NPR

Reading a lot lately (ok the Guardian and you tube vids ) about how capitalism is at war with itself.
Funny, Economists were talking about this a few years ago, and are being proven 100% correct.
Basically two factions are currently vying for dominance of the Capitalist system that we have grown up with.
The older more "conservative" way is now basically being eaten alive by just massive wealthy interests, billionaires (and their dark money, who to quote Boris think "fuck business") and who have discovered not only how to get into power, but have found the golden ticket and have worked out how to bend the electorate to their will through social media etc.

So through petty resentments, anger, finger jabbing etc ( I call it "The Great Resent'tardation") they managed to get all the people who need to be spoon fed anger, hatred and resentment, to get their low paid miserable asses out of bed in the morning, to just vote against their interests.
People like the 50% of America that works like dogs, but cannot even afford even the very cheapest brand new car on credit, after eight years of Obama.

It is a fascinating area that explains a lot about how the US and UK have got into this state.

Jumping ahead, the only way to beat this politically, is to go local, reinvigorate democracy on a local level.
Make it impossible for people to be Parachuted in, who don't represent the interests of their local electorate, and create a situation where everyone knows their local MP is working for them, and will not change the second they get to Parliament.
We also need a progressive internationalist movement that doesn't fuck around and defeats poverty internationally, by taking the money saved by renationalisation, and these failed and failing privatised industries, and spending it on better paid jobs. Taking the model for creating a living wage in one country and transfer it to all countries.
You cannot defeat poverty in your own country if the country next door is dirt poor.

The US and UK are rushing to a Autocracy. Democracy itself is in peril.
Believe me when I say a Democrat capitalist society was utterrly brutal for half the population of the UK, a post Brexit, Autocratic fascistic state based on petty personnal resentments of the unbelievably wealthy would make that look like a Sunday school picnic.

To the fucking barricade brothers.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:30 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:12 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:06 pm
I know you're wrong, but if that's what you think then fine.
I just try to be a voice of reason if I can and not take sides.

Fair enough. I think we all know how the French operate when their pissed & feel aggrieved.

In the Cods wars the UK fishermen didn't like Iceland unilaterally deciding to put them out of work; & I don't see the French taking it any better.

Like I say; I think; given the UK was supposedly proposing a 5 year deal to try & resolve the situation; I don't really see the problem with giving it a year to come up with something better. It's one of those things where the Tories really need to decide if this is the hill they want to die on.

For many of them, it is.

Don't think it is. I genuinely believe that Tory MPs thought brexit would be simpler than this. Don't believe for a second Tory MPs will be happy when the food prices rise on January 1st. Boris Johnson just wants to be popular - he has no policy goals. He won't be happy when the food prices go up and people get angry. Because you might be able to fool them into blaming the EU but what's the benefit? What's the next step? There's no way out when Tesco puts prices up.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:07 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:30 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:12 pm

Fair enough. I think we all know how the French operate when their pissed & feel aggrieved.

In the Cods wars the UK fishermen didn't like Iceland unilaterally deciding to put them out of work; & I don't see the French taking it any better.

Like I say; I think; given the UK was supposedly proposing a 5 year deal to try & resolve the situation; I don't really see the problem with giving it a year to come up with something better. It's one of those things where the Tories really need to decide if this is the hill they want to die on.

For many of them, it is.

Don't think it is. I genuinely believe that Tory MPs thought brexit would be simpler than this. Don't believe for a second Tory MPs will be happy when the food prices rise on January 1st. Boris Johnson just wants to be popular - he has no policy goals. He won't be happy when the food prices go up and people get angry. Because you might be able to fool them into blaming the EU but what's the benefit? What's the next step? There's no way out when Tesco puts prices up.

People won't be happy with food price rises, though long term we might be eating half priced chlorinated chicken!

Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:48 am Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Waste of nearly 4 years. Should have just left at the end of 2016. We’d have worked out the kinks by now.

They will extend talks

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:03 am They will extend talks

Pointless

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:02 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:48 am Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Waste of nearly 4 years. Should have just left at the end of 2016. We’d have worked out the kinks by now.

That's why the idea of prolonging the negotiations for a few more years was pointless. It'll was always going to come down to the same things. Unless there is movement, please no extention.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:48 am Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Do you have a link for what Merkel says

westport wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:31 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:48 am Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Do you have a link for what Merkel says

No. Its headlines.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:35 am

westport wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:31 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:48 am Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Do you have a link for what Merkel says

No. Its headlines.

Thanks, found it

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:59 pm Fanatical lunacy reaching it peak? Gunboats to protect 'our fish'

Whats fanatical lunacy? All countries are entitled to protect their assets. What do you suggest we do? turn a blind eye like that utter twat Nicola Sturgeon??

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:02 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:48 am Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Waste of nearly 4 years. Should have just left at the end of 2016. We’d have worked out the kinks by now.

Exactly - We are leaving, how would you like this to work for our mutual benefit. 4 totally wasted years with remainers trying to damage the IK's position in the mean time. CUNTS

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:26 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:02 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:48 am Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Waste of nearly 4 years. Should have just left at the end of 2016. We’d have worked out the kinks by now.

Exactly - We are leaving, how would you like this to work for our mutual benefit. 4 totally wasted years with remainers trying to damage the IK's position in the mean time. CUNTS

And of course the CUNTS on the other side who wasted all that time voting against everything that May proposed but voted for something virtually identical when thee blonde slug became Tory leader

TBH
I've airways had the same opinion that both sides are as bad as each other
The PR thread is unreadable
Please don't let this one go that way

Talks to continue.....

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:42 am TBH
I've airways had the same opinion that both sides are as bad as each other
The PR thread is unreadable
Please don't let this one go that way

Message8536 v The Swarm

I’m out!

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:51 am Talks to continue.....

yep.........Keep right on tto the end of the road

We had a useful phone call this morning. We discussed the major unresolved topics.
Our negotiating teams have been working day and night over recent days.
And despite the exhaustion after almost a year of negotiations, despite the fact that deadlines have been missed over and over we think it is responsible at this point to go the extra mile.
We have accordingly mandated our negotiators to continue the talks and to see whether an agreement can even at this late stage be reached.

Don't see the point if either are going to give way.

End it and go our separate ways with what has been agreed so far and come back together for talks at a later date,

westport wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:36 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:35 am

westport wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:31 am

Do you have a link for what Merkel says

No. Its headlines.

Thanks, found it

Yes, to be clear it's a Daily Mail headline quoting an unnamed source saying "Merkel wants the UK to crawl over broken glass". Literally no clue who is saying it. It could be Jacob Rees-Mogg. It could be Anthony Joshua. It could be one of the fucking cleaners in the fucking cunt Daily Mail offices. It's absurd journalism to have that be 1/3rd of the front page of one of our biggest newspapers.

And Longshanks, who seems desperate to align himself as some sort of a fence-sitting "both sides" type, just parrots it straight out.

Being "balanced" doesn't mean turning off your critical faculties.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:04 pm

westport wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:36 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:35 am

No. Its headlines.

Thanks, found it

Yes, to be clear it's a Daily Mail headline quoting an unnamed source saying "Merkel wants the UK to crawl over broken glass". Literally no clue who is saying it. It could be Jacob Rees-Mogg. It could be Anthony Joshua. It could be one of the fucking cleaners in the fucking cunt Daily Mail offices. It's absurd journalism to have that be 1/3rd of the front page of one of our biggest newspapers.

And Longshanks, who seems desperate to align himself as some sort of a fence-sitting "both sides" type, just parrots it straight out.

Being "balanced" doesn't mean turning off your critical faculties.

No I didn't parrot it straight out. I said "if reports are true"
Sorry if that confused you.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:15 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:04 pm

westport wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:36 am

Thanks, found it

Yes, to be clear it's a Daily Mail headline quoting an unnamed source saying "Merkel wants the UK to crawl over broken glass". Literally no clue who is saying it. It could be Jacob Rees-Mogg. It could be Anthony Joshua. It could be one of the fucking cleaners in the fucking cunt Daily Mail offices. It's absurd journalism to have that be 1/3rd of the front page of one of our biggest newspapers.

And Longshanks, who seems desperate to align himself as some sort of a fence-sitting "both sides" type, just parrots it straight out.

Being "balanced" doesn't mean turning off your critical faculties.

No I didn't parrot it straight out. I said "if reports are true"
Sorry if that confused you.

Which itself is completely misrepresenting what we're talking about.

If I repeated a fucking Brietbart headline while saying "if reports are true" I'd expect serious criticism. You're giving totally uncorroborated tabloid garbage from the Nazi paper a veneer of credibility by referring to their totally unsourced madey-uppey nonsense as "reports".

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:17 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:15 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:04 pm

Yes, to be clear it's a Daily Mail headline quoting an unnamed source saying "Merkel wants the UK to crawl over broken glass". Literally no clue who is saying it. It could be Jacob Rees-Mogg. It could be Anthony Joshua. It could be one of the fucking cleaners in the fucking cunt Daily Mail offices. It's absurd journalism to have that be 1/3rd of the front page of one of our biggest newspapers.

And Longshanks, who seems desperate to align himself as some sort of a fence-sitting "both sides" type, just parrots it straight out.

Being "balanced" doesn't mean turning off your critical faculties.

No I didn't parrot it straight out. I said "if reports are true"
Sorry if that confused you.

Which itself is completely misrepresenting what we're talking about.

If I repeated a fucking Brietbart headline while saying "if reports are true" I'd expect serious criticism. You're giving totally uncorroborated tabloid garbage from the Nazi paper a veneer of credibility by referring to their totally unsourced madey-uppey nonsense as "reports".

I don't take the word of the tabloids. I was saying this more in jest. No need to lose it.

It is impossible to tell that you were joking. Fair enough if so.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:22 pm It is impossible to tell that you were joking. Fair enough if so.

That's the trouble with text sometimes I suppose.

Is there a compromise landing zone? EU concedes the principle of UK sovereign waters, UK agrees no change for 5-10 years. Strict principles on LPF etc, a joint commission to ensure compliance.

There’s no way the UK government can cave on the sticking points, Boris has a 90 seat majority and so will get a deal through if he has something to sell. Really think the next move has to be from Europe.

What's the new final final final deadline now?

What's the level playing field concerns? Can't be state aid provisions because our Japan deal has strict state aid considerations. Is it environmental and workers rights considerations? If so, shouldn't be a problem. Unless the UK Govt want workers to have less rights and environmental standards than the EU. Guaranteed vote winner that.

Although probably is everyone in the UK despite having longest work hours and longest commute hours thinks everyone else is working hard enough.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:20 pm What's the level playing field concerns? Can't be state aid provisions because our Japan deal has strict state aid considerations. Is it environmental and workers rights considerations? If so, shouldn't be a problem. Unless the UK Govt want workers to have less rights and environmental standards than the EU. Guaranteed vote winner that.

Although probably is everyone in the UK despite having longest work hours and longest commute hours thinks everyone else is working hard enough.

Environmental and workers protection is part of it imo. They won’t say it but this is part of the red tape they want to cut.

Also for food, provisioning from overseas sources into prepared products will be in there.

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:26 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:02 am

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:48 am Micheal Martin again appealing for a deal, a compromise. But if reports are correct Angela Merkel has said she wants the UK to walk over broken glass, no compromise.
It's sadly No Deal day.

Waste of nearly 4 years. Should have just left at the end of 2016. We’d have worked out the kinks by now.

Exactly - We are leaving, how would you like this to work for our mutual benefit. 4 totally wasted years with remainers trying to damage the IK's position in the mean time. CUNTS

Stop being a hysterical old queen, the remainers are not in power, all the damage has been done by your hero the blonde bumblecunt and his cronies, stop reading the Daily Mail.

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:36 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:26 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:02 am

Waste of nearly 4 years. Should have just left at the end of 2016. We’d have worked out the kinks by now.

Exactly - We are leaving, how would you like this to work for our mutual benefit. 4 totally wasted years with remainers trying to damage the IK's position in the mean time. CUNTS

Stop being a hysterical old queen, the remainers are not in power, all the damage has been done by your hero the blonde bumblecunt and his cronies, stop reading the Daily Mail.

Amazing people can perform the mental gymnastics to blame Remainers. Really is quite amazing.

"Well it's your fault for not doing something you didn't have any power to do". Okayyyyyyyyyyyy.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:59 pm Fanatical lunacy reaching it peak? Gunboats to protect 'our fish'

I thought you were joking.

Apparently Boris is serious.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/12/12/gun ... esponsible

Rinkals wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:55 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:59 pm Fanatical lunacy reaching it peak? Gunboats to protect 'our fish'

I thought you were joking.

Apparently Boris is serious.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/12/12/gun ... esponsible

It will end the same way the Cod Wars did with the Brits folding like a cheap deck of cards

Rinkals wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:55 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:59 pm Fanatical lunacy reaching it peak? Gunboats to protect 'our fish'

I thought you were joking.

Apparently Boris is serious.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/12/12/gun ... esponsible

Why would he not be? A sovereign nation polices it’s fisheries. It isn’t like he’s planning on buzzing French fishermen with f-35s from the carriers

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:12 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:55 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:59 pm Fanatical lunacy reaching it peak? Gunboats to protect 'our fish'

I thought you were joking.

Apparently Boris is serious.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/12/12/gun ... esponsible

Why would he not be? A sovereign nation polices it’s fisheries. It isn’t like he’s planning on buzzing French fishermen with f-35s from the carriers

Carrier singular, the other is stranded at Portsmouth flooded, 6 months min. And none of the F35's are currently carrier based, they are in Norfolk.

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:24 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:12 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:55 pm

I thought you were joking.

Apparently Boris is serious.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/12/12/gun ... esponsible

Why would he not be? A sovereign nation polices it’s fisheries. It isn’t like he’s planning on buzzing French fishermen with f-35s from the carriers

Carrier singular, the other is stranded at Portsmouth flooded, 6 months min. And none of the F35's are currently carrier based, they are in Norfolk.

Was just a turn of phrase.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:58 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:38 pm FF
But what about the CFP? Quotas? Being in the EU you can't just catch what you want and hope nobody finds out.
You predict illegal fishing en masse, but I think that's you using hyperbole again. It'll be isolated instances.

Yeah; I do; & I think the UK talking about bring extra vessels in to police their waters shows they think there will be too. Just look at the cod wars !

I when to college with a couple of guys from Killybegs, which would be probably the largest Irish fishing town; & the shit the would talk about when it came to cheating the rules on the CFP .....

It's a big part of fishing everywhere from what I've seen & heard. It doesn't matter what the country is; commercial fishing is full of people who cheat the rules.

What extra vessels, one of our aircraft carriers without aircraft?

As I understand it we’ve kept the old patrol vessels that were going to be retired in service for this purpose. (IIRC it’s the class that provided the Falklands Patrol)

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:29 pm As I understand it we’ve kept the old patrol vessels that were going to be retired in service for this purpose. (IIRC it’s the class that provided the Falklands Patrol)

Even the fish will piss themselves laughing when those leaky buckets turn up

Rinkals wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:55 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:59 pm Fanatical lunacy reaching it peak? Gunboats to protect 'our fish'

I thought you were joking.

Apparently Boris is serious.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/12/12/gun ... esponsible

How does South Africa patrol its waters Rinkals?
I have no idea.