2022/23 Champions/Challenge Cup

[Paddington Bear]

South Africa's team debuting well in the Heineken Cup. The Bulls the only team that may struggle playing Lyon away this weekend. Sharks and Stormers heading for home games in the round of 16.

Lions and Cheetahs not so good in the Challenge Cup.

After the round of 16, all games are in Europe. I think we could struggle if we make it that far.

Nope.

In a report by Ireland publication The42, the EPCR [European Professional Club Rugby] confirmed the three South African teams will be able to earn home round-of-16 and quarter-final games.

If two South African teams are drawn against each other in the final four, the EPCR said that “this position may be reviewed”.

There’s an extent to which this is only fair, but part of the excitement of this competition for fans has always been being able to jump on a plane and watch your team play in another country. There’s been some cracking atmospheres at these knockout games and this kills that off.

[Torquemada 1420]

South Africa's team debuting well in the Heineken Cup. The Bulls the only team that may struggle playing Lyon away this weekend. Sharks and Stormers heading for home games in the round of 16.

Lions and Cheetahs not so good in the Challenge Cup.

LOU are unpredictable but the Sharks have the hardest task at Quins surely?

[OomStruisbaai]

South Africa's team debuting well in the Heineken Cup. The Bulls the only team that may struggle playing Lyon away this weekend. Sharks and Stormers heading for home games in the round of 16.

Lions and Cheetahs not so good in the Challenge Cup.

LOU are unpredictable but the Sharks have the hardest task at Quins surely?

That should put Sards at ease.

[OomStruisbaai]

After the round of 16, all games are in Europe. I think we could struggle if we make it that far.

Nope.

In a report by Ireland publication The42, the EPCR [European Professional Club Rugby] confirmed the three South African teams will be able to earn home round-of-16 and quarter-final games.

If two South African teams are drawn against each other in the final four, the EPCR said that “this position may be reviewed”.

There’s an extent to which this is only fair, but part of the excitement of this competition for fans has always been being able to jump on a plane and watch your team play in another country. There’s been some cracking atmospheres at these knockout games and this kills that off.

Oh well, pretty sure the Saffers will enjoy a knockout at home. Would love to see Sharks vs Stormers in the final.

[SaintK]

Clermonts coaching team must be the worst in Europe to not get more out of that squad.

Not like I've not been pointing that out for 3+ seasons now alongside Quesada (who seemingly has turned Paris around this season). The squad had aged badly and become complacent but guys like Jedrasiak, Iturria and Fisher are symptomatic: should be pressing for intl selection but more often looking like Pro2 players. Penaud somehow bucked the decline and has decided to do a runner.

Jonno Gibbes shown the door by Clermont

[Torquemada 1420]

Clermonts coaching team must be the worst in Europe to not get more out of that squad.

Not like I've not been pointing that out for 3+ seasons now alongside Quesada (who seemingly has turned Paris around this season). The squad had aged badly and become complacent but guys like Jedrasiak, Iturria and Fisher are symptomatic: should be pressing for intl selection but more often looking like Pro2 players. Penaud somehow bucked the decline and has decided to do a runner.

Jonno Gibbes shown the door by Clermont

Cheers. No surprise. Early noise is on Urios coming in.

[Sandstorm]

There’s an extent to which this is only fair, but part of the excitement of this competition for fans has always been being able to jump on a plane and watch your team play in another country.

My choice to be an Expat in Europe of course, but in the first 24 years I lived in the UK, I've seen Stormers play live maybe 4 times at Newlands. I had no chance to see them in NZ or Australia playing Soup.
However in the 12 months, I've seen them in Wales and London already - it's just brilliant!

Not many English fans travel to France or Ireland to see their club teams play ever - if they don't fly to Dublin, then I'm certain that traveling to Pretoria wouldn't ever be on the cards for them either.

Besides we know that the players are enjoying going to SA to play - many club journeyman never get out of Europe or even the UK. Now they have that chance and are relishing it.

[Paddington Bear]

There’s an extent to which this is only fair, but part of the excitement of this competition for fans has always been being able to jump on a plane and watch your team play in another country.

My choice to be an Expat in Europe of course, but in the first 24 years I lived in the UK, I've seen Stormers play live maybe 4 times at Newlands. I had no chance to see them in NZ or Australia playing Soup.
However in the 12 months, I've seen them in Wales and London already - it's just brilliant!

Not many English fans travel to France or Ireland to see their club teams play ever - if they don't fly to Dublin, then I'm certain that traveling to Pretoria wouldn't ever be on the cards for them either.

Besides we know that the players are enjoying going to SA to play - many club journeyman never get out of Europe or even the UK. Now they have that chance and are relishing it.

Your second point is absolutely not true, evidenced by Quins yesterday. I’m talking longer term and I’ve been one of 500+ Sarries fans at places such as Narbonne, Biarritz, Glasgow, and probably a few others that escape me.

[OomStruisbaai]

There’s an extent to which this is only fair, but part of the excitement of this competition for fans has always been being able to jump on a plane and watch your team play in another country.

My choice to be an Expat in Europe of course, but in the first 24 years I lived in the UK, I've seen Stormers play live maybe 4 times at Newlands. I had no chance to see them in NZ or Australia playing Soup.
However in the 12 months, I've seen them in Wales and London already - it's just brilliant!

Not many English fans travel to France or Ireland to see their club teams play ever - if they don't fly to Dublin, then I'm certain that traveling to Pretoria wouldn't ever be on the cards for them either.

Besides we know that the players are enjoying going to SA to play - many club journeyman never get out of Europe or even the UK. Now they have that chance and are relishing it.

Your second point is absolutely not true, evidenced by Quins yesterday. I’m talking longer term and I’ve been one of 500+ Sarries fans at places such as Narbonne, Biarritz, Glasgow, and probably a few others that escape me.

I think you are on about nothing.Rugby don't have borders.

I saw a lot of Irish, Scottish and England fans in SA stadiums when their teams play here.

Yesterday the Stormers had a lot of support.

[Paddington Bear]

My choice to be an Expat in Europe of course, but in the first 24 years I lived in the UK, I've seen Stormers play live maybe 4 times at Newlands. I had no chance to see them in NZ or Australia playing Soup.
However in the 12 months, I've seen them in Wales and London already - it's just brilliant!

Not many English fans travel to France or Ireland to see their club teams play ever - if they don't fly to Dublin, then I'm certain that traveling to Pretoria wouldn't ever be on the cards for them either.

Besides we know that the players are enjoying going to SA to play - many club journeyman never get out of Europe or even the UK. Now they have that chance and are relishing it.

Your second point is absolutely not true, evidenced by Quins yesterday. I’m talking longer term and I’ve been one of 500+ Sarries fans at places such as Narbonne, Biarritz, Glasgow, and probably a few others that escape me.

I think you are on about nothing.Rugby don't have borders.

I saw a lot of Irish, Scottish and England fans in SA stadiums when their teams play here.

Yesterday the Stormers had a lot of support.

Yes I wonder how the Stormers had a lot of support for a game in West London…

[Torquemada 1420]

Yes I wonder how the Stormers had a lot of support for a game in West London…

Queues to get beers in most pubs and nobody serving in MuckDonalds.

[Tichtheid]

Castres were awful yesterday. They look very unfit. A French mate of mine really doesn't like them, calls them anti-rugby.

If Edinburgh had been playing the sort of rugby they're capable of it would have been in the 50s at least, as it is Edinburgh have been really struggling over the last couple of months, missing the entire back three first choice and two of the seconds plus two centres doesn't help.

I hope we can get some players back for the Saracens game on Sunday, there are several permutations but we can still make a home play off spot if we get a very good win, it's not that likely against one of the strongest teams in Europe and a team dominating the Prem, but you never know

[Paddington Bear]

Yes I wonder how the Stormers had a lot of support for a game in West London…

ueues to get beers in most pubs and nobody serving in MuckDonalds.

Usage of the phrase ‘when we’ was at unprecedented levels in the Brentford area yesterday…

[Sandstorm]

Yes I wonder how the Stormers had a lot of support for a game in West London…

ueues to get beers in most pubs and nobody serving in MuckDonalds.

Usage of the phrase ‘when we’ was at unprecedented levels in the Brentford area yesterday…

Nah, that's Rhodesians and they all support the Sharks. They don't go to live games either.

[_Os_]

Not sure about SA sides being able to get home matches in the knock outs, I'm going to go with it being a bad move other than maybe in the round of 16 to give us a fighting chance. Travel around Europe is very cheap (no idea post-Brexit, but probably a bit less cheap), so if a team makes the knock outs a fan can follow their team on a whim. Anyone that wants to go to SA is going to want to plan that ahead as a full winter (in the NH) holiday, and they will not get the full value if they go for a weekend. Fucking no one is going to SA for a single weekend in the knock outs on a whim, probably some will for the pool matches as part of a pre-planned holiday though.

One of the problems with Super Rugby is/was there's no travelling support because it was too expensive. It's also a cultural thing, in SA provincial rugby travelling support doesn't happen, because it's not like there's a league of 20 teams and constant churn of those teams with different venues appearing and disappearing, all these venues a short rail journey from eachother. A Bulls fan wanting to watch his team against the Stormers in CT faces a big distance and will have to make an entire weekend of it, so it doesn't happen much.

Still amazed we're in these competitions, I think a wiser move would be to not push our luck too far.

[OomStruisbaai]

Not sure about SA sides being able to get home matches in the knock outs, I'm going to go with it being a bad move other than maybe in the round of 16 to give us a fighting chance. Travel around Europe is very cheap (no idea post-Brexit, but probably a bit less cheap), so if a team makes the knock outs a fan can follow their team on a whim. Anyone that wants to go to SA is going to want to plan that ahead as a full winter (in the NH) holiday, and they will not get the full value if they go for a weekend. Fucking no one is going to SA for a single weekend in the knock outs on a whim, probably some will for the pool matches as part of a pre-planned holiday though.

One of the problems with Super Rugby is/was there's no travelling support because it was too expensive. It's also a cultural thing, in SA provincial rugby travelling support doesn't happen, because it's not like there's a league of 20 teams and constant churn of those teams with different venues appearing and disappearing, all these venues a short rail journey from eachother. A Bulls fan wanting to watch his team against the Stormers in CT faces a big distance and will have to make an entire weekend of it, so it doesn't happen much.

Still amazed we're in these competitions, I think a wiser move would be to not push our luck too far.

Komaan Ox, surely you 'd like us to bliksem them.

[Sandstorm]

Not sure about SA sides being able to get home matches in the knock outs, I'm going to go with it being a bad move other than maybe in the round of 16 to give us a fighting chance. Travel around Europe is very cheap (no idea post-Brexit, but probably a bit less cheap), so if a team makes the knock outs a fan can follow their team on a whim. Anyone that wants to go to SA is going to want to plan that ahead as a full winter (in the NH) holiday, and they will not get the full value if they go for a weekend. Fucking no one is going to SA for a single weekend in the knock outs on a whim, probably some will for the pool matches as part of a pre-planned holiday though.

One of the problems with Super Rugby is/was there's no travelling support because it was too expensive. It's also a cultural thing, in SA provincial rugby travelling support doesn't happen, because it's not like there's a league of 20 teams and constant churn of those teams with different venues appearing and disappearing, all these venues a short rail journey from eachother. A Bulls fan wanting to watch his team against the Stormers in CT faces a big distance and will have to make an entire weekend of it, so it doesn't happen much.

Still amazed we're in these competitions, I think a wiser move would be to not push our luck too far.

It’s not about the fans in the stadiums, it’s about the TV Monies.

[OomStruisbaai]

Not sure about SA sides being able to get home matches in the knock outs, I'm going to go with it being a bad move other than maybe in the round of 16 to give us a fighting chance. Travel around Europe is very cheap (no idea post-Brexit, but probably a bit less cheap), so if a team makes the knock outs a fan can follow their team on a whim. Anyone that wants to go to SA is going to want to plan that ahead as a full winter (in the NH) holiday, and they will not get the full value if they go for a weekend. Fucking no one is going to SA for a single weekend in the knock outs on a whim, probably some will for the pool matches as part of a pre-planned holiday though.

One of the problems with Super Rugby is/was there's no travelling support because it was too expensive. It's also a cultural thing, in SA provincial rugby travelling support doesn't happen, because it's not like there's a league of 20 teams and constant churn of those teams with different venues appearing and disappearing, all these venues a short rail journey from eachother. A Bulls fan wanting to watch his team against the Stormers in CT faces a big distance and will have to make an entire weekend of it, so it doesn't happen much.

Still amazed we're in these competitions, I think a wiser move would be to not push our luck too far.

It’s not about the fans in the stadiums, it’s about the TV Monies.

We get zero until 2025. Our price to play in the competitions

[Chilli]

South Africa's team debuting well in the Heineken Cup. The Bulls the only team that may struggle playing Lyon away this weekend. Sharks and Stormers heading for home games in the round of 16.

Lions and Cheetahs not so good in the Challenge Cup.

Let's be honest. The quality of the sides in the challenge cup is seriously sub par. This is when I can say that I miss Superrugby.

It's no fun watching a team get beaten so soundly every game. I switch off half time in most cases

And beating the same teams home and away is not pleasant. Why not play against all the sides rather.

Did you watch the 2 games involving the SA teams?

Lions lost by 10, but played some good rugby.
Cheetahs lost by 3 in the last few moments, also played some good rugby.

[OomStruisbaai]

South Africa's team debuting well in the Heineken Cup. The Bulls the only team that may struggle playing Lyon away this weekend. Sharks and Stormers heading for home games in the round of 16.

Lions and Cheetahs not so good in the Challenge Cup.

Let's be honest. The quality of the sides in the challenge cup is seriously sub par. This is when I can say that I miss Superrugby.

It's no fun watching a team get beaten so soundly every game. I switch off half time in most cases

And beating the same teams home and away is not pleasant. Why not play against all the sides rather.

Did you watch the 2 games involving the SA teams?

Lions lost by 10, but played some good rugby.
Cheetahs lost by 3 in the last few moments, also played some good rugby.

Boet he don't know the difference between HC and Challenge Cup.

[Torquemada 1420]

Castres were awful yesterday. They look very unfit. A French mate of mine really doesn't like them, calls them anti-rugby.

Mehhh. There is a lot of anti-Castres sentiment in France because they won the 17-18 season. It's basically motivated in jealousy because a tiny club with small resource punches above its weight: which CO always does. I hear it all the time:
- "they don't try in Europe so their players are rested"
- "they throw some away games to rest players"
- "they don't have intls so aren't affected by the 6N and RWCs"

It's true they tend to play a very gritty style of rugby (although I've seen them play some real flair stuff occasionally) and I guess all of these aspects of criticism are true to the extent that's how they max their resources. They are not like MH who really are rugby cancer when they have a choice. Anyway, Castres don't make the rugby laws and the game is meant to be one for all types.

[Tichtheid]

Castres were awful yesterday. They look very unfit. A French mate of mine really doesn't like them, calls them anti-rugby.

Mehhh. There is a lot of anti-Castres sentiment in France because they won the 17-18 season. It's basically motivated in jealousy because a tiny club with small resource punches above its weight: which CO always does. I hear it all the time:
- "they don't try in Europe so their players are rested"
- "they throw some away games to rest players"
- "they don't have intls so aren't affected by the 6N and RWCs"

It's true they tend to play a very gritty style of rugby (although I've seen them play some real flair stuff occasionally) and I guess all of these aspects of criticism are true to the extent that's how they max their resources. They are not like MH who really are rugby cancer when they have a choice. Anyway, Castres don't make the rugby laws and the game is meant to be one for all types.

Maybe, but that isn't my friend's motivation for disliking them, it's purely on the boring style of rugby, if anything he's more likely to be on the side of the under dog.

Castres were really blowing after half an hour, I expected more from them to be honest.

[Torquemada 1420]

Maybe, but that isn't my friend's motivation for disliking them, it's purely on the boring style of rugby, if anything he's more likely to be on the side of the under dog.

Castres were really blowing after half an hour, I expected more from them to be honest.

He probably shouldn't watch T14 at all then!

[Brazil]

Quins robbed.

Working class Manc in London posh-boy transformation horror !

There are many working class pockets of Richmond, Whitton and St Margaret's.

[OomStruisbaai]

[OomStruisbaai]

[JM2K6]

Jesus Christ

[OomStruisbaai]

Boet no need to swear like that. Let's talk after saturday. Should be a cracker and no excuses like B teams like the French.

[OomStruisbaai]

European Cup

Nation Winners—Runners-up
France -10……….16
England-10———5
Ireland—7———-5

Wales/Scotland?

[Jim Lahey]

European Cup

Nation Winners—Runners-up
France -10……….16
England-10———5
Ireland—7———-5

Wales/Scotland?

[SaintK]

European Cup

Nation Winners—Runners-up
France -10……….16
England-10———5
Ireland—7———-5

Wales/Scotland?

Quite

[OomStruisbaai]

Weekend Heineken Champions Cup fixtures SA time
Lyon v Vodacom Bulls (Friday, 22.00)
Leicester v Ospreys (Friday, 22.00)

Northampton v La Rochelle (Saturday, 15.00)
Harlequins v Cell C Sharks (Saturday, 15.00)
Bordeaux-Begles v Gloucester (Saturday, 17.15)
Leinster v Racing 92 (Saturday, 17.15)
Exeter Chiefs v Castres (Saturday, 19.30)
DHL Stormers v ASM Clermont-Auvergne (Saturday, 19.30)
Ulster v Sale (Saturday, 22.00)
Montpellier v London Irish (Saturday, 22.00)

Toulouse v Munster (Sunday, 17.15)
Edinburgh v Saracens (Sunday, 19.30)

[Sards]

Jesus Christ

Pretty scary right. Imagine preparing for those forwards

[OomStruisbaai]

Lyon v Bulls
(Matmut Stadium de Gerland, Lyon – Kick-off: 21.00; 22.00 SA time; 20.00 GMT)
Prediction
@rugby365com: Bulls by 11 points.

Teams:

Lyon: 15 Toby Arnold, 14 Josua Tuisova, 13 Josiah Maraku, 12 Thibaut Regard, 11 Ethan Dumortier, 10 Leo Berdeu, 9 Jean-Marc Doussain, 8 Jordan Taufua (captain), 7 Patrick Sobela, 6 Dylan Cretin, 5 Romain Taofifenua, 4 Felix Lambey, 3 Demba Bamba, 2 Guillaume Marchand, 1 Sébastien Taofifenua.
Replacements: 16 Liam Coltman, 17 Hamza Kaabèche, 18 Paulo Tafili, 19 Temo Mayanavanua, 20 Theo William, 21 Mickael Guillard, 22 Liam Rimet, 23 Kyle Godwin.

Bulls: 15 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 14 Canan Moodie, 13 Wandisile Simelane, 12 Cornal Hendricks, 11 David Kriel, 10 Johan Goosen, 9 Embrose Papier, 8 Nizaam Carr (captain), 7 Cyle Brink, 6 Marco van Staden, 5 Janko Swanepoel, 4 Ruan Vermaak, 3 Francois Klopper, 2 Bismarck Du Plessis, 1 Simphiwe Matanzima.
Replacements: 16 Johann Grobbelaar, 17 Gerard Steenekamp, 18 Mornay Smith, 19 Ruan Nortje, 20 Elrigh Louw, 21 Zak Burger, 22 Chris Smith, 23 Lionel Mapoe.

Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Jackson (England) & Wayne Falla (England)
TMO: Stuart Terheege (England)

[OomStruisbaai]

Leicester Tigers v Ospreys
(Welford Road, Leicester – Kick-off: 20.00; 20.00 GMT)
Prediction
@rugby365com: Leicester by 14 points.

Teams:

Leicester Tigers: 15 Freddie Steward, 14 Harry Potter, 13 Matt Scott, 12 Dan Kelly, 11 Harry Simmons, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Jack van Poortvliet, 8 Olly Cracknell, 7 Tommy Reffell, 6 Hanro Liebenberg (c), 5 Cameron Henderson, 4 Ollie Chessum, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Charlie Clare, 1 James Whitcombe.
Replacements: 16 Julián Montoya, 17 Dan Richardson, 18 Will Hurd, 19 Harry Wells, 20 Sean Jansen, 21 Ben Youngs, 22 Jimmy Gopperth, 23 Charlie Atkinson.

Ospreys: 15 Cai Evans, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Michael Collins, 12 Joe Hawkins, 11 Keelan Giles, 10 Owen Williams, 9 Reuben Morgan-Williams, 8 Jac Morgan, 7 Justin Tipuric (captain), 6 Rhys Davies, 5 Alun Wyn Jones, 4 Adam Beard, 3 Tom Botha, 2 Dewi Lake, 1 Nicky Smith
Replacements: 16 Scott Baldwin, 17 Gareth Thomas, 18 Rhys Henry, 19 Huw Sutton, 20 Morgan Morris, 21 Matthew Aubrey, 22 Keiran Williams, 23 George North.

Referee: Tual Trainini (France)
Assistant Referees: Adrien Descottes (France), Christophe Bultet (France)
TMO: Thomas Charabas (France)

[OomStruisbaai]

Stormers — 15 Damian Willemse, 14 Suleiman Hartzenberg, 13 Ruhan Nel, 12 Dan du Plessis, 11 Angelo Davids, 10 Kade Wolhuter, 9 Stefan Ungerer, 8 Hacjivah Dayimani, 7 Willie Engelbrecht, 6 Deon Fourie, 5 Marvin Orie, 4 Connor Evans, 3 Neethling Fouche, 2 Joseph Dweba, 1 Steven Kitshoff (captain).
Replacements: 16 JJ Kotze, 17 Ali Vermaak, 18 Brok Harris, 19 Ben-Jason Dixon, 20 Evan Roos, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Jean-Luc du Plessis, 23 Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu.

[PCPhil]

As an English type person I want a Welsh team to go all the way

it’s the only way I can get to watch the matches live on TV

[Sards]

Cell C Sharks

Ox Nche
Kerron van Vuuren
Thomas du Toit
Eben Etzebeth
Gerbrandt Grobler
Siya Kolisi (c)
Vincent Tshituka
Phepsi Buthelezi
Jaden Hendrikse
Curwin Bosch
Thaakir Abrahams
Ben Tapuai
Lukhanyo Am
Marnus Potgieter
Aphelele Fassi
Replacements

Dan Jooste
Ntuthuko Mchunu
Carlü Sadie
Hyron Andrews
Sikhumbuzo Notshe
Grant Williams
Lionel Cronje
Francois Venter

[Sards]

Cell C Sharks

Ox Nche
Kerron van Vuuren
Thomas du Toit
Eben Etzebeth
Gerbrandt Grobler
Siya Kolisi (c)
Vincent Tshituka
Phepsi Buthelezi
Jaden Hendrikse
Curwin Bosch
Thaakir Abrahams
Ben Tapuai
Lukhanyo Am
Marnus Potgieter
Aphelele Fassi
Replacements

Dan Jooste
Ntuthuko Mchunu
Carlü Sadie
Hyron Andrews
Sikhumbuzo Notshe
Grant Williams
Lionel Cronje
Francois Venter

No RJVR
Ben Tapuai has been fantastic. Has really grown on me.
Gerbrandt feeds off Eben . He has been very strong. It's great to see such enforcer locks combining. I remember when handyman used to laugh at our locks

[JM2K6]

Cell C Sharks

Ox Nche
Kerron van Vuuren
Thomas du Toit
Eben Etzebeth
Gerbrandt Grobler
Siya Kolisi (c)
Vincent Tshituka
Phepsi Buthelezi
Jaden Hendrikse
Curwin Bosch
Thaakir Abrahams
Ben Tapuai
Lukhanyo Am
Marnus Potgieter
Aphelele Fassi
Replacements

Dan Jooste
Ntuthuko Mchunu
Carlü Sadie
Hyron Andrews
Sikhumbuzo Notshe
Grant Williams
Lionel Cronje
Francois Venter

No RJVR
Ben Tapuai has been fantastic. Has really grown on me.
Gerbrandt feeds off Eben . He has been very strong. It's great to see such enforcer locks combining. I remember when handyman used to laugh at our locks

Surprised by Tapuai. He was very limited when he was at Quins - quite a tough little player but not particularly skilled, not quick, and lacked vision.