NPR

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:33 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:10 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:01 pm A bit worried how easily we gave up territory, especially as we were clearly not fully competing at the rucks. I also thought Finn was a bit average but it never got to the stage he was problematic. On the face of it Ritchie and Crosbie had poor games but that could just be the impression left by the tactics.

I would actually stick with the same front 5. I like WP being given 50 minutes and Zander coming on. I would imagine Watson will be back and Ritchie will move to the blindside. As others have said big Richie's hands in the try were superb and he was a real menace in the lineout.

Easy to criticise Crosbie and Ritchie but they did keep the English forwards quiet for large parts of the game. Whilst they weren't flashy they stuck in and did the hard donkey work close in. Sometimes it is just roll the sleeves up and dig in type of game for these guys. I'm not sure I would make many changes for next week other than on the bench with Fagerson and Watson coming in.

I can only presume the breakdown tactics were a way of tightening up on the discipline and it largely worked so it's nice not seeing us get whistled off the park.

I get so pissed off at refs giving nonsense scrum penalties. The one against Nel in the first half was just nonsense and the one where Cole's head popped up virtually facing backwards was equally as bad.

The one with Cole really annoyed me. He'd quite clearly had his arse handed to Jim, standing sideways, first man up, and that penalty led to a try.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:36 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:33 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:10 pm

Easy to criticise Crosbie and Ritchie but they did keep the English forwards quiet for large parts of the game. Whilst they weren't flashy they stuck in and did the hard donkey work close in. Sometimes it is just roll the sleeves up and dig in type of game for these guys. I'm not sure I would make many changes for next week other than on the bench with Fagerson and Watson coming in.

I can only presume the breakdown tactics were a way of tightening up on the discipline and it largely worked so it's nice not seeing us get whistled off the park.

I get so pissed off at refs giving nonsense scrum penalties. The one against Nel in the first half was just nonsense and the one where Cole's head popped up virtually facing backwards was equally as bad.

The one with Cole really annoyed me. He'd quite clearly had his arse handed to Jim, standing sideways, first man up, and that penalty led to a try.

He's a relic of the England front row that used to stand up and walk forward as a way of showing some faux scrum dominance. Got away with that crap for years.

Well, I predicted a 1-point England win in the other thread and for the last bit of the game I had a horrible sinking feeling that that's exactly what was going to happen. Just utterly sublime that it didn't.

England played a pretty limited truck it up gameplan. It was slightly worrying that they still got over the gainline so easily. We also comprehensively lost the tactical kicking game. An yet - it was a glorious win. So Scotland got a BP win at Twickenham without actually playing that well. Amazing.

Wales next week - please pleas please not a repeat of 2021. Wales are odds-on for the wooden spoon after their showing this afternoon, let's not fuck it up this time and go 10/10 after 2.

Front row was great, Nel tore everyone apart - I know nothing about the front row and could see Genge angling in every time. Arrows were excellent.

Richie G was awesome, everywhere, and Gilchrist did his thing.

Back row were strangely quiet but that’s a really interesting point above about maybe being told to hold out and not give away penalties. I don’t know how many we gave away today but it felt a lot less and AMAZINGLY, what a difference it made.

White was brilliant. Finns kicking out of hand was rubbish but his general control of the game was masterful again, imo, had the whole team buzzing at times.

Centres did well enough to have another go I reckon. Irn Du, well what can you say…. Styen did fine.

Hogg was really off the pace, unsurprisingly really.

Wouldn’t change much for next week apart from maybe BK starting at wing or 15 if Hogg is struggling - thought he looked great when he came on

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:45 pm Well, I predicted a 1-point England win in the other thread and for the last bit of the game I had a horrible sinking feeling that that's exactly what was going to happen. Just utterly sublime that it didn't.

I was wrong in my prediction on that thread

Timothy Taylor 20 Tennents Super 27

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:50 pm Front row was great, Nel tore everyone apart - I know nothing about the front row and could see Genge angling in every time. Arrows were excellent.

Richie G was awesome, everywhere, and Gilchrist did his thing.

Back row were strangely quiet but that’s a really interesting point above about maybe being told to hold out and not give away penalties. I don’t know how many we gave away today but it felt a lot less and AMAZINGLY, what a difference it made.

White was brilliant. Finns kicking out of hand was rubbish but his general control of the game was masterful again, imo, had the whole team buzzing at times.

Centres did well enough to have another go I reckon. Irn Du, well what can you say…. Styen did fine.

Hogg was really off the pace, unsurprisingly really.

Wouldn’t change much for next week apart from maybe BK starting at wing or 15 if Hogg is struggling - thought he looked great when he came on

On the other hand the tackle count from the back row was outstanding - I looked it up earlier, it's something like Fagerson on 27 with Crosbie on 20, Ritchie on 19. only a couple missed between them, Fagerson was 100%

Styen did fine.

I'll put my hand up here, Steyn looked quicker than I gave him previous credit for, I saw him as the safer option to an out of form Kinghorn, but he did well today.

I think Darcy still comes back in when he's fit

Also, selection and tactics from the coach need to be appreciated

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:53 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:50 pm Front row was great, Nel tore everyone apart - I know nothing about the front row and could see Genge angling in every time. Arrows were excellent.

Richie G was awesome, everywhere, and Gilchrist did his thing.

Back row were strangely quiet but that’s a really interesting point above about maybe being told to hold out and not give away penalties. I don’t know how many we gave away today but it felt a lot less and AMAZINGLY, what a difference it made.

White was brilliant. Finns kicking out of hand was rubbish but his general control of the game was masterful again, imo, had the whole team buzzing at times.

Centres did well enough to have another go I reckon. Irn Du, well what can you say…. Styen did fine.

Hogg was really off the pace, unsurprisingly really.

Wouldn’t change much for next week apart from maybe BK starting at wing or 15 if Hogg is struggling - thought he looked great when he came on

On the other hand the tackle count from the back row was outstanding - I looked it up earlier, it's something like Fagerson on 27 with Crosbie on 20, Ritchie on 19. only a couple missed between them, Fagerson was 100%

Wow! That’s is impressive. I guess we have come to expect fireworks from them but maybe that was a coming of age performance from a relatively young back row - ie much fewer penalties and the confidence not to give them away

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:55 pm

Styen did fine.

I'll put my hand up here, Steyn looked quicker than I gave him previous credit for, I saw him as the safer option to an out of form Kinghorn, but he did well today.

I think Darcy still comes back in when he's fit

Oh yeah, Darcy should come straight back in but if he’s not fit I think BK will scare the shit out of the Welsh at Murrayfield if we throw it about a bit. I’m just so reluctant to criticise Hogg because I think he is in the top 3 or 4 Scottish players of all time but he hasn’t had a great game for a while and it’s the first time I’ve really thought about other options seriously.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:58 pm Also, selection and tactics from the coach need to be appreciated

Yeah he doesn't get much love on here but credit where credit is due

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:00 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:53 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:50 pm Front row was great, Nel tore everyone apart - I know nothing about the front row and could see Genge angling in every time. Arrows were excellent.

Richie G was awesome, everywhere, and Gilchrist did his thing.

Back row were strangely quiet but that’s a really interesting point above about maybe being told to hold out and not give away penalties. I don’t know how many we gave away today but it felt a lot less and AMAZINGLY, what a difference it made.

White was brilliant. Finns kicking out of hand was rubbish but his general control of the game was masterful again, imo, had the whole team buzzing at times.

Centres did well enough to have another go I reckon. Irn Du, well what can you say…. Styen did fine.

Hogg was really off the pace, unsurprisingly really.

Wouldn’t change much for next week apart from maybe BK starting at wing or 15 if Hogg is struggling - thought he looked great when he came on

On the other hand the tackle count from the back row was outstanding - I looked it up earlier, it's something like Fagerson on 27 with Crosbie on 20, Ritchie on 19. only a couple missed between them, Fagerson was 100%

Wow! That’s is impressive. I guess we have come to expect fireworks from them but maybe that was a coming of age performance from a relatively young back row - ie much fewer penalties and the confidence not to give them away

Fagerson has become mister dependable over the last two years. Looks underpowered but never really plays like he is.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:58 pm Also, selection and tactics from the coach need to be appreciated

It was a bold selection and it paid off. Well done Toonie.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:06 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:00 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:53 pm



On the other hand the tackle count from the back row was outstanding - I looked it up earlier, it's something like Fagerson on 27 with Crosbie on 20, Ritchie on 19. only a couple missed between them, Fagerson was 100%

Wow! That’s is impressive. I guess we have come to expect fireworks from them but maybe that was a coming of age performance from a relatively young back row - ie much fewer penalties and the confidence not to give them away

Fagerson has become mister dependable over the last two years. Looks underpowered but never really plays like he is.

He's another one who I never knocked, but privately held my doubts about. Given the time he has progressed to being a deserved regular starter. He's still only 24.

I also thought Fagerson was too lightweight to play 8, which was why I expected Dempsey to be our starting 8 by now. But he’s deservedly the first choice now.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:07 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:58 pm Also, selection and tactics from the coach need to be appreciated

It was a bold selection and it paid off. Well done Toonie.

Townsend has only lost once to England, his record Vs them is outstanding...

... His record against Wales however is dogsh*te and that has to change next week. It's time this team shows they can put two good six nations wins back to back. He did very well this week, it's time to follow that up now. We've beaten England week one and flopped week two twice in a row now, cannot do it three times.

WRT tackles. Bergman was on for a quarter of the game and made 10 tackles, none missed.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:11 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:06 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:00 pm

Wow! That’s is impressive. I guess we have come to expect fireworks from them but maybe that was a coming of age performance from a relatively young back row - ie much fewer penalties and the confidence not to give them away

Fagerson has become mister dependable over the last two years. Looks underpowered but never really plays like he is.

He's another one who I never knocked, but privately held my doubts about. Given the time he has progressed to being a deserved regular starter. He's still only 24.

Tackle count above is what I was getting at earlier in thread. The back row rolled their sleeves up and tackled all day long without giving many penalties away. Crosbie and Fagerson did tons of donkey work which went unnoticed by many but they really stood their ground. Without them the backs wouldn't have had the ball nor space to run at. I would field same back row against the Welsh.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:54 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:07 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:58 pm Also, selection and tactics from the coach need to be appreciated

It was a bold selection and it paid off. Well done Toonie.

Townsend has only lost once to England, his record Vs them is outstanding...

... His record against Wales however is dogsh*te and that has to change next week. It's time this team shows they can put two good six nations wins back to back. He did very well this week, it's time to follow that up now. We've beaten England week one and flopped week two twice in a row now, cannot do it three times.

So need a win next week. If we do, it’s ON!

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:32 pm Monkey off the back from any snide digs about the last one being during covid too.

The more I think about it, the more this is the thing I’m most relieved about. It was never discussed amongst us but was at the back of a lot of peoples mind I reckon

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:14 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:32 pm Monkey off the back from any snide digs about the last one being during covid too.

The more I think about it, the more this is the thing I’m most relieved about. It was never discussed amongst us but was at the back of a lot of peoples mind I reckon

Agreed, I always felt the covid year without crowds was weird for sports. It feels sometimes like it didn't happen.

Also, three in a row without defeat at Twickenham (I watch the 2020 highlights to 38-31 so really three wins in a row). I don't know what kind of record that is but likely one we won't see for a while and it's fucking fantastic.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:21 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:14 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:32 pm Monkey off the back from any snide digs about the last one being during covid too.

The more I think about it, the more this is the thing I’m most relieved about. It was never discussed amongst us but was at the back of a lot of peoples mind I reckon

Agreed, I always felt the covid year without crowds was weird for sports. It feels sometimes like it didn't happen.

Also, three in a row without defeat at Twickenham (I watch the 2020 highlights to 38-31 so really three wins in a row). I don't know what kind of record that is but likely one we won't see for a while and it's fucking fantastic.

Think I saw it’s the best since 1906 - at Richmond RFC, Twickenham wasn’t built

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:31 pm Our RWC group now include the teams ranked #1, #4 & #5

Yep and all the top 5 are in our half of the draw w.r.t. potential quarter final opponents. Grrrrrr.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:14 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:32 pm Monkey off the back from any snide digs about the last one being during covid too.

The more I think about it, the more this is the thing I’m most relieved about. It was never discussed amongst us but was at the back of a lot of peoples mind I reckon

Few monkeys needing kicked off this year. Gatland and Ireland too. The latter will.be tough.

This is as good a try as the one that Maitland scored, the one that featured That Pass from Finn

Where has the Richie Gray we have seen this season for Glasgow and Scotland been hiding all these years? He looks like the player he was expected to be when he was young. Long may it continue.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:55 pm Where has the Richie Gray we have seen this season for Glasgow and Scotland been hiding all these years? He looks like the player he was expected to be when he was young. Long may it continue.

I hate saying things like this online because it's not back up in any way, but when he was at Sale a fan of their's said he only performed when he was looking for a new contract. His form in France fluctuated with renewal - he was really good at Toulouse before he went back to Glasgow.

I've heard he is moving back to France next year.

I think ive watched that first Duhan try over 100 times now….

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:48 pm I think ive watched that first Duhan try over 100 times now….

honestly, watch the second one - it's brilliant rugby from the time Finn takes the high ball on our 22

this is not taking anything from his first, but ...

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:50 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:48 pm I think ive watched that first Duhan try over 100 times now….

honestly, watch the second one - it's brilliant rugby from the time Finn takes the high ball on our 22

this is not taking anything from his first, but ...

Oh yeah agree. Folk all over social media saying what a poor game Finn had then you see that try - takes the high ball, brilliant pass wide to Steyn, brilliant pass out to Brown

Just watched the whole game back - only watched the second half live.

I thought we were good value for our win today. It was close but I think we were the better team.

That was probably the most disciplined performance I’ve seen Scotland put in for many years. Not sure what the penalty count was, but we didn’t concede a single brainless penalty all game, and it’s been a long long time since that was last the case. We were clinical - when we went into the England 22, we generally came out with points. And we didn’t let a tight game slip through our fingers at the death.

I can only recall a few unforced errors. Dempsey’s pass that went into touch was one (presumably a communication issue) and Russell’s kick that hit the line (inches away from genius). For once we weren’t our own worst enemies.

The only thing I was genuinely annoyed by was this: just before HT, we were 12-10 up and had possession in the England half with the clock red. No team should go in behind from that position, but somehow we managed. We still managed to pull it back though.

I’m pleased that the players didn’t over-celebrate and all the talk was of having to follow this up,. If we somehow contrive to lose to Wales next week, all this will have been for nothing. If we win, though…

Thought the Scottish back mplay was excellent and they were well worth their win
Remind just how many of you wanted rid of Townsend a couple ofmonths back?

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:03 am Thought the Scottish back mplay was excellent and they were well worth their win
Remind just how many of you wanted rid of Townsend a couple ofmonths back?

Not me

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:03 am Thought the Scottish back mplay was excellent and they were well worth their win
Remind just how many of you wanted rid of Townsend a couple ofmonths back?

I did and I'll want rid of him again if we lose to Wales. He's only lost once to England in six years which is absolutely great. But, the challenge is now beating England first up and putting in as good a performance Vs Wales the week after. Which we haven't done twice in a row, good teams win one game, great teams back that up. The performances Vs Wales in the six nations following beating England have been appalling.

Great performance, this team and this coach we all know is capable of it. They haven't been capable of backing them up however, so let's see. I hope I'm wrong and I hope we do it.

Beating England is always great, at HQ even moreso because it's so rare. A superb achievement for sure. But, let's finally beat Wales now.

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:03 am Thought the Scottish back mplay was excellent and they were well worth their win
Remind just how many of you wanted rid of Townsend a couple ofmonths back?

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:20 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:03 am Thought the Scottish back mplay was excellent and they were well worth their win
Remind just how many of you wanted rid of Townsend a couple ofmonths back?

I did and I'll want rid of him again if we lose to Wales. He's only lost once to England in six years which is absolutely great. But, the challenge is now beating England first up and putting in as good a performance Vs Wales the week after. Which we haven't done twice in a row, good teams win one game, great teams back that up. The performances Vs Wales in the six nations following beating England have been appalling.

Great performance, this team and this coach we all know is capable of it. They haven't been capable of backing them up however, so let's see. I hope I'm wrong and I hope we do it.

Beating England is always great, at HQ even moreso because it's so rare. A superb achievement for sure. But, let's finally beat Wales now.

This is where I am at. We didn’t want Toony replaced because we can’t put in a big performance every so often, particularly v England. We wanted him replaced because in spite of this, the best group of players we’ve had in decades at least have yet to perform consistently enough in a 6N to be a part of the conversation, let alone challenging for the title. Yes, a tiny swing in one game would have made us champions a few years back, but we still ended up 4th.

Two long term gripes were actually addressed yesterday - the team was picked on form, and we didn’t give away brainless penalties. This is very encouraging. But we know Toony well enough that it could all go to hell next week, and for the third year in a row we’ll have beaten England and failed to follow it up. Put Wales away next week, and then we’ll talk.

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:03 am Thought the Scottish back mplay was excellent and they were well worth their win
Remind just how many of you wanted rid of Townsend a couple ofmonths back?

To be fair, it took his attack coach leaving and having to get someone else in that seems to have freed the back play up. It's strangely similar to what happened with thr defence, it took Taylor leaving (when he should've been sacked) to get a grip on defence.

He's clearly a good coach, but after 6-7 years it isn't unreasonable to think it was becoming a bit stale, which it was for a lot of the last 12 months.

Others have covered the main points well I think. Particularly the stupid penalties.

Next week VP will probably get a rest - he is 63 years old - Mish will probably come in for young Luke Crosbie. Hogg looks crocked - hopefully - so Maitland or Kinghorn will probably slot in. Personally I would drop Jonny Gray and put in Sam Skinner.

One of the great pleasures of beating England is reading the Walrus and Barnes the next day trying to pretend they know anything about Scottish rugby or players. It’s dire