NPR

BTW the good ol'

"The BBC can't be 'stifling decent" because they can and might use other platforms" is some wonderfully flawed mental gymnastics

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:36 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:31 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:28 pm
Yes I can. So I'll ask again, do you think the Sun is lying?

OK, if you think that the cancelling of a comedy show that will most likely air on another channel, and who's chair is currently being reported on in all national papers as calling the Prime Minister a liar and a racist constitutes a country where there is a crackdown on all possible dissent then I think you're mad and we'll leave it there.

answer the fucking question.

Since you asked so nicely, I never said the Sun was lying so a bizarre thing to keep going on.

As I say, if you see the cancellation of a mediocre comedy show as a stifling of dissent dictatorship style we're starting from so far apart there's no point in the discussion. The UK is not a dictatorship and it trivialises what's going on in real ones to a point that is a little embarrassing. My last word on this, you're welcome to your opposing view.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:34 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:36 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:31 pm

OK, if you think that the cancelling of a comedy show that will most likely air on another channel, and who's chair is currently being reported on in all national papers as calling the Prime Minister a liar and a racist constitutes a country where there is a crackdown on all possible dissent then I think you're mad and we'll leave it there.

answer the fucking question.

Since you asked so nicely, I never said the Sun was lying so a bizarre thing to keep going on.

As I say, if you see the cancellation of a mediocre comedy show as a stifling of dissent dictatorship style we're starting from so far apart there's no point in the discussion. The UK is not a dictatorship and it trivialises what's going on in real ones to a point that is a little embarrassing. My last word on this, you're welcome to your opposing view.

The cancellation of it because (as said by the Sun) it was critical of the government and anti-Brexit doesn't alter your view of it at all?

The UK isn't a dictatorship. But it is run by an authoritarian right-wing government that's publicly whipping up culture war nonsense, is introducing ever more illiberal laws, quite clearly doesn't think that laws or political norms apply to them, and has made overt moves to control the state broadcaster and the rest of the broadcast media.

'As said by the Sun' is the key element there. They're as invested in whipping up a culture war as anyone. Chances are that it's been cancelled because shows get cancelled and it's viewing figures aren't amazing.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:22 pm 'As said by the Sun' is the key element there. They're as invested in whipping up a culture war as anyone. Chances are that it's been cancelled because shows get cancelled and it's viewing figures aren't amazing.

The Telegraph is also reporting the same reasons for cancellation. At this stage, arguing the cancellation is NOT a political decision because of the show satirising the government and being anti-Brexit is swimming against the tide of information coming from all sides. The guy responsible has been open in his disdain for "left wing" comedy and in his desire to change things. It's blinkered to just flatly deny this is likely an example of it.

The viewing figures aren't amazing but the clips from the show reach tens of millions of people. Their "a message from women" bit had like 130 million views on Facebook alone.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:34 pm Since you asked so nicely, I never said the Sun was lying so a bizarre thing to keep going on.

How bizarre!? I never said you said the Sun was lying. I asked you if you thought they were?

So, just to be clear, you think they're telling the truth when they report "Sources close to the director-general said he felt the genre needed a radical overhaul as it was too biased against the Tories and Brexit."

and based on that you still think "The idea that there is a suppression of any form of dissent in the UK is, I'm afraid, just silly."

but wait what, now you're saying the Sun is lying...

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:22 pm 'As said by the Sun' is the key element there. They're as invested in whipping up a culture war as anyone. Chances are that it's been cancelled because shows get cancelled and it's viewing figures aren't amazing.

The cancellation of Mash Up Report is a worrying sign. It is mediocre show, some very good, some quite poor, and it does have a liberal slant. But it's not cancelled because of viewing numbers, or makers/presenters having had enough.
It's cancelled because of a policy by the new BBC director: when appointed it was already known that he was a conservative man who was very close to the government, and he started attacking 'liberal comedy shows' straightaway when appointed.
The cancelling of the Mash Up Report is not unexpected, but the nature of it is very concerning.

This is not a sign of censorship, but it's sneakier: slowly limiting output, so public information is more limited and directed towards a particular political bias.

Another example of which is the lack of challenging of the cronyism by government ministers on the BBC, which is baffling.

I support no political party, but I have a big issue with this government's methods (lies, cronyism, no accountability etc.), and Boris leads and personifies everything that's wrong with it.

There is a fair concern that whilst the BBC has had shows like the Mash Report it has little that speaks in a similar voice from a pro Brexit, pro authoritarian government standpoint, and clearly that does lack balance vis a vis the UK population. The problem with the Beeb is how to make a satire that speaks to a bunch of people that believe in a simplistic nationalistic take on life that wouldn't come across as worrying in the extreme, just having the occasional guest slot for Geoff Norcot isn't enough, but what would be?

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:42 am There is a fair concern that whilst the BBC has had shows like the Mash Report it has little that speaks in a similar voice from a pro Brexit, pro authoritarian government standpoint, and clearly that does lack balance vis a vis the UK population. The problem with the Beeb is how to make a satire that speaks to a bunch of people that believe in a simplistic nationalistic take on life that wouldn't come across as worrying in the extreme, just having the occasional guest slot for Geoff Norcot isn't enough, but what would be?

I don’t think it’s actually possible to make a satire programme that appeals to a bunch of people with a simple nationalistic take on life. Not without some flat out racism and sexism being presented as humour.

... and now for the "The Brexit Comedy show!"

you will laugh!

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:42 am There is a fair concern that whilst the BBC has had shows like the Mash Report it has little that speaks in a similar voice from a pro Brexit, pro authoritarian government standpoint, and clearly that does lack balance vis a vis the UK population. The problem with the Beeb is how to make a satire that speaks to a bunch of people that believe in a simplistic nationalistic take on life that wouldn't come across as worrying in the extreme, just having the occasional guest slot for Geoff Norcot isn't enough, but what would be?

I think it's probably very difficult for any serious news organ to produce content that presents 'pro-Brexit, pro authoritarian government standpoints' in a favourable light without losing credibility.

I accept that there are newspapers in the UK which attempt to do so, but whether they ever had any credibility in the first place is moot. If the Telegraph had any, it's certainly long gone since Boris started writing for them.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:59 pm ... and now for the "The Brexit Comedy show!"

you will laugh!

Starring Jim Davidson, & Bernard Manning

Rinkals wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:07 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:42 am There is a fair concern that whilst the BBC has had shows like the Mash Report it has little that speaks in a similar voice from a pro Brexit, pro authoritarian government standpoint, and clearly that does lack balance vis a vis the UK population. The problem with the Beeb is how to make a satire that speaks to a bunch of people that believe in a simplistic nationalistic take on life that wouldn't come across as worrying in the extreme, just having the occasional guest slot for Geoff Norcot isn't enough, but what would be?

I think it's probably very difficult for any serious news organ to produce content that presents 'pro-Brexit, pro authoritarian government standpoints' in a favourable light without losing credibility.

I accept that there are newspapers in the UK which attempt to do so, but whether they ever had any credibility in the first place is moot. If the Telegraph had any, it's certainly long gone since Boris started writing for them.

Certainly can't see them doing anything like the MPs expenses investigation under the current editorial regime.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:12 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:59 pm ... and now for the "The Brexit Comedy show!"

you will laugh!

Starring Jim Davidson, & Bernard Manning

"There are some reports of reduced trade to Europe since we left the EU. Reality is our exports are indeed getting stuck, because of the EU covid response the trucks can't get through the streets as they are filled with dead bodies and unused Astrazeneca vaccine boxes! "

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:43 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:12 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:59 pm ... and now for the "The Brexit Comedy show!"

you will laugh!

Starring Jim Davidson, & Bernard Manning

"There are some reports of reduced trade to Europe since we left the EU. Reality is our exports are indeed getting stuck, because of the EU covid response the trucks can't get through the streets as they are filled with dead bodies and unused Astrazeneca vaccine boxes! "

There’s nothing funny about Vienna.

So on Saturday police decide to use violence against grieving woman during a vigil after one of their own (allegedly) murdered and kidnapped a woman. On Monday the Tories sprint through a bill giving police even more powers to stamp out protests.

Another banner week in our liberal democracy.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:31 pm So on Saturday police decide to use violence against grieving woman during a vigil after one of their own (allegedly) murdered and kidnapped a woman. On Monday the Tories sprint through a bill giving police even more powers to stamp out protests.

Another banner week in our liberal democracy.

I’d hate to be police in that scenario. The law says they must break it up as it’s beyond covid guidelines, but you know you’ll be pilloried for it.

On top of it all, it’s likely a cause they’d all be in support of.

No win.

The state of he UK police allowing this guy into their ranks. Wonder how many other murderers they've hired?

Random1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:58 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:31 pm So on Saturday police decide to use violence against grieving woman during a vigil after one of their own (allegedly) murdered and kidnapped a woman. On Monday the Tories sprint through a bill giving police even more powers to stamp out protests.

Another banner week in our liberal democracy.

I’d hate to be police in that scenario. The law says they must break it up as it’s beyond covid guidelines, but you know you’ll be pilloried for it.

On top of it all, it’s likely a cause they’d all be in support of.

No win.

There is a very clear win. Allow the socially distanced vigil in the first place. The vigil was inevitable, banning it gave it extra politically charged dimensions. Kate Middleton turned up ffs. The met had more chance of removing covid from the country than mourners from the Common. You don't use violence on women who are I guess protesting violence against woman. You do not do that.

The police didn't fight any rangers fans as they celebrated in the streets last week. They even took the knee during some BLM protests. They allowed gatherings on streets for the NHS applause. What they did was ridiculous and I think it spells the end of Cressida Dick. They messed up so bad Priti Patel is annoyed at the use of force against protestors! They achieved the impossible.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:10 pm

Random1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:58 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:31 pm So on Saturday police decide to use violence against grieving woman during a vigil after one of their own (allegedly) murdered and kidnapped a woman. On Monday the Tories sprint through a bill giving police even more powers to stamp out protests.

Another banner week in our liberal democracy.

I’d hate to be police in that scenario. The law says they must break it up as it’s beyond covid guidelines, but you know you’ll be pilloried for it.

On top of it all, it’s likely a cause they’d all be in support of.

No win.

There is a very clear win. Allow the socially distanced vigil in the first place. The vigil was inevitable, banning it gave it extra politically charged dimensions. Kate Middleton turned up ffs. The met had more chance of removing covid from the country than mourners from the Common. You don't use violence on women who are I guess protesting violence against woman. You do not do that.

The police didn't fight any rangers fans as they celebrated in the streets last week. They even took the knee during some BLM protests. They allowed gatherings on streets for the NHS applause. What they did was ridiculous and I think it spells the end of Cressida Dick. They messed up so bad Priti Patel is annoyed at the use of force against protestors! They achieved the impossible.

Yep. A peaceful vigil, with most in attendance wearing face masks. Not a rowdy mob fighting with the police, instead the protesters shouted 'shame on you' as the police started arresting women.

Should the groups be there? No. But could the police have handled it much more insensitively? Not by much.

If anything it emphasises the point: the police will step back when (mostly male) football supporters and conspiracy theorists get together in large numbers (or even use violence against police). But a peaceful, grieving group of women who they can outmuscle/overpower are arrested.

Massive overreaction by the cops. Cant see Cressida Dick surviving this

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:10 pm

Random1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:58 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:31 pm So on Saturday police decide to use violence against grieving woman during a vigil after one of their own (allegedly) murdered and kidnapped a woman. On Monday the Tories sprint through a bill giving police even more powers to stamp out protests.

Another banner week in our liberal democracy.

I’d hate to be police in that scenario. The law says they must break it up as it’s beyond covid guidelines, but you know you’ll be pilloried for it.

On top of it all, it’s likely a cause they’d all be in support of.

No win.

There is a very clear win. Allow the socially distanced vigil in the first place. The vigil was inevitable, banning it gave it extra politically charged dimensions. Kate Middleton turned up ffs. The met had more chance of removing covid from the country than mourners from the Common. You don't use violence on women who are I guess protesting violence against woman. You do not do that.

The police didn't fight any rangers fans as they celebrated in the streets last week. They even took the knee during some BLM protests. They allowed gatherings on streets for the NHS applause. What they did was ridiculous and I think it spells the end of Cressida Dick. They messed up so bad Priti Patel is annoyed at the use of force against protestors! They achieved the impossible.

I Agree in principle, and I can’t see any logic in it from a political stance.

All I was saying was that i don’t envy being in the front line for the police on this. The front line is in a proper shitty position.

Random1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:58 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:31 pm So on Saturday police decide to use violence against grieving woman during a vigil after one of their own (allegedly) murdered and kidnapped a woman. On Monday the Tories sprint through a bill giving police even more powers to stamp out protests.

Another banner week in our liberal democracy.

I’d hate to be police in that scenario. The law says they must break it up as it’s beyond covid guidelines, but you know you’ll be pilloried for it.

On top of it all, it’s likely a cause they’d all be in support of.

No win.

I'm pretty sure the law gives the police full discretion.

tc27 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:39 pm Massive overreaction by the cops. Cant see Cressida Dick surviving this

She's survived much worse; so I don't see why this should be any different.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:01 am

Random1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:58 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:31 pm So on Saturday police decide to use violence against grieving woman during a vigil after one of their own (allegedly) murdered and kidnapped a woman. On Monday the Tories sprint through a bill giving police even more powers to stamp out protests.

Another banner week in our liberal democracy.

I’d hate to be police in that scenario. The law says they must break it up as it’s beyond covid guidelines, but you know you’ll be pilloried for it.

On top of it all, it’s likely a cause they’d all be in support of.

No win.

I'm pretty sure the law gives the police full discretion.

Discretion still requires decision making. Doing nothing is a decision.

Who knows what went into that decision.

Just off the top of my head, what if they had refused permission for BLM to hold a similar thing?

They’d have been pilloried for allowing this for a white woman.

All I’m saying is, let’s see what went into the decision, then condemn them, or not, once we have the facts.

The Met having an entirely normal one last night. By and large they policed the protests last year effectively, god knows what they were thinking yesterday

Random1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:29 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:01 am

Random1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:58 pm

I’d hate to be police in that scenario. The law says they must break it up as it’s beyond covid guidelines, but you know you’ll be pilloried for it.

On top of it all, it’s likely a cause they’d all be in support of.

No win.

I'm pretty sure the law gives the police full discretion.

Discretion still requires decision making. Doing nothing is a decision.

Who knows what went into that decision.

Just off the top of my head, what if they had refused permission for BLM to hold a similar thing?

They’d have been pilloried for allowing this for a white woman.

All I’m saying is, let’s see what went into the decision, then condemn them, or not, once we have the facts.

They didn't allow it because it would be a breach of covid rules. And they presumably didn't allow the BLM ones either. Unless legislation changed after it to ban protests in covid. Every protests in lockdown from BLM, to statue bores, to Piers Corbyn's anti lockdown loonies to this were all inevitable. So they should've allowed the vigil.

But they messed up. They'll do well to claim their use of force was proportionate. And they'll be more protests now anyway. The morons that they are.

What struck me was how American a lot of the protest signs felt, fascinating how much their politics is permeating into the UK

Met doubles down this morning, with a line that basically echoes what most abusers say to their victims, you made me do this to you.

Top quality PR.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:26 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:39 pm Massive overreaction by the cops. Cant see Cressida Dick surviving this

She's survived much worse; so I don't see why this should be any different.

I understand that Patel wants her out. But for someone more hardline. Here's the excuse.

Any protest which will involve breaking the existing law should be banned. That involves abiding to COVID restrictions.

Presumably the new laws are there to prevent breaking the law rather than needing to react and then have to make necessary fines and arrests as it happens. Which would be even more antagonist

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:59 pm The state of he UK police allowing this guy into their ranks. Wonder how many other murderers they've hired?

I am not sure that is the hill you want to die on...Glass houses etc.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:50 am Any protest which will involve breaking the existing law should be banned. That involves abiding to COVID restrictions.

Presumably the new laws are there to prevent breaking the law rather than needing to react and then have to make necessary fines and arrests as it happens. Which would be even more antagonist

Exactly - that combined with elements at that vigil that were not there to honour Sarah but to stir up confrontation with the Police.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:50 am Any protest which will involve breaking the existing law should be banned. That involves abiding to COVID restrictions.

Presumably the new laws are there to prevent breaking the law rather than needing to make necessary fines and arrests as it happens.

The new laws are there to suppress any public display of dissent or opposition to the Government, from that bloke outside Parliament protesting Brexit to marches and vigils that the police don't like.

Incidentally, 100 people held a vigil in Nottingham Town Square yesterday evening, and it went off peacefully without any police intervention whatsoever, so the idea that the Met were forced to go in on a bunch of women protesting the death of a woman at the hands of a serving Met officer is fucking nonsense.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:58 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:50 am Any protest which will involve breaking the existing law should be banned. That involves abiding to COVID restrictions.

Presumably the new laws are there to prevent breaking the law rather than needing to make necessary fines and arrests as it happens.

The new laws are there to suppress any public display of dissent or opposition to the Government, from that bloke outside Parliament protesting Brexit to marches and vigils that the police don't like.

Incidentally, 100 people held a vigil in Nottingham Town Square yesterday evening, and it went off peacefully without any police intervention whatsoever, so the idea that the Met were forced to go in on a bunch of women protesting the death of a woman at the hands of a serving Met officer is fucking nonsense.

Reading reports of it it was perfectly peaceful and the police at a respectful distance until a group of men started confronting the police.

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:59 pm The state of he UK police allowing this guy into their ranks. Wonder how many other murderers they've hired?

Tip of the iceberg isn't it. Last year two policemen took selfies with murdered woman and shared them across WhatsApp. Don't think they've yet been charged with anything though or what the crime is. But that mentality doesn't strike you as good. I notice the alleged killer was reported for flashing weeks before he killed someone and the met are investigating why nothing was done.

It's clear there's a problem here. I wonder why rape and domestic violence crimes are prosecuting so little. I wonder why.

Was there this much discussion over the BBC cancelling Andrew Neil's This Week?









For once I actually feel sorry for the police.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:58 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:50 am Any protest which will involve breaking the existing law should be banned. That involves abiding to COVID restrictions.

Presumably the new laws are there to prevent breaking the law rather than needing to make necessary fines and arrests as it happens.

The new laws are there to suppress any public display of dissent or opposition to the Government, from that bloke outside Parliament protesting Brexit to marches and vigils that the police don't like.

Incidentally, 100 people held a vigil in Nottingham Town Square yesterday evening, and it went off peacefully without any police intervention whatsoever, so the idea that the Met were forced to go in on a bunch of women protesting the death of a woman at the hands of a serving Met officer is fucking nonsense.

Perhaps I misunderstood the new laws. Does it give police full discretionary rights, the right to block protests even where they will not break existing laws? And without parameters?

Random1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:58 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:31 pm So on Saturday police decide to use violence against grieving woman during a vigil after one of their own (allegedly) murdered and kidnapped a woman. On Monday the Tories sprint through a bill giving police even more powers to stamp out protests.

Another banner week in our liberal democracy.

I’d hate to be police in that scenario. The law says they must break it up as it’s beyond covid guidelines, but you know you’ll be pilloried for it.

On top of it all, it’s likely a cause they’d all be in support of.

No win.

An entirely predictable outcome. The less than honest element of society can and does use these events to create chaos and if someone/people lose their positions of power over it all the better.

10 years in jail for serious annoyance lol