NPR

Slick wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:09 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:37 am Sikora really is a fucking grifter.

I see some of the other Great Barrington Declaration types went totally nutso over the last year. Gupta claiming that "repeated infection" is the only way forward if we want herd immunity was a real highlight. Bhattacharya is as anti-everything as ever, and was on Fox talking about how repeat boosters are bad for the immune system - ffs.

What is their end game in this? They must know that they are being, at best, disingenuous. Sikora above must know about comorbidities and what that means to the argument. Is it just for publicity/ego?

I'm sure someone's done a deep dive, but yeah, your choices are: some sort of uber-libertarian fanaticism / ego & publicity / money. Pick one or several!

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:24 am

Rinkals wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:28 am I had this sent to me today.

As discussed on the GB News channel on 19/1/22 in an interview with Professor Karol Sikora, ex WHO Head of Cancer.

The UK Office for National Statistics has stated that to date there have been 17,371 UK deaths solely from Covid.

The average age of death from Covid was
82.5 years, which is over the average UK age of death generally.

On average 700,000 people die every year in the UK

The clear implication is that the pandemic had no effect and all measures (including vaccination) were unjustified.

How do I respond? Are the figures accurate?

As I understand it, Sweden did not implement any measures to protect their population, but I haven't heard anything on whether they were justified.

I suppose I should be looking this stuff up for myself, but there is so much shit out there and I wouldn't mind getting opinions from the bored.

I'm not sure you can really contest such material. The people spreading it are not going to be convinced otherwise and the people receptive to taking in such material, it's going to be difficult to convince them of the difference between real and pseudo-science.

I know what you're saying, but I want to speak out against such misinformation.

I have already responded asking for context and clarification in line with Biffer's suggestion and have had others who had been silent speak up, so I think it's important that this sort of propaganda is challenged.

Rinkals wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:42 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:24 am

Rinkals wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:28 am I had this sent to me today.



The clear implication is that the pandemic had no effect and all measures (including vaccination) were unjustified.

How do I respond? Are the figures accurate?

As I understand it, Sweden did not implement any measures to protect their population, but I haven't heard anything on whether they were justified.

I suppose I should be looking this stuff up for myself, but there is so much shit out there and I wouldn't mind getting opinions from the bored.

I'm not sure you can really contest such material. The people spreading it are not going to be convinced otherwise and the people receptive to taking in such material, it's going to be difficult to convince them of the difference between real and pseudo-science.

I know what you're saying, but I want to speak out against such misinformation.

I have already responded asking for context and clarification in line with Biffer's suggestion and have had others who had been silent speak up, so I think it's important that this sort of propaganda is challenged.

It's important to not let it stand. The folk who send you this stuff will take silence as an indication that you agree or that you're a target to provide more misinfo to.

The other example to quote is HIV/AIDS. How many people die 'just of AIDS'? virtually no one. They die of other things that AIDS has made them vulnerable to. It's a really misinformed way to look at the effect of an illness.

Ta.

I shall use that going forward.

Here is the response.



Am I reading it right?

Does it say that 2020 had 118.5 more people per 1,000 died than 2019 (an increase of 11.85%)? But that in 2008 and prior to that the mortality rate was comparable, or even worse than in the pandemic?

[Edit - Thanks, Ymx]

Rinkals wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:15 am Here is the response.



Am I reading it right?

Does it say that 2020 had 118.5 more people per 1,000 died than 2019 (an increase of 11.85%)? But that in 2008 and prior to that the mortality rate was comparable, or even worse than in the pandemic?

Fixed img

Rinkals wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:15 am Here is the response.



Am I reading it right?

Does it say that 2020 had 118.5 more people per 1,000 died than 2019 (an increase of 11.85%)? But that in 2008 and prior to that the mortality rate was comparable, or even worse than in the pandemic?

[Edit - Thanks, Ymx]

118.5 per 100,000.

Yes, that’s what it’s saying. It also takes age in to account.

I have to admit that is surprising and interesting.

Clearly though, there was a big uncharacteristic increase by 13% from 2019.

Our health service was not equipped to handle the increase in severe respiratory problems in those periods. Deaths were nearly 100% higher than norm!

Also, we did actually lock down! Over the year, what would these have looked like had we not and allowed that huge excess continue? The ASMR would have been one hell of a lot lot higher without the lock down intervention with that continuing. 1800 or perhaps even higher.



There’s no denying the April and end of year (/start of next year). Massive excess when it was relaxed. The excess above the dotted line.

Just shows how well we've done keeping people alive in the last 20 years. I know in Ireland we raised the life expectancy of our population by 6 years since 2000.

So there's a couple of things there.

I'm not sure what they're trying to say that proves. That's an age standardised rate so doesn't translate directly to excess deaths.
It doesn't say anything about the previous point about solely from covid. The most obvious thing it suggests is that the pandemic death toll is the equivalent of all the life expectancy gains of medical improvements from new treatments and new drugs in the last ten to fifteen years.

Wrinkles wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:32 am

Rinkals wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:15 am Here is the response.



Am I reading it right?

Does it say that 2020 had 118.5 more people per 1,000 died than 2019 (an increase of 11.85%)? But that in 2008 and prior to that the mortality rate was comparable, or even worse than in the pandemic?

[Edit - Thanks, Ymx]

118.5 per 100,000.

Yes, sorry, typo.

Balls, it has entered the Slick household - 5 year old tested negative this morning, positive this evening.

He’s feeling a bit rough poor lad.

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:35 pm Balls, it has entered the Slick household - 5 year old tested negative this morning, positive this evening.

He’s feeling a bit rough poor lad.

All the best with it mate, for you and family.

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:35 pm Balls, it has entered the Slick household - 5 year old tested negative this morning, positive this evening.

He’s feeling a bit rough poor lad.

Going to be very hard not to catch it off him I'm afraid.

My Cork counterpart misunderstood the rules re isolation.
One of his boys tested positive on antigen last weekend. Didn't get antigen till Tuesday. His wife started feeling unwell on Tuesday but didn't get PCR until yesterday. He thought his other boys would come out of isolation today but he forgot that close contacts isolate for longer than the people who actually have COVID.

On top of that, his missus got her positive result today so the clock is reset for all of them.

Lesson is to get the PCR test quickly.

Ymx wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:51 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:35 pm Balls, it has entered the Slick household - 5 year old tested negative this morning, positive this evening.

He’s feeling a bit rough poor lad.

All the best with it mate, for you and family.

Thanks mate

Uncle fester wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:23 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:35 pm Balls, it has entered the Slick household - 5 year old tested negative this morning, positive this evening.

He’s feeling a bit rough poor lad.

Going to be very hard not to catch it off him I'm afraid.

My Cork counterpart misunderstood the rules re isolation.
One of his boys tested positive on antigen last weekend. Didn't get antigen till Tuesday. His wife started feeling unwell on Tuesday but didn't get PCR until yesterday. He thought his other boys would come out of isolation today but he forgot that close contacts isolate for longer than the people who actually have COVID.

On top of that, his missus got her positive result today so the clock is reset for all of them.

Lesson is to get the PCR test quickly.

I thought that he isolates but as long as we stay negative we don’t have to? Seems a bit crazy but that’s how I understood it

Uncle fester wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:24 am

Rinkals wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:28 am I had this sent to me today.

As discussed on the GB News channel on 19/1/22 in an interview with Professor Karol Sikora, ex WHO Head of Cancer.

The UK Office for National Statistics has stated that to date there have been 17,371 UK deaths solely from Covid.

The average age of death from Covid was
82.5 years, which is over the average UK age of death generally.

On average 700,000 people die every year in the UK

The clear implication is that the pandemic had no effect and all measures (including vaccination) were unjustified.

How do I respond? Are the figures accurate?

As I understand it, Sweden did not implement any measures to protect their population, but I haven't heard anything on whether they were justified.

I suppose I should be looking this stuff up for myself, but there is so much shit out there and I wouldn't mind getting opinions from the bored.

I'm not sure you can really contest such material. The people spreading it are not going to be convinced otherwise and the people receptive to taking in such material, it's going to be difficult to convince them of the difference between real and pseudo-science.

The figures are from a FOI to the ONS
No matter who is mentioning this you cant dispute the figures.

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:26 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:23 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:35 pm Balls, it has entered the Slick household - 5 year old tested negative this morning, positive this evening.

He’s feeling a bit rough poor lad.

Going to be very hard not to catch it off him I'm afraid.

My Cork counterpart misunderstood the rules re isolation.
One of his boys tested positive on antigen last weekend. Didn't get antigen till Tuesday. His wife started feeling unwell on Tuesday but didn't get PCR until yesterday. He thought his other boys would come out of isolation today but he forgot that close contacts isolate for longer than the people who actually have COVID.

On top of that, his missus got her positive result today so the clock is reset for all of them.

Lesson is to get the PCR test quickly.

I thought that he isolates but as long as we stay negative we don’t have to? Seems a bit crazy but that’s how I understood it

The rules keep on changing here so presuming same there it's no wonder everyone is confused. What we have to do is based on vaccination status. But there are scenarios where all you have to do is make sure you wear a proper mask and do regular antigen.

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:25 pm

Ymx wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:51 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:35 pm Balls, it has entered the Slick household - 5 year old tested negative this morning, positive this evening.

He’s feeling a bit rough poor lad.

All the best with it mate, for you and family.

Thanks mate

Yes, hope he recovers fully, without issues, and that the rest of yours avoid it altogether.

Rinkals wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:00 am

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:25 pm

Ymx wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:51 pm

All the best with it mate, for you and family.

Thanks mate

Yes, hope he recovers fully, without issues, and that the rest of yours avoid it altogether.

Thanks Rinkals. The boy is much better today so just awaiting the incoming for the rest of us!

Lots of runny nose and sneezing?

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:26 pm

Uncle fester wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:23 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:35 pm Balls, it has entered the Slick household - 5 year old tested negative this morning, positive this evening.

He’s feeling a bit rough poor lad.

Going to be very hard not to catch it off him I'm afraid.

My Cork counterpart misunderstood the rules re isolation.
One of his boys tested positive on antigen last weekend. Didn't get antigen till Tuesday. His wife started feeling unwell on Tuesday but didn't get PCR until yesterday. He thought his other boys would come out of isolation today but he forgot that close contacts isolate for longer than the people who actually have COVID.

On top of that, his missus got her positive result today so the clock is reset for all of them.

Lesson is to get the PCR test quickly.

I thought that he isolates but as long as we stay negative we don’t have to? Seems a bit crazy but that’s how I understood it

Sorry, should have been clearer. It's his other children who have their isolation clock reset.

So Ireland has lifted most restrictions. Will be carnage in the pubs.

Just browsing NZ news, Cindy is doing a sudden press conference.

Likely it’s breached NZ border. Probably for the best for them. Trapping delta in and keeping omicron out isnt really a great plan.

Christ on a bike

Jacinda Ardern will force household Covid contacts to isolate for 24 DAYS in new crackdown as NZ braces for Omicron outbreak

The presser is on now … and we (all of NZ) are moving to red from tonight. It’s not a lockdown, but more restrictions. There are multiple cases in Nelson who had been at a wedding in Auckland so they suspect unknown transmission was happening there.

Uncle fester wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:00 am So Ireland has lifted most restrictions. Will be carnage in the pubs.

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:38 pm The presser is on now … and we (all of NZ) are moving to red from tonight. It’s not a lockdown, but more restrictions. There are multiple cases in Nelson who had been at a wedding in Auckland so they suspect unknown transmission was happening there.

Well if you're going to host a super spreader event; I can't think of anything better than a Wedding. That & schools; & I think you can look forward to Omicron running thru your entire population over the next couple of months.

The Lesson from Europe is that Omicron isn't blocked by anything; & as the German Minister said; by the end of this; you either vaccinated; infected, & but okay; or dead !

Thank your lucky stars you've used your gap to get vaccinated !

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:48 pm

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:38 pm The presser is on now … and we (all of NZ) are moving to red from tonight. It’s not a lockdown, but more restrictions. There are multiple cases in Nelson who had been at a wedding in Auckland so they suspect unknown transmission was happening there.

Well if you're going to host a super spreader event; I can't think of anything better than a Wedding. That & schools; & I think you can look forward to Omicron running thru your entire population over the next couple of months.

The Lesson from Europe is that Omicron isn't blocked by anything; & as the German Minister said; by the end of this; you either vaccinated; infected, & but okay; or dead !

Thank your lucky stars you've used your gap to get vaccinated !

I’m meant to be at a rescheduled wedding in a couple of weeks. I am boostered and ready to go but am in two minds about whether I want to make the now 100 guest list cut off. A weekend away without needing to attend a wedding which is more of my wife’s friends than mine doesn’t sound too bad.

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:53 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:48 pm

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:38 pm The presser is on now … and we (all of NZ) are moving to red from tonight. It’s not a lockdown, but more restrictions. There are multiple cases in Nelson who had been at a wedding in Auckland so they suspect unknown transmission was happening there.

Well if you're going to host a super spreader event; I can't think of anything better than a Wedding. That & schools; & I think you can look forward to Omicron running thru your entire population over the next couple of months.

The Lesson from Europe is that Omicron isn't blocked by anything; & as the German Minister said; by the end of this; you either vaccinated; infected, & but okay; or dead !

Thank your lucky stars you've used your gap to get vaccinated !

I’m meant to be at a rescheduled wedding in a couple of weeks. I am boostered and ready to go but am in two minds about whether I want to make the now 100 guest list cut off. A weekend away without needing to attend a wedding which is more of my wife’s friends than mine doesn’t sound too bad.

It's always tough to anticipate how things will go with Covid; but if the the stuff you guys have been saying about the general state of your Health service is accurate; you're in the same position we've gone thru; & you'll see a lot of additional hospitalizations; but your ICU cases won't be too bad; but it may be that elective surgery etc; will be cancelled.

I those circumstances; the Government may well ratchet up the lockdown in a week, & then again on two weeks; until those numbers stabilize.

I'd be talking to the hotels etc; & asking what they can do if the Government says nothing goes ahead, or they say only; say 25 people can attend. They all want to get paid; & everyone wants to attend, but what we all want, isn't whats guaranteed to happen.

I think it’s fair and reasonable to blame NSW for the current NZ outbreak.

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:04 pm

I those circumstances; the Government may well ratchet up the lockdown in a week, & then again on two weeks; until those numbers stabilize.

What lockdown?

We won't lockdown again. We've hit over 90% vaccinated and we're into booster shots now. They held it back as long as they could getting those preparations as ready as possible and now we're going to see what happens when it gets a run on.

Like Western Australia, the general population which has largely been protected from that scenario will have to deal with the reality of Covid en masse. The numbers will rocket up, plateau and then fall away, people will get sick and take time off and the govt will cover lost earnings up to a point.

We're about as ready as we could be and I think we'll come through it without too much damage or loss of life.

This can’t be true right? (It’s from the daily mail).

Jacinda Ardern will force household Covid contacts to isolate for 24 DAYS in new crackdown as NZ braces for Omicron outbreak

With omicron, the rest of the world was scrambling to reduce isolation for those infected to a week, let alone those in the household. It’s spread in unstoppable.

This 24 days is likely worse than full lockdown as it takes down key workers and services.

Ymx wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:30 am This can’t be true right? (It’s from the daily mail).

Jacinda Ardern will force household Covid contacts to isolate for 24 DAYS in new crackdown as NZ braces for Omicron outbreak

With omicron, the rest of the world was scrambling to reduce isolation for those infected to a week, let alone those in the household. It’s spread in unstoppable.

This 24 days is likely worse than full lockdown as it takes down key workers and services.

It true, I think. It was detailed in the article below but the explanation of timing isn’t that clear - at least not to me.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/c ... or-24-days

Jb1981 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:49 am

Ymx wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:30 am This can’t be true right? (It’s from the daily mail).

Jacinda Ardern will force household Covid contacts to isolate for 24 DAYS in new crackdown as NZ braces for Omicron outbreak

With omicron, the rest of the world was scrambling to reduce isolation for those infected to a week, let alone those in the household. It’s spread in unstoppable.

This 24 days is likely worse than full lockdown as it takes down key workers and services.

It true, I think. It was detailed in the article below but the explanation of timing isn’t that clear - at least not to me.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/c ... or-24-days

https://covid19.govt.nz/testing-and-tra ... -contacts/

What you need to do
Whether you are vaccinated or not, you need to:

stay home and self-isolate from others for 10 days from your last contact with the case
get a test for COVID-19 straight away, on day 5, and on day 8 after your last contact with the case
get another test straight away if you develop COVID-19 symptoms.

So Pfizer is currently attempting to develop a vaccine that will be effective against Omicron.
Meanwhile, Jackboot Jac is insisting that NZers take the Pfizer booster before Omicron swamps the streets with runny stuff from out of the nose.

The contradiction in those above two sentences is jarring.
I need an explanation from you nerdish "Follow the Science' wokes to help me get my head around the absurdity.

nerdish "Follow the Science' wokes

We had a letter from the school on Thursday saying that there had been 9 cases reported the previous day across the school

Over the weekend there has been 11 cases (including the boy) in my sons class of 20 alone. Crazy thing

Slick wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:30 am We had a letter from the school on Thursday saying that there had been 9 cases reported the previous day across the school

Over the weekend there has been 11 cases (including the boy) in my sons class of 20 alone. Crazy thing

Ramping up herd immunity and making the disease non reportable like the flu etc.
I've go half a day of VCOD conversations with clinical staff on Thursday.

I suspect the Govt will U turn on mandatory vaccines in England for NHS patient facing staff.

convoluted wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:27 am So Pfizer is currently attempting to develop a vaccine that will be effective against Omicron.
Meanwhile, Jackboot Jac is insisting that NZers take the Pfizer booster before Omicron swamps the streets with runny stuff from out of the nose.

The contradiction in those above two sentences is jarring.
I need an explanation from you nerdish "Follow the Science' wokes to help me get my head around the absurdity.

Reality isn't binary. Things can work better than other things.

3 doses of the existing vaccines have been proven to be highly effective at preventing serious illness from Omicron. It is less effective at preventing Omicron with symptoms, and less effective still at preventing transmission (though it does reduce transmission).

A vaccine targeted specifically at Omicron would be better at preventing transmission with fewer doses - giving 3 staggered doses of the existing vaccines takes 6+ months and is obviously 3x the logistical effort of a single dose.

Mahoney wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:45 am

convoluted wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:27 am So Pfizer is currently attempting to develop a vaccine that will be effective against Omicron.
Meanwhile, Jackboot Jac is insisting that NZers take the Pfizer booster before Omicron swamps the streets with runny stuff from out of the nose.

The contradiction in those above two sentences is jarring.
I need an explanation from you nerdish "Follow the Science' wokes to help me get my head around the absurdity.

Reality isn't binary. Things can work better than other things.

3 doses of the existing vaccines have been proven to be highly effective at preventing serious illness from Omicron. It is less effective at preventing Omicron with symptoms, and less effective still at preventing transmission (though it does reduce transmission).

A vaccine targeted specifically at Omicron would be better at preventing transmission with fewer doses - giving 3 staggered doses of the existing vaccines takes 6+ months and is obviously 3x the logistical effort of a single dose.

I'm glad someone could be arsed to reply to that ludicrous post.