NPR

C69 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:10 pm

SaintK wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:29 pm

ASMO wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:50 pm Tested positive myself yesterday, basically a mild cold nothing more, might have been worse had it not been for the vaccines though.

Fingers crossed for you.
I've just tested positive 9 days after my original positive test and still have head cold symptoms

I am still positive after my first positive test on Sunday.
Still have cold symptoms. I had tested negative for 6 days with symptoms before my first positive result.
I can apparently go back to work with a risk assessment after 10 days even if I am still positive and don't deal with vulnerable of immunocompromised patients.

Seriously wtaf?

With 2 bright red lines on a lat flow, you are allowed to head back in???

Ymx wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:12 pm

C69 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:10 pm

SaintK wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:29 pm
Fingers crossed for you.
I've just tested positive 9 days after my original positive test and still have head cold symptoms

I am still positive after my first positive test on Sunday.
Still have cold symptoms. I had tested negative for 6 days with symptoms before my first positive result.
I can apparently go back to work with a risk assessment after 10 days even if I am still positive and don't deal with vulnerable of immunocompromised patients.

Seriously wtaf?

With 2 bright red lines on a lat flow, you are allowed to head back in???

Yip guidance is that exactly that as lomg as no symptoms or temp.
And the caveats above. I work in ICU and specifically with ventilation.

No way am I going back in untill I am happy I am not infectious.

EnergiseR2 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:30 pm Got the Covids It's grand you benders

Probably a little bump in covid after yesterday’s celebrations, and hang overs I’m sure.

Ymx wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:04 pm

dpedin wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:18 am

Rinkals wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:53 am

It's a tricky one.

Anecdotally, at least, the severity of the disease seems to be falling away and public support for lockdown and other measures is declining with it.

I'm largely with you in that I don't want to get it and I don't want to pass it on and I don't want it to suddenly get out of hand and overwhelm hospitals and mortuaries.

However, there is a huge body of opinion that says that we have been over cautious and that any further lockdowns risk destroying jobs, livelihoods and mental health.

If you have a lockdown and the impact of further waves is not as serious, would people acknowledge that any amelioration was the product of lockdown or would they say that there was little risk in the first place? I'm inclined to think that there would be a lot of people thinking the latter (if my family members and others I am in contact with are anything to go by).

On the other hand, if measures are relaxed and the pandemic strikes again, it won't be much fun saying "I told you so".

No one is talking about having another lock down! It is just about taking sensible small scale PH mitigations to try and slow down the community transmission of covid, much as we do with other highly infectious diseases. Wearing a mask, distancing where possible, opening windows and ensuring good ventilation are all simple and zero cost ways of doing this. It is also about making sure the messaging is right and people are persuaded to do the right thing if they think they have covid. The hysterical response to these simple measures is beyond me and the false equivalence with these being a 'lock down' or even 'restrictions' is appalling.

There may be 'opinion' that we have been over cautious but very little evidence that supports this. The whole point of taking sensible, small scale PH mitigations now is to avoid rapid increases in cases leading to rapid increases in hospitalisations which overwhelm the NHS and ultimately having to lock down to protect the NHS. Unfortunately hospitalisations are currently trending upwards and are now over 14,000 in the UK - up about 30% from the previous week. Whilst they may be hospitalised because of or with covid doesn't make much difference within the NHS - they still need to have all the infection control measures, impact on bed numbers and the resource implications this implies.

There is no reason why future variants of covid will be milder, less harmful nor that current vaccines will offer the same level of protections, although I seriously hope they will. That's why I used flu as an example earlier - every so often we get a 'bad flu season' as a new flu strain hits us. Flu strains can be milder but can also become more severe and that is why we have annual flu vaccinations that are designed to combat that variant. Covid will probably be the same except a more harmful variant that escapes the vaccines will be very very dangerous indeed.

Taking simple measures now and getting them to become the 'norm' will save a lot of heartache going forward, including the reduction in numbers of long covid.

You seriously are out of touch. Your proposal completely lacks any end game.

You seem desperate to rebrand restrictions as mitigations. But you are in fact suggesting legal restrictions. Unless you are just saying to encourage people rather than make it a legal requirement?? Knock your socks off, walk the streets, wear a sign.

The whole premise to do it now, is all based on future what ifs.

If a new strain does happen and if and when hospitalisations become unmanageable then yes, otherwise of course it’s a no!

But you go ahead, wear your mask, open your windows, … but don’t expect others to.

You and your family will get it, and probably multiple times. You may have had it.

I think he's on the money and it's you that are out of touch. Question mark over the virus mutation direction from here in for me but apart from that, some sensible mitigation measures aren't silly...

over the 2 years of Covid so far, there's been a massive fall off in flu cases in most countries. Why? Because the moves made to push the general population into observing basic public hygiene blocked transmission. There are localised reports of a similar reduction in other infectious transmissions dropping from the mining industry I worked in in Oz where captive populations stay in purpose built camps for their work rotation, living in close quarters.

People are bored with lockdown type restrictions and there's a lot of frustration expressed about mandates and all the rest. It's understandable that there's a backlash... but we're not out of the woods yet by a long way and there's a fair chance we'll see something similar erupt again. Our globalised lifestyles almost guarantee it.

I reckon we'll see a lot of governments put effort into educating and maintaining stronger public hygiene practises from now on and they'll mirror aspects of the regimes used to date with Covid.

Guy, you’re living under the NZ experience, which is behind the rest of the world in terms of the endemic (and brilliantly behind on deaths of course), and more subject to state controlled media. So I don’t know the typical kiwi reflects the global view very well.

My views have evolved admittedly.

I don’t think mandating mask wearing is ever going to be the way forward. And especially where there is zero end game. Except in the temporary conditions I stated above.

There has been less flu, and cold because of it, yes of course. And consequently, it’s probably going to hammer many immune systems when they do start getting exposed to it again. Like the super cold we had here in the UK last year. It’s the way we are built. Immunological memory reduces severity and keeps us alive.

NZ has state controlled media?

And you're telling others THEY'RE out of touch?

How patronising.... the average Kiwi is out of touch with the global experience. You're actually saying that here, on an internet forum where we all discuss various issues from all over the joint with varying levels of experience and expertise.

Ha ha, sorry, couldn’t help myself

The Public Interest Journalism Fund. (It does sound a bit like a China thing)

“Team of $55million”

Etc…

But on COVID, you are living what much of the rest of the world did a couple of months back. Still wearing masks, and contacts isolating. Omicron still burning at full force, and worrying watching hospitalisations.

That’s not where we are now in the UK.

Bro, you live under Murdoch. We don't.

Actually, the media over here I found shockingly destructive when I first arrived.

Tearing the country apart, no national pride. Dying for headlines. Ripping in to the government, always. Creating division and anger.

And then I see the NZ press. Always towing the line, with happy sheeple reading how great their country is. Being paid by the government to tow the line, …

So I think there probably is a balance.

Yeah... nah.

I lived with Murdoch in Oz for years. I've been 'back home' for 3 1/2 years but 2 of those were spent working back there including a year stuck with the border closure.

Years of 'debate' here and PR have given me something of a handle on the way mainstream, commercial media operates. Briefly, NZ media is heavily slanted to clickbait with serious, informed commentary hard to find. Most of it is shitty, gossip style sensationalism. It's a long, long way from toeing any party line although there's been a recent noticeable shift towards favourable reporting of the opposition after a change of leadership. The loudest and most influential voices in this country are conservative leaning shockers like Mike Hosking who openly hates Labour. Then there's the rest who just follow trends.

Suggesting the national media act as some sort of mouthpiece, supporting the governing Labour party is laughably out of touch.

subject to state controlled media.

WTF??? Is this just wishful thinking on your part?

Enzedder wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:40 am

subject to state controlled media.

WTF??? Is this just wishful thinking on your part?

No, and explained above. It was in reference to the “Public Interest Journalism Fund”, which the government pays for media to tow the line on their covid messaging.

Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:00 pm NZ has state controlled media?

And you're telling others THEY'RE out of touch?

How patronising.... the average Kiwi is out of touch with the global experience. You're actually saying that here, on an internet forum where we all discuss various issues from all over the joint with varying levels of experience and expertise.

YMX tends to be very susceptible to whatever the latest right wing talking point is re covid and the various mitigations. He'll have it explained to him, take it on board and then a few months later repeat it again anyway.

Case in point is the "we're all going to catch it anyway" discussion.

Uncle fester wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:01 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:00 pm NZ has state controlled media?

And you're telling others THEY'RE out of touch?

How patronising.... the average Kiwi is out of touch with the global experience. You're actually saying that here, on an internet forum where we all discuss various issues from all over the joint with varying levels of experience and expertise.

YMX tends to be very susceptible to whatever the latest right wing talking point is re covid and the various mitigations. He'll have it explained to him, take it on board and then a few months later repeat it again anyway.

Case in point is the "we're all going to catch it anyway" discussion.

Cheeky bastard.

Memory not what it used to be admittedly…

Fwiw I was wearing a mask up to just a few weeks back, and during all of last year at the points when they were no longer compulsory. Fully jabbed. I’m no anti vax nutter. But you go on and sling me in there if you want. Taint it by throwing out words right wing. Call me a Nazi for good measure.

My son has just tested positive again 6 weeks after the last test when he had it.

Someone just told me that we should ignore positive tests for 90 days after the first infection which seems a bit mad. Anyone know?

Slick wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:36 am My son has just tested positive again 6 weeks after the last test when he had it.

Someone just told me that we should ignore positive tests for 90 days after the first infection which seems a bit mad. Anyone know?

I think that only applies to PCR tests. If lat flow is positive within 90 days later, then that will be a re infection.

My daughter got it twice in such a short period, around 5 weeks. The second time my wife caught it off her. Whereas I did after the first time.

Hopefully C69 is about and can answer for certain.

Ymx wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:22 am

Slick wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:36 am My son has just tested positive again 6 weeks after the last test when he had it.

Someone just told me that we should ignore positive tests for 90 days after the first infection which seems a bit mad. Anyone know?

I think that only applies to PCR tests. If lat flow is positive within 90 days later, then that will be a re infection.

My daughter got it twice in such a short period, around 5 weeks. The second time my wife caught it off her. Whereas I did after the first time.

Hopefully C69 is about and can answer for certain.

ahh OK, makes a bit more sense. Just spoke with NHS Scotland and they say we should get him a PCR then it will be tested for which variant it is. Following this they send it to the schools team (or something) who then, depending on the variant, let him go back or not. That doesn't make much sense to me so trying to get more info.

For Democracy to work, people need to be properly informed.

To be properly informed, people need to be able to trust their news sources.

In the past, that was the stock in trade of the news media. Trustworthiness. If an error was made, a retraction, apology and a correction was published as the outlet had a reputation to protect.

These days, nobody cares.

Rupert Murdoch with the Sun and later Fox News led the way in using news outlets to push agendas to the point where it is now expected that they publish untruths; the media Barron's very own Pravda spouting political propaganda.

Politicians such as Trump accused the Main Stream Media of 'Fake News' and, in doing so, weakened trust in the news sources even further.

Add to this the Internet where any teenager in his mom's basement in Montenegro the most fanciful conspiracies as fact, and, no matter how deranged your opinions might be, you can always find something that will agree with you and confirm them.

Democracy is in very real danger.

Ymx wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:40 pm Guy, you’re living under the NZ experience, which is behind the rest of the world in terms of the endemic (and brilliantly behind on deaths of course), and more subject to state controlled media. So I don’t know the typical kiwi reflects the global view very well.

My views have evolved admittedly.

I don’t think mandating mask wearing is ever going to be the way forward. And especially where there is zero end game. Except in the temporary conditions I stated above.

There has been less flu, and cold because of it, yes of course. And consequently, it’s probably going to hammer many immune systems when they do start getting exposed to it again. Like the super cold we had here in the UK last year. It’s the way we are built. Immunological memory reduces severity and keeps us alive.

I would rather have been in NZ which has had about 1% of the UK deaths, fewer days with the population locked down than the UK and an economy which has performed at least as good if not better than the UK. They now have a higher vaccination rate than the UK. NZ has no where near the waiting times nor backlogs in its healthcare system compared to the NHS in the UK. Sounds to me NZ did rather well?

The point of wearing masks, distancing where possible, opening windows and ensuring good ventilation, etc when we have a highly infectious air borne virus circulating is to try and reduce community transmission - simples! The end game is to try and avoid people contracting covid and therefore reduce pressure on the NHS (15,000 covid hospitalisations at the moment means the NHS can't possibly operate normally) and at the same time buy time so we can continue to vaccinate the pop and improve the vaccines and other treatments on offer. I am confident that the scientific community will do both relatively quickly given how fast they were able to develop the initial vaccines. I am in no doubt from what I hear that we will have even more effective vaccines and treatments by the end of this year. This is the end game.

The scientists will of course continue to develop new improved vaccines and treatments if we don't follow the simple PH mitigations and just give up on trying to control community transmission. We will reach the same end point but the difference will be how we get there - letting it run loose means we will continue to have far more cases, more hospitalisations and more deaths and a real risk of further lock downs. I don't want lock downs! This seems to be the UK approach, which so far has been one of the worst performing in terms of deaths and economics. Letting a novel and deadly virus with as yet not fully understood long term implications run unchecked in a population is just plain stupid. Not taking even the simplest of PH mitigations when we have very high levels of cases and hospitalisations is just plain stupid.

Hadn’t looked for a while.

But this is how we are faring on the crucial mechanical ventilation beds (storm has passed - we are virtually at lockdown levels)





And here is just totals of all stayers



Small fraction of the 21 peak.

Not really related to the above, but a friend from NZ just sent this. I’m sure it’s an old one, but amusing

UK Covid case numbers still rising - Monday stats for last three weeks are:

7th March - 107k
14th March - 177k
21st March - 203k

ONS survey from 18th reckon 1:14 in Scotland, 1:20 in England, 1:25 in Wales and 1:14 in NI are currently infected. Many will be reinfections, indeed many folk who had omicron BA.1 are now being infected with BA.2.

Hospitalisations up from 11,500 to 15,500 over same period. Remember these lag behind case numbers. ICU numbers only up marginally but again these lag behind. NHS now really stretched and seeing a big increase in reduction in planned/elective business now which is only adding to the already huge backlogs and waiting times. As before we are seeing significant staff absence due to omicron, schools sending kids home etc.

Deaths slowly rising - 7 day average up from 103 to 115 (to March 18th) but again these lag behind case numbers.

Looks like Omicron BA.2 really taking a hold. Not sure covid has gone away or has become milder but vaccination seems to be doing a lot of the heavy lifting thankfully. Still a bit worried about emerging info on Deltacron, not sure if this presents a real risk or not. Freedom Day 2 not going well really is it?

Oh ... and let's not forget long covid and rising case numbers of post infection cardiac, PE, strokes, diabetes, etc.

Wear a mask, keep distance if possible, open the windows, ventilate spaces, etc. Keep safe.

EnergiseR2 wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:16 pm

Ymx wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:58 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:30 pm Got the Covids It's grand you benders

Probably a little bump in covid after yesterday’s celebrations, and hang overs I’m sure.

It's actually a bit of a weird dose. Not awful or anything just weird. Very foggy heady, dodgy belly, sickly. Would like a straight up cold to be honest

I've been feeling properly shit for 5 days now

I think I must be paranoid. Was the only one wearing a mask in Tesco last night. I felt a bit like someone about to rob the place.

My brother and his wife had Covid a few weeks back. Both boostered... both said it was like bad flu. Stuck in bed for a few days... testing negative at that point. Only tested positive after the worst had passed... and they were up and about again. Seems to be common that delayed positive test?

Grandpa wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:33 am I think I must be paranoid. Was the only one wearing a mask in Tesco last night. I felt a bit like someone about to rob the place.

My brother and his wife had Covid a few weeks back. Both boostered... both said it was like bad flu. Stuck in bed for a few days... testing negative at that point. Only tested positive after the worst had passed... and they were up and about again. Seems to be common that delayed positive test?

Yeah, I felt pretty dreadful on Thursday and Friday before actually testing positive on Saturday

Slick wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:37 am

Grandpa wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:33 am I think I must be paranoid. Was the only one wearing a mask in Tesco last night. I felt a bit like someone about to rob the place.

My brother and his wife had Covid a few weeks back. Both boostered... both said it was like bad flu. Stuck in bed for a few days... testing negative at that point. Only tested positive after the worst had passed... and they were up and about again. Seems to be common that delayed positive test?

Yeah, I felt pretty dreadful on Thursday and Friday before actually testing positive on Saturday

I'll remember that if I get ill.. wait a few days before testing...

It's finally got me. Sore throat and a bit tired since Sunday which I had assumed was just a 6 Nations hangover...

ZOE study finds top 5 omicron (bit like Delta) symptoms are runny nose, headache, fatigue (mild to severe), sneezing and sore throat - the symptoms mentioned above on posts seem to fall in line?

Grandpa wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:12 pm

Slick wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:37 am

Grandpa wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:33 am I think I must be paranoid. Was the only one wearing a mask in Tesco last night. I felt a bit like someone about to rob the place.

My brother and his wife had Covid a few weeks back. Both boostered... both said it was like bad flu. Stuck in bed for a few days... testing negative at that point. Only tested positive after the worst had passed... and they were up and about again. Seems to be common that delayed positive test?

Yeah, I felt pretty dreadful on Thursday and Friday before actually testing positive on Saturday

I'll remember that if I get ill.. wait a few days before testing...

Just test repeatedly. I tested positive twice right at the beginning of symptoms 1st and 2nd day (weaker +ve) then negative the rest of it.

I had a really nasty stomach bug last week and to be honest would have preferred another bout of COVID

dpedin wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:17 pm ZOE study finds top 5 omicron (bit like Delta) symptoms are runny nose, headache, fatigue (mild to severe), sneezing and sore throat - the symptoms mentioned above on posts seem to fall in line?

My wife is 8 days in and struggling with all those symptoms, she also has a sore stomach and queasiness!

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.00135-22

Despite bearing many more RBD mutations, the epistatic landscape of Omicron closely resembles that of Gamma. Thus, although Omicron poses new risks not observed with Delta, structural constraints on the RBD appear to hamper continued evolution toward more complete vaccine escape. The modest ensemble of mutations relative to the wild type that are currently known to reduce vaccine efficacy is likely to contain the majority of all possible escape mutations for future variants, predicting the continued efficacy of the existing vaccines.

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:51 pm Ffs guys, hoping you’ll all be fine.
Now it looks like it’s not if but when.

Watch for these symptoms
https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/memory-long-COVID

Is that not 70% of Long Covid patients, rather than 70% of all Covid patients?

So hopefully still an "if"?

dpedin wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:17 pm ZOE study finds top 5 omicron (bit like Delta) symptoms are runny nose, headache, fatigue (mild to severe), sneezing and sore throat - the symptoms mentioned above on posts seem to fall in line?

I had COVID a couple of weeks back. Symptoms were a cough and a bit of fatigue. None of the others. Had symptoms for a couple of days before testing positive which apparently is common with the latest variant. Tested negative 5 days later.

I am reasonably confident I caught COVID at the Quins v Newcastle game.

petej wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:01 pm https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.00135-22

Despite bearing many more RBD mutations, the epistatic landscape of Omicron closely resembles that of Gamma. Thus, although Omicron poses new risks not observed with Delta, structural constraints on the RBD appear to hamper continued evolution toward more complete vaccine escape. The modest ensemble of mutations relative to the wild type that are currently known to reduce vaccine efficacy is likely to contain the majority of all possible escape mutations for future variants, predicting the continued efficacy of the existing vaccines.

That's a fantastic title. Right at the start of the pandemic it was being theorized that structural constraints would but a brake on evolution of immune escape and the fact that the vaccine designed for the original variant is still highly effective at preventing severe disease by Omicron is pretty remarkable, and the reason we haven't seen the introduction of a new vaccine.

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:29 pm

Grandpa wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:05 pm

Marylandolorian wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:51 pm Ffs guys, hoping you’ll all be fine.
Now it looks like it’s not if but when.

Watch for these symptoms
https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/memory-long-COVID

Is that not 70% of Long Covid patients, rather than 70% of all Covid patients?

So hopefully still an "if"?

Oh sorry, the If & When was about getting the Covid.
I started to write something about an old sailing adage but removed it as I didn’t want to be accused of Globuslism.

I agree with you then... It is a matter of when...

Now, about that boat...

Calculon wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:34 pm

petej wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:01 pm https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.00135-22

Despite bearing many more RBD mutations, the epistatic landscape of Omicron closely resembles that of Gamma. Thus, although Omicron poses new risks not observed with Delta, structural constraints on the RBD appear to hamper continued evolution toward more complete vaccine escape. The modest ensemble of mutations relative to the wild type that are currently known to reduce vaccine efficacy is likely to contain the majority of all possible escape mutations for future variants, predicting the continued efficacy of the existing vaccines.

That's a fantastic title. Right at the start of the pandemic it was being theorized that structural constraints would but a brake on evolution of immune escape and the fact that the vaccine designed for the original variant is still highly effective at preventing severe disease by Omicron is pretty remarkable, and the reason we haven't seen the introduction of a new vaccine.

It would also mean a more universal vaccine can be developed.

Sounds like NZ has changed/dropped many restrictions, despite being in the height of infections.

Vaccine passes gone, vaccine mandates reduced in terms of job. And I think reduction of restrictions regarding inside/outside limits.

Ymx wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:26 pm Sounds like NZ has changed/dropped many restrictions, despite being in the height of infections.

Reported case numbers have been dropping for a week. Why do you always get essential facts wrong?

We've got a massive majority vaccinated. We've run a successful booster program. We've had something like 1 1/2 million catch the virus out of 5 million or so total.

Now is the right time to loosen up, we're as well prepared as we can be.

^^^ Now is the time to loosen up
Just WhoTF are you to decree that?
How dare you contradict prominent microbiologist of international repute Siouxie Wiles who is demanding that we Maintain The Fear:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national ... hp&pc=U531