I thought they took a cut of the proceeds too, but searching anything involving the words 'world rugby' and 'rugby world cup' is proving a little futile at the moment so I can't back that up.
Ah, then it might be guaranteed money upfront, but if their cut of the takings go above they'll switch to taking their 'share'
If the world of rugby votes to send the event to places that don't stump up the cash upfront, and let's face if that's why we're in France not SA, that's what they vote for. It does beg the question how many nations can possibly be a sole host now? You'd have England and France, and then one off bids from Italy, USA, Australia maybe, maybe even SA if they can sort the finances (so probably not)
You could look a joint hosts, but it'd be a lot of money to stump up for say just one quarter-final and maybe a semi-final, depending on if there were 2 or 3 countries hosting
it's Australia in '27 and USA in '31, right? So two countries that couldn't care less about rugby (union, in Oz case), with shite kick-off times for big markets in Europe and SA. Not likely to be money spinners, those two.
But they'll both have needed to guarantee payments to the IRB, the risk the event does't make money is much more on the host nation than the wider game.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:12 pm
by BnM
Makes the case for expanding the tournament
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:26 pm
by Sandstorm
Love it!!
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:48 pm
by BnM
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Ah, then it might be guaranteed money upfront, but if their cut of the takings go above they'll switch to taking their 'share'
If the world of rugby votes to send the event to places that don't stump up the cash upfront, and let's face if that's why we're in France not SA, that's what they vote for. It does beg the question how many nations can possibly be a sole host now? You'd have England and France, and then one off bids from Italy, USA, Australia maybe, maybe even SA if they can sort the finances (so probably not)
You could look a joint hosts, but it'd be a lot of money to stump up for say just one quarter-final and maybe a semi-final, depending on if there were 2 or 3 countries hosting
it's Australia in '27 and USA in '31, right? So two countries that couldn't care less about rugby (union, in Oz case), with shite kick-off times for big markets in Europe and SA. Not likely to be money spinners, those two.
I think it was one of the sports radio shows here I heard the explanation on; the real reason why we're going to 24 teams for the next RWC, is so that the USA, & Canada can't fuck up qualification, & this is hoped to improve attendances.
It's makes sense from the POV of a room temperature IQ promoter, but it'll make for a shit load of dire matches, & I'll be amazed if it adds significantly to to the attendance figures.
6 pools of 4 would probably have fewer mismatches in fairness. Most games this week just gone were very valid last 16 matches anyway.
Re:US. Kick off times are fine for the Euro market if they play on the east coast. Assuming they’re fine not having so many night games
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
it's Australia in '27 and USA in '31, right? So two countries that couldn't care less about rugby (union, in Oz case), with shite kick-off times for big markets in Europe and SA. Not likely to be money spinners, those two.
I think it was one of the sports radio shows here I heard the explanation on; the real reason why we're going to 24 teams for the next RWC, is so that the USA, & Canada can't fuck up qualification, & this is hoped to improve attendances.
It's makes sense from the POV of a room temperature IQ promoter, but it'll make for a shit load of dire matches, & I'll be amazed if it adds significantly to to the attendance figures.
6 pools of 4 would probably have fewer mismatches in fairness. Most games this week just gone were very valid last 16 matches anyway.
Re:US. Kick off times are fine for the Euro market if they play on the east coast. Assuming they’re fine not having so many night games
6 pools of 4 is shit for the knock out phase though - 'best number 3' is a really bad way of sorting out qualifiers from non-qualifiers.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
I think it was one of the sports radio shows here I heard the explanation on; the real reason why we're going to 24 teams for the next RWC, is so that the USA, & Canada can't fuck up qualification, & this is hoped to improve attendances.
It's makes sense from the POV of a room temperature IQ promoter, but it'll make for a shit load of dire matches, & I'll be amazed if it adds significantly to to the attendance figures.
6 pools of 4 would probably have fewer mismatches in fairness. Most games this week just gone were very valid last 16 matches anyway.
Re:US. Kick off times are fine for the Euro market if they play on the east coast. Assuming they’re fine not having so many night games
6 pools of 4 is shit for the knock out phase though - 'best number 3' is a really bad way of sorting out qualifiers from non-qualifiers.
Sure, is it worse than what we have now? Alternatively we know the HEC had great drama going from 24 to 8
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 2:35 am
by Fonz
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:57 pm
I don't know, Canada are currently 23rd in the rankings, one above Hong Kong China, there is time for them to really fuck it up before the next World Cup.
I always supported Canada and it pains me to see them in the mire like this.
As for the USA, World Rugby are chasing the dollar but the USA has no real interest, football, proper football played with the feet, is the most popular sport in the world and I remember Pele trying to kick start the game there whilst he was still a great player, nowt, nada, no interest really in the men's game.
The USA will stick to their sports, why wouldn't they?
I tend to think Canada is a relatively easy fix (quit focusing on stupid-ass Sevens, get a decent coach, etc…the grassroots are still there). And even in the straits they’re in, they’re still basically on par with us and the rest of the decent-ish non-Argentina Western Hemisphere teams (with Uruguay a bit ahead of both of us).
As for the US, although I’m confident that rugby will play better with my countrymen than soccer, I’m not really sure there’s terribly much room for any sport to really grow in a meaningful way, even sports well-established here — hockey’s been trying to make inroads for nearly half a century, and it’s still totally irrelevant outside the same little pockets it had all those years ago. To say the sports market is over-saturated would be an understatement. I could expound, but suffice it to say I’ve more or less given up on seeing rugby properly grow here. Blackpilled, in the parlance of our times.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:27 am
by Insane_Homer
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:57 pm
I don't know, Canada are currently 23rd in the rankings, one above Hong Kong China, there is time for them to really fuck it up before the next World Cup.
I always supported Canada and it pains me to see them in the mire like this.
As for the USA, World Rugby are chasing the dollar but the USA has no real interest, football, proper football played with the feet, is the most popular sport in the world and I remember Pele trying to kick start the game there whilst he was still a great player, nowt, nada, no interest really in the men's game.
The USA will stick to their sports, why wouldn't they?
I tend to think Canada is a relatively easy fix (quit focusing on stupid-ass Sevens, get a decent coach, etc…the grassroots are still there). And even in the straits they’re in, they’re still basically on par with us and the rest of the decent-ish non-Argentina Western Hemisphere teams (with Uruguay a bit ahead of both of us).
As for the US, although I’m confident that rugby will play better with my countrymen than soccer, I’m not really sure there’s terribly much room for any sport to really grow in a meaningful way, even sports well-established here — hockey’s been trying to make inroads for nearly half a century, and it’s still totally irrelevant outside the same little pockets it had all those years ago. To say the sports market is over-saturated would be an understatement. I could expound, but suffice it to say I’ve more or less given up on seeing rugby properly grow here. Blackpilled, in the parlance of our times.
Yeah, from over here it looks like baseball is so ingrained into USA culture that it’s like football/soccer here, NFL and basketball also.
How big is athletics as a sport people would follow?
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
I think it was one of the sports radio shows here I heard the explanation on; the real reason why we're going to 24 teams for the next RWC, is so that the USA, & Canada can't fuck up qualification, & this is hoped to improve attendances.
It's makes sense from the POV of a room temperature IQ promoter, but it'll make for a shit load of dire matches, & I'll be amazed if it adds significantly to to the attendance figures.
6 pools of 4 would probably have fewer mismatches in fairness. Most games this week just gone were very valid last 16 matches anyway.
Re:US. Kick off times are fine for the Euro market if they play on the east coast. Assuming they’re fine not having so many night games
6 pools of 4 is shit for the knock out phase though - 'best number 3' is a really bad way of sorting out qualifiers from non-qualifiers.
I remember when having an Italian team in your Heineken Cup pool basically meant instant qualification.
People have been bitching about the current draw, imagine how bad it's going to get when the number of minnows/guaranteed bonus point wins in the pool starts to decide who goes through to the knockouts.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
6 pools of 4 would probably have fewer mismatches in fairness. Most games this week just gone were very valid last 16 matches anyway.
Re:US. Kick off times are fine for the Euro market if they play on the east coast. Assuming they’re fine not having so many night games
6 pools of 4 is shit for the knock out phase though - 'best number 3' is a really bad way of sorting out qualifiers from non-qualifiers.
I remember when having an Italian team in your Heineken Cup pool basically meant instant qualification.
People have been bitching about the current draw, imagine how bad it's going to get when the number of minnows/guaranteed bonus point wins in the pool starts to decide who goes through to the knockouts.
The only people really bitching like schoolgirls about the draw are morons and bad losers.
If you don't make the knockout stages you have no room to whine like a little child. Pathetic really
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 2:40 pm
by Niegs
The amount of people this his triggered on twitter is hilarious! Nowhere in the post do I see them claiming it's about 'team culture' or 'humility' (the conclusion the critics have jumped to, esp. Brits and Irish on there). Looks like lads having a bit of fun rather than rolling the one or two bags they have solo. And filming it with 'unmatched' ... social media person looking for content?
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:57 pm
I don't know, Canada are currently 23rd in the rankings, one above Hong Kong China, there is time for them to really fuck it up before the next World Cup.
I always supported Canada and it pains me to see them in the mire like this.
As for the USA, World Rugby are chasing the dollar but the USA has no real interest, football, proper football played with the feet, is the most popular sport in the world and I remember Pele trying to kick start the game there whilst he was still a great player, nowt, nada, no interest really in the men's game.
The USA will stick to their sports, why wouldn't they?
I tend to think Canada is a relatively easy fix (quit focusing on stupid-ass Sevens, get a decent coach, etc…the grassroots are still there). And even in the straits they’re in, they’re still basically on par with us and the rest of the decent-ish non-Argentina Western Hemisphere teams (with Uruguay a bit ahead of both of us).
As for the US, although I’m confident that rugby will play better with my countrymen than soccer, I’m not really sure there’s terribly much room for any sport to really grow in a meaningful way, even sports well-established here — hockey’s been trying to make inroads for nearly half a century, and it’s still totally irrelevant outside the same little pockets it had all those years ago. To say the sports market is over-saturated would be an understatement. I could expound, but suffice it to say I’ve more or less given up on seeing rugby properly grow here. Blackpilled, in the parlance of our times.
Yeah, from over here it looks like baseball is so ingrained into USA culture that it’s like football/soccer here, NFL and basketball also.
How big is athletics as a sport people would follow?
Follow? Virtually nonexistent, until a few years ago you practically never saw an athletics (or “track and field”, as we tend call it) event on TV outside of the Olympics. If the national championships or something fell during the lull in the sporting calendar (summer), they might put that on if it was a Saturday afternoon, but only that sort of thing. The need for more content has changed that a bit (as it has for rugby) but that’s basically it. Participation is a much different story, but as with every sport here, it’s pretty much totally confined to kids and a select few serious young adults in college, unless you count jogging and running marathons.
For the record, football is far and away the most popular sport here. Baseball occupies a weird place, ubiquitous in a certain sense but also sort of perpetually in the background. Everything else is essentially a niche sport. I suppose that rugby could aspire to become one of those, but the sporting landscape is somewhat ossified: the only real shakeup that I’ve seen in my time is the rise of soccer, which is due to a number of factors that aren’t applicable to rugby.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:40 pm
by charltom
Slightly random post about my annoyance at RWC for ticketing.
A different complaint to previous ones!
We bought "follow my team" packs for Scotland and England (the wife is English). Those automatically come with QF tickets if your team makes it through... but they didn't appear in our account until yesterday. Naturally transport is hard to find and frankly we're not too bothered about going to see Emgland as we've already been over a couple of times and will again for a SF.
So we've put the tickets on the resale site, only to find that RWC themselves are selling loads of fresh tickets too... and of course we're not allowed to adjust our price (even downwards) from face value...
So chances are we'll be left with Eur420 worth of tickets and there'll be lots of unseats at the stadium!
Anyone fancy a pair of category 2s at a discount?
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
I tend to think Canada is a relatively easy fix (quit focusing on stupid-ass Sevens, get a decent coach, etc…the grassroots are still there). And even in the straits they’re in, they’re still basically on par with us and the rest of the decent-ish non-Argentina Western Hemisphere teams (with Uruguay a bit ahead of both of us).
As for the US, although I’m confident that rugby will play better with my countrymen than soccer, I’m not really sure there’s terribly much room for any sport to really grow in a meaningful way, even sports well-established here — hockey’s been trying to make inroads for nearly half a century, and it’s still totally irrelevant outside the same little pockets it had all those years ago. To say the sports market is over-saturated would be an understatement. I could expound, but suffice it to say I’ve more or less given up on seeing rugby properly grow here. Blackpilled, in the parlance of our times.
Yeah, from over here it looks like baseball is so ingrained into USA culture that it’s like football/soccer here, NFL and basketball also.
How big is athletics as a sport people would follow?
Follow? Virtually nonexistent, until a few years ago you practically never saw an athletics (or “track and field”, as we tend call it) event on TV outside of the Olympics. If the national championships or something fell during the lull in the sporting calendar (summer), they might put that on if it was a Saturday afternoon, but only that sort of thing. The need for more content has changed that a bit (as it has for rugby) but that’s basically it. Participation is a much different story, but as with every sport here, it’s pretty much totally confined to kids and a select few serious young adults in college, unless you count jogging and running marathons.
For the record, football is far and away the most popular sport here. Baseball occupies a weird place, ubiquitous in a certain sense but also sort of perpetually in the background. Everything else is essentially a niche sport. I suppose that rugby could aspire to become one of those, but the sporting landscape is somewhat ossified: the only real shakeup that I’ve seen in my time is the rise of soccer, which is due to a number of factors that aren’t applicable to rugby.
Thanks.
I know the appeal of people like Michael Jordan in terms of how much sponsorship money he attracted, ie that was based on onward sales.
I've lost touch with Athletics/Track and Field, but like swimming the USA has had some outstanding talents, though I guess swimming is a bit "frat boy" sports.
My favourite sports person of all time is Michael Johnson, he does a regular pundit gig here when there are big competitions on tv.
edit, Maybe Ali is my favourite, I just don't like the sport any more.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:01 pm
by Tichtheid
charltom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:40 pm
Slightly random post about my annoyance at RWC for ticketing.
A different complaint to previous ones!
We bought "follow my team" packs for Scotland and England (the wife is English). Those automatically come with QF tickets if your team makes it through... but they didn't appear in our account until yesterday. Naturally transport is hard to find and frankly we're not too bothered about going to see Emgland as we've already been over a couple of times and will again for a SF.
So we've put the tickets on the resale site, only to find that RWC themselves are selling loads of fresh tickets too... and of course we're not allowed to adjust our price (even downwards) from face value...
So chances are we'll be left with Eur420 worth of tickets and there'll be lots of unseats at the stadium!
Anyone fancy a pair of category 2s at a discount?
What a pita - I hope you can sell them
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
I asked my dad (who’s retired in Portugal) if the win over Fiji got attention in the media there, to which he said “oh yeah, a lot”…he also added that apparently they’re planning some sort of ceremony to honor the rugby team before Portugal’s Euro qualifier match this weekend. Awesome stuff all around.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:19 pm
by Gumboot
Great stuff!
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:07 am
by Enzedder
If only Raquebi had lived to see that.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:26 am
by Gumboot
Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:07 am
If only Raquebi had lived to see that.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:55 am
by Grandpa
Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:07 am
If only Raquebi had lived to see that.
Who is Raquebi? Is he a former board member?
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:07 am
If only Raquebi had lived to see that.
Bloody hell, did Raqeubi die?
Yes, cancer.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:53 pm
by _Os_
Sad to hear this, I remember chatting about SA rugby with him way back.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:25 pm
by Gumboot
Didn't know they'd introduced a penalty shoot-out as a final tiebreaker for the knock out rounds...
Should a match be level at the end of 80 minutes, two halves of 10 minutes of extra time will be played in the first hope of finding a winner.
After that, 10 minutes of golden point, sudden death style play will take place, with the first scorer to advance as the victor.
But in the instance of both those tie breakers finishing even, both teams will take part in a football-style penalty shootout, with five players having a shot at goal from a series of positions across the field, until a winner is found.
Players need to have been on the field at the final whistle to take part in penalties, which could leave teams in difficult circumstances to determine what substitutions to make.
"Players need to have been on the field at the final whistle to take part in penalties"
Is that the final whistle of normal time, or the final whistle after the two OTs? And are subs allowed during extra time?
Beats a coin toss decider, I guess...
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:55 pm
by Kiwias
Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:07 am
If only Raquebi had lived to see that.
His was the first name to cross my mind when the final whistle blew. He would have been ecstatic.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 12:07 am
If only Raquebi had lived to see that.
His was the first name to cross my mind when the final whistle blew. He would have been ecstatic.
When did he die?
Enzed will know better than I do but he talked about being very unwell sometime late last year IIRC. He was a great poster to interact with and damn he looooved his rugby.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:28 pm
by BnM
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:17 pm
by _Os_
Two huge upsets. Never gave the Pumas a chance against Wales, and All Blacks winning was only an outside chance.
Awful performance by me in the tipping comp so far this round, I have scored zero points. All that's keeping me in it is almost no one calling a Pumas win and how far ahead I was.
Pumas have fucked me this RWC. Rated them pre-RWC and got stung for it, gave up on them, only for them to play close to pre-RWC potential (and for Wales to underperform a bit) and they're into a semi, infuriating. Just keep calling them wrong.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:45 pm
by Insane_Homer
inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:51 am
Robert Kitson showing remarkable insouciance to the mockers' gods:
Northern powerhouses aim to shut south out of World Cup semi-finals
Each quarter-final pits a northern hemisphere group winner against a runner-up from the southern hemisphere. Could a historic lockout be made in France this weekend?
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:22 am
by sockwithaticket
_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:17 pmTwo huge upsets. Never gave the Pumas a chance against Wales, and All Blacks winning was only an outside chance.
Awful performance by me in the tipping comp so far this round, I have scored zero points. All that's keeping me in it is almost no one calling a Pumas win and how far ahead I was.
Pumas have fucked me this RWC. Rated them pre-RWC and got stung for it, gave up on them, only for them to play close to pre-RWC potential (and for Wales to underperform a bit) and they're into a semi, infuriating. Just keep calling them wrong.
There's no way the Pumas turning over Wales is a huge upset. Argentina almost always have ropey/inconsistent form, but are more than capable of turning it on and taking out someone decent and this Wales side is pretty ordinary.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:17 pmTwo huge upsets. Never gave the Pumas a chance against Wales, and All Blacks winning was only an outside chance.
Awful performance by me in the tipping comp so far this round, I have scored zero points. All that's keeping me in it is almost no one calling a Pumas win and how far ahead I was.
Pumas have fucked me this RWC. Rated them pre-RWC and got stung for it, gave up on them, only for them to play close to pre-RWC potential (and for Wales to underperform a bit) and they're into a semi, infuriating. Just keep calling them wrong.
There's no way the Pumas turning over Wales is a huge upset. Argentina almost always have ropey/inconsistent form, but are more than capable of turning it on and taking out someone decent and this Wales side is pretty ordinary.
Wales were heavy favourites and in the tipping comp of 400k rugby nerds, 83% backed Wales. Pumas winning was a huge upset.
But then as Torq has been saying for awhile, it's difficult to know what Pumas team is turning up. Could they beat the All Blacks? Yes, because this Pumas team has done so. Would it be a huge upset if they did? Yes, because like Wales the All Blacks will be heavy favourites.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:13 am
by Niegs
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:34 am
by sefton
SH sweep incoming. Some NH pundits are going to look like parochial gobshites.
Re: The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:17 pmTwo huge upsets. Never gave the Pumas a chance against Wales, and All Blacks winning was only an outside chance.
Awful performance by me in the tipping comp so far this round, I have scored zero points. All that's keeping me in it is almost no one calling a Pumas win and how far ahead I was.
Pumas have fucked me this RWC. Rated them pre-RWC and got stung for it, gave up on them, only for them to play close to pre-RWC potential (and for Wales to underperform a bit) and they're into a semi, infuriating. Just keep calling them wrong.
There's no way the Pumas turning over Wales is a huge upset. Argentina almost always have ropey/inconsistent form, but are more than capable of turning it on and taking out someone decent and this Wales side is pretty ordinary.
Wales were heavy favourites and in the tipping comp of 400k rugby nerds, 83% backed Wales. Pumas winning was a huge upset.
But then as Torq has been saying for awhile, it's difficult to know what Pumas team is turning up. Could they beat the All Blacks? Yes, because this Pumas team has done so. Would it be a huge upset if they did? Yes, because like Wales the All Blacks will be heavy favourites.
That is absolutely insane. The only way I can fathom that many people back Wales is if they've barely or never seen Argentina over the last several seasons and/or know nothing about Argentina's tendency to get their shit somewhat together for a world cup.
Argies beating the Kiwis would be a huge upset, a magnitude more so than beating Wales.
