NPR

Posted: **Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:12 pm**

Immensa Labs ... doesn't get any better!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 45785.html

Posted: **Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:06 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:38 am
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:10 am
Uncle fester wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:09 am

The harder we make it for the virus to spread, the more likely it is to mutate to a milder form.
Norovirus has been rampant in England in the last decade and neither my wife or I have had it. No reason why everyone will inevitably catch Covid.
It's a winter virus that doesn't last as long as Covid, isn't as infectious as Covid, and has nowhere near the numbers of people infected as Covid. Not sure it's a great comparison.

It’s been around for 10 times longer too. It’s a valid example.

Posted: **Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:10 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:06 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:38 am
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:10 am

Norovirus has been rampant in England in the last decade and neither my wife or I have had it. No reason why everyone will inevitably catch Covid.
It's a winter virus that doesn't last as long as Covid, isn't as infectious as Covid, and has nowhere near the numbers of people infected as Covid. Not sure it's a great comparison.
It’s been around for 10 times longer too. It’s a valid example.

It really isn't. All it really shows is you don't understand how contagious Covid is compared to bog standard stuff.

Posted: **Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:13 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:10 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:06 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:38 am

It's a winter virus that doesn't last as long as Covid, isn't as infectious as Covid, and has nowhere near the numbers of people infected as Covid. Not sure it's a great comparison.
It’s been around for 10 times longer too. It’s a valid example.
It really isn't. All it really shows is you don't understand how contagious Covid is compared to bog standard stuff.

Yeah, I’m brand new off the boat about Covid.

Posted: **Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:22 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:10 am
Uncle fester wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:09 am
Ymx wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:05 pm But surely it’s not something we will be able to avoid. And it’s better to catch it now than later whilst vaccinations are most effective, and not to mention to catch it before the next dangerous strain inevitably comes along - and take the edge of that one.

Shooting anti vaxxers sounds like one way to keep the covid linked deaths lower.
The harder we make it for the virus to spread, the more likely it is to mutate to a milder form.
Norovirus has been rampant in England in the last decade and neither my wife or I have had it. No reason why everyone will inevitably catch Covid.

Something like 35 percent of norovirus infection are asymptotic and of the rest many only have mild symptoms so not sure how you can be confident that you and your wife have never had it. Anyway, I don't think the fecal oral route has the same infectious potential as an airborne route which is why you get norovirus outbreaks rather than norovirus pandemics. Of course norovirus is still highly infectious and if you live in a third world shithole where they don't bother treating the sewage you've got an excellent chance of getting infected

Posted: **Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:09 pm**

Calculon wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:22 pm Of course norovirus is still highly infectious and if you live in a third world shithole where they don't bother treating the sewage you've got an excellent chance of getting infected

Oh, post-Brexit I am sure my chances are going to increase a lot.

Posted: **Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:25 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:09 pm
Calculon wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:22 pm Of course norovirus is still highly infectious and if you live in a third world shithole where they don't bother treating the sewage you've got an excellent chance of getting infected
Oh, post-Brexit I am sure my chances are going to increase a lot.

Are they at least going to check those; tens of thousands of Dutch shite; before they start spraying it across those; "Green & Pleasant Lands" ?

You wouldn't think, that with the Tories in power, there was any need to import, even more shit into the Country.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:09 am**

Calculon wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:22 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:10 am
Uncle fester wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:09 am

The harder we make it for the virus to spread, the more likely it is to mutate to a milder form.
Norovirus has been rampant in England in the last decade and neither my wife or I have had it. No reason why everyone will inevitably catch Covid.
Something like 35 percent of norovirus infection are asymptotic and of the rest many only have mild symptoms so not sure how you can be confident that you and your wife have never had it. Anyway, I don't think the fecal oral route has the same infectious potential as an airborne route which is why you get norovirus outbreaks rather than norovirus pandemics. Of course norovirus is still highly infectious and if you live in a third world shithole where they don't bother treating the sewage you've got an excellent chance of getting infected

You mean a third world country that dumps untreated sewage in rivers?

oh.... wait.....

[Edit: Sorry, the same point has already been made.]

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:27 am**

Ymx wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:20 am
Uncle fester wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:09 am
Ymx wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:05 pm But surely it’s not something we will be able to avoid. And it’s better to catch it now than later whilst vaccinations are most effective, and not to mention to catch it before the next dangerous strain inevitably comes along - and take the edge of that one.

Shooting anti vaxxers sounds like one way to keep the covid linked deaths lower.
The harder we make it for the virus to spread, the more likely it is to mutate to a milder form.
Hmmm, I’m not sure that is based on any science I’ve heard. But ping a link through.

In fact, the opposite happened with the Kent strain and then the Indian strain, whilst the world was locked down. Survival of the fittest saw to these strains taking over their respective predecessors. The ones able to survive and flourish effectively in a more locked down state.

In terms of mild/dangerous, the single most important factor here is in relation to the state of the human immune system response. And what it has previously battled and recognises.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Other

Writer has written the definitive history on 1918 epidemic and the lessons of that are relevant here.

Vaccination is great but if we really want to beat Covid, we need to maintain stuff like mask wearing and social distancing so that we don't end up having to go for full lockdowns later.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:34 am**

Interesting

“ The tragedy of that situation, in other words, is that humans did the virus’s work for it. It had no need to dial down its virulence to keep spreading – in fact it was in its evolutionary interests to dial it up and transmit even faster, since there was no cost to doing so. ”

That’s the core of the theory.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:36 am**

Doesn’t quite seem like the situation though. In locked down countries it’s not the weaker variants prevailing.

Eg NZ

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:44 am**

This virus is so unique in that it’s crazily transmissible off the scale. But the other factor making it so dangerous is that to the unvaccinated it has such a variable effect over the population. No symptoms, to mild, to death. But it’s such a strong spread against all of these categories that makes the disease more transmissible. It doesn’t need to dial down, as it’s effect varies so much person to person !!

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:44 am**

It's a bit more than just a theory.

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... dApp_Other"

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:47 am**

Ymx wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:36 am Doesn’t quite seem like the situation though. In locked down countries it’s not the weaker variants prevailing.

Eg NZ

Depends how you define "weaker".
The more transmittable variants are prevailing. Lethality is approx the same.

It's natural selection at work and we can influence the pressures that push the development in a certain direction.

Where I'm going with this is that letting it run through the population as you suggest, increases the risk of current vaccines becoming obsolete.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:53 am**

But that was the crux of that piece. It suggested trade off between transmissible and lethalness for viruses.

That’s not the case with covid as you say. What we are seeing is not that. The virus has not dialled down its lethalness (except via exposure and better treatment of course), because it hasn’t needed to.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:56 am**

Where I'm going with this is that letting it run through the population as you suggest, increases the risk of current vaccines becoming obsolete.

This part is true, and will happen in the world regardless. But if we don’t get regular exposure and immunity top ups, it will be more a problem for us when new strains inevitably continue to hit us.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:02 am**

The reason it's more transmittable than previous SARS is that it can infect both upper and lower respiratory systems and this is also why it has a range of symptoms.

MERS tends to be lower respiratory system only which makes it more lethal but harder to transmit. Common colds and seasonal flus tend to be upper respiratory system only so they transmit quite easily but don't kill you as much.

Every time the virus replicates, there's a chance of mutation. If we "give" it more hosts in an effort to let it "run through" the population, we are giving it many more replications and thus more chances to mutate and therefore more variants.

From there, letting it run loose means natural selection decides which variant becomes dominant. We make it harder to spread, it means the virus has to get sneakier.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:05 am**

On PR, this discussion would have resulted in hand bags and insults. That’s why I like this place

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:25 am**

Ymx wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:05 am On PR, this discussion would have resulted in hand bags and insults. That’s why I like this place

Agreed !

One thing that concerns me about the whole; "it won't migrate to a more lethal variety; because that's not how selection works"; is that you have a virus like Ebola.

Some Ebola strains have lethality > 50%; the reason being, that humans aren't the viruses host; we're just collateral damage, & even if Ebola killed every human on the planet, the virus would continue to exist in whatever it's host actually is.

Covid would could do the same; & yet still exist in dozens of other species on the planet.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:37 am**

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:25 am
Ymx wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:05 am On PR, this discussion would have resulted in hand bags and insults. That’s why I like this place
Agreed !

One thing that concerns me about the whole; "it won't migrate to a more lethal variety; because that's not how selection works"; is that you have a virus like Ebola.

Some Ebola strains have lethality > 50%; the reason being, that humans aren't the viruses host; we're just collateral damage, & even if Ebola killed every human on the planet, the virus would continue to exist in whatever it's host actually is.

Covid would could do the same; & yet still exist in dozens of other species on the planet.

the animal reservoir is a worry, and we might well see a sars cov3 in the not to distant future,. But if this sars cov 3 has the lethality of ebola, it is also likely like ebola to limit its transmissibility.

What you describe is in some ways what happened with the black death where Y pestis is also hosted by fleas,. Fortunately we don't have the same close living arrangements with fleas anymore. Interesting enough in that case humans were the original hostt and y pestis manage to mutate to be resistant to the fleas defences and use it as a vector

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:58 pm**

Uncle fester wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:47 am
Ymx wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:36 am Doesn’t quite seem like the situation though. In locked down countries it’s not the weaker variants prevailing.

Eg NZ
Depends how you define "weaker".
The more transmittable variants are prevailing. Lethality is approx the same.

It's natural selection at work and we can influence the pressures that push the development in a certain direction.

Where I'm going with this is that letting it run through the population as you suggest, increases the risk of current vaccines becoming obsolete.

It makes sense that facilitating transmission (Spanish flu example) changes the environmental conditions to allow faster transmission variants (with the byproduct of being more virulent) to predominate – and visa versa if transmission is hampered. I think the greater danger is long term hospitalized patients acting as incubators for novel strains that could be more transmissible/ more resistant to antibodies /vaccine

I think I might have linked this before

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2 ... us-strains

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:12 pm**

Interesting. This bit stuck out.

the longer and hotter the pandemic rages, the more chances the virus will have to devise random mutations.

We can only do so much about the length but we can do something about the temperature.

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:42 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:25 am
Ymx wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:05 am On PR, this discussion would have resulted in hand bags and insults. That’s why I like this place
Agreed !

One thing that concerns me about the whole; "it won't migrate to a more lethal variety; because that's not how selection works"; is that you have a virus like Ebola.

Some Ebola strains have lethality > 50%; the reason being, that humans aren't the viruses host; we're just collateral damage, & even if Ebola killed every human on the planet, the virus would continue to exist in whatever it's host actually is.

Covid would could do the same; & yet still exist in dozens of other species on the planet.

Whoa whoa whoa!! Are you saying that Covid might start infecting useful animals like pigs? And cause a shortage in bacon rolls???

Jesus man, this year has been bad enough without you creating real panic!!

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:16 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:42 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:25 am
Ymx wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:05 am On PR, this discussion would have resulted in hand bags and insults. That’s why I like this place
Agreed !

One thing that concerns me about the whole; "it won't migrate to a more lethal variety; because that's not how selection works"; is that you have a virus like Ebola.

Some Ebola strains have lethality > 50%; the reason being, that humans aren't the viruses host; we're just collateral damage, & even if Ebola killed every human on the planet, the virus would continue to exist in whatever it's host actually is.

Covid would could do the same; & yet still exist in dozens of other species on the planet.
Whoa whoa whoa!! Are you saying that Covid might start infecting useful animals like pigs? And cause a shortage in bacon rolls???

Jesus man, this year has been bad enough without you creating real panic!!

Joking aside; you'd better pray that Covid doesn't get into Pigs; because the worst thing that can happen in a Foot & Mouth outbreak; is for a piggery to get infected; because the pigs are just fine; but, they are perfect engines for creating massive, massive amounts of the virus

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:43 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:16 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:42 pm
fishfoodie wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:25 am

Agreed !

One thing that concerns me about the whole; "it won't migrate to a more lethal variety; because that's not how selection works"; is that you have a virus like Ebola.

Some Ebola strains have lethality > 50%; the reason being, that humans aren't the viruses host; we're just collateral damage, & even if Ebola killed every human on the planet, the virus would continue to exist in whatever it's host actually is.

Covid would could do the same; & yet still exist in dozens of other species on the planet.
Whoa whoa whoa!! Are you saying that Covid might start infecting useful animals like pigs? And cause a shortage in bacon rolls???

Jesus man, this year has been bad enough without you creating real panic!!
Joking aside; you'd better pray that Covid doesn't get into Pigs; because the worst thing that can happen in a Foot & Mouth outbreak; is for a piggery to get infected; because the pigs are just fine; but, they are perfect engines for creating massive, massive amounts of the virus

Joking aside? If you keep beating up this wonderful, magical creature then you and I are going to have a problem!

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:32 pm**

Got my Booster booked for the 4th Nov

Posted: **Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:56 pm**

Ovals wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:32 pm Got my Booster booked for the 4th Nov

Posted: **Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:04 am**

Ovals wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:32 pm Got my Booster booked for the 4th Nov

I am wondering if my booster will be the natural one <gulp>

Posted: **Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:49 am**

Ovals wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:32 pm Got my Booster booked for the 4th Nov

I'm 6 months on from my second one on Monday but computer still says no when I try and book online!!
Going to try and book by phone later today

Posted: **Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:16 pm**

Don’t know what’s happened in Edinburgh the last few days but I genuinely searched around today to see if I’d missed an announcement. Suddenly over the weekend and today lots of people have dropped the masks.

Noticed it in shops over the weekend, then dropping the kids at school this morning where it’s been 100% from parents there were quite a few without. Then did a shop at the big supermarket and agains loads without. Very odd, but I guess once one does it and gets away with it others will follow

Posted: **Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:29 pm**

Just got my booster six months and one day after my second jab. The system worked.

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:54 am**

SaintK wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:49 am
Ovals wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:32 pm Got my Booster booked for the 4th Nov
I'm 6 months on from my second one on Monday but computer still says no when I try and book online!!
Going to try and book by phone later today

When I 1st tried it told me the criteria was 6 months +1 week to qualify. Went back after that extra week and got straight in - albeit I had to shop around to get an early date.

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:02 am**

Ovals wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:54 am
SaintK wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:49 am
Ovals wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:32 pm Got my Booster booked for the 4th Nov
I'm 6 months on from my second one on Monday but computer still says no when I try and book online!!
Going to try and book by phone later today
When I 1st tried it told me the criteria was 6 months +1 week to qualify. Went back after that extra week and got straight in - albeit I had to shop around to get an early date.

Yes, I'll probably have to wait until next Monday. Though the governmant keep on about all these "walk in" centres they are opening for booster vacs. Can't find one in my area

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:15 am**

As far as I can tell from the NHS sites, there are only 3 walk-in centres within a 30 mile radius serving around 500 000+ population and a few pharmacies scattered about in out of the way places with a cluster of more about 25 - 30 miles away. I'll be eligible in just over a month but God knows how/where I'll be able to get to a site if demand becomes high. Vaccinations only really kicked off here in February so it's only recently/now that large numbers should become eligible, perhaps more places will be available before Xmas.

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:21 am**

SaintK wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:02 am
Ovals wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:54 am
SaintK wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:49 am
I'm 6 months on from my second one on Monday but computer still says no when I try and book online!!
Going to try and book by phone later today
When I 1st tried it told me the criteria was 6 months +1 week to qualify. Went back after that extra week and got straight in - albeit I had to shop around to get an early date.
Yes, I'll probably have to wait until next Monday. Though the governmant keep on about all these "walk in" centres they are opening for booster vacs. Can't find one in my area

My local surgery was fully booked for 2 months - no offers from any walk in centres - even though there is one just a mile away - found one at a Surgery a few miles away with just a 1 week wait. Seems odd that the boosters don't seem more generally available considering there's far fewer 1st/2nd jabs being given.

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:03 pm**

Slick wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:16 pm Don’t know what’s happened in Edinburgh the last few days but I genuinely searched around today to see if I’d missed an announcement. Suddenly over the weekend and today lots of people have dropped the masks.

Noticed it in shops over the weekend, then dropping the kids at school this morning where it’s been 100% from parents there were quite a few without. Then did a shop at the big supermarket and agains loads without. Very odd, but I guess once one does it and gets away with it others will follow

yes it is interesting the attitude of Brits to masks vs other countries. On two occasions yesterday I had cause to visit establishments which advertise that a mask must be worn so I took one with me, no one in either building had a mask on.

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:33 pm**

Ovals wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:54 am
SaintK wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:49 am
Ovals wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:32 pm Got my Booster booked for the 4th Nov
I'm 6 months on from my second one on Monday but computer still says no when I try and book online!!
Going to try and book by phone later today
When I 1st tried it told me the criteria was 6 months +1 week to qualify. Went back after that extra week and got straight in - albeit I had to shop around to get an early date.

I found pretty well by chance that one of our local medical centres was doing walk-in booster jabs, which was what we did. I think you had be a patient at one of their associated GP practices to get it.

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:38 pm**

Openside wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:03 pm
Slick wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:16 pm Don’t know what’s happened in Edinburgh the last few days but I genuinely searched around today to see if I’d missed an announcement. Suddenly over the weekend and today lots of people have dropped the masks.

Noticed it in shops over the weekend, then dropping the kids at school this morning where it’s been 100% from parents there were quite a few without. Then did a shop at the big supermarket and agains loads without. Very odd, but I guess once one does it and gets away with it others will follow
yes it is interesting the attitude of Brits to masks vs other countries. On two occasions yesterday I had cause to visit establishments which advertise that a mask must be worn so I took one with me, no one in either building had a mask on.

Same when I’ve been on the train recently. It’s not a perfect comparison but just about everyone wears seat belts when car accidents deaths are about five a day but we’re more relaxed about something that kills a hundred or so daily. What amazes me is that lack of government encouragement in the media for us to do things like wearing masks. One might almost think they’re not really bothered.

Posted: **Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:36 pm**

Openside wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:03 pm
Slick wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:16 pm Don’t know what’s happened in Edinburgh the last few days but I genuinely searched around today to see if I’d missed an announcement. Suddenly over the weekend and today lots of people have dropped the masks.

Noticed it in shops over the weekend, then dropping the kids at school this morning where it’s been 100% from parents there were quite a few without. Then did a shop at the big supermarket and agains loads without. Very odd, but I guess once one does it and gets away with it others will follow
yes it is interesting the attitude of Brits to masks vs other countries. On two occasions yesterday I had cause to visit establishments which advertise that a mask must be worn so I took one with me, no one in either building had a mask on.

A bit like the idiots on the government benches who think theyt are immune as "they know each other so well"

MPs and peers have been told to wear face masks in Parliament following a rise in Covid cases in the building.
Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle urged MPs to follow the Parliamentary authorities' guidance, saying they should "pull together" to stop the spread of infections.
He added that the measures would be reviewed in two weeks' time.
Most opposition MPs have opted to wear a mask, but many Conservatives have not.
Last week, face coverings became mandatory for staff employed by the House of Commons, unless they have a legitimate exemption - but it was left up to individual MPs to decide whether to cover their faces or not.
Last month, Commons leader Jacob Rees-Mogg said Conservative MPs did not need to wear masks because they knew each other well, and this meant they were complying with government guidance.

Posted: **Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:43 pm**

So we are up to 7 day average for covid deaths of 163 daily, which is roughly 1,150 a week and over 59,000 per annum. Excess deaths for last week are 1,722 over the 5 year average up to start of the pandemic (2015-2019), this equates to over 89,,000 additional deaths per annum if that was to continue.

The Blonde Bumblecunt says that he will not impose any further restrictions and that the covid numbers are as they planned for. This is interesting and I assume these levels of deaths are 'acceptable' and don't justify Plan B implementation? I wonder what level of death will be required in order for Plan B to be implemented? At what point will the pile of bodies get too high for even the Blonde Bumblecunt?

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