Kicking off in Israel

[sockwithaticket]

Charlie Kirk could tell me my own name and I'd still want additional sources to corroborate. A bald-faced liar on a par with Tucker Carlson.

All any reputable organisation will report at present is - explosion, FBI investigating.

[Margin__Walker]

Misinformation is being hard peddled by both sides. We are yet to see any concrete justification for the targetting of civilians as collateral in the hospital. Same with the bombing of refugee camps.

We sit here and see the deluge of anti Palestine messaging covered in the veneer of 'but Hamas'.... while the brutal reality is that for years now, the death count inflicted by Israel far outweighs that by Hamas.

I'm sorry Raggs, but in my eyes both sides are equally hateful. Israel has created the problem of Hamas through its own actions and policies. Netanyahu's government is one of extremes and actions sanctioned by it qualify as terrorist actions. I think my first comment on this thread revolved around neither side having any moral high ground in this conflict. I've seen nothing to change that view... but I've lost all sympathy for Israel over the barbarity and brutality employed as response to Oct 7th. It's out of all proportion and inexcusable... the year is 2023 and we are watching attempted genocide. I remember the shock and outrage that swept the world over the Balkan conflicts... this is orders of magnitude beyond that.

The impact on Palestinian civilians here is immense, but this is well side of the mark imo.

In the Balkan conflicts you had naked targeted genocide. Thousands upon thousands victim to large scale organised executions.

The IDF aren't trying to destroy, partially or wholly a national people. If they are, they aren't doing a great job of it. They are pursuing military goals (misguided or otherwise) against Hamas after being attacked. Within that, their tolerance for collateral damage (terrible term I know) is clearly lax and potentially criminal in some cases based on the principal of proportionality. But it's not genocide.

I'm not sure I agree.

Look at the wider context of Israel's actions. You have the settlements on the west bank and they are getting more and more aggressive since Oct 7th with the repression being very arbitrary. If it's a war against Hamas, why are they tightening the noose on the west bank which is not governed by Hamas?

Gaza has been under blockade for decades.

Israel has consistently undermined the two state solution that they agreed to.

The choices open to Palestinians appear to be complete and utter submission or leave/die. First is never going to happen so that leaves leave/die. That's genocide.

When the phrase "river to the sea" comes up, are we sure that is not Israeli policy also?

Let's call it what it is, this is an ugly conflict of modern day colonial subjugation carried out in the age of tik tok.

The two state solution has pretty clearly been undermined by both sides over the years. Hamas (or their foreign backers) clearly don't have much interest in it. West Bank settlers have absolutely inflamed the situation and their existence does make the prospect of lasting peace more difficult. It's clearly far easier to be sympathetic to the PA governing the West Bank, than it is with Hamas in Gaza. I remember Christopher Hitchens talking on several occasions about the failure of the US to extract a higher price from Israel for their continued support. And that a red line should always have been the expansion of the settlements.

To prove genocide in Gaza though, you need to prove intent to wholly or partially destroy a people. There's clearly an articulated intent to destroy Hamas here, but that's not the case imo for the Palestinian population in Gaza no matter how indiscriminate people do or don't think the IDF's actions are during this retaliatory action.

[C69]

From all the pics from Gaza it looks more like a preconstruction site. It looks to me like somewhat that needs to be bulldozed and a new City built upon.
Was this an objective from the very begining? Ask the citizens to leave so that the infra structure can be destroyed and then then resettled with Israelis?
Has this even been muted by Israelis?
It looks like ethnic cleansing techniques. A coordinated strategy like the settlements.

I hope I am wrong but the pictures show a deliberate attempt to create an unhabitable desolate wasteland that no one will ever be able or want to return to for years.
It's whole water and sanitation and gas and electricity destroyed, it will have to all be levelled and rebuilt.
This must be deliberate and have been talked about by the Israeli political parties at some time.

[C69]

The impact on Palestinian civilians here is immense, but this is well side of the mark imo.

In the Balkan conflicts you had naked targeted genocide. Thousands upon thousands victim to large scale organised executions.

The IDF aren't trying to destroy, partially or wholly a national people. If they are, they aren't doing a great job of it. They are pursuing military goals (misguided or otherwise) against Hamas after being attacked. Within that, their tolerance for collateral damage (terrible term I know) is clearly lax and potentially criminal in some cases based on the principal of proportionality. But it's not genocide.

I'm not sure I agree.

Look at the wider context of Israel's actions. You have the settlements on the west bank and they are getting more and more aggressive since Oct 7th with the repression being very arbitrary. If it's a war against Hamas, why are they tightening the noose on the west bank which is not governed by Hamas?

Gaza has been under blockade for decades.

Israel has consistently undermined the two state solution that they agreed to.

The choices open to Palestinians appear to be complete and utter submission or leave/die. First is never going to happen so that leaves leave/die. That's genocide.

When the phrase "river to the sea" comes up, are we sure that is not Israeli policy also?

Let's call it what it is, this is an ugly conflict of modern day colonial subjugation carried out in the age of tik tok.

The two state solution has pretty clearly been undermined by both sides over the years. Hamas (or their foreign backers) clearly don't have much interest in it. West Bank settlers have absolutely inflamed the situation and their existence does make the prospect of lasting peace more difficult. It's clearly far easier to be sympathetic to the PA governing the West Bank, than it is with Hamas in Gaza. I remember Christopher Hitchens talking on several occasions about the failure of the US to extract a higher price from Israel for their continued support. And that a red line should always have been the expansion of the settlements.

To prove genocide in Gaza though, you need to prove intent to wholly or partially destroy a people. There's clearly an articulated intent to destroy Hamas here, but that's not the case imo for the Palestinian population in Gaza no matter how indiscriminate people do or don't think the IDF's actions are during this retaliatory action.

It's interesting how you rightly use the term (foreign backers ) inrelation to Hamas. Iran are the puppet mastersoibviously.
Remember Israel have been using American planes and munitions to bamb Gaza and kill civilians and destroy buildings.
I think some decorum and proportionality is needed as well as a recognition that the USA has slaughtered over a milllion in the region quite recently and left a basket case in a number of countries.

[Margin__Walker]

The two state solution has pretty clearly been undermined by both sides over the years. Hamas (or their foreign backers) clearly don't have much interest in it. West Bank settlers have absolutely inflamed the situation and their existence does make the prospect of lasting peace more difficult. It's clearly far easier to be sympathetic to the PA governing the West Bank, than it is with Hamas in Gaza. I remember Christopher Hitchens talking on several occasions about the failure of the US to extract a higher price from Israel for their continued support. And that a red line should always have been the expansion of the settlements.

To prove genocide in Gaza though, you need to prove intent to wholly or partially destroy a people. There's clearly an articulated intent to destroy Hamas here, but that's not the case imo for the Palestinian population in Gaza no matter how indiscriminate people do or don't think the IDF's actions are during this retaliatory action.

It's interesting how you rightly use the term (foreign backers ) inrelation to Hamas. Iran are the puppet mastersoibviously.
Remember Israel have been using American planes and munitions to bamb Gaza and kill civilians and destroy buildings.
I think some decorum and proportionality is needed as well as a recognition that the USA has slaughtered over a milllion in the region quite recently and left a basket case in a number of countries.

I call out the US propping up Israel in that post. And this thread's already long enough without getting into a discussion about US adventures in the rest of the Middle East

[C69]

The two state solution has pretty clearly been undermined by both sides over the years. Hamas (or their foreign backers) clearly don't have much interest in it. West Bank settlers have absolutely inflamed the situation and their existence does make the prospect of lasting peace more difficult. It's clearly far easier to be sympathetic to the PA governing the West Bank, than it is with Hamas in Gaza. I remember Christopher Hitchens talking on several occasions about the failure of the US to extract a higher price from Israel for their continued support. And that a red line should always have been the expansion of the settlements.

To prove genocide in Gaza though, you need to prove intent to wholly or partially destroy a people. There's clearly an articulated intent to destroy Hamas here, but that's not the case imo for the Palestinian population in Gaza no matter how indiscriminate people do or don't think the IDF's actions are during this retaliatory action.

It's interesting how you rightly use the term (foreign backers ) inrelation to Hamas. Iran are the puppet mastersoibviously.
Remember Israel have been using American planes and munitions to bamb Gaza and kill civilians and destroy buildings.
I think some decorum and proportionality is needed as well as a recognition that the USA has slaughtered over a milllion in the region quite recently and left a basket case in a number of countries.

I call out the US propping up Israel in that post. And this thread's already long enough without getting into a discussion about US adventures in the rest of the Middle East

You mentioned foreign backers and by far the most influential and arguably for those dead, genocidal are those forces ofthe west the USA and their allies.

[Margin__Walker]

It's interesting how you rightly use the term (foreign backers ) inrelation to Hamas. Iran are the puppet mastersoibviously.
Remember Israel have been using American planes and munitions to bamb Gaza and kill civilians and destroy buildings.
I think some decorum and proportionality is needed as well as a recognition that the USA has slaughtered over a milllion in the region quite recently and left a basket case in a number of countries.

I call out the US propping up Israel in that post. And this thread's already long enough without getting into a discussion about US adventures in the rest of the Middle East

You mentioned foreign backers and by far the most influential and arguably for those dead, genocidal are those forces ofthe west the USA and their allies.

Half the world is armed with US military hardware. Israel clearly more than many. This isn't a proxy war though that's at all in their interest. It's a massive headache for them.

It is however in Iran's, hence mentioning them within the confines of being a barrier to a two state solution.

[C69]

I call out the US propping up Israel in that post. And this thread's already long enough without getting into a discussion about US adventures in the rest of the Middle East

You mentioned foreign backers and by far the most influential and arguably for those dead, genocidal are those forces ofthe west the USA and their allies.

Half the world is armed with US military hardware. Israel clearly more than many. This isn't a proxy war though that's at all in their interest. It's a massive headache for them.

It is however in Iran's, hence mentioning them within the confines of being a barrier to a two state solution.

I think a two State solution atm is a major issue for Government Minsiters in Israel.
The Unity govt still has far right Ministers that want to eradicate Palestine and fomer Ministers that want to raze Gaza and grab the land.
They are as much of an issue imho and spread the seeds of hate as much as Hamas.

[Margin__Walker]

You mentioned foreign backers and by far the most influential and arguably for those dead, genocidal are those forces ofthe west the USA and their allies.

Half the world is armed with US military hardware. Israel clearly more than many. This isn't a proxy war though that's at all in their interest. It's a massive headache for them.

It is however in Iran's, hence mentioning them within the confines of being a barrier to a two state solution.

I think a two State solution atm is a major issue for Government Minsiters in Israel.
The Unity govt still has far right Ministers that want to eradicate Palestine and fomer Ministers that want to raze Gaza and grab the land.
They are as much of an issue imho and spread the seeds of hate as much as Hamas.

The current coalition is absolutely not the government to take forward a two state solution. No progress was ever likely with them in power, before or in the future. No argument on that front.

[C69]

Terrorist attack car bomb in the states



It says attempted, so hopefully that just means a Darwin.

So Israeli angle?

[Tichtheid]

I hardly think it is arrogance to downplay Scotland's limited impact on world affairs. I would say the arrogance exists in the Scottish politicians thinking otherwise.

In addition I doubt anyone here is "wetting themselves". That's an entirely childish and unnecessary play on things and if anyone comes across as anything near that description i would suggest it may be you given the efforts you go to to get your point across.

You said the Scottish parliament had spent the whole day debating and voting on the issue. It wasn't even two and half hours, including motions for amendments from both Tory and Labour.

I agree that the "wetting themselves" was uncalled for, I was going to change it to "those concerned about the amount of time" but I was irked by the dismissal of Scot Gov as "too wee and unimportant" tone from three posts on it.

I stooped there, mea culpa.

I think you maybe take some of this a bit too seriously. I treat this place as just a bit of banter and really put the square root of zero effort into it. I'm not trying to win any debates just have a bit of a blether without really worrying about the pinpoint accuracy you require.

Noted, and in future I'll know the degree of effort at accuracy in your posts.

[Tichtheid]

Terrorist attack car bomb in the states



It says attempted, so hopefully that just means a Darwin.

So Israeli angle?

From the Washington Post

Two people familiar with the investigation said there was no immediate evidence of any nexus to terrorism, but officials continue to investigate and their understanding could change. New York Gov. Kathy Hochul (D) echoed that assessment during a news conference

[Raggs]

The video footage shows the car traveling at a hell of a speed, hitting something and going airborne, flying through the air and hitting the checkpoint. What I've read suggests the fireball could just be from the impact.

In other news, North Korea has just withdrawn from the military agreement that's in place with South Korea, so there's another war arena that might be opening up. So that's now middle East, Eastern Europe, and Asia. Wonder if the new Argentinean prime minister will find something to get upset about.

[Guy Smiley]

Shocking lack of self awareness from Raggs. Israel is a hostile occupying force. There's almost universal use of the term 'occupied territories' ffs. Palestinians have been killed by Israelis as a matter of course for years.

The universal use of such terms for Israel is part of the every day anti zionist (not to say anti semitic) propaganda. For 75 years only one side, the arabs, has continually tried to invade and murder the other. As a result of that, mainly 3 won major wars in which they were attacked but came out victorious, Israel has taken military control of territories. Those territories were part a UN proposed arab state in the former british mandatory palestine, which the arabs did not want, though. Instead, they declared war and terror for 75 years.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/11/22/ga ... ign=buffer

The Netanyahu government, from which all this bilge is coming, is said to be falling in the opinion polls. In Israel there is vast clamour for it to go, assailing it for its cynicism, extremisms and recklessness. This is not just in Haaretz, but across the media, and it shows a disconnect between Israel and its lapdog global supporters who simply affirm Netanyahu as the leader of plucky little Israel. That said, “opposition” leader Benny Gantz is in the war cabinet, and supports the open-ended waging of the war. The repeated exterminatory comments by government ministers are ignored by Israel’s global supporters who fret about slogans on posters, given a pass by a compliant mainstream media.

The history of Zionism has become that of all alternatives to hard right Zionism falling away, with Zionist fascism now dominant. The movement had a problem with the fact of an existing population from the start. “First wave Zionism” from the 1890s to the 1920s entertained various ideas of cooperation, purportedly “benevolent” colonialism or the like. A radical socialist movement, Hashomer Hatzair, advocated and developed collective Arab-Jewish kibbutzes and shared political parties. This survived even the horrors of 1948, but it is now all but vanished as a movement of any size. And its historical possibilities can be exaggerated in retrospect.

But five years after the 1917 Balfour declaration committing the UK and the League of Nations to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine, the lack of progress saw a split and the emergence of “revisionist” Zionism. Led by Ze’ev Jabotinsky, revisionists were at least clear-eyed about the situation: the Arabs would never give up their homeland, so it must be taken. The aim was both sides of the Jordan (i.e. current Israel, the West Bank and Jordan). Arabs would be expelled, or a permanent minority.

Revisionism emerged in the 1920s when force and will politics — whether of the Bolsheviks or Mussolini — had triumphed, showing that a small group of people (with some substantial backing) could create “facts on the ground”. The UK maintained control over Palestine in order to maintain control of the Suez Canal and the region, and by the late 1920s revisionism had sprouted a “maximalist” faction, led by Abba Ahimeir, an intellectual who had passed through Bolshevik and Spenglerian stages.

In 1929 he identified himself publicly as a fascist, and argued that Zionism was necessarily a totalitarian movement. In 1933 he argued for total separation from the Zionist mainstream movement, and praised ultra-nationalists who had made similar separations from larger movements: “Attaturk, Mussolini, De Valera, Hitler.” Everyone praised Mussolini in the ’20s, but Ahimeir’s piece marks the first appearance of a strange mirroring between revisionist Zionism and Nazism.


The maximalists briefly took over the revisionist faction, then collapsed when members were involved in the assassination of a mainstream Zionist Haim Arlosoroff. By then, however, their ethos had passed into revisionism proper. In 1931, the Irgun militia was formed, and by 1936 had adopted terrorism tactics against Arab communities.

To say this is all complicated is to understate it somewhat, since these groups were also involved in getting tens of thousands of Jews out of Europe — Jews refused entry by almost everyone, Australia included. This strategy increased Arab resistance, and in turn the Irgun ratcheted up targeted terrorism.

This strange period produced its most prophetic figure, Avraham Stern. An Irgun commander, Stern was portrayed as a gangster by the British, but he was a poet and mystic who joined the notion of the Old Testament promise of Israel to the Jews, with a modern Nietzschean notion of will, and a celebration of death in service of the cause. This was the full inversion of the positive, if naïve, movement Zionism had started as. When WWII began, the Irgun announced a ceasefire against the British. Stern rejected this, and split, starting his own group, the Lehi (which the British labelled “The Stern Gang”).

Adopting Amiheir’s arguments about totalitarian Zionism, Stern sought several times to make a deal with Nazi Germany, arguing that establishing a Jewish homeland faithful to Nazi interests would contribute to the world’s New Order. This was something more than flattery to create a Jewish transfer from Germany, a reasonable enough goal. It was an offer to fight against the British, for the Nazis, in 1941, when it was becoming clear that control of North Africa would determine the war.

The Lehi kept up guerrilla and terrorist activities throughout the war, and were part of the systemic “Plan D” massacres of Arab villages that ethnically cleansed central Palestine in 1948, creating a territorialised Israel. They faded rapidly in post-establishment Israel (becoming fervently pro-Stalin; there really isn’t space to explain that), and Shamir eventually joined Likud. (It’s necessary to note here that there have been strong and explicit Nazi currents through Arab nationalist politics. But they’re not the ones currently threatening disease as a weapon.)

What’s happened now is passing strange. Revisionism was successful in becoming a powerful faction because it understood that the Arab claim to Palestine was equally legitimate. Its leaders were secular or atheistic East Europeans; its politics was a transplanted form of Russian Narodniki terrorism, with a heavy dose of Nietzsche. Its ruthlessness came from will not hate, an abandonment of the appeal to universal morality and the commitment to creating an unarguable fact. Old Testament Judaism entered it as a prophetic form of that will, but it was not overpowering. This was essentially a modern, right-Jacobin movement with fixed goals.

After 30 years of Labor leading Israel, revisionist politics reemerged in 1978 with the election of Menachim Begin (ex-Irgun) and then Yitzhak Shamir (ex-Lehi), and a modified form of “both sides of the Jordan” politics: to the Jordan by way of Jewish settlements in the West Bank. The mystically violent politics returned with the settlers, their political parties — and Benjamin Netanyahu.

Here the tale comes full circle. Netanyahu’s grandfather Nathan Mileikowsky was a leading revisionist, who protected the assassins of mainstream Zionist Arlosoff in 1933. Netanyahu’s father, Benzion, was also a leading revisionist who was a friend of Abba Ahimeir, and advocated against the 1947 UN partition plan (in favour of Greater Israel). Netanyahu himself, raised in Israel and the US, is a confluence of maximalist revisionism and American corporatism, having had a first career at the Boston Consulting Group. In 2018 he channelled Ahimeir and Stern with this bizarre tweet from the prime ministerial account:

Which was followed three weeks ago, by the since-deleted tweet, that this conflict was a:

… struggle between the children of light and the children of darkness, between humanity and the law of the jungle …

while also invoking the biblical story of Amalek in speaking to IDF troops before the Gaza invasion. Mentioned in Deuteronomy, Amalek is a king whose people ambushed the Jews escaping from Egypt, and stands as a generic everlasting enemy of the Jews. Crossing the Mosaic law of retribution (“an eye for an eye”) is permitted to achieve total annihilation. Netanyahu uses this stuff cynically to play to both Israeli and US fundamentalists. But the people he has made a government with take it literally.

[C69]

When the Hamas leaders walk through the blitzkrieg streets of Gaza and count the near tens of thousands dead do you think they will believe they have done a good job wj the October 7th massacre?
Or will they realise no one will ever return there and it will be used eventually for the desired purpose of Israeli settlements?

[C69]

When the Hamas leaders walk through the blitzkrieg streets of Gaza and count the near tens of thousands dead do you think they will believe they have done a good job wj the October 7th massacre?
Or will they realise no one will ever return there and it will be used eventually for the desired purpose of Israeli settlements?

[Blackmac]

You said the Scottish parliament had spent the whole day debating and voting on the issue. It wasn't even two and half hours, including motions for amendments from both Tory and Labour.

I agree that the "wetting themselves" was uncalled for, I was going to change it to "those concerned about the amount of time" but I was irked by the dismissal of Scot Gov as "too wee and unimportant" tone from three posts on it.

I stooped there, mea culpa.

I think you maybe take some of this a bit too seriously. I treat this place as just a bit of banter and really put the square root of zero effort into it. I'm not trying to win any debates just have a bit of a blether without really worrying about the pinpoint accuracy you require.

Noted, and in future I'll know the degree of effort at accuracy in your posts.

Ooohh, you just can't help yourself can you.

[Sandstorm]

When the Hamas leaders walk through the blitzkrieg streets of Gaza and count the near tens of thousands dead do you think they will believe they have done a good job wj the October 7th massacre?
Or will they realise no one will ever return there and it will be used eventually for the desired purpose of Israeli settlements?

Don't be silly. They're paid to make war, not care about their own people.

[David in Gwent]

From all the pics from Gaza it looks more like a preconstruction site. It looks to me like somewhat that needs to be bulldozed and a new City built upon.
Was this an objective from the very begining? Ask the citizens to leave so that the infra structure can be destroyed and then then resettled with Israelis?
Has this even been muted by Israelis?
It looks like ethnic cleansing techniques. A coordinated strategy like the settlements.

I hope I am wrong but the pictures show a deliberate attempt to create an unhabitable desolate wasteland that no one will ever be able or want to return to for years.
It's whole water and sanitation and gas and electricity destroyed, it will have to all be levelled and rebuilt.
This must be deliberate and have been talked about by the Israeli political parties at some time.

It's a popular conspiracy theory, no doubt.

However, it's the same lengths i'd go too if I had the means, in order destroy, once and for all, the people who kidnapped and murdered my children.

[Raggs]

Apparently the ceasefire is delayed, suggested that Sinwar had additional demands.

Potentially included in that, or potentially in addition, Hamas is now refusing the allow the International Red Cross visit the remaining hostages to check on their wellbeing, after the release is completed. Reported here: https://twitter.com/gaza_report

[C69]

From all the pics from Gaza it looks more like a preconstruction site. It looks to me like somewhat that needs to be bulldozed and a new City built upon.
Was this an objective from the very begining? Ask the citizens to leave so that the infra structure can be destroyed and then then resettled with Israelis?
Has this even been muted by Israelis?
It looks like ethnic cleansing techniques. A coordinated strategy like the settlements.

I hope I am wrong but the pictures show a deliberate attempt to create an unhabitable desolate wasteland that no one will ever be able or want to return to for years.
It's whole water and sanitation and gas and electricity destroyed, it will have to all be levelled and rebuilt.
This must be deliberate and have been talked about by the Israeli political parties at some time.

It's a popular conspiracy theory, no doubt.

However, it's the same lengths i'd go too if I had the means, in order destroy, once and for all, the people who kidnapped and murdered my children.

You think it's a conspiracy theory?

[David in Gwent]

I believe Hamas and it's agencies have spent billions of dollars and over a decade planning and preparing Al Aqsa flood.

I don't believe it was a funded Mossad project to facilitate the destruction of Gaza, like you appear too.

Israel and settlers were in Gaza 15 years ago and left, in order to promote peace and accord.

So yeah, conspiracy theory.

[C69]

I believe Hamas and it's agencies have spent billions of dollars and over a decade planning and preparing Al Aqsa flood.

I don't believe it was a funded Mossad project to facilitate the destruction of Gaza, like you appear too.

Israel and settlers were in Gaza 15 years ago and left, in order to promote peace and accord.

So yeah, conspiracy theory.

I've not mentioned Mossad at all
However there seems to be sections of the Israeli political scene including ex ministers that state exactly what I hàve posted. Tbh they go a little bit further with their hate speech towards Palestinians.

[C69]

I believe Hamas and it's agencies have spent billions of dollars and over a decade planning and preparing Al Aqsa flood.

I don't believe it was a funded Mossad project to facilitate the destruction of Gaza, like you appear too.

Israel and settlers were in Gaza 15 years ago and left, in order to promote peace and accord.

So yeah, conspiracy theory.

LOL

Ayelet Shaked makes provocative statements on relocating population in GazaAyelet Shaked, Israel's former justice minister, has made provocative statements regarding the future of the Gaza Strip, particularly Khan Younis. She spoke of transforming Khan Younis into a soccer field with ‘the assistance of God and the IDF’. Shaked said Israel should take ‘take advantage of the destruction that we will wreak upon them’ in Gaza and pressure countries worldwide into accepting quotas of Gazan refugees, ranging from 20,000 to 50,000 per country. This, she argues, is vital for easing the departure of Gazans, a process she deems complicated until now. Not the first Israeli politician to have made such comments, Shaked's remarks further implicate the Israeli government and shed light on the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people as Israel seeks to resettle what remains of the population in Gaza after the war.

[David in Gwent]

Look at you and your pathetic little chubby for the words of a former JM.

Do you think Palestinian refugees should go to Muslim countries or to Western countries, by the way?

[C69]

Look at you and your pathetic little chubby for the words of a former JM.

Do you think Palestinian refugees should go to Muslim countries or to Western countries, by the way?

In reality I don't give a shit where they go as I think they should stay in their homeland. But it's a bit destroyed atm.
Israel and Hamas caused this problem let them sort it out.

Still think it's a conspiracy theory?

Tbh she is quite fit though

[Slick]

From all the pics from Gaza it looks more like a preconstruction site. It looks to me like somewhat that needs to be bulldozed and a new City built upon.
Was this an objective from the very begining? Ask the citizens to leave so that the infra structure can be destroyed and then then resettled with Israelis?
Has this even been muted by Israelis?
It looks like ethnic cleansing techniques. A coordinated strategy like the settlements.

I hope I am wrong but the pictures show a deliberate attempt to create an unhabitable desolate wasteland that no one will ever be able or want to return to for years.
It's whole water and sanitation and gas and electricity destroyed, it will have to all be levelled and rebuilt.
This must be deliberate and have been talked about by the Israeli political parties at some time.

I think this is probably close to the truth. Israel know that no one is going to stop them and know that whatever they do the world will move on. They’ve known this for a long time and don’t care, the US will never turn against them and the rest don’t matter.

Edit: not sure about the bit about settling it with Israelis, but Gaza isn’t going to be anything like it was before by the time this is finished

[Raggs]

https://x.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1727 ... 44495?s=20

Seeing it reported in more locations now that Hamas will not allow the red cross to visit the hostages still in Gaza after the release, despite it being part of the temporary ceasefire agreement.

Also been rumoured that a 4 year old American Israeli girl (now orphan) will not be released, despite originally being named as one of those who will be.

Apparently Hamas only has most the hostages, other groups have the rest, and the theory is that Hamas simply don't know where they all are or what condition they're in, which would explain the above.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

From all the pics from Gaza it looks more like a preconstruction site. It looks to me like somewhat that needs to be bulldozed and a new City built upon.
Was this an objective from the very begining? Ask the citizens to leave so that the infra structure can be destroyed and then then resettled with Israelis?
Has this even been muted by Israelis?
It looks like ethnic cleansing techniques. A coordinated strategy like the settlements.

I hope I am wrong but the pictures show a deliberate attempt to create an unhabitable desolate wasteland that no one will ever be able or want to return to for years.
It's whole water and sanitation and gas and electricity destroyed, it will have to all be levelled and rebuilt.
This must be deliberate and have been talked about by the Israeli political parties at some time.

I think this is probably close to the truth. Israel know that no one is going to stop them and know that whatever they do the world will move on. They’ve known this for a long time and don’t care, the US will never turn against them and the rest don’t matter.

Edit: not sure about the bit about settling it with Israelis, but Gaza isn’t going to be anything like it was before by the time this is finished

And yet at the same time Israel in many ways for many involved will not have moved on from the Oct 7th massacre/mass kindnap, indeed they'll feel threatened people are telling them they need to bring to a halt a scenario in which they're lashing out trying to feel safe. And they'll be in many ways even more aggrieved to hear that coming out of the US when they basically acted on US advice to set up a staged entry into Gaza, they'd have probably gone much harder much sooner.

Anyway, it's very easy to point at either side and establish a clear blame/wrong, none of it helps really.

The hostages, well that's a clusterfuck. Trying to work out who has whom where, and then trying to coordinate their return to a safe site that doesn't see them hit by a missile on the way, nor those delivering them hit by one on their return back. And every exchange of information goes back and forwards between say Qatar and various others and has at minimum 4 exchanges of information in a horrible game of Chinese Whispers, and not surprisingly not everyone (on both sides) is always acting in the interest of the hostages so false info goes both ways and the whole thing breaks down again, or it's just practically near impossible to arrange. And that even if Hamas could speak to all the hostages, which they can't so its much worse again.

[C69]

https://x.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1727 ... 44495?s=20

Seeing it reported in more locations now that Hamas will not allow the red cross to visit the hostages still in Gaza after the release, despite it being part of the temporary ceasefire agreement.

Also been rumoured that a 4 year old American Israeli girl (now orphan) will not be released, despite originally being named as one of those who will be.

Apparently Hamas only has most the hostages, other groups have the rest, and the theory is that Hamas simply don't know where they all are or what condition they're in, which would explain the above.

I'll never defend Hamas they arev religious zealots and vile but lets give Israel a clap the Propaganda war is won in the UK and America
https://www.newarab.com/news/bbc-staff- ... -reporting

[Raggs]

https://x.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1727 ... 44495?s=20

Seeing it reported in more locations now that Hamas will not allow the red cross to visit the hostages still in Gaza after the release, despite it being part of the temporary ceasefire agreement.

Also been rumoured that a 4 year old American Israeli girl (now orphan) will not be released, despite originally being named as one of those who will be.

Apparently Hamas only has most the hostages, other groups have the rest, and the theory is that Hamas simply don't know where they all are or what condition they're in, which would explain the above.

I'll never defend Hamas they arev religious zealots and vile but lets give Israel a clap the Propaganda war is won in the UK and America
https://www.newarab.com/news/bbc-staff- ... -reporting

BBC were doing their best when they happily reported Israel has destroyed a hospital and killed 500+ people. And later when they reported that Israelis entering al shifa were targeting Arab speakers and medics... Propanganda war won, my arse.

[C69]

https://x.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1727 ... 44495?s=20

Seeing it reported in more locations now that Hamas will not allow the red cross to visit the hostages still in Gaza after the release, despite it being part of the temporary ceasefire agreement.

Also been rumoured that a 4 year old American Israeli girl (now orphan) will not be released, despite originally being named as one of those who will be.

Apparently Hamas only has most the hostages, other groups have the rest, and the theory is that Hamas simply don't know where they all are or what condition they're in, which would explain the above.

I'll never defend Hamas they arev religious zealots and vile but lets give Israel a clap the Propaganda war is won in the UK and America
https://www.newarab.com/news/bbc-staff- ... -reporting

BBC were doing their best when they happily reported Israel has destroyed a hospital and killed 500+ people. And later when they reported that Israelis entering al shifa were targeting Arab speakers and medics... Propanganda war won, my arse.

Not seen anything like that on the Beeb tbh.

[Uncle fester]

Terrorist attack car bomb in the states



It says attempted, so hopefully that just means a Darwin.

Remember when you spent page after page hectoring us about incorrect reporting and coming to conclusions too soon earlier in this thread?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... bow-bridge

[C69]

Terrorist attack car bomb in the states



It says attempted, so hopefully that just means a Darwin.

Remember when you spent page after page hectoring us about incorrect reporting and coming to conclusions too soon earlier in this thread?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... bow-bridge

Tbh he isn't the brightest, leave him alone.

[Uncle fester]

I see what you're doing
I see you

[Raggs]

Not seen anything like that on the Beeb tbh.

I'm going to assume you saw the 500+ dead in al shifa and the BBC reporter on the ground being extremely cynical that it wasn't Israel after Israel had denied it.

https://x.com/HeidiBachram/status/17247 ... 87048?s=20

BBC were literally reporting from the Reuters report where you can easily read what was actually reported. This wasn't taking Hamas at it's word. This was reading a Reuters report, getting it completely wrong somehow, and then not even thinking it perhaps needs a second read to be sure.


Edit - temporary ceasefire in place, with the seemingly obligatory rocket launch from Gaza 15 minutes after the truce had kicked in

[C69]

Not seen anything like that on the Beeb tbh.

I'm going to assume you saw the 500+ dead in al shifa and the BBC reporter on the ground being extremely cynical that it wasn't Israel after Israel had denied it.

https://x.com/HeidiBachram/status/17247 ... 87048?s=20

BBC were literally reporting from the Reuters report where you can easily read what was actually reported. This wasn't taking Hamas at it's word. This was reading a Reuters report, getting it completely wrong somehow, and then not even thinking it perhaps needs a second read to be sure.


Edit - temporary ceasefire in place, with the seemingly obligatory rocket launch from Gaza 15 minutes after the truce had kicked in

No never seen that report.
Lets hope peace is soon.

[Raggs]

I assume you mean Al Ahli hospital that you've not seen. Obvious I can't get the full report now since it's been updated/deleted etc.





As this one was never reported to be Israel, I guess it wasn't newsworthy when another errant rocket hit a UNRWA school in Gaza, and seemingly caused at least a few casaulties.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%40gaza_re ... uery&f=top

[Ymx]

Terrorist attack car bomb in the states



It says attempted, so hopefully that just means a Darwin.

Remember when you spent page after page hectoring us about incorrect reporting and coming to conclusions too soon earlier in this thread?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... bow-bridge

Eh ?

Perhaps I was having a go at the BBC!

[Ymx]

.