NPR

Next question is do we get another joke non-meritorious ministerial appointment like Coffey, or someone with actual ability and knowledge to perform their responsibilities?

To be fair to him he has kept his word about resigning and states that the report dismissed the majority of the claims and he disputes the two that were upheld. There seems to be a very fine line these days between impossible authority and alleged bullying, basically people no longer seem to be able to cope with being chastised for doing a shit job.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:30 am Next question is do we get another joke non-meritorious ministerial appointment like Coffey, or someone with actual ability and knowledge to perform their responsibilities?

Competence isn't important, loyalty, & blind adherence to the culture wars is !

Imagine being the civil servants he bullied and drove to the point of lunacy.. and yet he is still there, just wandering around the back benches...like nothing happenned..planning revenge and taking out his resentment etc.


I mean what other area of life can you do this?

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:30 am Next question is do we get another joke non-meritorious ministerial appointment like Coffey, or someone with actual ability and knowledge to perform their responsibilities?

That would presuppose such a person existed in the Tory Party.

To be fair to him he has kept his word about resigning and states that the report dismissed the majority of the claims and he disputes the two that were upheld. There seems to be a very fine line these days between impossible authority and alleged bullying, basically people no longer seem to be able to cope with being chastised for doing a shit job.




Yeah, we don't live in a world where you can just chastise and shouty shouty at the nearest person to you, because you think they are shite..you have to go through normal disciplinary procedures if you have a problem.
This isn't the army.
His victims could recieve massive compensation.

The man's an incompetent cowardly idiot who didn't realise the importance of the Dover to Calais trade route ffs.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:34 am To be fair to him he has kept his word about resigning and states that the report dismissed the majority of the claims and he disputes the two that were upheld. There seems to be a very fine line these days between impossible authority and alleged bullying, basically people no longer seem to be able to cope with being chastised for doing a shit job.

Let's wait and see what the report says. I suspect that Raab's interpretation of the report is as good as his knowledge of cross channel logistics.
However he will for ever more be known as a bully

C69 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:43 am

Blackmac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:34 am To be fair to him he has kept his word about resigning and states that the report dismissed the majority of the claims and he disputes the two that were upheld. There seems to be a very fine line these days between impossible authority and alleged bullying, basically people no longer seem to be able to cope with being chastised for doing a shit job.

Let's wait and see what the report says. I suspect that Raab's interpretation of the report is as good as his knowledge of cross channel logistics.
However he will for ever more be known as a bully

Quite!

Given he's clearly an unpleasant man who feels very hard done by lets not lose sight of the fact that this is very amusing

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:42 am To be fair to him he has kept his word about resigning and states that the report dismissed the majority of the claims and he disputes the two that were upheld. There seems to be a very fine line these days between impossible authority and alleged bullying, basically people no longer seem to be able to cope with being chastised for doing a shit job.




Yeah, we don't live in a world where you can just chastise and shouty shouty at the nearest person to you, because you think they are shite..you have to go through normal disciplinary procedures if you have a problem.
This isn't the army.
His victims could recieve massive compensation.

The man's an incompetent cowardly idiot who didn't realise the importance of the Dover to Calais trade route ffs.

You don't have to go though disciplinary procedures to comment on the quality of a colleague or employees quality of work ffs. I take it you are the sort who would be perfectly happy to be complemented on your work but not criticised.

It was becoming quite common place in the police before I left that officers struggled to accept any sort of direct criticism, no matter how justified, so I would imagine it is bloody endemic in the civil service.

Massive compensation for fuck sake. That speaks volumes about you.

In my working life I had to undertake number of investigations involving serious consequences and possible loss of life. In many cases there was a boss who bullied staff and who created a toxic culture which inevitably ended up with a serious incident. When investigating the junior staff would say things like 'I knew what I was told to do was wrong but I was too scared to say anything', 'everyone knew his reputation and it was easier to keep quiet and avoid him/her', 'he was just determined to get the job done regardless of the risks involved', 'if it wasn't good news then it was easier to not report anything' or 'its a shame this happened but everyone knew he was a bully and didnt know what he was doing'. Bullies, bullying behaviour and a culture which allows it is a major risk to organisations and to their customers/clients. Luckily most organisations have realised this and are trying to get rid of this type of behaviour - not for any other reason other than it is in their own best interests.

In one example I had to investigate a surgeon who had been brilliant in his day but an out and out bully in work. He would shout and be rude to all staff especially his junior docs but who as he got older his skills deteriorated. The junior docs admitted that on occasion when he said he was finished they would say they would 'close the patient up' and as soon as the surgeon left the theatre they continued working on the patient to redo some of his work. When asked why they didnt say anything during the surgery they said the surgeon was highly respected and their careers depended on his references etc so rather than be on the wrong end of his anger this was easier for them! Fortunately the situation is very different in surgery these days!

Oil & gas, healthcare, finance, transport, etc have all had to address their bullying culture over the years - there are too many cases where bullies and their behaviour has led to major incidents and loss of life or money. Usually the bullies have little if any self awareness of their behaviours and operate in an environment that accommodates rather than challenges this behaviour.

Raab is a classic bully and his letter of resignation displays the utter arrogance, stupidity and lack of self awareness that typifies a bully. Glad the Cnut has gone!

Blackmac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:34 am To be fair to him he has kept his word about resigning and states that the report dismissed the majority of the claims and he disputes the two that were upheld. There seems to be a very fine line these days between impossible authority and alleged bullying, basically people no longer seem to be able to cope with being chastised for doing a shit job.

Knowing people who have actually worked in a Private Office, you go into the posts fully aware that it can be very stressful and demanding with rapidly changing tasks and immovable short notice deadlines where working fixed hours is not an option. Two or three years in post is normally a big step to promotion and possible pathway to a senior CS career - I really can't see people risking that with frivolous complaints even if most of the charges weren't upheld in this instance because their prospects are probably toast now no matter their abilities.

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:42 am To be fair to him he has kept his word about resigning and states that the report dismissed the majority of the claims and he disputes the two that were upheld. There seems to be a very fine line these days between impossible authority and alleged bullying, basically people no longer seem to be able to cope with being chastised for doing a shit job.




Yeah, we don't live in a world where you can just chastise and shouty shouty at the nearest person to you, because you think they are shite..you have to go through normal disciplinary procedures if you have a problem.
This isn't the army.
His victims could recieve massive compensation.

The man's an incompetent cowardly idiot who didn't realise the importance of the Dover to Calais trade route ffs.

There is no need to go through disciplinary process to give feedback to a member of staff that their work is not up to standard! You can do this perfectly easily in a 1-to-1 or review meeting, usually feedback is best asap after the poor performance. There are however some simple rules about doing this effectively and constructively and helps the individual improve performance. Not going to list here but just google anything on coaching, giving feedback etc. The main barrier is usually the person giving the feedback, I have usually been more nervous than the individual concerned beforehand but when done well they are usually relieved to get good feedback and help to do a better job. It aint difficult really!

Tories have been dehumanising the poor, sick unemployed (sorry " scroungers"), been attacking Nurses and Doctors (sorry greedy lazy wankers"), attacking anyone not a racist bigoted idiot (sorry "the woke"), their whole thing over the last 13 years has been about burning the country to the ground to protect the assets of the super rich and wealthy at the expense (and often very existence and survival) of people at the bottom.

They are deliberately nasty, as fuck, resent'tarded as fuck, and have self serving contempt for everyone they disagree with. And here is the dangerous thing with self serving contempt, as the contempt is self serving, as it serves them to have that contempt , at all times..it can never be satiated, no matter how many nasty policies...or how many of the poor, sick vulnerable and unemployed they kill, how many people they sanction or send to foodbanks or how many refugees they send to Rwanda.

Their descent into evil won't stop, no matter what they do. What reform they bring in, what indignity or penury they inflict..no policy will ever be nasty enough, as their contempt for varioua groups isn't real, it is self serving.
It serves them to have it.
So they do, no matter what.

colonel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:57 am Given he's clearly an unpleasant man who feels very hard done by lets not lose sight of the fact that this is very amusing

It is indeed. I'm prepared to accepts Slicks assessment that he isn't a bad bloke, but you see these types everywhere. He lacks the personality and strength of character to be a good manager/leader so he attempts to over compensate. These people also often have a complete inability to see their own weaknesses so are often over ambitious to reach positions way above their ability.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:38 am

colonel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:57 am Given he's clearly an unpleasant man who feels very hard done by lets not lose sight of the fact that this is very amusing

It is indeed. I'm prepared to accepts Slicks assessment that he isn't a bad bloke, but you see these types everywhere. He lacks the personality and strength of character to be a good manager/leader so he attempts to over compensate. These people also often have a complete inability to see their own weaknesses so are often over ambitious to reach positions way above their ability.

I am also prepared to accept that Slick genuinely thinks that

Apparently Raab also basically accuses two senior officials of lying, when they said that they warned him about his treatment of staff !

The report believes the officials !

I feel for Raab. At no point in the last decade has being dangerously incompetent and an absolute prick ever been a negative for a Tory. What bad luck!

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:55 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:20 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:51 pm

He's not a bully?

I admire your loyalty, but you're just wrong here.

What do you know that we don’t?

Edit: yeah, I am being loyal. I’ve been friends with Dom since we were 14, we share a best man, and were joint best man at that friends wedding. I still count him as a good friend and he is a good man with a fantastic wife and very grounded kids.

He was bullied pretty badly at school then went away and became fucking nails, but never in all the years I’ve known him either at school or after have I ever seen him use that to cause trouble or bully people. Quite the opposite in fact, I’ve been with him twice when he has intervened when someone was getting attacked and apart from in the boxing ring never seen him throw his weight around.

He is actually shy but can be intense and even back in the days when he worked for David Davies he’d get very frustrated with his peers who he didn’t think were doing their jobs. I think a guy who is Foreign Secretary and Deputy PM has the right to expect the best people around him. There is obviously an issue with how he managed certain people, but there are loads of others who say he is the best Minister they have worked with, which is probably what is saving him at the moment.

I don’t agree with him on pretty much anything politically, but he also must be one of the only senior politicians over the last few years that hasn’t been caught up in any sleaze or dodgy deals, and it won’t happen.

So I do get a bit defensive when people judge his character on what they read in the papers. Fire away if you want to berate him on policy though

Bullied at school yet ended up deputy PM ? Isn’t that the plot line from that Captain Underpants movie ?

Blackmac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:38 am

colonel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:57 am Given he's clearly an unpleasant man who feels very hard done by lets not lose sight of the fact that this is very amusing

It is indeed. I'm prepared to accepts Slicks assessment that he isn't a bad bloke, but you see these types everywhere. He lacks the personality and strength of character to be a good manager/leader so he attempts to over compensate. These people also often have a complete inability to see their own weaknesses so are often over ambitious to reach positions way above their ability.

Would agree, probably quite hard for the civil service to work with such incompetents implementing damaging policies.

Can imagine a lot of hissy fits if the civil service have any questions as that's the MO of this lot.

He has more substance in his backstory before becoming an MP than most of them, which is probably why that all gets talked up so much, because the rest are so lacking. If they were just good MPs they wouldn't even need a backstory/past career. 2010 Tory intake in a safe seat, always raises alarm bells. It always looked like he just wasn't very good at politics, even the limited internal Tory party game playing form. This is an era where Truss became PM, so someone ambitious like Raab had a chance but wasn't politically capable enough. The book gets mocked but if he had read Carnegie and adjusted his attitude, he maybe could've had the basic skills to lead without making people actively resent him.

This is his second resignation, if it's like the first he'll be on team Johnson/Truss soon enough and attempting to get back into the cabinet. He's always going to be the bridesmaid, because he cannot win anyone over to his side (failure at politics 101).

Every Dominic I've met in real life has been an absolute cunt.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:44 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:38 am

colonel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:57 am Given he's clearly an unpleasant man who feels very hard done by lets not lose sight of the fact that this is very amusing

It is indeed. I'm prepared to accepts Slicks assessment that he isn't a bad bloke, but you see these types everywhere. He lacks the personality and strength of character to be a good manager/leader so he attempts to over compensate. These people also often have a complete inability to see their own weaknesses so are often over ambitious to reach positions way above their ability.

Would agree, probably quite hard for the civil service to work with such incompetents implementing damaging policies.

Can imagine a lot of hissy fits if the civil service have any questions as that's the MO of this lot.

I would caveat that by adding that I meant to say "they" as opposed to "he" as I have no real knowledge of Raab so like everyone else I am speculating about his character. Slick knows him well and is mounting a decent defence of the guy and he doesn't come across to me a someone who is a poor judge of character
As JMK said, given the amount of absolute cnuts the Tories have in their ranks it's an unlucky as fuck for Raab that he seems to be one of the few to get pulled up for it.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:31 am I feel for Raab. At no point in the last decade has being dangerously incompetent and an absolute prick ever been a negative for a Tory. What bad luck!

It would take a heart of stone not to laugh.

He's on the record as not giving a shit about human rights, so fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:17 pm He has more substance in his backstory before becoming an MP than most of them, which is probably why that all gets talked up so much, because the rest are so lacking. If they were just good MPs they wouldn't even need a backstory/past career. 2010 Tory intake in a safe seat, always raises alarm bells. It always looked like he just wasn't very good at politics, even the limited internal Tory party game playing form. This is an era where Truss became PM, so someone ambitious like Raab had a chance but wasn't politically capable enough. The book gets mocked but if he had read Carnegie and adjusted his attitude, he maybe could've had the basic skills to lead without making people actively resent him.

This is his second resignation, if it's like the first he'll be on team Johnson/Truss soon enough and attempting to get back into the cabinet. He's always going to be the bridesmaid, because he cannot win anyone over to his side (failure at politics 101).

Every Dominic I've met in real life has been an absolute cunt.

Bit harsh blaming people with one name
How’s about ‘Every Mohammad / Reuben / Patrick I’ve met in real life has been an absolute cunt ‘ ?!

Yeeb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:08 pm Bit harsh blaming people with one name
How’s about ‘Every Mohammad / Reuben / Patrick I’ve met in real life has been an absolute cunt ‘ ?!

I'm now trying to remember your name.

I think you'll appreciate my top tier Dominic story. This "Dom" had a best friend who was having no luck with love, he advised him to join a dating site, he also joined the site just as a fake woman. He then starts chatting to his friend, over months, and gets his dick pics and all the rest. He finally arranges to meet his best friend whilst pretending to be the woman from the dating site. It's at a pub, where he also decides to invite everyone he knows. It's a fucking party and we're all there, people from work his friends, but none of us know what's coming next. There's about 40 of us, it's most of the pub. So the victim arrives and this "Dom", stands up on his chair starts loudly reading out the chats from his phone and showing the dick pics, whilst laughing hysterically. The guy looked suicidal.

Never met a Connor who wasn't a prick.

Yeeb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:08 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:17 pm He has more substance in his backstory before becoming an MP than most of them, which is probably why that all gets talked up so much, because the rest are so lacking. If they were just good MPs they wouldn't even need a backstory/past career. 2010 Tory intake in a safe seat, always raises alarm bells. It always looked like he just wasn't very good at politics, even the limited internal Tory party game playing form. This is an era where Truss became PM, so someone ambitious like Raab had a chance but wasn't politically capable enough. The book gets mocked but if he had read Carnegie and adjusted his attitude, he maybe could've had the basic skills to lead without making people actively resent him.

This is his second resignation, if it's like the first he'll be on team Johnson/Truss soon enough and attempting to get back into the cabinet. He's always going to be the bridesmaid, because he cannot win anyone over to his side (failure at politics 101).

Every Dominic I've met in real life has been an absolute cunt.

Bit harsh blaming people with one name

Saves time having to wonder about it.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:44 pm

Yeeb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:08 pm Bit harsh blaming people with one name
How’s about ‘Every Mohammad / Reuben / Patrick I’ve met in real life has been an absolute cunt ‘ ?!

I'm now trying to remember your name.

I think you'll appreciate my top tier Dominic story. This "Dom" had a best friend who was having no luck with love, he advised him to join a dating site, he also joined the site just as a fake woman. He then starts chatting to his friend, over months, and gets his dick pics and all the rest. He finally arranges to meet his best friend whilst pretending to be the woman from the dating site. It's at a pub, where he also decides to invite everyone he knows. It's a fucking party and we're all there, people from work his friends, but none of us know what's coming next. There's about 40 of us, it's most of the pub. So the victim arrives and this "Dom", stands up on his chair starts loudly reading out the chats from his phone and showing the dick pics, whilst laughing hysterically. The guy looked suicidal.

Who are you ?

Yeeb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:01 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:44 pm

Yeeb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:08 pm Bit harsh blaming people with one name
How’s about ‘Every Mohammad / Reuben / Patrick I’ve met in real life has been an absolute cunt ‘ ?!

I'm now trying to remember your name.

I think you'll appreciate my top tier Dominic story. This "Dom" had a best friend who was having no luck with love, he advised him to join a dating site, he also joined the site just as a fake woman. He then starts chatting to his friend, over months, and gets his dick pics and all the rest. He finally arranges to meet his best friend whilst pretending to be the woman from the dating site. It's at a pub, where he also decides to invite everyone he knows. It's a fucking party and we're all there, people from work his friends, but none of us know what's coming next. There's about 40 of us, it's most of the pub. So the victim arrives and this "Dom", stands up on his chair starts loudly reading out the chats from his phone and showing the dick pics, whilst laughing hysterically. The guy looked suicidal.

Who are you ?

Classic avoidance tactics, Tarquin.

sefton wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:31 pm

Yeeb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:01 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:44 pm
I'm now trying to remember your name.

I think you'll appreciate my top tier Dominic story. This "Dom" had a best friend who was having no luck with love, he advised him to join a dating site, he also joined the site just as a fake woman. He then starts chatting to his friend, over months, and gets his dick pics and all the rest. He finally arranges to meet his best friend whilst pretending to be the woman from the dating site. It's at a pub, where he also decides to invite everyone he knows. It's a fucking party and we're all there, people from work his friends, but none of us know what's coming next. There's about 40 of us, it's most of the pub. So the victim arrives and this "Dom", stands up on his chair starts loudly reading out the chats from his phone and showing the dick pics, whilst laughing hysterically. The guy looked suicidal.

Who are you ?

Classic avoidance tactics, Tarquin.

Bit low there Enoch.

I see Raab is playing the victim now on TV. Of course he knows that the people he bullied can't speak up beacuse they are still employed as civil servants.

C69 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:15 pm

sefton wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:31 pm

Yeeb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:01 pm

Who are you ?

Classic avoidance tactics, Tarquin.

Bit low there Enoch.

I see Raab is playing the victim now on TV. Of course he knows that the people he bullied can't speak up beacuse they are still employed as civil servants.

Raab's pathetic claim that he was targeted by 'activist civil servants' seems to be following the Liz Truss KamiKwarzi playbook, and is specifically countered by the report into his bullying which states that the Ministry of Justice officials who submitted a joint complaint about Raab were “sincere and committed civil servants” who had “no ulterior agenda”.

And in other news Barclay is taking the RCN to Court.
Fuck the RCN, they tried to negotiate a deal separately from the rest of the AFC Unions.
Now their buddy is fecking them over. Who would have ever thought it would go wrong...
You reap what you sow.

You sleep with dogs you get fleas.

I think 'activist' in his usage means 'someone who understands a topic in explicit detail and is trying to explain why what I want to do won't work'.

Interesting to read Slick's insight, I've always viewed Raab as someone whose ambition esceeds his talents, and people who find themselves in positions where their talent is outmatched often resort to the more loud and aggressive behaviours, compensating by trying to copy people of genuine talent and intelligence who can actually find ways to get people on board with them to push new initiatives through. But they only copy the superficial and don't understand the way that the genuinely talented build support in the face of opposition, substituting shouting for leadership.

Stupid activists making him bully them, burn em!

Raab really is behaving like a bullying Cnut now. Never liked him, not because he is called Dominic but because he has staring eyes! He always looks like a man who needed a shit 5 mins ago but has had to hold on as he doesnt want to go in case everyone starts talking about him. I see the Tories, apart from the usual nutters, are failing to form a square around him and he has been cast adrift by the majority of the party, never a good sign!

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 7:19 am Raab really is behaving like a bullying Cnut now. Never liked him, not because he is called Dominic but because he has staring eyes! He always looks like a man who needed a shit 5 mins ago but has had to hold on as he doesnt want to go in case everyone starts talking about him. I see the Tories, apart from the usual nutters, are failing to form a square around him and he has been cast adrift by the majority of the party, never a good sign!

The express still has his back

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 9:52 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 7:19 am Raab really is behaving like a bullying Cnut now. Never liked him, not because he is called Dominic but because he has staring eyes! He always looks like a man who needed a shit 5 mins ago but has had to hold on as he doesnt want to go in case everyone starts talking about him. I see the Tories, apart from the usual nutters, are failing to form a square around him and he has been cast adrift by the majority of the party, never a good sign!

The express still has his back

and The Mail of course!

The Daily Mail asks the question "Was this the day Britain became ungovernable?" and carries Mr Raab's comments that it was almost impossible for ministers to deliver for the British people.

Which likely translates to Ministers wanted to do lots of illegal and or deeply impractical things.

Tbh I suspect getting things done in government is going to be challenging after Raab's rants.
I suspect the Tories will be secretly pissed off Raab's infantile warblings and lack of self awareness.