NPR

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:05 pm Dobby back as home sec and Nazi in Chief....dammit double posted

Got to keep the dog whistle blower for the stridently anti-immigration factions

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:53 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:34 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:28 pm Watch out Tofu sales! Sacked for "security reasons" and back a week later. Not even rearranging the deckchairs

Less than 24 hours in and this. What a fucking shambles.

I'm actually speechless.

Oh well, if true then so much for trying to give Sunak a chance

Here's who we know has what so far:

Prime Minister Sunak's first appointment was to keep Jeremy Hunt as chancellor
Dominic Raab will return to the roles of deputy prime minister and justice secretary
James Cleverly and Ben Wallace have both retained their roles as foreign secretary and defence secretary
The new chief whip will be Simon Hart
Nadhim Zahawi has been appointed as the minister without portfolio and party chairman
We've seen the likes of Suella Braverman, Grant Shapps, Oliver Dowden, Steve Barclay, Therese Coffey, Michael Gove and Gillian Keegan go into No 10 but no more appointments as yet

The goodwill didn't last long, what a shitshow

........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:57 pm ........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

She was there before under Boris, so a partial demotion. And so yes, another same old face.

Not sure Barclay is an improvement for Health Secretary. Though at least he hasn't suggested sharing left over anti-biotics with your mates, so there is that.

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:10 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:57 pm ........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

She was there before under Boris, so a partial demotion. And so yes, another same old face.

Not sure Barclay is an improvement for Health Secretary. Though at least he hasn't suggested sharing left over anti-biotics with your mates, so there is that.

Lucky there are no other countries in the union where antibiotics are available over the counter.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:57 pm ........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

The younger newer talent are morons like Gullis.

None of this should come as a surprise, guys. The Tory party is in hock to an extremist faction and has been overtaken by the right and far-right. Instead of the occasional dog whistle to the racists, they've become a clone of UKIP with some BNP thrown in there for good measure.

There's no mass of reasonable Tories with more centrist ideas. It's a faction of lunatics and grasping narcissists.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:16 pm

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:10 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:57 pm ........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

She was there before under Boris, so a partial demotion. And so yes, another same old face.

Not sure Barclay is an improvement for Health Secretary. Though at least he hasn't suggested sharing left over anti-biotics with your mates, so there is that.

Lucky there are no other countries in the union where antibiotics are available over the counter.

Nothing for arse licker Williamson as yet

Is there an element of putting ruthless, callous shits in Ministries, because you know you're going to be asking them to make swingeing cuts to essential services; & anyone who isn't comfortable about killing old ladies, & starving children, & letting crime run rife in Urban areas; really isn't who you want ?

He wants a Cabinet of utterly soulless bastards, & by God does he have a pool of those to pick from !

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:23 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:57 pm ........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

The younger newer talent are morons like Gullis.

None of this should come as a surprise, guys. The Tory party is in hock to an extremist faction and has been overtaken by the right and far-right. Instead of the occasional dog whistle to the racists, they've become a clone of UKIP with some BNP thrown in there for good measure.

There's no mass of reasonable Tories with more centrist ideas. It's a faction of lunatics and grasping narcissists.

And their mindless, spineless back bench enablers specifically selected for their ability to at least not give a shit about lunacy if they themselves aren't loons.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:23 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:57 pm ........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

The younger newer talent are morons like Gullis.

None of this should come as a surprise, guys. The Tory party is in hock to an extremist faction and has been overtaken by the right and far-right. Instead of the occasional dog whistle to the racists, they've become a clone of UKIP with some BNP thrown in there for good measure.

There's no mass of reasonable Tories with more centrist ideas. It's a faction of lunatics and grasping narcissists.

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Is Rishi going to appoint an Ethics Advisor, or was he lying when he promised, a new start, & the highest standards blagh, blagh, blagh ?

He should probably have run Bravermans breach of the Ministerial Code by one, before he committed to appointing her, or at least made her staying on, contingent upon such a review being passed.

Williamson and Jenrick also back in the Cabinet

I didn't have high hopes of the Sunak premiership, but I was optimistic enough not to expect the likes of Braverman, Coffey, Williamson and Jenrick back so soon (you could add more names to that list).

There is a case to be made that you want some experience in government in these challenging times, but perhaps not those who have abundant experience in failure? And instead show some intention of change and progression if you want to do improve the country.

Well, at least no more JRM in the Cabinet.

salanya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:32 pm Williamson and Jenrick also back in the Cabinet

I didn't have high hopes of the Sunak premiership, but I was optimistic enough not to expect the likes of Braverman, Coffey, Williamson and Jenrick back so soon (you could add more names to that list).

There is a case to be made that you want some experience in government in these challenging times, but perhaps not those who have abundant experience in failure? And instead show some intention of change and progression if you want to do improve the country.

Well, at least no more JRM in the Cabinet.

Unfuckingbelievable

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:42 pm Is there an element of putting ruthless, callous shits in Ministries, because you know you're going to be asking them to make swingeing cuts to essential services; & anyone who isn't comfortable about killing old ladies, & starving children, & letting crime run rife in Urban areas; really isn't who you want ?

He wants a Cabinet of utterly soulless bastards, & by God does he have a pool of those to pick from !

We can but hope that the implosion of the Tory Party is merely slightly delayed and once the effect of the likely policies kicks in people will again soon realise the true horror of the Nasty Party, then kick them into the long grass to never re-emerge.

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:40 pm

salanya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:32 pm Williamson and Jenrick also back in the Cabinet

I didn't have high hopes of the Sunak premiership, but I was optimistic enough not to expect the likes of Braverman, Coffey, Williamson and Jenrick back so soon (you could add more names to that list).

There is a case to be made that you want some experience in government in these challenging times, but perhaps not those who have abundant experience in failure? And instead show some intention of change and progression if you want to do improve the country.

Well, at least no more JRM in the Cabinet.

Unfuckingbelievable

Twat Hancock is more capable than that pair.

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:40 pm

salanya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:32 pm Williamson and Jenrick also back in the Cabinet

I didn't have high hopes of the Sunak premiership, but I was optimistic enough not to expect the likes of Braverman, Coffey, Williamson and Jenrick back so soon (you could add more names to that list).

There is a case to be made that you want some experience in government in these challenging times, but perhaps not those who have abundant experience in failure? And instead show some intention of change and progression if you want to do improve the country.

Well, at least no more JRM in the Cabinet.

Unfuckingbelievable

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

But the most risky element was the sheer number of old faces returning. There were more retreads in this reshuffle than a Kwik-Fit fitter’s garage. While the Tory party’s internal balance may benefit from the restoration of Gove, Raab, Barclay and others to key posts, the ordinary voter will be left with the impression that - in the immortal words of Theresa May - nothing has really changed at all.

petej wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:53 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:40 pm

salanya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:32 pm Williamson and Jenrick also back in the Cabinet

I didn't have high hopes of the Sunak premiership, but I was optimistic enough not to expect the likes of Braverman, Coffey, Williamson and Jenrick back so soon (you could add more names to that list).

There is a case to be made that you want some experience in government in these challenging times, but perhaps not those who have abundant experience in failure? And instead show some intention of change and progression if you want to do improve the country.

Well, at least no more JRM in the Cabinet.

Unfuckingbelievable

Twat Hancock is more capable than that pair.

Its not a very high bar to be fair!

I think the public have become fed up with this bunch of twats and see them for what they are - a bunch of useless cnuts. They are all past their sell by dates and have failed in most other jobs they have had and I don't think the public see them achieving much in their new jobs. Bringing back Cruella Braverman and Useless Dowden are cases in point. Just recirculating the same old faces into new jobs doesn't cut it - in fact it makes them look like a bunch of posh toffs playing musical chairs game with the cabinet. This is purely based on trying to keep the Tory party factions happy and instead will lead to amplifying division and splits. Once they eventually give out their new budget/fiscal statement with OBR analysis they will disappear into a quagmire of shit as it becomes apparent just how bad their last few years of stewardship has been. Sunak will crumple under the weight of premiership and the resulting barrage of criticism just as Truss did. He will be lucky to last till Easter.

Can only echo much of the above. The appointment of Braverman is the Tories encapsulated in a single stroke: arrogant, immoral and with such a contempt for the public, they feel they can do whatever they like.

I see the narrative is that Sunak is fixing the previous administration's errors, so all the shit is landing on Truss, and not anything before that.

Still, nice to see they've moved on from blaming the last Labour government for everything.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:01 am I see the narrative is that Sunak is fixing the previous administration's errors, so all the shit is landing on Truss, and not anything before that.

Still, nice to see they've moved on from blaming the last Labour government for everything.

Give it a day or two.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:16 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:23 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:57 pm ........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

The younger newer talent are morons like Gullis.

None of this should come as a surprise, guys. The Tory party is in hock to an extremist faction and has been overtaken by the right and far-right. Instead of the occasional dog whistle to the racists, they've become a clone of UKIP with some BNP thrown in there for good measure.

There's no mass of reasonable Tories with more centrist ideas. It's a faction of lunatics and grasping narcissists.

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Was discussing this at the weekend - Truss' advisors have a lot to answer for in terms of allowing her to believe her own publicity. For someone so devoid of talent, with poor communication skills and being not that bright she'd done incredibly well to get into high office at all. A smart team would have convinced her never to run for PM, position herself as a senior figure and push internally for the policies she likes. Instead she's totally ruined and I wouldn't be shocked to see her go as an MP at the next election.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:01 am I see the narrative is that Sunak is fixing the previous administration's errors, so all the shit is landing on Truss, and not anything before that.

Still, nice to see they've moved on from blaming the last Labour government for everything.

Which nicely sidesteps that he was at the tiller and steered the ship towards the abyss. Truss then decided to push hard on the throttle.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:24 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:16 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:23 pm

The younger newer talent are morons like Gullis.

None of this should come as a surprise, guys. The Tory party is in hock to an extremist faction and has been overtaken by the right and far-right. Instead of the occasional dog whistle to the racists, they've become a clone of UKIP with some BNP thrown in there for good measure.

There's no mass of reasonable Tories with more centrist ideas. It's a faction of lunatics and grasping narcissists.

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Was discussing this at the weekend - Truss' advisors have a lot to answer for in terms of allowing her to believe her own publicity. For someone so devoid of talent, with poor communication skills and being not that bright she'd done incredibly well to get into high office at all. A smart team would have convinced her never to run for PM, position herself as a senior figure and push internally for the policies she likes. Instead she's totally ruined and I wouldn't be shocked to see her go as an MP at the next election.

She had the look of someone who has been massively over coached.

During a lot of her speeches I couldn't help but think "That's what a robot that we're trying to teach emotions too would look like".

All this coaching just makes people seem less human, ironically the opposite of the intention. You shouldn't really have the say something, pause, think, then change your face to frowny to show you're passionate about something. Then you've got things like the bent in finger point. Ridiculous. No one does that.

I'm convinced this is all part of the draw of your Boris and Trump like characters, people are just desperate for something different.

C T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:34 am
She had the look of someone who has been massively over coached.

During a lot of her speeches I couldn't help but think "That's what a robot that we're trying to teach emotions too would look like".

All this coaching just makes people seem less human, ironically the opposite of the intention. You shouldn't really have the say something, pause, think, then change your face to frowny to show you're passionate about something. Then you've got things like the bent in finger point. Ridiculous. No one does that.

I'm convinced this is all part of the draw of your Boris and Trump like characters, people are just desperate for something different.

The cult of the personality in politics all really started here:
https://www.history.com/topics/us-presi ... on-debates

The difference being those 2 were intellectual heavyweights whereas what we are being presented with are talentless morons.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:20 am

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:01 am I see the narrative is that Sunak is fixing the previous administration's errors, so all the shit is landing on Truss, and not anything before that.

Still, nice to see they've moved on from blaming the last Labour government for everything.

Give it a day or two.

I think Sunak will be reminded of who has been in power for the past 12 years at PMQ's later

C T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:34 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:24 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:16 pm

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Was discussing this at the weekend - Truss' advisors have a lot to answer for in terms of allowing her to believe her own publicity. For someone so devoid of talent, with poor communication skills and being not that bright she'd done incredibly well to get into high office at all. A smart team would have convinced her never to run for PM, position herself as a senior figure and push internally for the policies she likes. Instead she's totally ruined and I wouldn't be shocked to see her go as an MP at the next election.

She had the look of someone who has been massively over coached.

During a lot of her speeches I couldn't help but think "That's what a robot that we're trying to teach emotions too would look like".

All this coaching just makes people seem less human, ironically the opposite of the intention. You shouldn't really have the say something, pause, think, then change your face to frowny to show you're passionate about something. Then you've got things like the bent in finger point. Ridiculous. No one does that.

I'm convinced this is all part of the draw of your Boris and Trump like characters, people are just desperate for something different.

I had a very eccentric History teacher at school who would make us do formal debates and presentations every other week, and it is the absolute best skill school gave me for working life. Being a naturally confident presenter and public speaker is wildly undertaught, and being able to do it properly opens a huge amount of doors in later life.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:55 am
I had a very eccentric History teacher at school who would make us do formal debates and presentations every other week, and it is the absolute best skill school gave me for working life. Being a naturally confident presenter and public speaker is wildly undertaught, and being able to do it properly opens a huge amount of doors in later life.

I played rugby at a public school FP team, there was a lot of self-confidence among the alumni, that's for sure, much more so than from my own school.


On Braverman, she must have done a deal to back Sunak and bring her numbers with her in exhange for getting her job back, to hell with how it looks that she broke the ministerial code and had to resign.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:55 am

C T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:34 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:24 am
Was discussing this at the weekend - Truss' advisors have a lot to answer for in terms of allowing her to believe her own publicity. For someone so devoid of talent, with poor communication skills and being not that bright she'd done incredibly well to get into high office at all. A smart team would have convinced her never to run for PM, position herself as a senior figure and push internally for the policies she likes. Instead she's totally ruined and I wouldn't be shocked to see her go as an MP at the next election.

She had the look of someone who has been massively over coached.

During a lot of her speeches I couldn't help but think "That's what a robot that we're trying to teach emotions too would look like".

All this coaching just makes people seem less human, ironically the opposite of the intention. You shouldn't really have the say something, pause, think, then change your face to frowny to show you're passionate about something. Then you've got things like the bent in finger point. Ridiculous. No one does that.

I'm convinced this is all part of the draw of your Boris and Trump like characters, people are just desperate for something different.

I had a very eccentric History teacher at school who would make us do formal debates and presentations every other week, and it is the absolute best skill school gave me for working life. Being a naturally confident presenter and public speaker is wildly undertaught, and being able to do it properly opens a huge amount of doors in later life.

Agreed - It's a skill that should be taught far more - and not just presentation skills but also how to prepare for the event. Another skill that is rarely taught is how to work well in a team - especially the team dynamics/behavioural psychology - understanding the different roles that need to be played in a fuly performing team.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:22 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:55 am

C T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:34 am

She had the look of someone who has been massively over coached.

During a lot of her speeches I couldn't help but think "That's what a robot that we're trying to teach emotions too would look like".

All this coaching just makes people seem less human, ironically the opposite of the intention. You shouldn't really have the say something, pause, think, then change your face to frowny to show you're passionate about something. Then you've got things like the bent in finger point. Ridiculous. No one does that.

I'm convinced this is all part of the draw of your Boris and Trump like characters, people are just desperate for something different.

I had a very eccentric History teacher at school who would make us do formal debates and presentations every other week, and it is the absolute best skill school gave me for working life. Being a naturally confident presenter and public speaker is wildly undertaught, and being able to do it properly opens a huge amount of doors in later life.

Agreed - It's a skill that should be taught far more - and not just presentation skills but also how to prepare for the event. Another skill that is rarely taught is how to work well in a team - especially the team dynamics/behavioural psychology - understanding the different roles that need to be played in a fuly performing team.

I was speaking to a mate yesterday who said his sister is leaving teaching after 25 years, she is fastidious and cares very deeply about her pupils but funding per student has been cut to approximately half and she just cannot do the job properly with the resources she has, this has led to her spending weekends in tears, feelings of depression and anxiety.
Her husband is also a teacher, he regularly does 70 hour weeks.

Give the schools the resources to teach rarefied subjects that can't really be measured, by all means, I'm 100% with you, but they could start by giving the schools the resources they need now

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:16 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:23 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:57 pm ........and Coffey gets moved from Health to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I'm sure she'll enjoy the food bit.
These are so much the same old faces who have fucked us over for years. Where is the new, younger talent? If there is any,
.
EDIT
Fuck me! Barclay to Health.

The younger newer talent are morons like Gullis.

None of this should come as a surprise, guys. The Tory party is in hock to an extremist faction and has been overtaken by the right and far-right. Instead of the occasional dog whistle to the racists, they've become a clone of UKIP with some BNP thrown in there for good measure.

There's no mass of reasonable Tories with more centrist ideas. It's a faction of lunatics and grasping narcissists.

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Because they don't give a shit and why should they? What's actually going to happen? Some of us who are actually engaged with politics will tut and say it's disgraceful and then move on to the next objectionable thing the Tories do. The media won't hammer it enough to keep it alive as an issue. On top of which there's been a general trend of very little tangible consequence for cabinet members' misdeeds. Johnson may have eventually resigned in sort of disgrace, but he got away with so much more than he's currently being investigated for and was still ahead of Mordaunt in this latest leadership election even if he might not have met the threshold to actually compete. Patel got away with her bullying while in office and was appointed to that office despite off the books, potentially treasonous, meetings with foreign governments. I'm 90% sure that Braverman only played along with resigning under Truss because she (like everyone) knew it wouldn't really mean anything.

The advisers aren't morons, they're psychopathic think tank ideologues who know their puppet politicians are operating with a commanding majority and can push even unpopular ideas through parliament. Witness the recent fracking vote. Despite all the furore and titillating detail of the night, it passed even though it contravenes the manifesto and the will of most MPs' constituents.
Competent, sensible senior civil servants have been forced out to make way for more and more of these fucks over the years.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:37 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:16 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:23 pm

The younger newer talent are morons like Gullis.

None of this should come as a surprise, guys. The Tory party is in hock to an extremist faction and has been overtaken by the right and far-right. Instead of the occasional dog whistle to the racists, they've become a clone of UKIP with some BNP thrown in there for good measure.

There's no mass of reasonable Tories with more centrist ideas. It's a faction of lunatics and grasping narcissists.

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Because they don't give a shit and why should they? What's actually going to happen? Some of us who are actually engaged with politics will tut and say it's disgraceful and then move on to the next objectionable thing the Tories do. The media won't hammer it enough to keep it alive as an issue. On top of which there's been a general trend of very little tangible consequence for cabinet members' misdeeds. Johnson may have eventually resigned in sort of disgrace, but he got away with so much more than he's currently being investigated for and was still ahead of Mordaunt in this latest leadership election even if he might not have met the threshold to actually compete. Patel got away with her bullying while in office and was appointed to that office despite off the books, potentially treasonous, meetings with foreign governments. I'm 90% sure that Braverman only played along with resigning under Truss because she (like everyone) knew it wouldn't really mean anything.

The advisers aren't morons, they're psychopathic think tank ideologues who know their puppet politicians are operating with a commanding majority and can push even unpopular ideas through parliament. Witness the recent fracking vote. Despite all the furore and titillating detail of the night, it passed even though it contravenes the manifesto and the will of most MPs' constituents.
Competent, sensible senior civil servants have been forced out to make way for more and more of these fucks over the years.

Depressingly true.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:01 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:37 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:16 pm

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Because they don't give a shit and why should they? What's actually going to happen? Some of us who are actually engaged with politics will tut and say it's disgraceful and then move on to the next objectionable thing the Tories do. The media won't hammer it enough to keep it alive as an issue. On top of which there's been a general trend of very little tangible consequence for cabinet members' misdeeds. Johnson may have eventually resigned in sort of disgrace, but he got away with so much more than he's currently being investigated for and was still ahead of Mordaunt in this latest leadership election even if he might not have met the threshold to actually compete. Patel got away with her bullying while in office and was appointed to that office despite off the books, potentially treasonous, meetings with foreign governments. I'm 90% sure that Braverman only played along with resigning under Truss because she (like everyone) knew it wouldn't really mean anything.

The advisers aren't morons, they're psychopathic think tank ideologues who know their puppet politicians are operating with a commanding majority and can push even unpopular ideas through parliament. Witness the recent fracking vote. Despite all the furore and titillating detail of the night, it passed even though it contravenes the manifesto and the will of most MPs' constituents.
Competent, sensible senior civil servants have been forced out to make way for more and more of these fucks over the years.

Depressingly true.

Indeed.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:22 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:55 am

C T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:34 am

She had the look of someone who has been massively over coached.

During a lot of her speeches I couldn't help but think "That's what a robot that we're trying to teach emotions too would look like".

All this coaching just makes people seem less human, ironically the opposite of the intention. You shouldn't really have the say something, pause, think, then change your face to frowny to show you're passionate about something. Then you've got things like the bent in finger point. Ridiculous. No one does that.

I'm convinced this is all part of the draw of your Boris and Trump like characters, people are just desperate for something different.

I had a very eccentric History teacher at school who would make us do formal debates and presentations every other week, and it is the absolute best skill school gave me for working life. Being a naturally confident presenter and public speaker is wildly undertaught, and being able to do it properly opens a huge amount of doors in later life.

Agreed - It's a skill that should be taught far more - and not just presentation skills but also how to prepare for the event. Another skill that is rarely taught is how to work well in a team - especially the team dynamics/behavioural psychology - understanding the different roles that need to be played in a fuly performing team.

Team sports is the best way to teach kids how to behave in a team. Group projects even at uni are a running joke, but get 11/15 boys/girls together in something they actually care about and they'll work it out quick enough. And then at Year 12 leave them to properly skipper it themselves by and large. And this of course requires schools to take sport seriously and not just have a football team.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:37 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:16 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:23 pm

The younger newer talent are morons like Gullis.

None of this should come as a surprise, guys. The Tory party is in hock to an extremist faction and has been overtaken by the right and far-right. Instead of the occasional dog whistle to the racists, they've become a clone of UKIP with some BNP thrown in there for good measure.

There's no mass of reasonable Tories with more centrist ideas. It's a faction of lunatics and grasping narcissists.

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Because they don't give a shit and why should they? What's actually going to happen? Some of us who are actually engaged with politics will tut and say it's disgraceful and then move on to the next objectionable thing the Tories do. The media won't hammer it enough to keep it alive as an issue. On top of which there's been a general trend of very little tangible consequence for cabinet members' misdeeds. Johnson may have eventually resigned in sort of disgrace, but he got away with so much more than he's currently being investigated for and was still ahead of Mordaunt in this latest leadership election even if he might not have met the threshold to actually compete. Patel got away with her bullying while in office and was appointed to that office despite off the books, potentially treasonous, meetings with foreign governments. I'm 90% sure that Braverman only played along with resigning under Truss because she (like everyone) knew it wouldn't really mean anything.

The advisers aren't morons, they're psychopathic think tank ideologues who know their puppet politicians are operating with a commanding majority and can push even unpopular ideas through parliament. Witness the recent fracking vote. Despite all the furore and titillating detail of the night, it passed even though it contravenes the manifesto and the will of most MPs' constituents.
Competent, sensible senior civil servants have been forced out to make way for more and more of these fucks over the years.

It's been widely reported that Braverman resigned because she had a massive row with Truss over immigration. Truss had been told that they would have to increase immigration to meet her economic growth targets, but Braverman essentially wants to close the borders to everyone. Her breach of the ministers' code gave them a convenient excuse for the resignation. If they hadn't had a fundamental disagreement on policy, Truss would have been happy to ignore the ministers' code and would no doubt have described Braverman's transgression as a 'minor breach'.

They also think the 'reset' with Sunak means they can ignore everything that has gone before and pretend they are starting with the clean slate; hence the appointments of Braverman, Jenrik and Williamson, despite Sunak's claim that he will restore 'integrity' to the Party.

Whilst I know it happens all the time, I don’t recall a recent PMQ’s where the PM answered literally none of the Leader of the Opposition’s questions. He didn’t even come close

There must be a mechanism for the Speaker to push them to at least vaguely give and answer otherwise, what’s the point?

This isn’t a criticism, but I’m interested as to why Sunak is congratulated on being the first Asian PM. His recent background is African, both parents being born there, so isn’t he the first African/British PM?

He seems quite happy about it but an interesting look at identity

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:55 am This isn’t a criticism, but I’m interested as to why Sunak is congratulated on being the first Asian PM. His recent background is African, both parents being born there, so isn’t he the first African/British PM?

He seems quite happy about it but an interesting look at identity

Presumably because Asians are a more significant demographic group in the UK than Africans/those of African descent and they are more likely to lean conservative, so it's a group he's happy to lean into and they're happy to claim him. While his heritage might be African by location, ethnically it seems to be pretty straightforwardly Asian?

I'd sooner we stopped congratulating people for the first *insert whatever* and judge them solely on policy and action. Him being the first Asian PM counts for fuck all if he just wants to plunge us into ever greater austerity.

There's one issue which has led many Tory no hoper MPs, which is never mentioned because it's a minefield subject. The parties have contributed towards breaking the FPTP system, it's not just apathetic voters.

The first thing to keep in mind is electoral systems are like a seesaw, on one end is accountability the other proportionality. You can never have the maximum of one without giving up the other. FPTP is a maximum accountability system, with no allowance for proportionality (even the geographical allocation of seats can potentially be disproportionate, eg rotten boroughs).

MP candidates are supposed to be selected by their party branches made up of party members, people who would've known them for a long time (decades, probably since they were teenagers). The MP candidates likely would've been councillors for awhile, weeding out the morons. Then they would be backbenchers in parliament for over a decade, where again the morons would be weeded out. Then a government minister, where again there would be a weeding. Then finally PM. Thatcher was contesting elections in the early 1950s.

This creates some problems though. Women are at a disadvantage when this amount of time needs to be devoted, because a lot of that time will go into having children (there's also a cost issue in just attempting to do something this long which isn't well paid, so likely the husband will have to be very supportive). In a developed world multi racial and cultural society, minority groups are usually congregated in urban areas where there's more opportunities (the migration of these people wasn't pre-industrial when most of the opportunities were on the land), meaning alth0ugh their percentage of the population could be high and growing they're only the majority in a comparatively small amount of urban seats. Bluntly FPTP left without any interference will produce a parliament that's highly accountable, but unrepresentative and stuffed with old white men.

New Labour and the Tories from Cameron onwards basically implemented affirmative action to make their candidates more representative of the UK population. The party will impose a candidate or slate of candidates from the party HQ, breaking all the informal party accountability elements of FPTP. These candidates will often be rapidly promoted once they become MPs (otherwise what's the point in parachuting them?) and hardly spend any time as backbenchers. Truss and Sunak became PM with 10 years or less experience, parachuted into a safe seat then immediately became a government minister more or less. The Tories have a particular problem with this their membership is 97% white and mostly old, the pool they're organically pulling from isn't that diverse. It shows up in the Tory parliamentary party too, despite the identity of those with top jobs, out of the Tory's 357 MPs 88 are women, whilst a majority of Labour and Libdem MPs are women.

The same issues are there that always are with affirmative action (this may be a rugby forum, but this a subject that's been heavily discussed by Saffas down the years). The candidates may be really good but could also be terrible, there's no way of knowing until they fail at a high level or not (there's been no weeding process). The candidates may be really good, but without experience they may still fail (and end up classified in the first group as no hopers, when they actually aren't but cannot easily go back and restart). Exceptional candidates may be excellent regardless (hard to know, but they may have done well without assistance). Very few people will point out what's going on (it's potentially career limiting to do so). Those that do will be told candidates that weren't parachuted are also shit sometimes, which is true. In a workplace where this stuff is rampant, you'll find capable people that are passed over will give up and mediocre people (regardless of their identity) will start expecting career progression at the rate of those with parachutes.

This stuff is on Tory minds, because they use it to attack Labour as part of this "culture war" bullshit. The Tory's main point in Truss's first PMQs, was that Truss is a woman and therefore the Tories were better than Labour. Never mind that Truss should've never risen above backbencher/councillor.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:55 am This isn’t a criticism, but I’m interested as to why Sunak is congratulated on being the first Asian PM. His recent background is African, both parents being born there, so isn’t he the first African/British PM?

He seems quite happy about it but an interesting look at identity

The age old culture v country discussion. His grandparents were Punjabis who moved to EA. He's happy with it because the EA Asians never saw themselves as Africans and lived in what amounted to self imposed, enclave communities. Their kids mostly went to Asian only attendee and funded schools. Basically they did not want to integrate which is the problem the UK now has with some portions of the Asian communities here.

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:53 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:37 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:16 pm

The advisors seem like a bunch of morons also. Truss was utterly shite but a decent team around her would have shielded her a lot better.

Why didn’t someone advise Sunak that reappointing a Home Sec who just broke the Ministerial code over secrecy and had to resign was a poor idea

Because they don't give a shit and why should they? What's actually going to happen? Some of us who are actually engaged with politics will tut and say it's disgraceful and then move on to the next objectionable thing the Tories do. The media won't hammer it enough to keep it alive as an issue. On top of which there's been a general trend of very little tangible consequence for cabinet members' misdeeds. Johnson may have eventually resigned in sort of disgrace, but he got away with so much more than he's currently being investigated for and was still ahead of Mordaunt in this latest leadership election even if he might not have met the threshold to actually compete. Patel got away with her bullying while in office and was appointed to that office despite off the books, potentially treasonous, meetings with foreign governments. I'm 90% sure that Braverman only played along with resigning under Truss because she (like everyone) knew it wouldn't really mean anything.

The advisers aren't morons, they're psychopathic think tank ideologues who know their puppet politicians are operating with a commanding majority and can push even unpopular ideas through parliament. Witness the recent fracking vote. Despite all the furore and titillating detail of the night, it passed even though it contravenes the manifesto and the will of most MPs' constituents.
Competent, sensible senior civil servants have been forced out to make way for more and more of these fucks over the years.

It's been widely reported that Braverman resigned because she had a massive row with Truss over immigration. Truss had been told that they would have to increase immigration to meet her economic growth targets, but Braverman essentially wants to close the borders to everyone. Her breach of the ministers' code gave them a convenient excuse for the resignation. If they hadn't had a fundamental disagreement on policy, Truss would have been happy to ignore the ministers' code and would no doubt have described Braverman's transgression as a 'minor breach'.

They also think the 'reset' with Sunak means they can ignore everything that has gone before and pretend they are starting with the clean slate; hence the appointments of Braverman, Jenrik and Williamson, despite Sunak's claim that he will restore 'integrity' to the Party.

Ta, yeah I had read something on that, but there's always so much to try and keep abreast of!

The reset mentality is so bizarre. Just after she secured the leadership I saw people defending Truss on the basis that she hadn't done anything yet and criticism was premature as if she didn't already have a fully fledged political career and body of work to look at. It is, of course, possible that members of this new cabinet and Sunak himself won't simply carry on in the lamentable manner that they have before, though I'd say most observers would say it's not very probable