NPR

As Spike Milligan said, "My uncle was a great man, he told me so himself. 'I am a great man,' he said, and you cannot argue with facts like that.".

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:46 pm Tbf it's rampantly political in places like NZ and the US so you can't trust their judgement on this at all

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:20 pm No I didn't. I assessed a real risk there. I think here I am just waiting and seeing. I am cool with you guys digging the trenches, playing football on Christmas day and then going over the top for me

Some people's perception of risk has become completely distorted.

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:39 pm I can’t believe some morons, oops I meant parents, hesitate to get their kids vaccinated.

COVID vaccines in children cut Omicron hospitalizations by 68% ( source : Boston Children’s Hospital)

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2202826

Would you allow your kids to play rugby?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:25 pm Why would one not have their children vaccinated against Covid 19?

The point of having your kids vaccinated against omicron is to lower the (small) risk of them getting hospitalized/dying. Since that poster's children have already been infected several times by sars cov 2 without complications that already small risk becomes minute.

Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:53 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:25 pm Why would one not have their children vaccinated against Covid 19?

The point of having your kids vaccinated against omicron is to lower the (small) risk of them getting hospitalized/dying. Since that poster's children have already been infected several times by sars cov 2 without complications that already small risk becomes minute.

The likelihood in the UK of a child who attends school or nursery not having had it at least once is pretty much zero.

petej wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:47 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:53 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:25 pm Why would one not have their children vaccinated against Covid 19?

The point of having your kids vaccinated against omicron is to lower the (small) risk of them getting hospitalized/dying. Since that poster's children have already been infected several times by sars cov 2 without complications that already small risk becomes minute.

The likelihood in the UK of a child who attends school or nursery not having had it at least once is pretty much zero.

My daughter has tested regularly and has never had it.
Loads of her friends and both myself and my wife have had covid but somehow she has avoided it.

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:05 am

petej wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:47 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:53 am

The point of having your kids vaccinated against omicron is to lower the (small) risk of them getting hospitalized/dying. Since that poster's children have already been infected several times by sars cov 2 without complications that already small risk becomes minute.

The likelihood in the UK of a child who attends school or nursery not having had it at least once is pretty much zero.

My daughter has tested regularly and has never had it.
Loads of her friends and both myself and my wife have had covid but somehow she has avoided it.

If this was the case with me, I’d certainly be more pro vaccine for my daughter.

Has she been tested for antibodies, btw?

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:24 am The testing recently is definitely off as in people are missing the positive period as they test for a few days and negative, start feeling a bit better and stop but at that point are positive. Not sure why it's doing that

Think it varies so much person to person and different with Omicron. The +ve test window for lfts can be very, very short and could easily be missed if not testing daily.

petej wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:10 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:24 am The testing recently is definitely off as in people are missing the positive period as they test for a few days and negative, start feeling a bit better and stop but at that point are positive. Not sure why it's doing that

Think it varies so much person to person and different with Omicron. The +ve test window for lfts can be very, very short and could easily be missed if not testing daily.

With Omicron, everybody I know who has had it, including all the people I gave it to, had symptoms for at least 3 days before testing positive. This is the other way round to some of the previous variants. I was positive for 5 days.

Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:53 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:25 pm Why would one not have their children vaccinated against Covid 19?

The point of having your kids vaccinated against omicron is to lower the (small) risk of them getting hospitalized/dying. Since that poster's children have already been infected several times by sars cov 2 without complications that already small risk becomes minute.

This isn't quite right?

We vaccinate against covid, there isn't a specific vaccine for omicron specifically.

We know that there will continue to be different variants of covid. Omicron for example was suggested to be less dangerous than Delta because it affected the upper airways and not so much the lungs themselves compared with previous variants - however this led to greater issues for very young children as their airways are less well developed and they struggled more with omicron hence the rate of paediatric hospitalisations went up with the omicron variant. We don't know what future variants there will be nor if they will be more or less severe than omicron nor how they will present.

We know that immunity from natural infection is less strong and wanes more quickly than that from vaccination or indeed combined vaccination and infection. So vaccination will strengthen protection in those who have been naturally infected and this will last longer. It will also provide greater protection against new variants.

We also know that reinfection rate has increased with omicron than with other variants - current estimates are about 10% of cases, but probably higher, are reinfections. With omicron research suggests that those reinfected are more likely (c40%) to exhibit symptoms than if they had been reinfected with previous variants. Avoiding kids getting ill with a safe vaccine is a good thing?

Whilst we know that covid presents as a respiratory virus there is growing research evidence to suggest it is more than this and affects vascular system amongst others which in turns leads to pulmonary, cardiac, neurological issues for some patients, including a small number of children, many of which only appear some time after initial covid infection. Vaccines have been shown to reduce serious illness and hospitalisations so, even if number so children are small, it is still worthwhile vaccinating them - as we do for most other infectious diseases like measles, polio, etc for which only a small percentage of those infected develop a serious illness or die.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:46 pm

petej wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:10 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:24 am The testing recently is definitely off as in people are missing the positive period as they test for a few days and negative, start feeling a bit better and stop but at that point are positive. Not sure why it's doing that

Think it varies so much person to person and different with Omicron. The +ve test window for lfts can be very, very short and could easily be missed if not testing daily.

With Omicron, everybody I know who has had it, including all the people I gave it to, had symptoms for at least 3 days before testing positive. This is the other way round to some of the previous variants. I was positive for 5 days.

I had probably had Delta barely had symptoms when tested positive, then weak positive, then negative, then negative. Had symptoms for about a week after the 2nd negative

This is a bit worrying!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

You can find info on the Biobank here - https://www.ukbiobank.ac.uk

I've been a participant in the Biobank research since its inception in 2006/7 and in addition to the initial sessions when they do a whole range of tests, bloods, cognitive testing, sight, hearing, etc they also follow up with questionnaires re diet, mental health, cognitive testing, etc I have also been to the scanning centre in Newcastle twice for full day of scans - head, chest, abdomen MRIs, DEXA full body and main joints, ultrasounds of carotid artery, etc. They build up anonymised database of participants and allow access for a whole range of research projects. As the attached paper says they can use data from pre pandemic in order to make comparisons.

The findings suggest that covid has deleterious impact on the brain and larger cognitive decline than expected. As it says the longer term effects remain to be seen and they don't know if these will or can be reversed but the initial findings are very worrying indeed!

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:21 am This is a bit worrying!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

You can find info on the Biobank here - https://www.ukbiobank.ac.uk

I've been a participant in the Biobank research since its inception in 2006/7 and in addition to the initial sessions when they do a whole range of tests, bloods, cognitive testing, sight, hearing, etc they also follow up with questionnaires re diet, mental health, cognitive testing, etc I have also been to the scanning centre in Newcastle twice for full day of scans - head, chest, abdomen MRIs, DEXA full body and main joints, ultrasounds of carotid artery, etc. They build up anonymised database of participants and allow access for a whole range of research projects. As the attached paper says they can use data from pre pandemic in order to make comparisons.

The findings suggest that covid has deleterious impact on the brain and larger cognitive decline than expected. As it says the longer term effects remain to be seen and they don't know if these will or can be reversed but the initial findings are very worrying indeed!

So almost like a viral dementia?

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:24 am

Spoiler

Show

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:21 am This is a bit worrying!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

You can find info on the Biobank here - https://www.ukbiobank.ac.uk

I've been a participant in the Biobank research since its inception in 2006/7 and in addition to the initial sessions when they do a whole range of tests, bloods, cognitive testing, sight, hearing, etc they also follow up with questionnaires re diet, mental health, cognitive testing, etc I have also been to the scanning centre in Newcastle twice for full day of scans - head, chest, abdomen MRIs, DEXA full body and main joints, ultrasounds of carotid artery, etc. They build up anonymised database of participants and allow access for a whole range of research projects. As the attached paper says they can use data from pre pandemic in order to make comparisons.

The findings suggest that covid has deleterious impact on the brain and larger cognitive decline than expected. As it says the longer term effects remain to be seen and they don't know if these will or can be reversed but the initial findings are very worrying indeed!

So almost like a viral dementia?

It’s those bloody nanobots in the vaccine.

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:33 pm

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:24 am

Spoiler

Show

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:21 am This is a bit worrying!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

You can find info on the Biobank here - https://www.ukbiobank.ac.uk

I've been a participant in the Biobank research since its inception in 2006/7 and in addition to the initial sessions when they do a whole range of tests, bloods, cognitive testing, sight, hearing, etc they also follow up with questionnaires re diet, mental health, cognitive testing, etc I have also been to the scanning centre in Newcastle twice for full day of scans - head, chest, abdomen MRIs, DEXA full body and main joints, ultrasounds of carotid artery, etc. They build up anonymised database of participants and allow access for a whole range of research projects. As the attached paper says they can use data from pre pandemic in order to make comparisons.

The findings suggest that covid has deleterious impact on the brain and larger cognitive decline than expected. As it says the longer term effects remain to be seen and they don't know if these will or can be reversed but the initial findings are very worrying indeed!

So almost like a viral dementia?

It’s those bloody nanobots in the vaccine.

Not sure how this makes COVID unique considering the below.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... mory-loss/

petej wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:31 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:33 pm

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:24 am

Spoiler

Show

So almost like a viral dementia?

It’s those bloody nanobots in the vaccine.

Not sure how this makes COVID unique considering the below.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... mory-loss/

I suppose the difference is there is now strong evidence that the covid virus causes it in human beings and not just mice? Also not sure anyone said it was unique to covid, that seems to be a leap you've made in your own mind? However there now appears to be good clinical evidence emerging that covid leads to temporary and possibly/probably permanent cognitive degradation in some people who have had covid. Pretty worrying really?

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:01 pm

petej wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:31 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:33 pm

It’s those bloody nanobots in the vaccine.

Not sure how this makes COVID unique considering the below.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... mory-loss/

I suppose the difference is there is now strong evidence that the covid virus causes it in human beings and not just mice? Also not sure anyone said it was unique to covid, that seems to be a leap you've made in your own mind? However there now appears to be good clinical evidence emerging that covid leads to temporary and possibly/probably permanent cognitive degradation in some people who have had covid. Pretty worrying really?

Is the associated Covid brain shrinkage contributive to memory loss or is that a separate problem?

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:38 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:01 pm

petej wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:31 pm
Not sure how this makes COVID unique considering the below.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... mory-loss/

I suppose the difference is there is now strong evidence that the covid virus causes it in human beings and not just mice? Also not sure anyone said it was unique to covid, that seems to be a leap you've made in your own mind? However there now appears to be good clinical evidence emerging that covid leads to temporary and possibly/probably permanent cognitive degradation in some people who have had covid. Pretty worrying really?

Is the associated Covid brain shrinkage contributive to memory loss or is that a separate problem?

No idea sorry

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:01 pm

petej wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:31 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:33 pm

It’s those bloody nanobots in the vaccine.

Not sure how this makes COVID unique considering the below.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... mory-loss/

I suppose the difference is there is now strong evidence that the covid virus causes it in human beings and not just mice? Also not sure anyone said it was unique to covid, that seems to be a leap you've made in your own mind? However there now appears to be good clinical evidence emerging that covid leads to temporary and possibly/probably permanent cognitive degradation in some people who have had covid. Pretty worrying really?

Not really. Everytime I played rugby or football I degraded my mind and body. Still played though. To avoid getting infected by anything I would have to live in isolation ball which doesn't appeal. I almost feel like things like this aren't novel to COVID but more stuff that hasn't previously been investigated to that extent with other diseases.

petej wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:54 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:01 pm

petej wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:31 pm
Not sure how this makes COVID unique considering the below.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... mory-loss/

I suppose the difference is there is now strong evidence that the covid virus causes it in human beings and not just mice? Also not sure anyone said it was unique to covid, that seems to be a leap you've made in your own mind? However there now appears to be good clinical evidence emerging that covid leads to temporary and possibly/probably permanent cognitive degradation in some people who have had covid. Pretty worrying really?

Not really. Everytime I played rugby or football I degraded my mind and body. Still played though. To avoid getting infected by anything I would have to live in isolation ball which doesn't appeal. I almost feel like things like this aren't novel to COVID but more stuff that hasn't previously been investigated to that extent with other diseases.

Again no-one is saying you should avoid getting infected by anything or indeed live in an isolation ball - that's just nonsense. It is about being sensible about covid and try to avoid exposure where reasonable - wear a FFP2/3 mask, avoid indoor settings with poor ventilation, get vaccinated, etc. It ain't difficult but it is about trying to sway the odds more in our favour.

Football and rugby is a false equivalence - there are risks but there are also significant health benefits - I can't think of many health benefits from being infected by covid.? Those of us who played football and rugby knew about the risks we were taking and made our own risk assessments. As someone who was involved with kids rugby we did everything we could to minimise risks and indeed the rugby unions have very clear protocols for this. I also skied and mountain biked but again I did my own risk assessments and when skiing/biking with the kids chose the runs and slopes carefully. Problem with covid is we don't know the risks we are exposing ourselves, our families and others to, so in this case being more careful is just sensible.

The impact on the brain might not be unique to covid but if you have a virus that is as transmissible as omicron variant, and the ONS reckon that 1 in 13 roughly in the UK is currently infected, then that is a worry. Other viruses may have the same impact as covid on the brain but there are not many with the same level of transmission or that are not under control through PH measures such as mass vaccination ie measles. Even if a very small percentage of those infected with covid go onto to develop the loss of cognitive ability as suggested in the article then that will be a worryingly large number indeed! Even if vaccination provides protection there is still over 14 million people, including children, currently unvaccinated in the UK who may be at greater risk.

I had to search what one of those look like



Funnily enough, in the six weeks that I've lived in the city where I'm currently at, I've literally not seen a single person wear a mask.

It is about being sensible about covid and try to avoid exposure where reasonable - wear a FFP2/3 mask, avoid indoor settings with poor ventilation, get vaccinated, etc. It ain't difficult but it is about trying to sway the odds more in our favour.

Most of us have already had it and are well past following the above. And trying to rally everyone to avoid poorly ventilated places will be the death to some businesses.

Last time we had this conversation I suggested you lacked an end game. You responded with your end game was “continue to vaccinate” and “improve the vaccinations”. But continue and improve are not exactly well defined end points.

And let’s be honest, you’ll just then be carrying on with this mindset and worrying about the next variant irrespective of the current position.

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:57 pm
The impact on the brain might not be unique to covid but if you have a virus that is as transmissible as omicron variant, and the ONS reckon that 1 in 13 roughly in the UK is currently infected, then that is a worry. Other viruses may have the same impact as covid on the brain but there are not many with the same level of transmission or that are not under control through PH measures such as mass vaccination ie measles. Even if a very small percentage of those infected with covid go onto to develop the loss of cognitive ability as suggested in the article then that will be a worryingly large number indeed! Even if vaccination provides protection there is still over 14 million people, including children, currently unvaccinated in the UK who may be at greater risk.

I completely agree with you about trying to avoid to get the Covid as much as possible , plus being type A blood is putting me at a higher risk contracting the virus

I just read this article confirming the impact on the brain.

A new study published in Nature Communications has offered the most comprehensive investigation to date into the effects of COVID-19 on the brain. The study found SARS-CoV-2 infection, regardless of disease severity, can lead to neuroinflammation and small bleeds which may account for many of the neurological symptoms reported by patients.

The study was led by Tracey Fischer from the Tulane National Primate Research Center. Recognizing the potential future need to develop nonhuman primate models for COVID-19 Fischer’s research began early in pandemic.

Calculon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:19 pm I had to search what one of those look like



Funnily enough, in the six weeks that I've lived in the city where I'm currently at, I've literally not seen a single person wear a mask.

Where do you live?

Uzbekistan

Marylandolorian wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:47 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:57 pm
The impact on the brain might not be unique to covid but if you have a virus that is as transmissible as omicron variant, and the ONS reckon that 1 in 13 roughly in the UK is currently infected, then that is a worry. Other viruses may have the same impact as covid on the brain but there are not many with the same level of transmission or that are not under control through PH measures such as mass vaccination ie measles. Even if a very small percentage of those infected with covid go onto to develop the loss of cognitive ability as suggested in the article then that will be a worryingly large number indeed! Even if vaccination provides protection there is still over 14 million people, including children, currently unvaccinated in the UK who may be at greater risk.

I completely agree with you about trying to avoid to get the Covid as much as possible , plus being type A blood is putting me at a higher risk contracting the virus

I just read this article confirming the impact on the brain.

A new study published in Nature Communications has offered the most comprehensive investigation to date into the effects of COVID-19 on the brain. The study found SARS-CoV-2 infection, regardless of disease severity, can lead to neuroinflammation and small bleeds which may account for many of the neurological symptoms reported by patients.

The study was led by Tracey Fischer from the Tulane National Primate Research Center. Recognizing the potential future need to develop nonhuman primate models for COVID-19 Fischer’s research began early in pandemic.

I think as a result of the intense study into covid that we may end up finding that viral infections can often lead to degradation of brain function, either temporary or permanent. There will be a huge amount of research done on other things like post viral fatigue, ME etc as well (a lot of long covid looks like chronic fatigue). I already felt, and have bored several of my mates with this, that the 21st century is going to be the century of biotech. This will supercharge that research and really kick off stratified and personal treatments, antisenesence drugs, nanotech drugs and therapies etc. Kids born now will have an average life expectancy well in excess of 100 years, and those years will be good quality as well

Calculon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:40 pmUzbekistan

The other week I was the only person wearing a mask in Tesco. Last night when I went about 25% were wearing masks. People getting edgy again?

Well, we are going to have ahuge test of the efficacy of the vaccine over the next few days in our family.

My sister is quite crook (although the docs don't know what is causing it).

She's 45kgs and been a smoker for close to 60 years and has just caught covid. If she survives, I will be 150% convinced and then some.

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:07 pm

Calculon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:40 pmUzbekistan

The other week I was the only person wearing a mask in Tesco. Last night when I went about 25% were wearing masks. People getting edgy again?

95% of people here wear masks in public, including in supermarkets.

Kiwias wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:04 am

Grandpa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:07 pm

Calculon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:40 pmUzbekistan

The other week I was the only person wearing a mask in Tesco. Last night when I went about 25% were wearing masks. People getting edgy again?

95% of people here wear masks in public, including in supermarkets.

Do you think they'll ever go maskless again?

Grandpa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:20 am
Howdo you think they'll ever go maskless again?

Japanese people tend to be good and wear masks when they have colds and flu.

They haven't heard of Bimbot

mat the expat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:23 am

Grandpa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:20 am
Howdo you think they'll ever go maskless again?

Japanese people tend to be good and wear masks when they have colds and flu.

They haven't heard of Bimbot

Yeah, even in Thailand a lot of people wore masks pre-pandemic. I always thought it was for pollution reasons. But was inside as well.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:45 pm Well, we are going to have ahuge test of the efficacy of the vaccine over the next few days in our family.

My sister is quite crook (although the docs don't know what is causing it).

She's 45kgs and been a smoker for close to 60 years and has just caught covid. If she survives, I will be 150% convinced and then some.

Fingers crossed Enz, hoping for the best

Jambanja wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:34 am

Enzedder wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:45 pm Well, we are going to have ahuge test of the efficacy of the vaccine over the next few days in our family.

My sister is quite crook (although the docs don't know what is causing it).

She's 45kgs and been a smoker for close to 60 years and has just caught covid. If she survives, I will be 150% convinced and then some.

Fingers crossed Enz, hoping for the best

Yeah good luck Enz. Are you saying she was crook even before Covid? Sounds like my dad.

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:46 pm

It is about being sensible about covid and try to avoid exposure where reasonable - wear a FFP2/3 mask, avoid indoor settings with poor ventilation, get vaccinated, etc. It ain't difficult but it is about trying to sway the odds more in our favour.

Most of us have already had it and are well past following the above. And trying to rally everyone to avoid poorly ventilated places will be the death to some businesses.

Last time we had this conversation I suggested you lacked an end game. You responded with your end game was “continue to vaccinate” and “improve the vaccinations”. But continue and improve are not exactly well defined end points.

And let’s be honest, you’ll just then be carrying on with this mindset and worrying about the next variant irrespective of the current position.

Reinfection rate of omicron is well over 10% and rising - even if you have had covid you will likely catch it again if you take no mitigations. Protection from natural infection wanes quicker than from vaccination/vaccination + infection. There is no guarantee that reinfection from a new variant will not lead to more serious symptoms or hospitalisation.

So your end game is a constant cycle of mass infection by new variants of which some might not be well protected by the vaccine, some will be 'milder' but some will be more 'severe', some of which will lead to more hospitalisations, deaths and constant interruption to businesses and the economy due to high levels of absence, loss of public confidence and an NHS constantly full of covid cases and unable to do the routine cases such as hips, knees, etc? As infections go up long covid cases will increase leading to further pressure on NHS and social care systems and increased sickness absences for businesses. Doesn't sound like an end game I want to be part of. Your 'do nothing' end game depends upon the mistaken belief that covid will naturally become milder and eventually end up like flu? Unfortunately science doesn't back this up - I am not sure polio, measles, whooping cough, tetanus, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, HPV, etc got any milder, we just learnt to control them through vaccination and PH measures.

My 'end game' was to try and limit community transmission in order to buy time for vaccinations to be fully rolled out and to buy time for the medics/scientists to develop further vaccines and meds which will provide greater protection - this is well underway and from what I hear this will be within the next 12 months. My end game is that a covid vaccination will be administered alongside all the other vaccines we give kids from birth. In the meantime relying purely on vaccinations as a PH strategy will lead to greater chance of lock downs and greater disruptions to the economy - look at what is happening at the moment - disruption to flights, cruise boats not allowed to dock in other countries, NHS overloaded, more patients that at any other time in the pandemic and at the point of breakdown, NHS waiting times and lists growing impossible to recover levels, 15% + covid absence of teachers in schools, classes and year groups being sent home, offices once again moving to WFH, etc. Things will get better in the summer months but there will be waves. Having a vaccine only strategy in the middle of a pandemic is never, ever, ever going to work - we need a multi layer approach of vaccines plus simple PH mitigations ie masks, ventilation, distancing, etc, in order to keep the economy going.

We both want to avoid lock downs however the current UK Gov strategy, or lack of one, is just creating a lock down in all but name but without the Gov getting the 'blame' for it or having to support the economy. If some businesses have ventilation issues then why not Gov grants for mobile HEPA ventilation systems (they only cost a few hundred quid) which can dramatically reduce covid spread in enclosed spaces? There is now a large body of evidence, including use in school classrooms, that shows clearly that they work very effectively, are low cost and as well as stopping covid transmission will also help stop flu, colds etc spreading in these environments as well. This shouldn't be difficult! If we want to live with covid this doesn't mean doing nothing and letting it run wild as it as at the moment - we will end up in an endless cycle of infection, hospitalisations, deaths and lock downs in all but name. We need vaccinations plus PH mitigations to try and suppress community transmission if we want to 'learn how to live with it' - you can't just wish it away by ignoring it.

Calculon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:19 pm I had to search what one of those look like



Funnily enough, in the six weeks that I've lived in the city where I'm currently at, I've literally not seen a single person wear a mask.

You can buy FFP2 or FFP3 masks on Amazon - there are lots of shapes and designs - have a look. They are more comfortable to wear than surgical masks and fit better around the nose and moth. They are more expensive that surgical masks. Both give over 90% filtration rates - FFP3 highest. They are very common in number of industries ie building trade and are recommended by HSE in UK for lots of jobs which generate dust/particles, etc. If I was in a job in an enclosed area and/or with lots of people contact I would recommend using these. Research shows far lower levels of transmission when these are used.

The clever thing about these masks is that the filter materials are electrostatically charged so they attract particles/viruses and prevent them feeding through to be inhaled.

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:28 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:19 pm I had to search what one of those look like



Funnily enough, in the six weeks that I've lived in the city where I'm currently at, I've literally not seen a single person wear a mask.

You can buy FFP2 or FFP3 masks on Amazon - there are lots of shapes and designs - have a look. They are more comfortable to wear than surgical masks and fit better around the nose and moth. They are more expensive that surgical masks. Both give over 90% filtration rates - FFP3 highest. They are very common in number of industries ie building trade and are recommended by HSE in UK for lots of jobs which generate dust/particles, etc. If I was in a job in an enclosed area and/or with lots of people contact I would recommend using these. Research shows far lower levels of transmission when these are used.

The clever thing about these masks is that the filter materials are electrostatically charged so they attract particles/viruses and prevent them feeding through to be inhaled.

However if not Fit tested to the individual, the mask doesn't really do what you suggest. Also I dont really think that FFP3 masks are generally more confortable than a normal surgical maak tbh.

I've had to wear ffp2/ffp3 masks all day every day in some jobs I've had, so wearing one on a train journey, say from London to Edinburgh is small potatoes as far as I'm concerned.

The ffp3 ones are used in asbestos removal, dust from that is not something you want to get in your lungs and I recall reading that they are the best for self-protection from covid, whilst surgical masks and cloth masks are really to stop/minimise you transmitting infection.

C69 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:04 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:28 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:19 pm I had to search what one of those look like



Funnily enough, in the six weeks that I've lived in the city where I'm currently at, I've literally not seen a single person wear a mask.

You can buy FFP2 or FFP3 masks on Amazon - there are lots of shapes and designs - have a look. They are more comfortable to wear than surgical masks and fit better around the nose and moth. They are more expensive that surgical masks. Both give over 90% filtration rates - FFP3 highest. They are very common in number of industries ie building trade and are recommended by HSE in UK for lots of jobs which generate dust/particles, etc. If I was in a job in an enclosed area and/or with lots of people contact I would recommend using these. Research shows far lower levels of transmission when these are used.

The clever thing about these masks is that the filter materials are electrostatically charged so they attract particles/viruses and prevent them feeding through to be inhaled.

However if not Fit tested to the individual, the mask doesn't really do what you suggest. Also I dont really think that FFP3 masks are generally more confortable than a normal surgical maak tbh.

Agreed you will not get the full benefit of their protection if not properly fit tested but they will still provide immeasurable more protection than surgical or cloth masks. I find my FFP2 mask far more comfortable and better fitting that a surgical mask.