A place where escape goats go to play
https://notplanetrugby.com/
Quite they should allowed worried people to Queue at the end of the day to mop up any unused vaccine. Any waste is criminal.Saint wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:40 pm Mrs Saint expecting dose 1 in the next couple of weeks. They're using NHS Nurses to mop up un-used Pfizer at the end of each day (due to no-shows, excess vaccine in vials, people disqualifying due to previously unannounced medical conditions etc)
Quite impressed withe the foresight TBH
It’s like WimbledonOpenside wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:10 pmQuite they should allowed worried people to Queue at the end of the day to mop up any unused vaccine. Any waste is criminal.Saint wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:40 pm Mrs Saint expecting dose 1 in the next couple of weeks. They're using NHS Nurses to mop up un-used Pfizer at the end of each day (due to no-shows, excess vaccine in vials, people disqualifying due to previously unannounced medical conditions etc)
Quite impressed withe the foresight TBH
And is SA joining in the negotiations? This is important to me too as I have 4 siblings and their spouses who are over 70 living in South Africa.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:08 pm Fangle, probably because of this:
Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'
Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years
There will be “Racist!” calls from all over SA soon, not just the False Bay area.Fangle wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:26 pmAnd is SA joining in the negotiations? This is important to me too as I have 4 siblings and their spouses who are over 70 living in South Africa.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:08 pm Fangle, probably because of this:
Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'
Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years
From what I read our gov is in bilateral negotiations with all the vaccine producers. I am hoping the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is successful, a SA drug mfr called Aspen is mooted to produce 300 million courses a year if so. This doesn't guarantee us access.Fangle wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:26 pmAnd is SA joining in the negotiations? This is important to me too as I have 4 siblings and their spouses who are over 70 living in South Africa.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:08 pm Fangle, probably because of this:
Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'
Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years
The vaccine best suited to rural SA, and indeed any rural area is the Oxford one which doesn’t require refrigeration. The first vaccine has to be stored at -70 degrees whic is really difficult to roll out except for the more sophisticated places.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:30 pmFrom what I read our gov is in bilateral negotiations with all the vaccine producers. I am hoping the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is successful, a SA drug mfr called Aspen is mooted to produce 300 million courses a year if so. This doesn't guarantee us access.Fangle wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:26 pmAnd is SA joining in the negotiations? This is important to me too as I have 4 siblings and their spouses who are over 70 living in South Africa.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:08 pm Fangle, probably because of this:
Rich states' Covid deals 'may deprive poor of vaccine for years'
Wealthy countries already have agreements for 3.73bn doses, with another 5bn under negotiation, study finds
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -for-years
Fair enough. We are prepared to pay good money for it. Lots of testing was done on thousands South African volunteers who put their lives at risk to trial unknown drugs for Pfizer, Astra Zeneca and Ozford. This was done free of charge.Marylandolorian wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:36 pm To falsebay,
Because my country put 10s of Billions of $ for the vaccine research with the US and my tax money .
Read this : https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explain ... index.html
Lot's of trials were run globally on volunteers. By the time any trial was started in SA they were known to be (relatively) safe. These trials were run to determine efficacy, not safety. Nothing was stopping SA negotiating an order in May or June?FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:43 pmFair enough. We are prepared to pay good money for it. Lots of testing was done on thousands South African volunteers who put their lives at risk to trial unknown drugs for Pfizer, Astra Zeneca and Ozford. This was done free of charge.Marylandolorian wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:36 pm To falsebay,
Because my country put 10s of Billions of $ for the vaccine research with the US and my tax money .
Read this : https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explain ... index.html
I'be been having a running debate with someone on a completely different forum who thinks that because AZ was developed in the UK, all global manufacturing of the AZ vaccine should be reserved for the UK until our requirements our met. I keep telling her not to be such a self entitled prat, but she's not getting itRandom1 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:52 pm Find this conversation fascinating.
It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.
Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.
Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.
So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?
My point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.Random1 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:52 pm Find this conversation fascinating.
It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.
Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.
Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.
So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?
Some of South Africa’s most senior medical leaders and academics have called for President Cyril Ramaphosa to fire government officials over delays in procuring Covid-19 vaccines, saying their actions will cause thousands of deaths and untold economic damage.
Will heads roll?
While at least 29 countries, from Mexico to Germany, have begun inoculating their populations against the virus, South Africa has yet to conclude any supply agreements with pharmaceutical companies. Kenya, a far poorer country than South Africa, expects to get vaccine deliveries at the end of January or next month, Nairobi’s Standard newspaper reported on Sunday, citing the country’s health secretary. It didn’t specify which vaccine.
Alright then, we had thousands of volunteers too, but about 30% of my salary goes to Uncle Sam and I surely hope that I can get an US made or founded vaccine before the rest of the world population.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:43 pmFair enough. We are prepared to pay good money for it. Lots of testing was done on thousands South African volunteers who put their lives at risk to trial unknown drugs for Pfizer, Astra Zeneca and Ozford. This was done free of charge.Marylandolorian wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:36 pm To falsebay,
Because my country put 10s of Billions of $ for the vaccine research with the US and my tax money .
Read this : https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explain ... index.html
Brazil were part of the same phase 3 trials SA were. They went and negotiated a license with AZ to produce 100 million doses for their own consumption. And their president doesn't even believe Covid is a real thingFalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:02 pmMy point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.Random1 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:52 pm Find this conversation fascinating.
It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.
Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.
Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.
So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?
AZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.Saint wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:09 pmBrazil were part of the same phase 3 trials SA were. They went and negotiated a license with AZ to produce 100 million doses for their own consumption. And their president doesn't even believe Covid is a real thingFalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:02 pmMy point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.Random1 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:52 pm Find this conversation fascinating.
It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.
Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.
Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.
So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?
“Public acknowledgment by officials that they didn’t think it prudent to begin bilateral negotiations with vaccine suppliers because they could not ‘take the risk’ of ordering vaccines in the event they would not work is shockingly disingenuous,” the health leaders said.
They also criticized the so-called ministerial advisory committee, a group of scientists appointed by Health Minister Zweli Mkhize, for echoing the government’s arguments.
Because other countries have already paid for their expected production for the entire year.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:12 pm AZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.
Our politicians are absolute fuckups I agree.Ymx wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:12 pm
“Public acknowledgment by officials that they didn’t think it prudent to begin bilateral negotiations with vaccine suppliers because they could not ‘take the risk’ of ordering vaccines in the event they would not work is shockingly disingenuous,” the health leaders said.
They also criticized the so-called ministerial advisory committee, a group of scientists appointed by Health Minister Zweli Mkhize, for echoing the government’s arguments.
Why are they ordering amounts in excess of their requirement?Raggs wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:13 pmBecause other countries have already paid for their expected production for the entire year.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:12 pm AZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.
AZ doesn't have any available vaccine for Brazil either, and yet they will have 100 million doses. Read what I wrote again.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:12 pmAZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.Saint wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:09 pmBrazil were part of the same phase 3 trials SA were. They went and negotiated a license with AZ to produce 100 million doses for their own consumption. And their president doesn't even believe Covid is a real thingFalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:02 pm
My point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.
The thing is though that almost all the vaccine that you're talking about is still currently theoretical. It's vapourware. It simply doesn't exist, and for most countries, they haven't even approved what they've bought and won't receive for 12+ months for use.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:24 pm 5 billion doses of vaccine or half of global production has been ordered by 13 percent of the worlds population consisting of the 27 EU states and 5 other rich countries.
Canada , for instance has ordered 9 doses per person. Canadians ey? No wonder there's none left for us.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03370-6
I don't dispute that. I am also pretty sure that once the rich countries have vaccinated their populations and the drug companies have recouped their r & d, the surplus will be ditched on the open markets. Trouble is, if we have to wait another year to get access, we'll have another 50000 dead and a torched economy.Saint wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:37 pmThe thing is though that almost all the vaccine that you're talking about is still currently theoretical. It's vapourware. It simply doesn't exist, and for most countries, they haven't even approved what they've bought and won't receive for 12+ months for use.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:24 pm 5 billion doses of vaccine or half of global production has been ordered by 13 percent of the worlds population consisting of the 27 EU states and 5 other rich countries.
Canada , for instance has ordered 9 doses per person. Canadians ey? No wonder there's none left for us.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03370-6
Right at this moment in time, there's maybe 7-8 million doses of any approved vaccine in the whole world (I'm excluding China for the moment), plus 100 million or so India. By the end of January the total number will have double or so. The chances that even
1.5 billion will have been manufactured by the end of 2021, unless another 3 or 4 vaccines are approved and can manufacture at scale, are fairly slim. There simply isn't nowhere near enough to go round, and unless you concentrate it in dense populations you won't get here immunity benefits, which multiply the benefit
And if you had an "equitable" share then you will likely have another 49,900 dead. And globally there would be far more dead overall as nowhere would have any herd immunity benefit.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:51 pmI don't dispute that. I am also pretty sure that once the rich countries have vaccinated their populations and the drug companies have recouped their r & d, the surplus will be ditched on the open markets. Trouble is, if we have to wait another year to get access, we'll have another 50000 dead and a torched economy.Saint wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:37 pmThe thing is though that almost all the vaccine that you're talking about is still currently theoretical. It's vapourware. It simply doesn't exist, and for most countries, they haven't even approved what they've bought and won't receive for 12+ months for use.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:24 pm 5 billion doses of vaccine or half of global production has been ordered by 13 percent of the worlds population consisting of the 27 EU states and 5 other rich countries.
Canada , for instance has ordered 9 doses per person. Canadians ey? No wonder there's none left for us.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03370-6
Right at this moment in time, there's maybe 7-8 million doses of any approved vaccine in the whole world (I'm excluding China for the moment), plus 100 million or so India. By the end of January the total number will have double or so. The chances that even
1.5 billion will have been manufactured by the end of 2021, unless another 3 or 4 vaccines are approved and can manufacture at scale, are fairly slim. There simply isn't nowhere near enough to go round, and unless you concentrate it in dense populations you won't get here immunity benefits, which multiply the benefit
Vaccine nationalism is extremely short sighted and might ultimately be equivalent to toilet paper panic buying. The ultimate economic stimulus would be for the rich countries to accelerate vaccine access for all countries.
My in laws were born in Poland in WW2 and lived through communism. My parents lost their business in Zim. They've lived through enough shit and being socially isolated when you're in your eighties is not a piece of cake. Its a psychological trauma the young can endure, not so easy for the elderly.Sandstorm wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:02 pm Imagine the stress of living in a war zone like Syria or having your whole town destroyed by an earthquake like in Turkey a few months ago?
1 year socially isolating in your own house is a piece of piss in comparison.
People who spent 6 years in Western Europe in 39-45 are also ashamed at the moaning going on today.
No, apparently kids will suffer irreparable damage from 2020 too.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:15 pmMy in laws were born in Poland in WW2 and lived through communism. My parents lost their business in Zim. They've lived through enough shit and being socially isolated when you're in your eighties is not a piece of cake. Its a psychological trauma the young can endure, not so easy for the elderly.Sandstorm wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:02 pm Imagine the stress of living in a war zone like Syria or having your whole town destroyed by an earthquake like in Turkey a few months ago?
1 year socially isolating in your own house is a piece of piss in comparison.
People who spent 6 years in Western Europe in 39-45 are also ashamed at the moaning going on today.
Yeah this point has been made a few times on this thread now, along with the fact that the countries involved are hedging their bets in case one of the vaccines doesn't work - they want to have enough of the others to ensure all of their citizens are protected.Raggs wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:58 pm Richer countries have also invested a lot of money buying vaccines that they didn't know would work. Countries now appear to have surplus, because they bought into multiple options early.
FalseBay in the world is not just shocker.FalseBayFC wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:02 pmMy point is that it seems that certain countries who did not fund or invent the vaccines have first access. And seem to have secured orders well in excess of their requirements, maybe at the expense of others. You may well live in an affected country, hope you get access soon to vaccines. It seems that the "I'm alright Jack" attitude prevails.Random1 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:52 pm Find this conversation fascinating.
It’s a really interesting slant on the haves and have nots, that is probably worth remembering for discussion when things aren’t so emotionally charged.
Falsebay - horrid to hear the shit your family’s going through mate - there are plenty of stories like that in the Uk too.
Our people are dying and we have horrible stories too.
So, Unless you’re arguing for some sort of new world order, managed by South Africa, so that you get vaccines invented and manufactured by others first, I’m not sure what you want?
That news is five months old, Enz.Enzedder wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:28 amAussie have also decided to get vaccines for it's PI neighbours
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia ... ders-china
About right for the NZ Herald to run with it. The sports section was lauding John Walker's Olympic GoldKiap wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:39 amThat news is five months old, Enz.Enzedder wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:28 amAussie have also decided to get vaccines for it's PI neighbours
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia ... ders-china
Kiap wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:39 amThat news is five months old, Enz.Enzedder wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:28 amAussie have also decided to get vaccines for it's PI neighbours
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia ... ders-china
"Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison has promised to distribute a COVID-19 vaccine to the Pacific and some South-East Asian countries if Australia develops a supply of working drugs."
https://www.abc.net.au/radio-australia/ ... a/12576894
& the manufacture started two months back.
Moreover, Australia was one of only four countries last year that commited to fund COVAX IFFIm for lower-income countries. The rest bought an insurance supply for themselves
So it would seem that falsebays moaning emanates from not just an emotional, but also an ignorant position.
How surprising.