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Tichtheid
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The league fixtures are out - Embra


The Weedge

KingBlairhorn
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Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:06 pm
I like neeps wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:19 am
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:09 am I wonder if Kinghorn will now start all the summer games, just to get his eye in? Or at least the first three. Before Hogg's retirement I would have though both Kinghorn and Smith would have had a decent amount of game time. I think this also moves Healy up a rung, assuming Hastings is still injured.
I presume Smith and Kinghorn will start two each. But as said not too sure what we've ordained someone starting 15 who hasn't played there for two years and was moved to 10 by the national coach over someone who has played 15 for two years at a high level including for Scotland in his limited appearances.

I think it's a classic case of we haven't seen a player for some time (Kinghorn at 15) and in the culture wars of his he's not a 10 has been elevated to a level of performance he'd not shown at 15 for a few years.

I was more going on the fact that Kinghorn subbed for Hogg three times in the Six Nations and once for Steyn before starting at ten against Italy, also on the fact that he played really well when he came on.

I know it really rankles with many Glasgow fans but Townsend rates Kinghorn.

I like Smith and I hope he and Kinghorn push each other for the jersey, but as long as Townsend is selecting the team I expect Kinghorn to be in or around it, no matter where he's playing for Edinburgh
He's kind of a reverse Beauden Barrett, very good at fullback, very good at fly-half. I think his best position is 15 (while Barrett is best at 10) but would not be unhappy to see him in either shirt depending on the opposition.
Biffer
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Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:16 pm The league fixtures are out - Embra


The Weedge

So on 28th October we get to go to watch Edinburgh at home at 5 pm before watching Scotland in the World Cup final at 8pm? Sounds like a good day out.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
robmatic
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I like neeps wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:19 am
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:09 am I wonder if Kinghorn will now start all the summer games, just to get his eye in? Or at least the first three. Before Hogg's retirement I would have though both Kinghorn and Smith would have had a decent amount of game time. I think this also moves Healy up a rung, assuming Hastings is still injured.
I presume Smith and Kinghorn will start two each. But as said not too sure what we've ordained someone starting 15 who hasn't played there for two years and was moved to 10 by the national coach over someone who has played 15 for two years at a high level including for Scotland in his limited appearances.

I think it's a classic case of we haven't seen a player for some time (Kinghorn at 15) and in the culture wars of his he's not a 10 has been elevated to a level of performance he'd not shown at 15 for a few years.
Kinghorn's played almost a hundred pro games at 15 so I'd assume he'd be pretty comfortable playing there despite not playing there much for Edinburgh the last couple of seasons. Indeed, he looked assured there in his sub appearances during the 6 Nations.
weegie01
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Of the available 15s, Kinghorn is the best by a mile.

He terrified the opposition when he came on the scene and scored tries that any fullback in world rugby would be proud off.

Then he lost his way. A combination on unsympathetic coaching, and a self confessed loss of focus as he spent most of his time spending his substantial salary setting up a business saw his performances drop off massively.

Then when he was starting to show what he could do at 15 again (which might have had something to do with Cockerill telling him he was poor value for money), he started getting played at 10.

He has a huge boot, is very, very quick (though better top speed than acceleration), and has an eye for the gap. Passing is not shabby either.

Left at 15 I honestly think we'd shortly be seeing him as one of the best ever. Kinghorn backed up Smith is an excellent combo. Edinburgh then have issues about who would play where.
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robmatic wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:31 pm
I like neeps wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:19 am
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:09 am I wonder if Kinghorn will now start all the summer games, just to get his eye in? Or at least the first three. Before Hogg's retirement I would have though both Kinghorn and Smith would have had a decent amount of game time. I think this also moves Healy up a rung, assuming Hastings is still injured.
I presume Smith and Kinghorn will start two each. But as said not too sure what we've ordained someone starting 15 who hasn't played there for two years and was moved to 10 by the national coach over someone who has played 15 for two years at a high level including for Scotland in his limited appearances.

I think it's a classic case of we haven't seen a player for some time (Kinghorn at 15) and in the culture wars of his he's not a 10 has been elevated to a level of performance he'd not shown at 15 for a few years.
Kinghorn's played almost a hundred pro games at 15 so I'd assume he'd be pretty comfortable playing there despite not playing there much for Edinburgh the last couple of seasons. Indeed, he looked assured there in his sub appearances during the 6 Nations.
I don't disagree he's comfortable, my thoughts are that we're two years removed from him playing there and being so meh the national coach decided to move him. And we've forgotten he's been meh because we all got so animated by the move to 10.
Biffer
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He didn't get moved because he was meh, that's not how I remember it.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Jock42
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I like neeps wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:03 pm
robmatic wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:31 pm
I like neeps wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:19 am

I presume Smith and Kinghorn will start two each. But as said not too sure what we've ordained someone starting 15 who hasn't played there for two years and was moved to 10 by the national coach over someone who has played 15 for two years at a high level including for Scotland in his limited appearances.

I think it's a classic case of we haven't seen a player for some time (Kinghorn at 15) and in the culture wars of his he's not a 10 has been elevated to a level of performance he'd not shown at 15 for a few years.
Kinghorn's played almost a hundred pro games at 15 so I'd assume he'd be pretty comfortable playing there despite not playing there much for Edinburgh the last couple of seasons. Indeed, he looked assured there in his sub appearances during the 6 Nations.
I don't disagree he's comfortable, my thoughts are that we're two years removed from him playing there and being so meh the national coach decided to move him. And we've forgotten he's been meh because we all got so animated by the move to 10.
I'd disagree with that. I see it as trying to have one of your more talented players, either starting or off the bench, in an influential position. You don't drop Hastings for a meh out of position player.
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Biffer wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:22 pm He didn't get moved because he was meh, that's not how I remember it.
Annoyingly there isn't good data anymore because the URC changes every season. But he definitely burst onto the scene as a phenomenon. Then stagnated significantly. Would be great if he turned back into the player he was at 21/22 again. But he was probably a league average fullback when Toonie made the switch.

He's certainly not as good as Boffeli, Graham, vdm. So I'm very interested to see how much game time he gets for Edinburgh next year.
Big D
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There is nuance to the Kinghorn 10/15 thing.

- when he broke through the Edinburgh game plan was "Give it to Blair or Bill" and teams worked that out (understandably so).
- Russell at varying points might have been finished with Scotland leaving not any real depth at 10.
- Duhan wasn't expected back which creates a potential head ache.
- Edinburgh played good rugby in 21/22 with BK at 10.
- Healy could easily have stayed with Munster leaving Edinburgh short at 10.
- Hogg has retired early which wouldn't have been planned for.
- the move to 10 was 100% with the world cup and depth at 10 issues in mind
-
Biffer
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Big D wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:32 pm There is nuance to the Kinghorn 10/15 thing.

- when he broke through the Edinburgh game plan was "Give it to Blair or Bill" and teams worked that out (understandably so).
- Russell at varying points might have been finished with Scotland leaving not any real depth at 10.
- Duhan wasn't expected back which creates a potential head ache.
- Edinburgh played good rugby in 21/22 with BK at 10.
- Healy could easily have stayed with Munster leaving Edinburgh short at 10.
- Hogg has retired early which wouldn't have been planned for.
- the move to 10 was 100% with the world cup and depth at 10 issues in mind
-
Pretty much sums it up. We're not exactly blessed with tens. At least we recognise that now, and we're trying to get talented guys to try ten, instead of moving them away from there, like we did with mossy.

We did try it occasionally with Hogg.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
robmatic
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I like neeps wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:15 pm
Biffer wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:22 pm He didn't get moved because he was meh, that's not how I remember it.
Annoyingly there isn't good data anymore because the URC changes every season. But he definitely burst onto the scene as a phenomenon. Then stagnated significantly. Would be great if he turned back into the player he was at 21/22 again. But he was probably a league average fullback when Toonie made the switch.

He's certainly not as good as Boffeli, Graham, vdm. So I'm very interested to see how much game time he gets for Edinburgh next year.
You are right about his form not being as scintillating before he made his switch but let's be fair to the guy, everybody in that team was looking average at best in that last season of Cockerill's and especially the backs.
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Tichtheid
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I think the 2020/2021 season was a bad one for BK, the '21 6N was the only one where he didn't play since his debut for Scotland.

However, what we've got now is the option of Finn and Kinghorn as first receivers on either side of where the ball is and now Kinghorn won't be doing it as a fullback filling in - his third try against Italy this year showed what we might have in store.
I'm quite excited about the prospect - especially when you can have Huw Jones and Duhan on one side outside the first receiver and Tuipolotu/Redpath and Graham on the other.

Most defences would be keichin their breeks looking at that coming at them with quick ball.
Slick
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I like neeps wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:03 pm
robmatic wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:31 pm
I like neeps wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:19 am

I presume Smith and Kinghorn will start two each. But as said not too sure what we've ordained someone starting 15 who hasn't played there for two years and was moved to 10 by the national coach over someone who has played 15 for two years at a high level including for Scotland in his limited appearances.

I think it's a classic case of we haven't seen a player for some time (Kinghorn at 15) and in the culture wars of his he's not a 10 has been elevated to a level of performance he'd not shown at 15 for a few years.
Kinghorn's played almost a hundred pro games at 15 so I'd assume he'd be pretty comfortable playing there despite not playing there much for Edinburgh the last couple of seasons. Indeed, he looked assured there in his sub appearances during the 6 Nations.
I don't disagree he's comfortable, my thoughts are that we're two years removed from him playing there and being so meh the national coach decided to move him. And we've forgotten he's been meh because we all got so animated by the move to 10.
I agree. A great talent who has too many flaws to nail down a position. I’m not sure Toony does rate BK at 15. I think he recognises a flawed genius and wanted to try to get him into a team, bit it hasn’t worked out- I think he will prefer Smith

Hogg leaving has left a massive hole with no easily identifiable replacement imo
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Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:13 pm I think the 2020/2021 season was a bad one for BK, the '21 6N was the only one where he didn't play since his debut for Scotland.

However, what we've got now is the option of Finn and Kinghorn as first receivers on either side of where the ball is and now Kinghorn won't be doing it as a fullback filling in - his third try against Italy this year showed what we might have in store.
I'm quite excited about the prospect - especially when you can have Huw Jones and Duhan on one side outside the first receiver and Tuipolotu/Redpath and Graham on the other.

Most defences would be keichin their breeks looking at that coming at them with quick ball.
The reason we all think Scotland will be going home after four games nicely summed up in three words.

Anyone seen the Springboks line-up for the weekend :shock:
Slick
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clydecloggie wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:10 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:13 pm I think the 2020/2021 season was a bad one for BK, the '21 6N was the only one where he didn't play since his debut for Scotland.

However, what we've got now is the option of Finn and Kinghorn as first receivers on either side of where the ball is and now Kinghorn won't be doing it as a fullback filling in - his third try against Italy this year showed what we might have in store.
I'm quite excited about the prospect - especially when you can have Huw Jones and Duhan on one side outside the first receiver and Tuipolotu/Redpath and Graham on the other.

Most defences would be keichin their breeks looking at that coming at them with quick ball.
The reason we all think Scotland will be going home after four games nicely summed up in three words.

Anyone seen the Springboks line-up for the weekend :shock:
Not to mention our back 3 defence is significantly reduced without Hogg there
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Tichtheid
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Aye maybe we should send a youth team to France and concentrate on Edinburgh and Glasgow getting a good start in the league right enough.

Nah, we've got a good team but we've got a shite pool draw due to the decision to set the seedings so far out from the tournament. We are ranked 5 in the world just now and I'd really fancy our chances against Australia, England, Wales and Argentina, the teams below us.

I'm pretty sanguine about it all, tbh, I don't think we have anything to lose given the strength of South Africa and Ireland at the moment. Having said that, I don't think the results in our games against them are foregone conclusions.
Slick
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Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:39 pm Aye maybe we should send a youth team to France and concentrate on Edinburgh and Glasgow getting a good start in the league right enough.

Nah, we've got a good team but we've got a shite pool draw due to the decision to set the seedings so far out from the tournament. We are ranked 5 in the world just now and I'd really fancy our chances against Australia, England, Wales and Argentina, the teams below us.

I'm pretty sanguine about it all, tbh, I don't think we have anything to lose given the strength of South Africa and Ireland at the moment. Having said that, I don't think the results in our games against them are foregone conclusions.
Totally agree, we are a decent team and 5th in the world deservedly. I genuinely think we might cause an upset, no team will take us lightly.

In saying that, I think losing Hogg is fairly disastrous and will have a much bigger impact than many think
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Tichtheid
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Slick wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:59 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:39 pm Aye maybe we should send a youth team to France and concentrate on Edinburgh and Glasgow getting a good start in the league right enough.

Nah, we've got a good team but we've got a shite pool draw due to the decision to set the seedings so far out from the tournament. We are ranked 5 in the world just now and I'd really fancy our chances against Australia, England, Wales and Argentina, the teams below us.

I'm pretty sanguine about it all, tbh, I don't think we have anything to lose given the strength of South Africa and Ireland at the moment. Having said that, I don't think the results in our games against them are foregone conclusions.
Totally agree, we are a decent team and 5th in the world deservedly. I genuinely think we might cause an upset, no team will take us lightly.

In saying that, I think losing Hogg is fairly disastrous and will have a much bigger impact than many think


I don't want to take anything from Hoggy as I agree with the assessments we've had on his impact on Scottish rugby since breaking into the side.

However, he's not been peak Hoggy for a couple of years, Exeter fans on another forum have been saying it for at least 18 months. It's no sleight on him that injury and wear and tear have taken their toll, it's the price of doing business as a professional rugby player and he's lasted a lot longer than many.

IMO, the step down to the next player is not so much a falling off a cliff now. I think Smith and Kinghorn can be very very good players, even if they are not knocking on the door of a World XV selection.
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Biffer wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:22 pm He didn't get moved because he was meh, that's not how I remember it.
Didn’t watch him as much for Edinburgh, but for Scotland he never really got much of a shot at 15 because Hoggy was in the way and the captain. He can’t have started more than a few games at 15. He was usually on the wing until he was moved.

Hoggy is a loss - a player like him always would be - but he hasn’t been at his best for a year or more and I was starting to think his place in the team was under threat for the first time since he broke through. The drop from peak Hogg to green Kinghorn (Greenhorn?) would have been severe, but the drop from declining Hogg to seasoned Kinghorn is nothing like as bad.
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There is no denying that Hoggy hasn’t had the same explosive speed in attack over the last couple of seasons but for me the team benefited from his rugby brain and that spiral kick of his, he will be sorely missed.

Last year we had the displeasure of sitting through the France match at Murrayfield listening to the lads behind slagging him off for the entire game. Real bitter and twisted stuff, the stuff football fans reserve for a star player in their bitterest rivals team. To make matters worse they were from Hawick 😳

Can only think a lot of is jealousy of a local boy come good !!
Slick
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Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:10 pm
Slick wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:59 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:39 pm Aye maybe we should send a youth team to France and concentrate on Edinburgh and Glasgow getting a good start in the league right enough.

Nah, we've got a good team but we've got a shite pool draw due to the decision to set the seedings so far out from the tournament. We are ranked 5 in the world just now and I'd really fancy our chances against Australia, England, Wales and Argentina, the teams below us.

I'm pretty sanguine about it all, tbh, I don't think we have anything to lose given the strength of South Africa and Ireland at the moment. Having said that, I don't think the results in our games against them are foregone conclusions.
Totally agree, we are a decent team and 5th in the world deservedly. I genuinely think we might cause an upset, no team will take us lightly.

In saying that, I think losing Hogg is fairly disastrous and will have a much bigger impact than many think


I don't want to take anything from Hoggy as I agree with the assessments we've had on his impact on Scottish rugby since breaking into the side.

However, he's not been peak Hoggy for a couple of years, Exeter fans on another forum have been saying it for at least 18 months. It's no sleight on him that injury and wear and tear have taken their toll, it's the price of doing business as a professional rugby player and he's lasted a lot longer than many.

IMO, the step down to the next player is not so much a falling off a cliff now. I think Smith and Kinghorn can be very very good players, even if they are not knocking on the door of a World XV selection.
I think more from a leadership and organisational view point. Hogg leads that back line, particularly in defence, from 15 and I think that’s what is going to be really missed. I think the more prosaic side of his game is not acknowledged as much as it should be.

I agree we will be fine with BK and Smith going forward, 2 very good players, my worry is that the adjustment will be horrible
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Biffer
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We'll miss Hogg for sure, but as others have said, the drop off isn't as big a sit once was. Be interesting to see what BK can do if he knows the shirt is his now.

Also, in a way I'm glad he's gone now-ish. I wouldn't have wanted him hanging on too long like Halfpenny did for Wales.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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I don't really understand why the gap is smaller now then 4-5 years ago when Kinghorn was playing weekly at full back to a high standard?
Simian
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I like neeps wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:38 pm I don't really understand why the gap is smaller now then 4-5 years ago when Kinghorn was playing weekly at full back to a high standard?
For me it’s because Hogg hasn’t been playing as well as he was 4 - 5 years ago, BK looks better than he did then (I thought he played better in the 6ns than he ever has at the level), and because, in Smith, we now have another realistic option there.
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I like neeps wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:38 pm I don't really understand why the gap is smaller now then 4-5 years ago when Kinghorn was playing weekly at full back to a high standard?
Because Hogg isn’t the same player he was 2 years ago, let alone 4-5.
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Yr Alban wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:55 pm
I like neeps wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:38 pm I don't really understand why the gap is smaller now then 4-5 years ago when Kinghorn was playing weekly at full back to a high standard?
Because Hogg isn’t the same player he was 2 years ago, let alone 4-5.
Neither is Kinghorn.. His performances were a lot better 206-18 than to date at 15.
Biffer
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I like neeps wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:04 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:55 pm
I like neeps wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:38 pm I don't really understand why the gap is smaller now then 4-5 years ago when Kinghorn was playing weekly at full back to a high standard?
Because Hogg isn’t the same player he was 2 years ago, let alone 4-5.
Neither is Kinghorn.. His performances were a lot better 206-18 than to date at 15.
Don’t think that’s a fair reflection of Kinghorn’s last eighteen months.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Biffer wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:07 pm
I like neeps wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:04 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:55 pm

Because Hogg isn’t the same player he was 2 years ago, let alone 4-5.
Neither is Kinghorn.. His performances were a lot better 206-18 than to date at 15.
Don’t think that’s a fair reflection of Kinghorn’s last eighteen months.
Yes he's been I think very good considering he's learning a different position.
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Wondering what the chances are that the try-scoring record might be broken again in the next few years.

Huw Jones has 16 tries from 36 caps and is 29.
Blair Kinghorn has 13 tries from 43 caps and is 26.
Darcy Graham has 16 tries from 33 caps and is 26.
Duhan van der Merwe has 17 tries from 28 caps and is 28.

Jones has a remarkable scoring rate, but is probably out of time now - it’s a shame he spent so long in the international wilderness.
Blair has the lowest strike rate of the three but has started way fewer games.
I think it’s a contest between Duhan and Darcy. Both are more or less nailed on starters at the moment. Their strike rate is similar, but Darcy is younger. Which is likely to fade sooner - Darcy’s pace or Duhan’s power?
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Simian
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Biffer wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:07 pm
I like neeps wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:04 pm
Yr Alban wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:55 pm

Because Hogg isn’t the same player he was 2 years ago, let alone 4-5.
Neither is Kinghorn.. His performances were a lot better 206-18 than to date at 15.
Don’t think that’s a fair reflection of Kinghorn’s last eighteen months.
Yeah. To me that seems a really odd view of how he's gone recently.
Biffer
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Yr Alban wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:16 pm Wondering what the chances are that the try-scoring record might be broken again in the next few years.

Huw Jones has 16 tries from 36 caps and is 29.
Blair Kinghorn has 13 tries from 43 caps and is 26.
Darcy Graham has 16 tries from 33 caps and is 26.
Duhan van der Merwe has 17 tries from 28 caps and is 28.

Jones has a remarkable scoring rate, but is probably out of time now - it’s a shame he spent so long in the international wilderness.
Blair has the lowest strike rate of the three but has started way fewer games.
I think it’s a contest between Duhan and Darcy. Both are more or less nailed on starters at the moment. Their strike rate is similar, but Darcy is younger. Which is likely to fade sooner - Darcy’s pace or Duhan’s power?
I think Graham and van der Merwe will both break it, barring injury. Kinghorn will get pretty close too.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
KingBlairhorn
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Yr Alban wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:16 pm Wondering what the chances are that the try-scoring record might be broken again in the next few years.

Huw Jones has 16 tries from 36 caps and is 29.
Blair Kinghorn has 13 tries from 43 caps and is 26.
Darcy Graham has 16 tries from 33 caps and is 26.
Duhan van der Merwe has 17 tries from 28 caps and is 28.

Jones has a remarkable scoring rate, but is probably out of time now - it’s a shame he spent so long in the international wilderness.
Blair has the lowest strike rate of the three but has started way fewer games.
I think it’s a contest between Duhan and Darcy. Both are more or less nailed on starters at the moment. Their strike rate is similar, but Darcy is younger. Which is likely to fade sooner - Darcy’s pace or Duhan’s power?
Duhan is much more robust than Darcy so will be the higher scorer of the two all things being equal. I think Duhan can go longer too, even if he loses his pace he'll still score the odd try by sheer brute force. I'm pretty confident Duhan has another WC cycle in him so he can realistically expect 30-40 more caps and maybe 10-15 more tries.

I have to admit it's a bit of a worry we don't have any obvious young wingers waiting to break through in the 20-25 YO age bracket.
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KingBlairhorn wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:52 pm

I have to admit it's a bit of a worry we don't have any obvious young wingers waiting to break through in the 20-25 YO age bracket.
Have you looked around Dunedin or Pretoria?
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Sandstorm wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 3:00 pm
KingBlairhorn wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:52 pm

I have to admit it's a bit of a worry we don't have any obvious young wingers waiting to break through in the 20-25 YO age bracket.
Have you looked around Dunedin or Pretoria?
That is completely unfair. We are also interested in Queensland and southern England.
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Tichtheid
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I think Embra are quite excited about Jacob Henry (22), he's just returned from injury. Kyle Rowe is 25 and Ollie Smith (22) could certainly do a turn on the wing.
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Tichtheid wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 4:41 pm I think Embra are quite excited about Jacob Henry (22), he's just returned from injury. Kyle Rowe is 25 and Ollie Smith (22) could certainly do a turn on the wing.
Exactly. Just because KingBlairhorn hasn’t seen them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Also Finn Douglas.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Yr Alban
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Solid opening win for the U20s in the pretend tournament. Let in a fair few points after HT, but they were about five miles ahead by then.
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KingBlairhorn
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Biffer wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:55 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 4:41 pm I think Embra are quite excited about Jacob Henry (22), he's just returned from injury. Kyle Rowe is 25 and Ollie Smith (22) could certainly do a turn on the wing.
Exactly. Just because KingBlairhorn hasn’t seen them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Also Finn Douglas.
The issue is that I HAVE seen most of them and unfortunately I’ve not seen any that I think will be international class wingers. I mean Jacob Henry is a 22 yo winger with zero professional appearances, he’s the same age as Rees-Zammit (100 pro appearances including 25 for Wales and Lions tour), Dumortier (50 pro appearances including 5 French caps), Fainga'anuku (100 pro appearances and several AB caps), Murley (100 pro appearances and several England caps), Nawaqanitawase (50 pro appearances and several Australian caps and so on.

The point is, I am well aware of the young players coming through and have watched most of them live or on TV. None of them are in my view anywhere near the level of their peers playing international rugby. It is concerning.
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Tichtheid
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I don’t recall seeing Henry play but he’s been injured for a long time, Embra ditched Hoyland, Blain and Owsley whilst offering Henry a contract so they must see something in him

Rowe was very good and well worth his place on the Scotland tour before a year long injury put him out of commission

Smith is definitely in contention for a place in the world cup 23
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