So, coronavirus...

Where goats go to escape
dpedin
Posts: 3433
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:35 am

petej wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:53 pm
dpedin wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:34 pm
petej wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:15 pm
Japan is far more isolated than the UK in more ways than just geography. It is a lazy comparison in much the same way using Sweden as an example for the anti-lockdown movement was for rightwing dingbats in the USA and UK.
Nah it's not. Its not lazy, I've given you facts and you come back with vague assertions based on nothing but your own personal view of the world.
You've given bugger all facts. Zero on what different PH measures Japan took compared to the UK. The obesity differences being relatively small is laughable. 4.97% adult males in Japan compared to 27.88% in the UK is a huge difference.
https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/
I kicked off this thread with facts about the different death rates in Japan and the UK!

Japan's type 2 diabetes prevalence is 44% higher than the UK. Diabetes is an acknowledged high risk factor for mortality. There isn't a 'risk factor' associated reason why Japan have had a significantly lower covid death rate than the UK that I have found, certainly not one that explains a difference in death rate of 1:500 in UK compared with 1:7,000 in Japan! Indeed age seems to be the highest key risk factor and we can see this from the age profile of covid deaths in the UK - however in Japan 27% of the population is over 65 compared with only 18.5% in the UK. Again we can't use this to explain the difference in death rates?

The difference in death rates can only be explained by the Government's PH preparedness and responses and the population/societal response to adhering to these PH strategies. Some of the differences will be related to Japan's learning from previous outbreaks of similar types of virus (SARS and MERS) and therefore the lessons they have learnt in how to deal with them. However there is no reason for the UK Gov not to have learnt from these outbreaks as well. To back to where I started to claim the Blonde Bumblecunt managed the covid pandemic well is just plain wrong.
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Ymx
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On the deaths/comorbidities

Thought this was a worthwhile read.

Covid: Posts claiming only 17,000 died of virus 'factually incorrect'


A misleading claim that "only" 17,000 people in England and Wales have died of Covid has been circulating online. The UK's Office for National Statistics (ONS) has stepped in to correct the record - but not before the false claim went viral.

"It has become a weapon of the cruel and heartless to dismiss the deaths of the people we love."

Matt Fowler lost his dad to Covid-19 in April 2020. Ian Fowler was 56 at the time of his death, and lived with type 2 diabetes - which his son said had a "minor, barely perceptible impact on his life that he controlled with his diet".

But the suggestion that "only" 17,000 people in England and Wales have died of Covid - a figure arrived at by removing from the data anyone with a pre-existing health condition - completely discounts the deaths of people like Ian.

The true death toll is more than 140,000, the ONS says. That number is limited to deaths directly caused by the virus, not those "involving" Covid or people who happened to test positive but died of other causes.
There are other ways of calculating deaths by the virus, but all give figures in a similar ballpark.

Kernel of truth

Covid myths that spread on social media very often have a kernel of fact at their heart - a real statistic that gets misused - to tell a story which ends up far from reality. In this case, that information was figures released by the ONS looking at people who died of Covid and who had no other health conditions.
But the false implication made in social media posts - that if someone had any pre-existing health condition, they did not really die of the virus - doesn't logically follow.

"It is very common for the person dying to have a pre-existing health condition of some sort, but this does not mean that the person was at imminent risk of dying from that condition, or even considered to have a reduced life expectancy," the ONS explained.
It described the 17,000 figure as "factually incorrect and highly misleading".

Seven enduring anti-lockdown claims fact-checked
Covid map: Where are cases the highest?
Deaths which would not have been counted in the 17,000 include people with asthma, diabetes, an irregular heartbeat or high blood pressure - all conditions with which many can expect to live a normal lifespan. In other words, these are not terminal conditions that would have killed people had they not caught Covid.

"It wasn't type 2 diabetes that killed my dad, it was Covid-19," says Mr Fowler, who co-founded the group Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice. "Were it not for the unchecked spread of the virus, my dad would still be alive today."

He describes such posts as "deeply offensive" and condemns people on social media for peddling "heartless conspiracy theories...to attack us in our grief".

'They know their dad, 34, isn't coming home'
Covid bereaved families 'fuming' at No 10 party
How death certificates really work
The idea, popular in some online groups, that a large proportion of virus deaths are people who died "with" but not necessarily "of" Covid - coincidentally testing positive when dying of another cause - is based on a misinterpretation of how deaths are recorded.

When doctors fill in death certificates, they record the chain of events that led directly to a patient's death based on physical examinations, tests, symptoms and medical records.

For example, someone may catch Covid, which causes pneumonia, which leads to acute respiratory distress syndrome (Ards), culminating in their death. A doctor would list all three as causes.

If someone was in hospital dying of another cause and happened to test positive for Covid, it would not be recorded in the same way.

There is another section of the death certificate form where doctors can add pre-existing conditions which may have contributed, like asthma.

In some cases, the underlying condition may be very serious, like cancer or dementia. But the fact a doctor decided to note it in this separate section, and not as an underlying cause, suggests the patient would not have died then just because of that condition alone.

As an extreme example, imagine someone is stabbed but had an irregular heartbeat which contributed to cardiac failure when they were attacked. The irregular heartbeat might appear on their death certificate, but we wouldn't say the person who stabbed them was not responsible for their death.

The idea that deaths can be mistakenly recorded as being due to Covid-19 can occasionally be true when considering a different measure used in the UK - deaths within 28 days of a Covid positive test.

However, even those cases which may be erroneously picked up by that statistic aren't artificially inflating the death toll. In fact, the figure for deaths within 28 days of a positive Covid test are actually lower than the number of death certificates listing Covid-19 as the cause.
That's because some people are ill for longer than 28 days before dying of Covid.
6,000 deaths?

To complicate things further, another claim started to circulate at the same time the 17,000 claim went viral - that the death toll was in fact only 6,000.

This is the number of people with just Covid-19 and nothing else on their death certificate - and is possibly even more inaccurate since it excludes people with conditions directly caused by Covid. That means the example above, of someone who caught Covid which developed into pneumonia, would not be counted as a Covid death.

While it's been made clear from the start of the pandemic that older and sicker people are at much higher risk from the virus, research has found on average people who died of Covid lost 10 years of life.
How did the claims spread?

The misleading "17,000" figure was spread by influential accounts online. On 14 January, former Islamist turned counter-extremism activist Maajid Nawaz tweeted that the figures were evidence of "narrative collapse", implying the larger reported death figures were not genuine.

Then on 20 January, Dr John Campbell, a retired nurse educator who has amassed a huge following on YouTube, released a video describing the figures as a "huge story" and suggested Covid deaths were "much lower than mainstream media seems to have been intimating".
His video has been viewed more than 1.5 million times to date and was shared by Conservative MP David Davis.

On the same day, The Daily Expose, a website that has published a variety of misleading and false claims, posted an article falsely claiming the ONS had: "admit[ted] just 6,000 people died of Covid-19 in England and Wales".

This and related claims began to spread in the following days: to French accounts, a 50,000-member Greek Facebook group, a Swedish group of 20,000 people and a Slovakian political blogger, suggesting the government had distorted death figures or been "forced to tell the truth".

The ONS said: "To exclude individuals with any pre-existing conditions... greatly understates the number of people who died from Covid-19 and who might well still be alive had the pandemic not occurred."

The BBC has contacted Mr Nawaz, Dr Campbell and Mr Davis.
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Insane_Homer
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So his immune system now needs ivermectin et al to fight his 'bad cold' :lol:
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”
westport
Posts: 849
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:45 am

Ymx wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:54 pm On the deaths/comorbidities

Thought this was a worthwhile read.

Covid: Posts claiming only 17,000 died of virus 'factually incorrect'


A misleading claim that "only" 17,000 people in England and Wales have died of Covid has been circulating online. The UK's Office for National Statistics (ONS) has stepped in to correct the record - but not before the false claim went viral.

"It has become a weapon of the cruel and heartless to dismiss the deaths of the people we love."

Matt Fowler lost his dad to Covid-19 in April 2020. Ian Fowler was 56 at the time of his death, and lived with type 2 diabetes - which his son said had a "minor, barely perceptible impact on his life that he controlled with his diet".

But the suggestion that "only" 17,000 people in England and Wales have died of Covid - a figure arrived at by removing from the data anyone with a pre-existing health condition - completely discounts the deaths of people like Ian.

The true death toll is more than 140,000, the ONS says. That number is limited to deaths directly caused by the virus, not those "involving" Covid or people who happened to test positive but died of other causes.
There are other ways of calculating deaths by the virus, but all give figures in a similar ballpark.

Kernel of truth

Covid myths that spread on social media very often have a kernel of fact at their heart - a real statistic that gets misused - to tell a story which ends up far from reality. In this case, that information was figures released by the ONS looking at people who died of Covid and who had no other health conditions.
But the false implication made in social media posts - that if someone had any pre-existing health condition, they did not really die of the virus - doesn't logically follow.

"It is very common for the person dying to have a pre-existing health condition of some sort, but this does not mean that the person was at imminent risk of dying from that condition, or even considered to have a reduced life expectancy," the ONS explained.
It described the 17,000 figure as "factually incorrect and highly misleading".

Seven enduring anti-lockdown claims fact-checked
Covid map: Where are cases the highest?
Deaths which would not have been counted in the 17,000 include people with asthma, diabetes, an irregular heartbeat or high blood pressure - all conditions with which many can expect to live a normal lifespan. In other words, these are not terminal conditions that would have killed people had they not caught Covid.

"It wasn't type 2 diabetes that killed my dad, it was Covid-19," says Mr Fowler, who co-founded the group Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice. "Were it not for the unchecked spread of the virus, my dad would still be alive today."

He describes such posts as "deeply offensive" and condemns people on social media for peddling "heartless conspiracy theories...to attack us in our grief".

'They know their dad, 34, isn't coming home'
Covid bereaved families 'fuming' at No 10 party
How death certificates really work
The idea, popular in some online groups, that a large proportion of virus deaths are people who died "with" but not necessarily "of" Covid - coincidentally testing positive when dying of another cause - is based on a misinterpretation of how deaths are recorded.

When doctors fill in death certificates, they record the chain of events that led directly to a patient's death based on physical examinations, tests, symptoms and medical records.

For example, someone may catch Covid, which causes pneumonia, which leads to acute respiratory distress syndrome (Ards), culminating in their death. A doctor would list all three as causes.

If someone was in hospital dying of another cause and happened to test positive for Covid, it would not be recorded in the same way.

There is another section of the death certificate form where doctors can add pre-existing conditions which may have contributed, like asthma.

In some cases, the underlying condition may be very serious, like cancer or dementia. But the fact a doctor decided to note it in this separate section, and not as an underlying cause, suggests the patient would not have died then just because of that condition alone.

As an extreme example, imagine someone is stabbed but had an irregular heartbeat which contributed to cardiac failure when they were attacked. The irregular heartbeat might appear on their death certificate, but we wouldn't say the person who stabbed them was not responsible for their death.

The idea that deaths can be mistakenly recorded as being due to Covid-19 can occasionally be true when considering a different measure used in the UK - deaths within 28 days of a Covid positive test.

However, even those cases which may be erroneously picked up by that statistic aren't artificially inflating the death toll. In fact, the figure for deaths within 28 days of a positive Covid test are actually lower than the number of death certificates listing Covid-19 as the cause.
That's because some people are ill for longer than 28 days before dying of Covid.
6,000 deaths?

To complicate things further, another claim started to circulate at the same time the 17,000 claim went viral - that the death toll was in fact only 6,000.

This is the number of people with just Covid-19 and nothing else on their death certificate - and is possibly even more inaccurate since it excludes people with conditions directly caused by Covid. That means the example above, of someone who caught Covid which developed into pneumonia, would not be counted as a Covid death.

While it's been made clear from the start of the pandemic that older and sicker people are at much higher risk from the virus, research has found on average people who died of Covid lost 10 years of life.
How did the claims spread?

The misleading "17,000" figure was spread by influential accounts online. On 14 January, former Islamist turned counter-extremism activist Maajid Nawaz tweeted that the figures were evidence of "narrative collapse", implying the larger reported death figures were not genuine.

Then on 20 January, Dr John Campbell, a retired nurse educator who has amassed a huge following on YouTube, released a video describing the figures as a "huge story" and suggested Covid deaths were "much lower than mainstream media seems to have been intimating".
His video has been viewed more than 1.5 million times to date and was shared by Conservative MP David Davis.

On the same day, The Daily Expose, a website that has published a variety of misleading and false claims, posted an article falsely claiming the ONS had: "admit[ted] just 6,000 people died of Covid-19 in England and Wales".

This and related claims began to spread in the following days: to French accounts, a 50,000-member Greek Facebook group, a Swedish group of 20,000 people and a Slovakian political blogger, suggesting the government had distorted death figures or been "forced to tell the truth".

The ONS said: "To exclude individuals with any pre-existing conditions... greatly understates the number of people who died from Covid-19 and who might well still be alive had the pandemic not occurred."

The BBC has contacted Mr Nawaz, Dr Campbell and Mr Davis.
And Dr John Campbell replies here

petej
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The problem Dr John Campbell really has is that David Davis is thick as shit and armed with a twitter account, not that is news to anyone who has followed the progress of brexit.
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Ymx
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What was the essence of the video? It is bloody long and he’s hard to listen to for some reason.

What did he say was for the reason he deemed it “huge news”?
robmatic
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Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:27 pm

So his immune system now needs ivermectin et al to fight his 'bad cold' :lol:
Fairly safe bet that he is actually vaccinated as well.
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tabascoboy
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Back around 1800 when the idea of smallpox vaccination via injection with Cowpox was introduced, many people refused to have it as they seriously believed it would turn you into a cow. Great to think that in many ways and in many people evolutionary progress appears to have stalled.
petej
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Ymx wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:40 pm What was the essence of the video? It is bloody long and he’s hard to listen to for some reason.

What did he say was for the reason he deemed it “huge news”?
He was surprised that deaths deemed only from COVID with no other causes was so low and that this hadn't been reported but careful to discuss the other numbers IE excess deaths, ONS deaths with other causes as well etc.... The reason it hadn't been reported widely is probably because some silly sods would undoubtedly not put it into context and use it to push some agenda which is precisely what happened when he reported it and one of the silly sods was a MP.
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CM11
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Not sure why he wasn't surprised that deaths due to covid alone were so high. As said either here or elsewhere, it's unusual to have just one cause of death for a respiratory illness.
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Lobby
Posts: 1886
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:34 pm

robmatic wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:42 pm
Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:27 pm

So his immune system now needs ivermectin et al to fight his 'bad cold' :lol:
Fairly safe bet that he is actually vaccinated as well.
He claimed last year that he wasn’t going to be vaccinated as he had a deep and debilitating fear of needles, although as others pointed out at the time, this deep-seated fear wasn’t strong enough to prevent him from getting his arms covered in tattoos.
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fishfoodie
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A fig leaf so small; you' d need an electron microscope to catch sight of it.
Spotify: Streaming giant announces plans to clamp down on Covid misinformation

Spotify says that it is working to add advisory warnings to any podcast on its platform that discusses Covid-19.

CEO Daniel Ek unveiled the plans to bar the streaming giant's contributors from sharing "deceptive" information that could pose a threat to public health.

He said that the platform's new advisory warning will redirect users to a data hub of coronavirus facts.

The move follows criticism of its work with Joe Rogan, a US podcast host who has interviewed vaccine-sceptics.
....
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60192957

Pretending this is one of those topics; that there are; "two sides", too; when there's only science, & bullshit !

Will they be adding tags, for other content that decent human beings may find objectionable ?

Racism, Homophobia, Pedophilia etc ? ... I don't f*cking think so !
shaggy
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fishfoodie wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:14 am A fig leaf so small; you' d need an electron microscope to catch sight of it.
Spotify: Streaming giant announces plans to clamp down on Covid misinformation

Spotify says that it is working to add advisory warnings to any podcast on its platform that discusses Covid-19.

CEO Daniel Ek unveiled the plans to bar the streaming giant's contributors from sharing "deceptive" information that could pose a threat to public health.

He said that the platform's new advisory warning will redirect users to a data hub of coronavirus facts.

The move follows criticism of its work with Joe Rogan, a US podcast host who has interviewed vaccine-sceptics.
....
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60192957

Pretending this is one of those topics; that there are; "two sides", too; when there's only science, & bullshit !

Will they be adding tags, for other content that decent human beings may find objectionable ?

Racism, Homophobia, Pedophilia etc ? ... I don't f*cking think so !
Pretty sure the topic of anti vaccination is not covered by a law, hence there is a tricky line to be navigated on curtailing opinion.
Flockwitt
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shaggy wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:57 am
fishfoodie wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:14 am A fig leaf so small; you' d need an electron microscope to catch sight of it.
Spotify: Streaming giant announces plans to clamp down on Covid misinformation

Spotify says that it is working to add advisory warnings to any podcast on its platform that discusses Covid-19.

CEO Daniel Ek unveiled the plans to bar the streaming giant's contributors from sharing "deceptive" information that could pose a threat to public health.

He said that the platform's new advisory warning will redirect users to a data hub of coronavirus facts.

The move follows criticism of its work with Joe Rogan, a US podcast host who has interviewed vaccine-sceptics.
....
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60192957

Pretending this is one of those topics; that there are; "two sides", too; when there's only science, & bullshit !

Will they be adding tags, for other content that decent human beings may find objectionable ?

Racism, Homophobia, Pedophilia etc ? ... I don't f*cking think so !
Pretty sure the topic of anti vaccination is not covered by a law, hence there is a tricky line to be navigated on curtailing opinion.
Yep. Setting oneself up for a major major lawsuit that any number of cockroach lawyers would love to take a tilt at.
robmatic
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Lobby wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:06 am
robmatic wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:42 pm
Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:27 pm

So his immune system now needs ivermectin et al to fight his 'bad cold' :lol:
Fairly safe bet that he is actually vaccinated as well.
He claimed last year that he wasn’t going to be vaccinated as he had a deep and debilitating fear of needles, although as others pointed out at the time, this deep-seated fear wasn’t strong enough to prevent him from getting his arms covered in tattoos.
That was just his usual performative bollocks though.
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Calculon
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Completely crazy, Kiwi journalist and unable to go back home to give birth. She made a fuss and suddenly a MIQ place might now be available

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19- ... BN3F6PJSE/
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Torquemada 1420
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2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.
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CM11
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Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:20 am 2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.
Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.
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Margin__Walker
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CM11 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:48 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:20 am 2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.
Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.
Besides anything else, one look at Spotify's share price over the last week or so shows that the attention has had an impact. Sure, Spotify will ride it out, but it's definitely hit their bottom line.
Biffer
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Margin__Walker wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:54 am
CM11 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:48 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:20 am 2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.
Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.
Besides anything else, one look at Spotify's share price over the last week or so shows that the attention has had an impact. Sure, Spotify will ride it out, but it's definitely hit their bottom line.
There are many, many artists with that many streams / downloads. If others join in, it becomes very serious for Spotify. Most of their paying subscribers are for music.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Torquemada 1420
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CM11 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:48 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:20 am 2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.
Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.
Clearly not but this looked as much like virtue signalling as anything ethical. Could have simply had those discussions behind closed doors i.e. wasn't really just personal.
{EDIT} I see Spotify pay this bloke $100m so no way they are canning him!
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JM2K6
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They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic
Rinkals
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CM11 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:48 am
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:20 am 2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.
Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.
Absolutely.
Rinkals
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JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:48 am They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic
Also, if they can start a trend going and other artists join them (as seems likely), they may end up not being "insignificant".

[Edit - Sorry, point already made by Biffer above]
Slick
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JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:48 am They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic
Also, I think Neil Young has a pretty good record in that regard.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
dpedin
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Slick wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:19 am
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:48 am They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic
Also, I think Neil Young has a pretty good record in that regard.
Didn't both Neil Young and Joni Mitchel have polio in early 1950's before the polio vaccine was invented and suffer from the disease, albeit not as badly as they could have. I suspect their stance on this is driven more by their own painful health experiences and their worry that anti-vaccine messages threaten the life and future of many young people than the money or any 'virtue signalling' motivation. Perhaps they are just aren't worried about losing 10-20% of their income and regard the health issues as more important? Perhaps they are just good guys?
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Guy Smiley
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Some comedy gold here...

https://theshot.net.au/entertainment/pr ... n-podcast/
Australian pranksters The Chaser have left thousands of Spotify users scratching their heads today, after the comedy group briefly took over the top ranking for ‘Joe Rogan’ on the platform, with a fake podcast promoting vaccines. The move comes in the wake of hundreds of musicians and content creators pulling their content from the streaming service in protest against Rogan’s misinformation around vaccines.

“People like Neil Young have been pulling their music to get back at Spotify, which is very noble but probably isn’t going to convince many people to get jabbed,” explained The Chaser’s Charles Firth today. “We figured most of Rogan’s audience is so gullible it’d be easier if we just pretended to be Joe for a day and declare that vaccines are safe. Knowing how quickly his fans fall for most scams, we expect they’ll all be fully vaccinated within the next six to eight hours.”
The team has also purchased the domain name JoeRogan.com.au, which now redirects users to the federal government’s vaccine booking website.

The comedy group have previously faced a number of bans on social media platforms for impersonating celebrities, including briefly being removed from twitter for election interference in 2020, after the team impersonated Donald Trump and instructed the public not to vote for him.
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:11 am Clearly not but this looked as much like virtue signalling as anything ethical. Could have simply had those discussions behind closed doors i.e. wasn't really just personal.
{EDIT} I see Spotify pay this bloke $100m so no way they are canning him!
This is a remarkable take on things Torq... remarkable in that you display no awareness of the history both artists have with regard to exactly this type of stance... that of integrity over profit. I gather it's something of a foreign concept for you.

They've spurred some change too.. with Spotify now releasing clear guidelines about content with specific reference to Covid misinformation while taking down thousands of podcasts containing misleading material.
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Torquemada 1420
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JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:48 am They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic
I'm sure that potential loss of income will see then joining the soup kitchen queues in a matter of days.
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Torquemada 1420
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dpedin wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:52 am Didn't both Neil Young and Joni Mitchel have polio in early 1950's before the polio vaccine was invented and suffer from the disease, albeit not as badly as they could have. I suspect their stance on this is driven more by their own painful health experiences and their worry that anti-vaccine messages threaten the life and future of many young people than the money or any 'virtue signalling' motivation.
No idea about Mitchell but Young definitely had polio and it was before the vaccine existed. However, there really isn't an equivalence here with COVID since polio was a threat to everyone whatever age or health whereas COVID is not. Is this what the heat is all about? I've not bothered looking at the specifics of the beef but your post implies it was in regards young people.
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JM2K6
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Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:37 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:48 am They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic
I'm sure that potential loss of income will see then joining the soup kitchen queues in a matter of days.
Yeah, that's right - if there's one thing rich people tend to be fine with, it's losing a big chunk of income.
dpedin
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Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:43 pm
dpedin wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:52 am Didn't both Neil Young and Joni Mitchel have polio in early 1950's before the polio vaccine was invented and suffer from the disease, albeit not as badly as they could have. I suspect their stance on this is driven more by their own painful health experiences and their worry that anti-vaccine messages threaten the life and future of many young people than the money or any 'virtue signalling' motivation.
No idea about Mitchell but Young definitely had polio and it was before the vaccine existed. However, there really isn't an equivalence here with COVID since polio was a threat to everyone whatever age or health whereas COVID is not. Is this what the heat is all about? I've not bothered looking at the specifics of the beef but your post implies it was in regards young people.
Double checked - both Mitchell and Young contracted polio in Canada in early 1950's prior to development and roll out of the vaccine.

Polio is a virulent viral disease and over 96% of cases are mild, many will be unaware they have the disease, less than 1% have serious disease. The likelihood of paralysis, serious side effects and death with polio, like covid, increases with age. There is no cure for polio.

I referred to young people as they tend to be those less likely to take up covid vaccines - my interpretation. However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.
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Torquemada 1420
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dpedin wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:06 pm However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.
You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.
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Guy Smiley
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Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:34 pm
dpedin wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:06 pm However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.
You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.
FFS Torq...

both of them belong to that generation of musicians who were known for their social activism. It's been almost a mainstay of theirs.

Your cynicsm is just your default setting.
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Torquemada 1420
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Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:43 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:34 pm
dpedin wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:06 pm However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.
You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.
FFS Torq...

both of them belong to that generation of musicians who were known for their social activism. It's been almost a mainstay of theirs.

Your cynicsm is just your default setting.
Yup. I definitely reach for the misanthrope lenses whenever I see a privileged person apparently moral crusading.

This is a balanced article
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... nformation
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JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:48 am They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic
It's dead and gone, like mansplaining and gaslighting. Useless now. Though that one was always abused and in reality had been a feature of politics for decades.
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Guy Smiley
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Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:55 pm
Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:43 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:34 pm
You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.
FFS Torq...

both of them belong to that generation of musicians who were known for their social activism. It's been almost a mainstay of theirs.

Your cynicsm is just your default setting.
Yup. I definitely reach for the misanthrope lenses whenever I see a privileged person apparently moral crusading.

This is a balanced article
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... nformation
I'm struggling to understand your position.

On one hand you profess distrust for Young's motivations in giving up (in his own estimation) 60% of his streaming income for a moral stand, the sort of thing he's done all his career.

On the other hand, you seem to have no problem at all with the stance of the company who are prepared to shell out $100 million to host a controversial podcaster whose presented material has been shown to be misleading at best and generally dishonest.

Pardon my cynicsm here but you strike me as just another corporate favouring conservative who hates hippies, as evidenced in your automatic categorising of Young.
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I have a steaming service (Apple), and I've used Tidal and Spotify in the past, but I use it as "try before you buy" service. You used to be able to go into a record shop and ask the guy (it was always a guy) behind the counter to put on an album and you'd listen to several tracks before deciding if you wanted to buy it or not.

As someone said online earlier, it's not sustainable or ethical to have the entire history of recorded music at your disposal for £10 per month.
This is also why live concert tickets are so expensive now, there is practically no living to be made with the months, sometimes years of work that goes into an album.
Would you work for three grand per million uses of your work as per that stupid Guardian article? What if that material represents months, years of work?
I don't actually believe the return is as much as that, btw.

Buy CDs, vinyl, Bandcamp is best.
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Kiwias
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On a personal note, I am booked for my 3rd shot of Pfizer in 10 days.
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Guy Smiley
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Kiwias wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:11 am On a personal note, I am booked for my 3rd shot of Pfizer in 10 days.
Ah… yes. I got mine last week.

I realise there’s a school of thought that prefers mixing the shots up for a combination of a couple of the complementary vaccines but we’re pretty much limited to Pfizer in NZ (there was the option for AZ but it would involve a consultation) and I’m happy to know I’ve got optimum protection now👍
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Kiwias
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Guy Smiley wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:12 am
Kiwias wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:11 am On a personal note, I am booked for my 3rd shot of Pfizer in 10 days.
Ah… yes. I got mine last week.

I realise there’s a school of thought that prefers mixing the shots up for a combination of a couple of the complementary vaccines but we’re pretty much limited to Pfizer in NZ (there was the option for AZ but it would involve a consultation) and I’m happy to know I’ve got optimum protection now👍
Pfizer is the most common shot here and my GP uses it exclusively. I look forward to having optimum protection.
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