The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[westport]

Murray McCallum who will join Newcastle Falcons this summer upon the conclusion of his short-term deal.

Well, at least he's got a contract, who is the current first choice tighthead there?

At the weekend they had Davison and Palframanat

[robmatic]

Murray McCallum who will join Newcastle Falcons this summer upon the conclusion of his short-term deal.

So that's him ruled out of what I imagine will be big changes on that side of the scrum for Edinburgh next season. Nel will be at the World Cup/winding down and De Bruin hasn't been much use and is out of contract.

[Yr Alban]

Now that we have beaten England three years running and we get to keep them on the mantelpiece, you’d have to think that if the likes of Dingwall and Fin Smith still don’t want to play for Scotland, they never will. Which is a shame, but there it is.

[C T]

The amount of times I check YouTube each day to see if Squidge has uploaded his analysis of our game is quite, quite sad.

[clydecloggie]

The amount of times I check YouTube each day to see if Squidge has uploaded his analysis of our game is quite, quite sad.

Apparently he spent every waking hour trying to make sense of the Ireland France snoozefest.

[charltom]

Now that we have beaten England three years running and we get to keep them on the mantelpiece, you’d have to think that if the likes of Dingwall and Fin Smith still don’t want to play for Scotland, they never will. Which is a shame, but there it is.

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

[Tichtheid]

Now that we have beaten England three years running and we get to keep them on the mantelpiece, you’d have to think that if the likes of Dingwall and Fin Smith still don’t want to play for Scotland, they never will. Which is a shame, but there it is.

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

... which makes me wonder about Ben Healy, he won't be in the main 23 for those games against SA and Ire, I wouldn't have thought. He may get a run v Georgia or Italy, but then when does Hastings play, assuming he's fit?
Or for that matter, Kinghorn, he'll need a run at fly half in a Scotland shirt too.

There was talk of "guarantees" when Healy signed for Edinburgh, I had doubts about that, tbh.

[Biffer]

Now that we have beaten England three years running and we get to keep them on the mantelpiece, you’d have to think that if the likes of Dingwall and Fin Smith still don’t want to play for Scotland, they never will. Which is a shame, but there it is.

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

... which makes me wonder about Ben Healy, he won't be in the main 23 for those games against SA and Ire, I wouldn't have thought. He may get a run v Georgia or Italy, but then when does Hastings play, assuming he's fit?
Or for that matter, Kinghorn, he'll need a run at fly half in a Scotland shirt too.

There was talk of "guarantees" when Healy signed for Edinburgh, I had doubts about that, tbh.

We have four warm up games in the summer, they will all get decent playing time at that point I think - doubt we'd see much of Finn during those. I reckon Healy will be in the 23 for Italy.

[clydecloggie]

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

... which makes me wonder about Ben Healy, he won't be in the main 23 for those games against SA and Ire, I wouldn't have thought. He may get a run v Georgia or Italy, but then when does Hastings play, assuming he's fit?
Or for that matter, Kinghorn, he'll need a run at fly half in a Scotland shirt too.

There was talk of "guarantees" when Healy signed for Edinburgh, I had doubts about that, tbh.

We have four warm up games in the summer, they will all get decent playing time at that point I think - doubt we'd see much of Finn during those. I reckon Healy will be in the 23 for Italy.

I'd think so too. Unless it's a Grand Slam game.

[Tichtheid]

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

... which makes me wonder about Ben Healy, he won't be in the main 23 for those games against SA and Ire, I wouldn't have thought. He may get a run v Georgia or Italy, but then when does Hastings play, assuming he's fit?
Or for that matter, Kinghorn, he'll need a run at fly half in a Scotland shirt too.

There was talk of "guarantees" when Healy signed for Edinburgh, I had doubts about that, tbh.

We have four warm up games in the summer, they will all get decent playing time at that point I think - doubt we'd see much of Finn during those. I reckon Healy will be in the 23 for Italy.

Yeah, the Top 14 will be nearing it's last few regular season rounds by August, I would think

[robmatic]

Now that we have beaten England three years running and we get to keep them on the mantelpiece, you’d have to think that if the likes of Dingwall and Fin Smith still don’t want to play for Scotland, they never will. Which is a shame, but there it is.

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

... which makes me wonder about Ben Healy, he won't be in the main 23 for those games against SA and Ire, I wouldn't have thought. He may get a run v Georgia or Italy, but then when does Hastings play, assuming he's fit?
Or for that matter, Kinghorn, he'll need a run at fly half in a Scotland shirt too.

There was talk of "guarantees" when Healy signed for Edinburgh, I had doubts about that, tbh.

We don't know Hogg's fitness situation yet, Kinghorn could be starting at 15 against France. That would put Healy on the bench.

[Biffer]

Javan Sebastien to Edinburgh on a two year deal.

Has looked promising, let's see how he develops at Edinburgh. Start of refreshing the TH side of the scrum (although I think Nel has years left in him)

[Tichtheid]

Javan Sebastien to Edinburgh on a two year deal.

Has looked promising, let's see how he develops at Edinburgh. Start of refreshing the TH side of the scrum (although I think Nel has years left in him)

I was really quite impressed with Sebastian when he's played for Scotland, he only seems to get about a quarter of an hour/20 minutes per game but he did his job

[GogLais]

Javan Sebastien to Edinburgh on a two year deal.

Has looked promising, let's see how he develops at Edinburgh. Start of refreshing the TH side of the scrum (although I think Nel has years left in him)

Scarlets will miss him unless there’s someone waiting in the wings.

[Tichtheid]

At least we got something from Scarlets, then.

[Big D]

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

... which makes me wonder about Ben Healy, he won't be in the main 23 for those games against SA and Ire, I wouldn't have thought. He may get a run v Georgia or Italy, but then when does Hastings play, assuming he's fit?
Or for that matter, Kinghorn, he'll need a run at fly half in a Scotland shirt too.

There was talk of "guarantees" when Healy signed for Edinburgh, I had doubts about that, tbh.

We have four warm up games in the summer, they will all get decent playing time at that point I think - doubt we'd see much of Finn during those. I reckon Healy will be in the 23 for Italy.

I'd expect the four 10's (if Hastings is fit) to get a start each. Hastings v Healy will be a shoot out to round out the three 10's.

[Biffer]

I'd expect the four 10's (if Hastings is fit) to get a start each. Hastings v Healy will be a shoot out to round out the three 10's.

I'd expect Finn to get a half at most. One start each for the others, and those three will cover all the benching as well.

[Big D]

Now that we have beaten England three years running and we get to keep them on the mantelpiece, you’d have to think that if the likes of Dingwall and Fin Smith still don’t want to play for Scotland, they never will. Which is a shame, but there it is.

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

... which makes me wonder about Ben Healy, he won't be in the main 23 for those games against SA and Ire, I wouldn't have thought. He may get a run v Georgia or Italy, but then when does Hastings play, assuming he's fit?
Or for that matter, Kinghorn, he'll need a run at fly half in a Scotland shirt too.

There was talk of "guarantees" when Healy signed for Edinburgh, I had doubts about that, tbh.

I am not totally sold about Kinghorn benching as 10 cover in those games yet. We need to see him have the keys to the car and be responsible for kicking at some point before then. We can't bank on Horne (or Cooney) being on the field to kick instead of him.

[Big D]

I'd expect the four 10's (if Hastings is fit) to get a start each. Hastings v Healy will be a shoot out to round out the three 10's.

I'd expect Finn to get a half at most. One start each for the others, and those three will cover all the benching as well.

I would be surprised. Best case he makes the Top 4 final in mid June then his next 60-80min will be the SA game at the RWC three months later?

Last time GT went pretty much full noise in two warm up games IIRC. The France home game and one of the Georgia games.

[Yr Alban]

Now that we have beaten England three years running and we get to keep them on the mantelpiece, you’d have to think that if the likes of Dingwall and Fin Smith still don’t want to play for Scotland, they never will. Which is a shame, but there it is.

Don't forget that there is a benefit to them that derives from remaining EQ, so it is in their interest to remain EQ for as long as possible even if they want to play for Scotland. They are also far enough down the pecking order that they are unlikely to get a look-in this year. I would expect GT to play (more or less) the team he intends to field vs. Ire/SA when they play France in the summer, and his intended team vs. Romania/Tonga when they play Georgia.

... which makes me wonder about Ben Healy, he won't be in the main 23 for those games against SA and Ire, I wouldn't have thought. He may get a run v Georgia or Italy, but then when does Hastings play, assuming he's fit?
Or for that matter, Kinghorn, he'll need a run at fly half in a Scotland shirt too.

There was talk of "guarantees" when Healy signed for Edinburgh, I had doubts about that, tbh.

I didn’t believe that for a second. Nobody will be getting a guarantee that they will be picked. He may have had an assurance that he would make the squad (easy enough to give) and that he’ll get a shot in the warm-ups at some point, but no more.

[KingBlairhorn]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed Kenny’s lad Reuben Logan is in the England U18 squad. He’s a back row (blindside I think), contracted to wasps.

[KingBlairhorn]

I don’t see it mentioned anywhere, Kiran McDonald has signed for Newcastle for next season.

[Slick]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed Kenny’s lad Reuben Logan is in the England U18 squad. He’s a back row (blindside I think), contracted to wasps.

This is beginning to get a bit out of order from England

[Tichtheid]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed Kenny’s lad Reuben Logan is in the England U18 squad. He’s a back row (blindside I think), contracted to wasps.

This is beginning to get a bit out of order from England

Nah, it's quite alright, get the lad up to speed and playing regularly in the Premiership before he declares for Scotland

(I hope he doesn't follow his mum's lead)

[KingBlairhorn]

I’m quite intrigued by Moby Ogunlaja the starting tighthead for the u20s this weekend. He has a very unusual profile for a Scotland youth international, especially a tight forward. He only took up rugby at 15, transitioning from football through Dundee and then Glasgow Hawks. He was born in Lagos and is already 120kg at 20. He’s of a build and size that we have historically struggled to produce, if he can also scrummage then he could be very effective. Anyone know any more about him and how good he is? Calum Norrie has been starting tighthead (until injured in the last game) and is a year younger (incidentally also 120kg so perhaps our S&C is catching up somewhat).

[Yr Alban]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed Kenny’s lad Reuben Logan is in the England U18 squad. He’s a back row (blindside I think), contracted to wasps.

This is beginning to get a bit out of order from England

This is an unintended consequence of only having two pro teams. Players are going to go and play in England, France or wherever, and often they will have their kids there as well. If they then stay on, the risk is that the kids in question may be lost to Scotland.

Rugby is mostly a middle class game in Scotland, and middle class people are more likely to move for work (which statistically, in the UK, means nearer to London). This means a lot of players with suspiciously Scottish names (Dingwall, McConnochie, Finlay Smith) ending up in the English system. Which is worth bearing in mind when we are accused of having a team of mercenaries.

[dpedin]

Interesting! Last two topics of posts above - one about Reuben Logan going into English rugby system and the other about Moby Ogunlaja in the Scottish rugby system! Both reflect the way of the world these days, folk move around a lot more and we Scots move more than most I reckon. However for every one we lose we it also seems we gain one as well? Good luck to Reuben who must qualify for England, Wales and Scotland but also welcome to Moby who qualifies for Nigeria and Scotland at least and we hope goes on to have a stellar rugby career with Scotland!

[Blackmac]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed Kenny’s lad Reuben Logan is in the England U18 squad. He’s a back row (blindside I think), contracted to wasps.

This is beginning to get a bit out of order from England

Nah, it's quite alright, get the lad up to speed and playing regularly in the Premiership before he declares for Scotland

(I hope he doesn't follow his mum's lead)

And everyone laughably declares him a foreign import.

[weegie01]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed Kenny’s lad Reuben Logan is in the England U18 squad. He’s a back row (blindside I think), contracted to wasps.

This is beginning to get a bit out of order from England

I do not know how well know either of these are.

Adam Hastings was approached by England (he went down to Millfield then college). Obviously he turned them down, and was bemused they would even ask.

When he was playing U20 for Scotland, and Scotland failed to get to the JRWC, Ewan Ashman was offered a guaranteed place in the England U20 JRWC squad (and there were suggestions it was guaranteed start) if he declared for England. He told them then that there was no chance he'd ever play for anyone but Scotland. Which did not stop Matt Proudfoot subsequently going to Sale to try and get Ashman (and Rodd) to declare for England.

[robmatic]

One factor with the multiply-qualified players is that they have mostly grown up with Scotland being generally pretty dire at international level so it's not entirely surprising it hasn't been an attractive option for some of them. This must be changing in recent years and Scotland have earned much more respect as a playing force, even if they haven't seriously troubled the 6 Nations yet.

I read on the Weegie board that Johnnie Beattie said he'd been contacted by 15 players who are SQ and who wanted the Scottish coaching setup to be made aware of their availability. I doubt that there would have been that much enthusiasm 10/15 years ago.

[westport]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed Kenny’s lad Reuben Logan is in the England U18 squad. He’s a back row (blindside I think), contracted to wasps.

I saw something about that the other week, I can't remember where, and Gabby and Kenny were delighted

[Yr Alban]

Apropos of nothing, I noticed Kenny’s lad Reuben Logan is in the England U18 squad. He’s a back row (blindside I think), contracted to wasps.

This is beginning to get a bit out of order from England

I do not know how well know either of these are.

Adam Hastings was approached by England (he went down to Millfield then college). Obviously he turned them down, and was bemused they would even ask.

When he was playing U20 for Scotland, and Scotland failed to get to the JRWC, Ewan Ashman was offered a guaranteed place in the England U20 JRWC squad (and there were suggestions it was guaranteed start) if he declared for England. He told them then that there was no chance he'd ever play for anyone but Scotland. Which did not stop Matt Proudfoot subsequently going to Sale to try and get Ashman (and Rodd) to declare for England.

Poaching bastards

When Rodd was brought into the England setup, we discussed it on here, and the general agreement was that Rodd was always going to opt for England, and Ashman always for Scotland. Sounds like this was correct.

[Tichtheid]

To be honest I'm surprised anyone still gets het up over the qualification issue. It's professional sport, it's a job now, as long as the rules that are in place are adhered to, or altered when they need to be, then what's the big deal?

[Biffer]

One factor with the multiply-qualified players is that they have mostly grown up with Scotland being generally pretty dire at international level so it's not entirely surprising it hasn't been an attractive option for some of them. This must be changing in recent years and Scotland have earned much more respect as a playing force, even if they haven't seriously troubled the 6 Nations yet.

I read on the Weegie board that Johnnie Beattie said he'd been contacted by 15 players who are SQ and who wanted the Scottish coaching setup to be made aware of their availability. I doubt that there would have been that much enthusiasm 10/15 years ago.

If you're 18, most of what you'll remember is the Russell and Hogg era going back to when you were 11 or 12. Not winning championships, but regularly beating England, cuffing Italy, beating the French at home, smacking the Aussies about and scaring the shit out of the ABs twice.

It's the current players who grew up with us being shite. Next generation have had a slightly better experience.

If you're 16 you'll remember losing to England as a rare event.

[I like neeps]

To be honest I'm surprised anyone still gets het up over the qualification issue. It's professional sport, it's a job now, as long as the rules that are in place are adhered to, or altered when they need to be, then what's the big deal?

There's a difference between Reuben Logan - Scottish father, Welsh mother, England educated as really the way of life in the UK and new stand down laws qualification route and project players.

People - including former captain Greig Laidlaw fwiw - are well within their rights to appreciate why Scotland go down the project route but not like it. Laidlaw spoke to Jim Hamilton on his podcast about guys who didn't even know the words to the anthem for example. Not that I'm too bothered myself about qualification through residency myself but I can understand why people don't like it. And I do think it's a big problem we've outsourced prop development, which isn't a philosophical as much as practical disagreement.

[Biffer]

To be honest I'm surprised anyone still gets het up over the qualification issue. It's professional sport, it's a job now, as long as the rules that are in place are adhered to, or altered when they need to be, then what's the big deal?

There's a difference between Reuben Logan - Scottish father, Welsh mother, England educated as really the way of life in the UK and new stand down laws qualification route and project players.

People - including former captain Greig Laidlaw fwiw - are well within their rights to appreciate why Scotland go down the project route but not like it. Laidlaw spoke to Jim Hamilton on his podcast about guys who didn't even know the words to the anthem for example. Not that I'm too bothered myself about qualification through residency myself but I can understand why people don't like it. And I do think it's a big problem we've outsourced prop development, which isn't a philosophical as much as practical disagreement.

Plenty of born and bred Scots who don't know the words to the national anthem.

[I like neeps]

To be honest I'm surprised anyone still gets het up over the qualification issue. It's professional sport, it's a job now, as long as the rules that are in place are adhered to, or altered when they need to be, then what's the big deal?

There's a difference between Reuben Logan - Scottish father, Welsh mother, England educated as really the way of life in the UK and new stand down laws qualification route and project players.

People - including former captain Greig Laidlaw fwiw - are well within their rights to appreciate why Scotland go down the project route but not like it. Laidlaw spoke to Jim Hamilton on his podcast about guys who didn't even know the words to the anthem for example. Not that I'm too bothered myself about qualification through residency myself but I can understand why people don't like it. And I do think it's a big problem we've outsourced prop development, which isn't a philosophical as much as practical disagreement.

Plenty of born and bred Scots who don't know the words to the national anthem.

Cool, take this one up with former Scotland captain Greig Laidlaw.

[Yr Alban]

The amount of times I check YouTube each day to see if Squidge has uploaded his analysis of our game is quite, quite sad.

I have also started checking on this. Is he just going to pretend it never happened?

[Tichtheid]

I see the qualification thing as two separate issues. First there are players who qualify under current rugby laws, that is what it is and I'm fine with it.

The second issue is that we have a long way to catch up with the other countries in terms of producing players capable of playing and winning in a top ten international side. For that to happen regularly with home-grown players we need Edinburgh and Glasgow to be successful and we need the Super Six to be successful, also the levels below that. I gauge success at S6 level and below by the number of players they produce who can step up to professional rugby, we're only at the start of that road. The levels below that, for me, mean the schools have to be strong, and not just the places that kept rugby alive in Scotland in the 80s and 90s, ie the private schools, we need to get better at bringing kids into the game from all backgrounds.

This ain't going to be easy, there is still an image problem with rugby which isn't helped by a media which is uninterested at best and hostile at worst - Scott Johnson wasn't wrong about everything, one of the few sports we can compete at the highest level in is rugby, but our two club teams, packed with international stars play in front of 9K in Glasgow and 7K in Edinburgh, the Borders side was disbanded because no one would go to the next town to watch.

The other countries are sprinting on ahead, until we get the grassroots up to standard and the two teams playing finals regularly we need to bring whoever is the best SQ player in any position - if we go back to shite as an international side no one is going to turn up at Murrayfield for the 6N and AIs and that fucks the whole game in Scotland.

[Slick]

The whole media thing frustrates the hell out of me. We, Scotland, are the 5th best country in the world at a major international sport and there is close to zero in the papers and especially on TV. Even talk shows and suchlike on BBC Scotland never have rugby players on.

I don’t know who is to blame, just a general malaise or the SRU for not getting the message out there and pushing for top players to be more visible on main stream media.