NPR

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:05 pm It was absolutely infuriating watching it.

Time after time with stupid, low percentage kicking options in their half off decent ball.

petej wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:21 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:05 pm It was absolutely infuriating watching it.

Time after time with stupid, low percentage kicking options in their half off decent ball.

The frustrating thing is we will never see Lawrence or Kelly at 12 with Smith or Ford. At which point stick with Farrell at 10 and accept he is a coaches dream because he sticks to the plan regardless of situation. Making Farrell captain is a big mistake. The kicks are good when you have an advantage or off poor ball. The inability to get our back three players involved was depressing.

For Smith it is a bit sad. Trying too hard. If post world cup Farrell continues he should go to France for a couple years.

Sinkers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:15 am I was quite optimistic last weekend - at least we seemed to want to play a bit even if there was loads to work on

Please don’t tell me we’ve already gone back to a time where I wake up in the morning, check a few comments around the web and then decide I can’t be arsed to watch the game because it will be a cancerous bore fest of anti-rugby??

Ovals wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:57 am

Sinkers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:15 am I was quite optimistic last weekend - at least we seemed to want to play a bit even if there was loads to work on

Please don’t tell me we’ve already gone back to a time where I wake up in the morning, check a few comments around the web and then decide I can’t be arsed to watch the game because it will be a cancerous bore fest of anti-rugby??

I think you're expecting too much too soon. Without a forwards platform, a decent set piece, maul and defence, there's no platform for the coaches to build on. The kicking in there 22 was incredibly frustrating - but at least they now have something to work with. I'd be disappointed if that was the limit of their expectations but this was yet another new backline combo that they'd had just a week to work with.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:22 am A group of pro players being able to hold onto the ball and patiently try to explore any potential gaps shouldn't fall under 'expecting too much'

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:03 pm Two weeks running the opposition have scored a try where there's been a hint (nothing more) of obstruction. Why aren't we smarter? Faz should have hit the deck like a sniper had got him and Cole and another (forget who) could have milked what happened yesterday given how soft the obstruction by Lawrence had been in the first half. Strikes me both France and Ireland would have at least forced the ref into a series of replays, we just meekly get on with it.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:03 pm Two weeks running the opposition have scored a try where there's been a hint (nothing more) of obstruction. Why aren't we smarter? Faz should have hit the deck like a sniper had got him and Cole and another (forget who) could have milked what happened yesterday given how soft the obstruction by Lawrence had been in the first half. Strikes me both France and Ireland would have at least forced the ref into a series of replays, we just meekly get on with it.

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:08 pm Lawes and T Curry apparently going to be fit for Wales... going to make it interesting in terms of selection.

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:25 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:08 pm Lawes and T Curry apparently going to be fit for Wales... going to make it interesting in terms of selection.

I wouldn’t add either of them to the squad until they’ve played a couple of Premier matches

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:25 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:08 pm Lawes and T Curry apparently going to be fit for Wales... going to make it interesting in terms of selection.

I wouldn’t add either of them to the squad until they’ve played a couple of Premier matches

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:44 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:25 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:08 pm Lawes and T Curry apparently going to be fit for Wales... going to make it interesting in terms of selection.

I wouldn’t add either of them to the squad until they’ve played a couple of Premier matches

Definitely. Lawes has barely played this season, I don't really see that it'd be in his interest to rush him back for a big test. Let him find his feet with Saints again and hopefully he can stay fit for the World Cup. Curry's been off his best for a while. Don't see that there's a need to have him involved in the tournament at all, not while Willis and Earl are going well.

Benny The Ball wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:34 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:44 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:25 pm
I wouldn’t add either of them to the squad until they’ve played a couple of Premier matches

Definitely. Lawes has barely played this season, I don't really see that it'd be in his interest to rush him back for a big test. Let him find his feet with Saints again and hopefully he can stay fit for the World Cup. Curry's been off his best for a while. Don't see that there's a need to have him involved in the tournament at all, not while Willis and Earl are going well.

Possibly have Curry on the bench as an option to replace Dombrandt (who’s not shone ) ?

Joost wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:40 pm While I’m quite positive about the new regime and what it could do over time, it’s a painful realisation that kicking away front-foot ball has survived the disposal of the old coaching regime and Ben Youngs.

I can only think of two games where it’s actually worked well; Ireland in Dublin (when they had Henshaw and Stockdale in the back 3) and France at Twickenham the following week (Huget! ) - it’s never worked where the opposition has a competent back 3 who can tidy up and counter or return the ball with interest.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:00 pm

Benny The Ball wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:34 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:44 pm

Definitely. Lawes has barely played this season, I don't really see that it'd be in his interest to rush him back for a big test. Let him find his feet with Saints again and hopefully he can stay fit for the World Cup. Curry's been off his best for a while. Don't see that there's a need to have him involved in the tournament at all, not while Willis and Earl are going well.

Possibly have Curry on the bench as an option to replace Dombrandt (who’s not shone ) ?

I'd persist with Dombrandt. He was good last game and I think it would behoove us to allow him to actually have a run in the shirt. I'm not sure he's ever lined up with the same back row combo for successive tests and his own past caps have been intermittent. With our dearth of specialist 8s he's shown enough to be persisted with. Especially if the alternative means changing the back row again.

With that in mind, I don't see Curry as enough of an impact sub to displace Earl.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:22 am

Ovals wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:57 am

Sinkers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:15 am I was quite optimistic last weekend - at least we seemed to want to play a bit even if there was loads to work on

Please don’t tell me we’ve already gone back to a time where I wake up in the morning, check a few comments around the web and then decide I can’t be arsed to watch the game because it will be a cancerous bore fest of anti-rugby??

I think you're expecting too much too soon. Without a forwards platform, a decent set piece, maul and defence, there's no platform for the coaches to build on. The kicking in there 22 was incredibly frustrating - but at least they now have something to work with. I'd be disappointed if that was the limit of their expectations but this was yet another new backline combo that they'd had just a week to work with.

If the Baabaas can manage to string phases together without kicking it away inside the 22 after spending a week together mostly on the piss, I feel like we should be able to do the something similar even if the absolute basics are the primary coaching focus. A group of pro players being able to hold onto the ball and patiently try to explore any potenital gaps shouldn't fall under 'expecting too much'

Ovals wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:33 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:25 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:08 pm Lawes and T Curry apparently going to be fit for Wales... going to make it interesting in terms of selection.

I wouldn’t add either of them to the squad until they’ve played a couple of Premier matches

Lawes would be a far better bench option than Isielwe !!

Benny The Ball wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:55 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:00 pm

Benny The Ball wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:34 pm

Possibly have Curry on the bench as an option to replace Dombrandt (who’s not shone ) ?

I'd persist with Dombrandt. He was good last game and I think it would behoove us to allow him to actually have a run in the shirt. I'm not sure he's ever lined up with the same back row combo for successive tests and his own past caps have been intermittent. With our dearth of specialist 8s he's shown enough to be persisted with. Especially if the alternative means changing the back row again.

With that in mind, I don't see Curry as enough of an impact sub to displace Earl.

Would be great to have some stability, and the back row with Ludlum, Dombrandt, and Willis certainly has a nice balance; I’m just struggling to let go of Dombrandt’s shocker against Scotland. Hopefully the next few games he can improve further ( seems to me he needs a bit more composure )

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:20 pm

Benny The Ball wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:55 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:00 pm

I'd persist with Dombrandt. He was good last game and I think it would behoove us to allow him to actually have a run in the shirt. I'm not sure he's ever lined up with the same back row combo for successive tests and his own past caps have been intermittent. With our dearth of specialist 8s he's shown enough to be persisted with. Especially if the alternative means changing the back row again.

With that in mind, I don't see Curry as enough of an impact sub to displace Earl.

Would be great to have some stability, and the back row with Ludlum, Dombrandt, and Willis certainly has a nice balance; I’m just struggling to let go of Dombrandt’s shocker against Scotland. Hopefully the next few games he can improve further ( seems to me he needs a bit more composure )

I don't think it's a good idea to drop someone for handling errors when they did plenty of good work outside that, especially not if they've then followed up with a game full of hard carries and busts through the forwards.

Unless you wanted to ensure the players remain terrified of doing anything wrong ever, I guess. Hi Eddie, nice to have you here.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:42 pm I don't think there's much evidence that Dombrandt keeps cocking up restarts for Quins. If he does it again in Cardiff we're having a different conversation, but as frustrating as it is I don't see it as a reason to tinker with the side.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:20 pm

Benny The Ball wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:55 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:00 pm

I'd persist with Dombrandt. He was good last game and I think it would behoove us to allow him to actually have a run in the shirt. I'm not sure he's ever lined up with the same back row combo for successive tests and his own past caps have been intermittent. With our dearth of specialist 8s he's shown enough to be persisted with. Especially if the alternative means changing the back row again.

With that in mind, I don't see Curry as enough of an impact sub to displace Earl.

Would be great to have some stability, and the back row with Ludlum, Dombrandt, and Willis certainly has a nice balance; I’m just struggling to let go of Dombrandt’s shocker against Scotland. Hopefully the next few games he can improve further ( seems to me he needs a bit more composure )

I don't think it's a good idea to drop someone for handling errors when they did plenty of good work outside that, especially not if they've then followed up with a game full of hard carries and busts through the forwards.

Unless you wanted to ensure the players remain terrified of doing anything wrong ever, I guess. Hi Eddie, nice to have you here.

pjm1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:56 pm The SB post match presser is interesting and worth a listen to on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wymj0OdpQ1g

He's clearly not enamoured with the performance - he acknowledges the win but highlights how much is still to be done ("small steps forward"). To be fair, this recognition is a step on from Eddie who would say stupid shit just to deflect. Bizarrely, I'm sure I remember SB did at some point talk about the players sticking in there and showing perseverance although clearly not enough to let the lead slip against Scotland and, frankly, drop off as they did in the 2nd half vs Italy (who, to be fair also stepped up a much needed gear). It can't have been this press conference - maybe it was the pre-match conference?

I suspect we all can, however, sympathise with the predicament he's accepted: he has a dysfunctional team (more a collection of historically poorly-selected individuals), some collateral damage to less favoured players from Eddie's "man management" and a team that has been shorn of its fundamental strengths. There's a lot of rebuilding of the basics before the team can start to add anything like polish or panache.

He also talks about playing each game as they come, on its own merits. Whilst that is fine as far as getting wins is concerned, it conflicts with the desire (and need) to build a cohesive team with a plan on how it wants to play. I'm not sure I believe him when he says he's focusing on the former rather than the latter... surely it must be a blend of the two? Fine to pick different tactics for each game, as long as it's being pulled from an armoury that has already been built - I'm concerned we don't have enough time to build that in time for the RWC.

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:23 pm I think the most important thing against Italy was to get the win. A loss would have been really crippling. And it was a small step forwards - we did most of the basics a bit better - set pieces looked better and we were winning the collisions and getting front foot ball. Next step is to make more use of such ball.

Whilst the defense, particularly line speed, looked much better, we're still missing too many tackles. There's still loads of areas we need to improve on. Maybe playing the same XV again might help us improve the cohesion - so I hope they don't tinker with selections too much.

Forwards: Ollie Chessum, Dan Cole, Ben Curry, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Ellis Genge, Jamie George, Nick Isiekwe, Maro Itoje, Lewis Ludlam, Will Stuart, Mako Vunipola, Jack Walker, Jack Willis.

Backs: Henry Arundell, Owen Farrell, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Ollie Lawrence, Max Malins, Joe Marchant, Alex Mitchell, Henry Slade, Marcus Smith, Freddie Steward, Jack van Poortvliet, Anthony Watson.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:42 pm Traing squad for Wales. Mako still stinking up the LHP position, Stuart in as Sinkler injured. At least Youngs is nowhere near the squad

Forwards: Ollie Chessum, Dan Cole, Ben Curry, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Ellis Genge, Jamie George, Nick Isiekwe, Maro Itoje, Lewis Ludlam, Will Stuart, Mako Vunipola, Jack Walker, Jack Willis.

Backs: Henry Arundell, Owen Farrell, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Ollie Lawrence, Max Malins, Joe Marchant, Alex Mitchell, Henry Slade, Marcus Smith, Freddie Steward, Jack van Poortvliet, Anthony Watson.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:49 pm I thought Stuart was injured, has he just come back or something?

Dragster wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:59 pm A win was important, but Italy looked knackered first half from the France game and won the second half when they woke up I think?. We were very lucky with some of the scrum penalties as well.

Mako? I think Rapava Ruskin is in when the EPS changes are next allowed I’m sure.

Dragster wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:59 pm A win was important, but Italy looked knackered first half from the France game and won the second half when they woke up I think?. We were very lucky with some of the scrum penalties as well.

Mako? I think Rapava Ruskin is in when the EPS changes are next allowed I’m sure.