house- gold taps, marble floors, it was marvellous. When he asked how this could be afforded the
South African said; "You see that bridge over there?"

The Spaniard replied; "No?"

[Saint]

Find this conversation fascinating.

It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.

Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.

Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.

So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?

My point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.

Brazil were part of the same phase 3 trials SA were. They went and negotiated a license with AZ to produce 100 million doses for their own consumption. And their president doesn't even believe Covid is a real thing

[FalseBayFC]

The story is actually originally about a Greek and Spanish Mayor. By the way, how is the border wall going in Texas? How much of your tax money went towards building that?

[FalseBayFC]

Find this conversation fascinating.

It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.

Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.

Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.

So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?

My point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.

Brazil were part of the same phase 3 trials SA were. They went and negotiated a license with AZ to produce 100 million doses for their own consumption. And their president doesn't even believe Covid is a real thing

AZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.

[Ymx]

“Public acknowledgment by officials that they didn’t think it prudent to begin bilateral negotiations with vaccine suppliers because they could not ‘take the risk’ of ordering vaccines in the event they would not work is shockingly disingenuous,” the health leaders said.

They also criticized the so-called ministerial advisory committee, a group of scientists appointed by Health Minister Zweli Mkhize, for echoing the government’s arguments.

[Raggs]

AZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.

Because other countries have already paid for their expected production for the entire year.

[FalseBayFC]

“Public acknowledgment by officials that they didn’t think it prudent to begin bilateral negotiations with vaccine suppliers because they could not ‘take the risk’ of ordering vaccines in the event they would not work is shockingly disingenuous,” the health leaders said.

They also criticized the so-called ministerial advisory committee, a group of scientists appointed by Health Minister Zweli Mkhize, for echoing the government’s arguments.

Our politicians are absolute fuckups I agree.

[FalseBayFC]

AZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.

Because other countries have already paid for their expected production for the entire year.

Why are they ordering amounts in excess of their requirement?

[Saint]

My point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.

Brazil were part of the same phase 3 trials SA were. They went and negotiated a license with AZ to produce 100 million doses for their own consumption. And their president doesn't even believe Covid is a real thing

AZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.

AZ doesn't have any available vaccine for Brazil either, and yet they will have 100 million doses. Read what I wrote again.

[FalseBayFC]

5 billion doses of vaccine or half of global production has been ordered by 13 percent of the worlds population consisting of the 27 EU states and 5 other rich countries.

Canada , for instance has ordered 9 doses per person. Canadians ey? No wonder there's none left for us.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03370-6

[Saint]

5 billion doses of vaccine or half of global production has been ordered by 13 percent of the worlds population consisting of the 27 EU states and 5 other rich countries.

Canada , for instance has ordered 9 doses per person. Canadians ey? No wonder there's none left for us.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03370-6

The thing is though that almost all the vaccine that you're talking about is still currently theoretical. It's vapourware. It simply doesn't exist, and for most countries, they haven't even approved what they've bought and won't receive for 12+ months for use.

Right at this moment in time, there's maybe 7-8 million doses of any approved vaccine in the whole world (I'm excluding China for the moment), plus 100 million or so India. By the end of January the total number will have double or so. The chances that even
1.5 billion will have been manufactured by the end of 2021, unless another 3 or 4 vaccines are approved and can manufacture at scale, are fairly slim. There simply isn't nowhere near enough to go round, and unless you concentrate it in dense populations you won't get here immunity benefits, which multiply the benefit

[FalseBayFC]

5 billion doses of vaccine or half of global production has been ordered by 13 percent of the worlds population consisting of the 27 EU states and 5 other rich countries.

Canada , for instance has ordered 9 doses per person. Canadians ey? No wonder there's none left for us.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03370-6

The thing is though that almost all the vaccine that you're talking about is still currently theoretical. It's vapourware. It simply doesn't exist, and for most countries, they haven't even approved what they've bought and won't receive for 12+ months for use.

Right at this moment in time, there's maybe 7-8 million doses of any approved vaccine in the whole world (I'm excluding China for the moment), plus 100 million or so India. By the end of January the total number will have double or so. The chances that even
1.5 billion will have been manufactured by the end of 2021, unless another 3 or 4 vaccines are approved and can manufacture at scale, are fairly slim. There simply isn't nowhere near enough to go round, and unless you concentrate it in dense populations you won't get here immunity benefits, which multiply the benefit

I don't dispute that. I am also pretty sure that once the rich countries have vaccinated their populations and the drug companies have recouped their r & d, the surplus will be ditched on the open markets. Trouble is, if we have to wait another year to get access, we'll have another 50000 dead and a torched economy.

Vaccine nationalism is extremely short sighted and might ultimately be equivalent to toilet paper panic buying. The ultimate economic stimulus would be for the rich countries to accelerate vaccine access for all countries.

[Saint]

5 billion doses of vaccine or half of global production has been ordered by 13 percent of the worlds population consisting of the 27 EU states and 5 other rich countries.

Canada , for instance has ordered 9 doses per person. Canadians ey? No wonder there's none left for us.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03370-6

The thing is though that almost all the vaccine that you're talking about is still currently theoretical. It's vapourware. It simply doesn't exist, and for most countries, they haven't even approved what they've bought and won't receive for 12+ months for use.

Right at this moment in time, there's maybe 7-8 million doses of any approved vaccine in the whole world (I'm excluding China for the moment), plus 100 million or so India. By the end of January the total number will have double or so. The chances that even
1.5 billion will have been manufactured by the end of 2021, unless another 3 or 4 vaccines are approved and can manufacture at scale, are fairly slim. There simply isn't nowhere near enough to go round, and unless you concentrate it in dense populations you won't get here immunity benefits, which multiply the benefit

I don't dispute that. I am also pretty sure that once the rich countries have vaccinated their populations and the drug companies have recouped their r & d, the surplus will be ditched on the open markets. Trouble is, if we have to wait another year to get access, we'll have another 50000 dead and a torched economy.

Vaccine nationalism is extremely short sighted and might ultimately be equivalent to toilet paper panic buying. The ultimate economic stimulus would be for the rich countries to accelerate vaccine access for all countries.

And if you had an "equitable" share then you will likely have another 49,900 dead. And globally there would be far more dead overall as nowhere would have any herd immunity benefit.

[Raggs]

Richer countries have also invested a lot of money buying vaccines that they didn't know would work. Countries now appear to have surplus, because they bought into multiple options early.

[Sandstorm]

Imagine the stress of living in a war zone like Syria or having your whole town destroyed by an earthquake like in Turkey a few months ago?

1 year socially isolating in your own house is a piece of piss in comparison.

People who spent 6 years in Western Europe in 39-45 are also ashamed at the moaning going on today.

[FalseBayFC]

Imagine the stress of living in a war zone like Syria or having your whole town destroyed by an earthquake like in Turkey a few months ago?

1 year socially isolating in your own house is a piece of piss in comparison.

People who spent 6 years in Western Europe in 39-45 are also ashamed at the moaning going on today.

My in laws were born in Poland in WW2 and lived through communism. My parents lost their business in Zim. They've lived through enough shit and being socially isolated when you're in your eighties is not a piece of cake. Its a psychological trauma the young can endure, not so easy for the elderly.

[Sandstorm]

Imagine the stress of living in a war zone like Syria or having your whole town destroyed by an earthquake like in Turkey a few months ago?

1 year socially isolating in your own house is a piece of piss in comparison.

People who spent 6 years in Western Europe in 39-45 are also ashamed at the moaning going on today.

My in laws were born in Poland in WW2 and lived through communism. My parents lost their business in Zim. They've lived through enough shit and being socially isolated when you're in your eighties is not a piece of cake. Its a psychological trauma the young can endure, not so easy for the elderly.

No, apparently kids will suffer irreparable damage from 2020 too.

[Chrysoprase]

Richer countries have also invested a lot of money buying vaccines that they didn't know would work. Countries now appear to have surplus, because they bought into multiple options early.

Yeah this point has been made a few times on this thread now, along with the fact that the countries involved are hedging their bets in case one of the vaccines doesn't work - they want to have enough of the others to ensure all of their citizens are protected.

But the OP is ignoring this because it doesn't suit his narrative.

[Enzedder]

Is the South African Government waiting until there is a world surplus and they can charge drug companies to take it off their hands - and build a bridge with the money raised?

[Green light echo]

Find this conversation fascinating.

It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.

Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.

Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.

So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?

My point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.

FalseBay in the world is not just shocker.

TIA is it not.

Nuff said.

[Enzedder]

Aussie have also decided to get vaccines for it's PI neighbours

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia ... ders-china

[Kiap]

Aussie have also decided to get vaccines for it's PI neighbours

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia ... ders-china

That news is five months old, Enz.

"Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison has promised to distribute a COVID-19 vaccine to the Pacific and some South-East Asian countries if Australia develops a supply of working drugs."

https://www.abc.net.au/radio-australia/ ... a/12576894

& the manufacture started two months back.

Moreover, Australia was one of only four countries last year that commited to fund COVAX IFFIm for lower-income countries. The rest bought an insurance supply for themselves only.

[Enzedder]

Aussie have also decided to get vaccines for it's PI neighbours

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia ... ders-china

That news is five months old, Enz.

About right for the NZ Herald to run with it. The sports section was lauding John Walker's Olympic Gold

[Green light echo]

Aussie have also decided to get vaccines for it's PI neighbours

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia ... ders-china

That news is five months old, Enz.

"Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison has promised to distribute a COVID-19 vaccine to the Pacific and some South-East Asian countries if Australia develops a supply of working drugs."

https://www.abc.net.au/radio-australia/ ... a/12576894

& the manufacture started two months back.

Moreover, Australia was one of only four countries last year that commited to fund COVAX IFFIm for lower-income countries. The rest bought an insurance supply for themselves

So it would seem that falsebays moaning emanates from not just an emotional, but also an ignorant position.

How surprising.