NPR

petej wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:15 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:14 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:59 am

I'm curious about this. Do you have any examples in mind? Both leaders clearly had a strong sense of duty, and Labour certainly did plenty to try and improve things for the whole of British society rather than just the rich, but I won't pretend I remember specifics of whether cabinet members were just there for themselves and to seek & maintain power above all else.

(This isn't a gotcha post!)

Yes I was referencing their governments and entourage more than them on a personal level. As a non-exhaustive/non-researched list, the whole government becoming secondary to a Blair/Brown psychodrama, things like the introduction of Alastair Campbell and the rise of the SPAD into the actual machinery of government, sending regiments to Iraq without protective equipment and a general sense of short termism (the roots of our energy predicament go back to this time, constitutional reform from the back of a fag packet, spin spin spin etc) would be my starting points.

Things have got worse, massively so, under Boris and Truss, but I would say the Thick of It is and was so funny because it was a very accurate parody of the attitudes of the Labour Government at the time. For large parts of the cabinet and wider government nothing was important bar publicity and tomorrow's headlines.

Worth reminding you that Blair/Brown did restart nuclear discussion and programs from it's slumber and did a lot on renewables and insulation (go look at the collapse of that under call me dave) and the roots of our predicament pre date them (look at what Sweden has done in heating instead of gas).

Lobby wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:12 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:00 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:14 am
Yes I was referencing their governments and entourage more than them on a personal level. As a non-exhaustive/non-researched list, the whole government becoming secondary to a Blair/Brown psychodrama, things like the introduction of Alastair Campbell and the rise of the SPAD into the actual machinery of government, sending regiments to Iraq without protective equipment and a general sense of short termism (the roots of our energy predicament go back to this time, constitutional reform from the back of a fag packet, spin spin spin etc) would be my starting points.

Things have got worse, massively so, under Boris and Truss, but I would say the Thick of It is and was so funny because it was a very accurate parody of the attitudes of the Labour Government at the time. For large parts of the cabinet and wider government nothing was important bar publicity and tomorrow's headlines.

Got it - also people like Mandelson I guess, where personalities making names for themselves became a thing.

There was also the Labour spin doctor who suggested 9/11 was ‘a good day to bury bad news’.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:16 pm statement from No 10 at 1:30

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:12 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:00 pm I hope Liz Tells him to fuck off and refuses to resign.

She really should for the lols. Every day clung to is one fewer shortest ever PM day she has.

Lobby wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:14 pm Therese Coffey and Tory Party chairman Jake Berry in Downing Street with Dizzy Lizzie and Graham Brady.

Coffey to be caretaker PM while the Tories work out who they want to appoint?

The sun god wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:27 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:12 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:00 pm I hope Liz Tells him to fuck off and refuses to resign.

She really should for the lols. Every day clung to is one fewer shortest ever PM day she has.

Nah....She's gone.

The sun god wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:27 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:12 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:00 pm I hope Liz Tells him to fuck off and refuses to resign.

She really should for the lols. Every day clung to is one fewer shortest ever PM day she has.

Nah....She's gone.

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:28 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:14 pm Therese Coffey and Tory Party chairman Jake Berry in Downing Street with Dizzy Lizzie and Graham Brady.

Coffey to be caretaker PM while the Tories work out who they want to appoint?

Just about the worst of the lot

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:21 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:12 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:00 pm

Got it - also people like Mandelson I guess, where personalities making names for themselves became a thing.

There was also the Labour spin doctor who suggested 9/11 was ‘a good day to bury bad news’.

I think a big difference between then and now is

The email was to make history. It led, in time, to her resignation as special adviser, to the resignation of my successor as communications director, to Byers’s resignation as secretary of state and to the abolition of the department. It also provided one of the most memorable quotations ever from a Whitehall permanent secretary.


https://archive.ph/DobyN#selection-1065.54-1065.385

BREAKING: Downing Street sources tell me that Liz Truss *will* be resigning. One says: "It's over".

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:36 pm So the lettuce wins

BREAKING: Downing Street sources tell me that Liz Truss *will* be resigning. One says: "It's over".

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:21 pm

petej wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:15 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:14 am
Yes I was referencing their governments and entourage more than them on a personal level. As a non-exhaustive/non-researched list, the whole government becoming secondary to a Blair/Brown psychodrama, things like the introduction of Alastair Campbell and the rise of the SPAD into the actual machinery of government, sending regiments to Iraq without protective equipment and a general sense of short termism (the roots of our energy predicament go back to this time, constitutional reform from the back of a fag packet, spin spin spin etc) would be my starting points.

Things have got worse, massively so, under Boris and Truss, but I would say the Thick of It is and was so funny because it was a very accurate parody of the attitudes of the Labour Government at the time. For large parts of the cabinet and wider government nothing was important bar publicity and tomorrow's headlines.

Worth reminding you that Blair/Brown did restart nuclear discussion and programs from it's slumber and did a lot on renewables and insulation (go look at the collapse of that under call me dave) and the roots of our predicament pre date them (look at what Sweden has done in heating instead of gas).

Nuclear was my reference really, insulation is unarguable. I think this chart demonstrates it pretty well:



Nuclear was hard and life seemed easy, so we didn't do it. Like with so many of our fuck ups as a nation, with more State grasp other worlds were possible...

Lobby wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:34 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:21 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:12 pm

There was also the Labour spin doctor who suggested 9/11 was ‘a good day to bury bad news’.

I think a big difference between then and now is

The email was to make history. It led, in time, to her resignation as special adviser, to the resignation of my successor as communications director, to Byers’s resignation as secretary of state and to the abolition of the department. It also provided one of the most memorable quotations ever from a Whitehall permanent secretary.


https://archive.ph/DobyN#selection-1065.54-1065.385

I agree that the current lot of charlattans and crooks are far worse than anything New Labour gave us, but Paddington’s point was that there has been a steady deterioration in political behaviour and commitment to the Country’s good. I think this was definitely a step on that journey.

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:40 pm The fuckers should just call an election for the sake of the Country.
Yes I am naive and hoped these cunts would do what is right for the country not the Tory Party.

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:40 pm The Tory party should never, ever let their membership vote for the party leader again

The sun god wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:37 pm You couldn't make this shit up.
Tell you what my British friends, don't ever take the piss out of the Italians again...!!

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:40 pm The Tory party should never, ever again

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:42 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:40 pm The fuckers should just call an election for the sake of the Country.
Yes I am naive and hoped these cunts would do what is right for the country not the Tory Party.

Labour will prefer an election in 24 months - let the Tories take the hits that are coming on the economy.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:21 pm

petej wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:15 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:14 am
Yes I was referencing their governments and entourage more than them on a personal level. As a non-exhaustive/non-researched list, the whole government becoming secondary to a Blair/Brown psychodrama, things like the introduction of Alastair Campbell and the rise of the SPAD into the actual machinery of government, sending regiments to Iraq without protective equipment and a general sense of short termism (the roots of our energy predicament go back to this time, constitutional reform from the back of a fag packet, spin spin spin etc) would be my starting points.

Things have got worse, massively so, under Boris and Truss, but I would say the Thick of It is and was so funny because it was a very accurate parody of the attitudes of the Labour Government at the time. For large parts of the cabinet and wider government nothing was important bar publicity and tomorrow's headlines.

Worth reminding you that Blair/Brown did restart nuclear discussion and programs from it's slumber and did a lot on renewables and insulation (go look at the collapse of that under call me dave) and the roots of our predicament pre date them (look at what Sweden has done in heating instead of gas).

Nuclear was my reference really, insulation is unarguable. I think this chart demonstrates it pretty well:



Nuclear was hard and life seemed easy, so we didn't do it. Like with so many of our fuck ups as a nation, with more State grasp other worlds were possible...

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:43 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:42 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:40 pm The fuckers should just call an election for the sake of the Country.
Yes I am naive and hoped these cunts would do what is right for the country not the Tory Party.

Labour will prefer an election in 24 months - let the Tories take the hits that are coming on the economy.

Given that an election now would likely see the Tories annihilated, what possible benefit is to Labour to have an election in 24 months for the same result at best and being left with an even bigger financial disaster to work with?

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:46 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:43 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:42 pm

Labour will prefer an election in 24 months - let the Tories take the hits that are coming on the economy.

Given that an election now would likely see the Tories annihilated, what possible benefit is to Labour to have an election in 24 months for the same result at best and being left with an even bigger financial disaster to work with?

Yep, they would bite your hand off at an election now surely. Would result in a massive majority and leave this as the lasting impression of Tory government for a generation.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:43 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:42 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:40 pm The fuckers should just call an election for the sake of the Country.
Yes I am naive and hoped these cunts would do what is right for the country not the Tory Party.

Labour will prefer an election in 24 months - let the Tories take the hits that are coming on the economy.

Given that an election now would likely see the Tories annihilated, what possible benefit is to Labour to have an election in 24 months for the same result at best and being left with an even bigger financial disaster to work with?

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:48 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:46 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:43 pm

Given that an election now would likely see the Tories annihilated, what possible benefit is to Labour to have an election in 24 months for the same result at best and being left with an even bigger financial disaster to work with?

Yep, they would bite your hand off at an election now surely. Would result in a massive majority and leave this as the lasting impression of Tory government for a generation.

Don't really agree with this. People's impressions of the first year of a labour govt will be increasing prices for everything and unaffordable mortgages.

People care more about money than political dysfunction.

The sun god wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:52 pm So....Penny or Sajid are my two guess to follow Liz into the shitshow. I doubt she had time to redecorate so all is good there.
I just got 9/2 on Penny and an outside 33's on Banker boy.

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:52 pm

The sun god wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:52 pm So....Penny or Sajid are my two guess to follow Liz into the shitshow. I doubt she had time to redecorate so all is good there.
I just got 9/2 on Penny and an outside 33's on Banker boy.

Rishi had the most support amongst MPs last time and completely vindicated in fiscal terms - got to be the favourite.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:50 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:48 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:46 pm

Yep, they would bite your hand off at an election now surely. Would result in a massive majority and leave this as the lasting impression of Tory government for a generation.

Don't really agree with this. People's impressions of the first year of a labour govt will be increasing prices for everything and unaffordable mortgages.

People care more about money than political dysfunction.

I'd be confident that they could frame it as the mess that the Tories left for them. Just as the Tories did when Cameron became PM post financial crash to a lesser extent.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:48 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:46 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:43 pm

Given that an election now would likely see the Tories annihilated, what possible benefit is to Labour to have an election in 24 months for the same result at best and being left with an even bigger financial disaster to work with?

Yep, they would bite your hand off at an election now surely. Would result in a massive majority and leave this as the lasting impression of Tory government for a generation.

Don't really agree with this. People's impressions of the first year of a labour govt will be increasing prices for everything and unaffordable mortgages.

People care more about money than political dysfunction.

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:52 pm

The sun god wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:52 pm So....Penny or Sajid are my two guess to follow Liz into the shitshow. I doubt she had time to redecorate so all is good there.
I just got 9/2 on Penny and an outside 33's on Banker boy.

Rishi had the most support amongst MPs last time and completely vindicated in fiscal terms - got to be the favourite.