NPR

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:22 pm Why do I have a feeling like Team Bumblecunt is telling everyone that he has 100 votes, but he's lying, because only ~60 have publicly committed to him, so he needs to pretend that he's already over the line, so other MPsfigure they'll back the winning ticket.

That's normal enough for politics really.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:05 pm

Seek this extraordinary piece of racist shit out on Twitter, the extract is about 8 minutes of him desperately trying not to say, " We won't support Sunak because he's not white and so can't be English" as the presenter slowly feeds him enough rope to hang himself, and good riddance.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:56 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:05 pm

Seek this extraordinary piece of racist shit out on Twitter, the extract is about 8 minutes of him desperately trying not to say, " We won't support Sunak because he's not white and so can't be English" as the presenter slowly feeds him enough rope to hang himself, and good riddance.

It wouldn't bor the Lowestoft Conservative party to figure out who Gerry, son of a former chairman of their constituency, is. And remove him from the party

Unless of course he's telling the truth

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm A friend has just told me that today on R4's Any Answers, a very posh sounding woman called Olivia called in to say that Liz Truss was "All fart and no shit"

It's weird that people think this. The problem with Truss is she actually did follow through with her ideas. Johnson who says a lot but doesn't do much on the other hand is seen as some man of action.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:07 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm A friend has just told me that today on R4's Any Answers, a very posh sounding woman called Olivia called in to say that Liz Truss was "All fart and no shit"

It's weird that people think this. The problem with Truss is she actually did follow through with her ideas. Johnson who says a lot but doesn't do much on the other hand is seen as some man of action.

I foolishly assumed that on the leadership hustings, she was just saying whatever shit she thought was necessary to get the bigoted morons to vote for her, when she'd already lost the Parliamentary Party vote.

I didn't think she was mad enough to follow up & do it !

Hardly ruining their Christmas ??

I mean, it's every kids dream to have 90% of schools go bankrupt, & have their Teachers go on strike !

Sure it'll destroy their Education, following on from years of fucking about with the Exams, & bringing the culture wars to the Syllabus; not forgetting Covid; but huddling in a freezing damp classroom is character building.

It's all part of Tories glorious plan for a High Tax, Low Skills Economy!

Christ alive, seems that Johnson may actually have got the 100.

So, Mordaunt drops out; her voters go for Sunak, Sunak gets the MPs votes with a substantial majority then what if the Party members choose Johnson? That surely can't be a tenable position even for this shower of shite?

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:45 pm Christ alive, seems that Johnson may actually have got the 100.

So, Mordaunt drops out; her voters go for Sunak, Sunak gets the MPs votes with a substantial majority then what if the Party members choose Johnson? That surely can't be a tenable position even for this shower of shite?

Surely having 100+ MPs not backing you isn't tenable regardless??

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:51 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:45 pm Christ alive, seems that Johnson may actually have got the 100.

So, Mordaunt drops out; her voters go for Sunak, Sunak gets the MPs votes with a substantial majority then what if the Party members choose Johnson? That surely can't be a tenable position even for this shower of shite?

Surely having 100+ MPs not backing you isn't tenable regardless??

Johnson might be bluffing ( known liar after all), or a good many are too embarrassed to state publicly they're backing him. Maybe he hopes to cut a deal, stand down if he gets promise of Foreign Secretary

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:45 pm Christ alive, seems that Johnson may actually have got the 100.

So, Mordaunt drops out; her voters go for Sunak, Sunak gets the MPs votes with a substantial majority then what if the Party members choose Johnson? That surely can't be a tenable position even for this shower of shite?

if he really did, I'd expect his cunt.... sorry, cult members to have all declared their support; after all RIshi's supporters have ?

[Edit] Plus if he really did have the votes already, why is he trying to get Mordaunt to drop out, & support him ?

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:07 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm A friend has just told me that today on R4's Any Answers, a very posh sounding woman called Olivia called in to say that Liz Truss was "All fart and no shit"

It's weird that people think this. The problem with Truss is she actually did follow through with her ideas. Johnson who says a lot but doesn't do much on the other hand is seen as some man of action.

There is a difference between delivering on a task and having everything you touch blow up in your face.

There was a reason Dominic Cummings nicknamed her the human hand-grenade, and it wasn’t what she apparently thought, that she got things done, it was precisely her inverse Midas touch that earned her the moniker
Oh the lack of self awareness is only one of the many failings these people all have in common

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:03 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:45 pm Christ alive, seems that Johnson may actually have got the 100.

So, Mordaunt drops out; her voters go for Sunak, Sunak gets the MPs votes with a substantial majority then what if the Party members choose Johnson? That surely can't be a tenable position even for this shower of shite?

if he really did, I'd expect his cunt.... sorry, cult members to have all declared their support; after all RIshi's supporters have ?

[Edit] Plus if he really did have the votes already, why is he trying to get Mordaunt to drop out, & support him ?

I think it’s unlikely he really has 100, hence the increasingly desperate efforts to garner support from anywhere and the shrill shrieks from his acolytes claiming they are over the line, which I suspect are intended to stop his declared supporters getting cold feet and going elsewhere.

If he really had a hundred, he’d have confirmed his candidacy by now, and his cult members would all have declared publicly.

Another concern for the Johnson camp must be that his supporters comprise all the most stupid of the Tory MPs. There must be some doubt that they will all manage to complete the nomination forms correctly.

Ok really don't give a flying feck if it's Sunal or Boris.
The Tories are an abomination. I actually hope Boris gets on for shits, it would destroy the Tory Party.

Lobby wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:19 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:03 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:45 pm Christ alive, seems that Johnson may actually have got the 100.

So, Mordaunt drops out; her voters go for Sunak, Sunak gets the MPs votes with a substantial majority then what if the Party members choose Johnson? That surely can't be a tenable position even for this shower of shite?

if he really did, I'd expect his cunt.... sorry, cult members to have all declared their support; after all RIshi's supporters have ?

[Edit] Plus if he really did have the votes already, why is he trying to get Mordaunt to drop out, & support him ?

I think it’s unlikely he really has 100, hence the increasingly desperate efforts to garner support from anywhere and the shrill shrieks from his acolytes claiming they are over the line, which I suspect are intended to stop his declared supporters getting cold feet and going elsewhere.

If he really had a hundred, he’d have confirmed his candidacy by now, and his cult members would all have declared publicly.

Another concern for the Johnson camp must be that his supporters comprise all the most stupid of the Tory MPs. There must be some doubt that they will all manage to complete the nomination forms correctly.

This is turning into a shitshow of epic proportions! Whoever thought this abbreviated process would be any better than the other one was having a laugh but to be fair there isn't really a right answer, you can't polish a turd!

If the Blonde Bumblecunt gets the 100 nominations, doubtful he will, and Sunak gets way more than that then would the Lump of Lard take it to the Party membership? If he did then he would no doubt win but would leave the Tory party with MPs voting against him and the party members voting for him. No doubt the markets will collapse with the Tub of Dogshite in power and a number of Tory MPs will resign or cross the chamber in protest. The investigation into him will pull the rug from under his feet within months and he will likely face an election battle. They would inevitably have to have a General Election. If he decides not to enter the fray due to knowing he will lose then his supporters, who detest Sunak with every bit of the soul they have left, will do everything they can to ruin his premiership. Sunak will struggle to keep control and demonstrate any competence beyond the money bit of the job, even that is questionable since he got us into this shit in the first place, and once again we have a General Election but perhaps a bit later on. Mordaunt will not step down apparently and will not ask her supporters to transfer their support to either candidate but we are only talking about 30'ish at most. Her display this morning on TV plus her claims to have served in the Royal Navy - she didn't, hasn't and never will according to the RN - puts her credibility in severe shitfest territory. She is merely putting a marker down for future leadership battles.

Whichever way this goes it is only delaying the inevitable, Brexit will drag down the Tory Party into the depths of the racist, xenophobic, Little Englander shithole they belong. The only question is how much damage will they do to us all before they go down?

dpedin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:40 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:19 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:03 pm

if he really did, I'd expect his cunt.... sorry, cult members to have all declared their support; after all RIshi's supporters have ?

[Edit] Plus if he really did have the votes already, why is he trying to get Mordaunt to drop out, & support him ?

I think it’s unlikely he really has 100, hence the increasingly desperate efforts to garner support from anywhere and the shrill shrieks from his acolytes claiming they are over the line, which I suspect are intended to stop his declared supporters getting cold feet and going elsewhere.

If he really had a hundred, he’d have confirmed his candidacy by now, and his cult members would all have declared publicly.

Another concern for the Johnson camp must be that his supporters comprise all the most stupid of the Tory MPs. There must be some doubt that they will all manage to complete the nomination forms correctly.

This is turning into a shitshow of epic proportions! Whoever thought this abbreviated process would be any better than the other one was having a laugh but to be fair there isn't really a right answer, you can't polish a turd!

If the Blonde Bumblecunt gets the 100 nominations, doubtful he will, and Sunak gets way more than that then would the Lump of Lard take it to the Party membership? If he did then he would no doubt win but would leave the Tory party with MPs voting against him and the party members voting for him. No doubt the markets will collapse with the Tub of Dogshite in power and a number of Tory MPs will resign or cross the chamber in protest. The investigation into him will pull the rug from under his feet within months and he will likely face an election battle. They would inevitably have to have a General Election. If he decides not to enter the fray due to knowing he will lose then his supporters, who detest Sunak with every bit of the soul they have left, will do everything they can to ruin his premiership. Sunak will struggle to keep control and demonstrate any competence beyond the money bit of the job, even that is questionable since he got us into this shit in the first place, and once again we have a General Election but perhaps a bit later on. Mordaunt will not step down apparently and will not ask her supporters to transfer their support to either candidate but we are only talking about 30'ish at most. Her display this morning on TV plus her claims to have served in the Royal Navy - she didn't, hasn't and never will according to the RN - puts her credibility in severe shitfest territory. She is merely putting a marker down for future leadership battles.

Whichever way this goes it is only delaying the inevitable, Brexit will drag down the Tory Party into the depths of the racist, xenophobic, Little Englander shithole they belong. The only question is how much damage will they do to us all before they go down?

He'll certainly have a minority of his own MP, even if mouth breathing morons, who landed Truss on the Country, vote for him, so he's doomed to failure on any Bills that are even remotely problematic, & that's all that's coming. He'd be gone by Christmas, regardless of the Standards Committee

He's dropped out according to the Beeb !!

indeed,

Claims he had 102 nominations - which I reckon is total bull. But he doesn't have to prove it now so he can make up the numbers as he pleases.

Ovals wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:06 pm He's dropped out according to the Beeb !!

Maybe the word is that Sunak has got the 155

Sunak will be Britians first Hindu PM and and the first born from parents of Indian descent. Its quite a remarkable story.

Reckon he thinks it could be better long term for him if Sunak gets in and goes down on flames like Truss did, so he can have a go next time without a "big gun" competing

I believe I have much to offer but I am afraid that this is simply not the right time.

Ovals wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:06 pm He's dropped out according to the Beeb !!

and as usual, he's totally, totally fucked those people stupid enough to believe the lying cunt.

They might as well quit now; because their careers are over now.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:21 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:06 pm He's dropped out according to the Beeb !!

and as usual, he's totally, totally fucked those people stupid enough to believe the lying cunt.

They might as well quit now; because their careers are over now.

Fabricant, Jenkyns, Dorries, Chope

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:21 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:06 pm He's dropped out according to the Beeb !!

and as usual, he's totally, totally fucked those people stupid enough to believe the lying cunt.

They might as well quit now; because their careers are over now.

Ithink Sunak will try and keep a few in jobs so he can demonstrate that he's pulling the party together - he'll not want to make the mistake that Truss made in only appointing supporters. He's a bit smarter than that.But I can't see Mogg getting a gig !!

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:23 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:21 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:06 pm He's dropped out according to the Beeb !!

and as usual, he's totally, totally fucked those people stupid enough to believe the lying cunt.

They might as well quit now; because their careers are over now.

Fabricant, Jenkyns, Dorries, Chope

claiming he had the 100 votes, sure buddy, we all believe the serial bullshitter this time.

Johnson returns for his Churchillian recrowning, gets his stooges to lie about his support, realises he isn't going to get it done and fucks off again.

It would take a heart of stone etc.

Meanwhile, the country bleeds to death as the Tories squabble about who is the tallest dwarf.

Oh, Mate...

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:38 pm Oh, Mate...

It's helpful if you have zero dignity, or self-awareness, in Tory Politics

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:38 pm Oh, Mate...

What a fucking cunt

Looks like that bloke's "full support & loyalty" ain't worth shit.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:41 pm
It's helpful if you have zero dignity, or self-awareness, in Tory Politics

Par for the course with this lot. His is a particularly amusing run though.

Zahawi out whoring mad Nads

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:52 pm Zahawi out whoring mad Nads

Have you any idea how much it costs to keep stables heated all winter !!!!

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:20 pm Reckon he thinks it could be better long term for him if Sunak gets in and goes down on flames like Truss did, so he can have a go next time without a "big gun" competing

Sunak's team were saying he had 80-ish backers, if it was more it wasn't that much more. This was his best chance he wouldn't have pulled out if he definitely had the numbers. If there were no membership vote he wouldn't have even bothered (having a minority of MPs was priced into his run).

His bid was all about his own ego with no concern for anything else, he wanted to look omnipotent in being able to resign and come back at will. That's what his undignified use of "hasta la vista baby" and the bullshit about Cincinnatus was all about. There's nothing more to it than that. What it isn't about is potentially being defeated and looking weak, so he pulled out. If he was smart he would've secured a deal on the privileges committee and the Tories voting down any recommended punishment so he doesn't face a humiliating potential by-election defeat, if Sunak was smart he would've agreed to that deal and would now be preparing to support whatever recommended punishment there is anyway. For the Tories to stand any chance they need to show they've cleaned themselves up, purging Johnson would be symbolic.

Can't see Johnson doing much in politics again, the reason he rushed back from holiday is there's going to be very few chances like this. Can't see him being at all interested in being an opposition leader which often means being a permanent loser (and also requires organisational skills he lacks), a lot of his rhetoric is about bullying people weaker than him which doesn't work as well in opposition. In 2019 he had Corbyn and "getting Brexit done" helping him, if he somehow contested a general election again he will not have cards in his hand like that.

Truss probably blew up too soon for Johnson, he may have had more chance next year. There's an outside chance the Tories change their leader again soon, they'll likely do poorly in elections next May but it would need more than that, polling would have to be bad for Sunak and he would need to be struggling to control the Tory parliamentary party. How good Sunak is as a politician will be what decides if Johnson gets another chance, and a lot of that is decided by what Sunak's motivations are which don't seem that different to Johnson wanting to be PM for the sake of it to get into the history books.

The pig eyed sack of shit will now have to give evidence to the Standards Committee, & he'll have even less friends than he had a week ago.

He'll be found guilt,
He'll be recalled.
He'll lose the By-Election.
& by disgracing himself, & his Party, he'll lose any chance of a Seat in the HoL !

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:45 pm The pig eyed sack of shit will now have to give evidence to the Standards Committee, & he'll have even less friends than he had a week ago.

He'll be found guilt,
He'll be recalled.
He'll lose the By-Election.
& by disgracing himself, & his Party, he'll lose any chance of a Seat in the HoL !

Sunak's first test of if he's up to it is if he makes sure this happens. May made a mistake promoting Johnson into a job she knew he couldn't do (Foreign Secretary), May thought his failure would sink him, the opposite happened. If he's there he's a threat, if he's not there is no Johnson faction.

If it's looking like that's the route, Johnson will not want a Portillo moment that ruins his image, so probably wouldn't even contest the by-election.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:08 pm We could go back and forth all day point by point I sense.

At the root of this is that you are conflating political crisis with constitutional crisis. The mess Britain is in is entirely one of politics.
We introduced an extra-constitutional step of a referendum, politicians have attempted to deal with the consequences, and by and large have failed to do so. Boris Johnson's government foundered not because the constitution was found to be inadequate but because he was incapable of putting in the graft required to legislate and govern, and was surrounded by mediocrities who wanted cabinet positions for the prestige and the boozy parties. Would that he was replaced by one of those mediocrities rather than a car crash. Truss has come unstuck on parliamentary arithmetic and the bond market.

None of this can be written constitution-ed away, the issue is political. Were there to be an election and Starmer wins the majority I suspect he would, the entire 'constitutional crisis' would disappear, almost as if it never existed.

I get the sense that you'd like to dissolve the people and elect another, and in the absence of that proving possible get judges and their coteries to effect something similar, but that's not how power and authority works in our constitution. The verdict and sanctions lie first with Parliament and ultimately with the electorate, and I don't see by what right a constitution could or should supersede that.

I didn't reply because we're going to go round in circles as you say. But whilst I'm here, there's two parts to your post.

The first isn't really completely at odds with my initial post in this string. Which stated May relied on something outside parliament (the referendum which wasn't legally binding and didn't happen during her parliament) for her legitimacy (she kept making "will of the people" arguments to support her specific deal) and when this proved insufficient to pass her Brexit deal she astonishingly restorted to criticising/attacking parliament itself, and a potential Johnson return would've also relied on something outside parliament (Tory members) for legitimacy and he too would've ended up attacking parliament (the privileges committee). Many then argue as you do that this a political problem which it is, but something as simple as having some more developed rules about how referendums function would've prevented a lot of this (eg NZ's referendum/s on changing their flag were more thought out). And this is where I depart from you, if Starmer gets a majority there's still going to be a political crisis (or maybe people will have just accepted being poorer than their parents generation? Or immigration levels they thought they were voting to reduce?) and the cause of the crisis isn't entirely political.

Since then we've seen Johnson supporters claiming he has a "mandate" to be PM, when the only mandate he has is from his constituency to be an MP. There's a Twitter post from Priti Patel on this thread supporting this "mandate" bullshit, it's what most of his supporters have stated. It's a "will of the people" argument, they tried to use the assumed value many have about general elections in the UK (people think an PM is elected by them at a general election, eg "I'm not voting for Corbyn"). Which supports that making Johnson PM would've been a constitutional crisis, something outside of parliament would've selected the PM for a second time, and there would've been more "will of every fucker outside parliament" type justifications to override the decisions of the actual will of the people (the MPs).

The second part of this, you're just making stuff up I'm afraid. You've said FPTP is separate to a written constitution (I pointed out not really, SA's constitution explicitly states the type but not exact form of electoral system). Now you're saying referendums are "extra-constitutional". This isn't a difficult one, if you're talking about the rules of the game you're talking about the constitution. I think a lot of the UK's issues originate from some of the rules of the game being poor, you've then jumped into the unwritten v written constitution stuff (I didn't bring it up, "constitutional crisis" isn't the same as "immediately start drafting the written constitution!").

It would be pointless saying the UK should have a written constitution, because it's never going to happen (how you then get federalism/subsidiarity to keep your country together long term, I don't know, but it's not my problem). But the means by which the electoral system changes is the continued fragmentation of the party politics (as soon as Labour can't secure a majority but can form coalitions). Someone supporting PR hardly wants to "dissolve the people and elect another", all the BNP and UKIP arguments would've fallen apart in a less damaging way if they had more exposure sooner, one of the things that was said about the Brexit referendum was "it was the first time people were heard" ... well exactly.

Not like Boris to pull out at the last minute.