NPR

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:49 am Watching this game and it dawned on me that as much as the SRU get wrong they've managed to organise games v Tier 2 and 3 countries to help get developing nations matches.

Since GT has in charge we have toured Japan, USA, played in Samoa, Fiji, Chile, hosted Georgia, Samoa (I think) and had a tour in Romania buggered by Covid.

We’ve not just hosted Georgia, we’ve been and played in Tbilisi.

Have we not played Canada as well?

Most of the T1 countries have done something adjacent to fuck all.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:56 am

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:49 am Watching this game and it dawned on me that as much as the SRU get wrong they've managed to organise games v Tier 2 and 3 countries to help get developing nations matches.

Since GT has in charge we have toured Japan, USA, played in Samoa, Fiji, Chile, hosted Georgia, Samoa (I think) and had a tour in Romania buggered by Covid.

We’ve not just hosted Georgia, we’ve been and played in Tbilisi.

Have we not played Canada as well?

Most of the T1 countries have done something adjacent to fuck all.

Yeah I wasn't sure if Canada was VC or GT.

I think a big issue now is the lack of A teams. Can understand why they were cut but A teams could play the likes of Ramania and Georgia.

Do world rugby not decide on who plays whom in tests? It’s great that we have played all those nations and I applaud it, but is it not because we couldn’t get a test series with anyone decent because we were pretty shit?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:21 pm Do world rugby not decide on who plays whom in tests? It’s great that we have played all those nations and I applaud it, but is it not because we couldn’t get a test series with anyone decent because we were pretty shit?

Nope, they have nothing to do with it, hence their desire for this fucking nonsense nations cup tournament to take the place of summer tours and autumn internationals.

Scotland took the decision not pursue full tours against NZ, SA and Oz a number of years back, in favour of some one off matches with games against other nations as well, rather than going to the other side of the world and getting fucked by 60 three weeks in a row.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:07 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:21 pm Do world rugby not decide on who plays whom in tests? It’s great that we have played all those nations and I applaud it, but is it not because we couldn’t get a test series with anyone decent because we were pretty shit?

Nope, they have nothing to do with it, hence their desire for this fucking nonsense nations cup tournament to take the place of summer tours and autumn internationals.

Scotland took the decision not pursue full tours against NZ, SA and Oz a number of years back, in favour of some one off matches with games against other nations as well, rather than going to the other side of the world and getting fucked by 60 three weeks in a row.

Fair enough

Well, that was a horrible half of rugby but utterly compelling. I think I’m the grand scheme of things we can be relatively happy with where we are, but the last 20-30 when SA start bringing the beef off the bench is when we’ll really see them tested

Easy peasy this for South Africa. Slow the rucks and good line speed and the Scotland attack is utterly toothless. As is often the case everything else then falls apart. Bleugh.

Big btual forward packs will always beat us.

Big stupid forward packs we can deal with. See England. And Australia.

Hey, this just means we should make a full on charge at the Urc, both Edinburgh and Glasgow. Get the internationals back sooner, crack into it and charge on.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 5:54 pm Hey, this just means we should make a full on charge at the Urc, both Edinburgh and Glasgow. Get the internationals back sooner, crack into it and charge on.

You kidding? The Sru will still have them on rest protocols until Christmas.

SA are simply very good at what they do.

A bit frustrating that for a spell everyone Finn looked outside him men were either standing still or there were too few of them.

I’m disappointed but not devastated. I also think after that performance we have a decent chance against Ireland, we generally stood up to their power but their line speed killed us.

Couple of controversial comments to get things going.

Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

Also, BK was a bit rubbish, did he catch a high ball? Tackling powder puff and kicking generally not effective.

Lineout is getting a bit mad, it has been an issue for 2 + years and still is. Start Cherry and just hit the front, that’s all we need, we are losing so much momentum and territory every bloody game.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm I’m disappointed but not devastated. I also think after that performance we have a decent chance against Ireland, we generally stood up to their power but their line speed killed us.

Couple of controversial comments to get things going.

Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

Also, BK was a bit rubbish, did he catch a high ball? Tackling powder puff and kicking generally not effective.

Lineout is getting a bit mad, it has been an issue for 2 + years and still is. Start Cherry and just hit the front, that’s all we need, we are losing so much momentum and territory every bloody game.

This is why he was moved to 10 fwiw.

Agree about the lineout - loses us games and we don't do much to solve it!

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

what an utterly bizarre comment

100% tackle completion and one of the only two Scottish forwards to beat a defender

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm I’m disappointed but not devastated. I also think after that performance we have a decent chance against Ireland, we generally stood up to their power but their line speed killed us.

Couple of controversial comments to get things going.

Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

Also, BK was a bit rubbish, did he catch a high ball? Tackling powder puff and kicking generally not effective.

Lineout is getting a bit mad, it has been an issue for 2 + years and still is. Start Cherry and just hit the front, that’s all we need, we are losing so much momentum and territory every bloody game.

Back row were out played comprehensively.

Kinghorn was poor in the air but I don't recall too many missed tackles in defence. Certainly not noticeably worse than who he has replaced.

Lime out was the calls and organisation. Asking Tuener to to throw extra long on line out two was demented. As for Turner and Cherry throwing in when no one got up, fuck knows if that was trhower, lifters or jumpers but it was a mess.

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:55 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

what an utterly bizarre comment

100% tackle completion and one of the only two Scottish forwards to beat a defender

The back row were poor. Made zero impact at breakdown. Beating a defender means bugger all when it allowed him to make a grand total of no yards in the provisional stats.

Just got back to Wales. I think this game went precisely how we all predicted. We matched them for most of the game, but lost our focus for a 5-10 minute spell, during which the game was won. It was more or less a re-run of Ireland in the 6N. We are pretty good these days, but not quite good enough to beat the top dogs.

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:58 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm I’m disappointed but not devastated. I also think after that performance we have a decent chance against Ireland, we generally stood up to their power but their line speed killed us.

Couple of controversial comments to get things going.

Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

Also, BK was a bit rubbish, did he catch a high ball? Tackling powder puff and kicking generally not effective.

Lineout is getting a bit mad, it has been an issue for 2 + years and still is. Start Cherry and just hit the front, that’s all we need, we are losing so much momentum and territory every bloody game.

Back row were out played comprehensively.

Kinghorn was poor in the air but I don't recall too many missed tackles in defence. Certainly not noticeably worse than who he has replaced.

Lime out was the calls and organisation. Asking Tuener to to throw extra long on line out two was demented. As for Turner and Cherry throwing in when no one got up, fuck knows if that was trhower, lifters or jumpers but it was a mess.

err

no-one mentioning Darcy blowing our one clear cut score? If we're talking individual errors, that's the biggest I've seen from a Scotland player for some time.

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:03 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:58 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm I’m disappointed but not devastated. I also think after that performance we have a decent chance against Ireland, we generally stood up to their power but their line speed killed us.

Couple of controversial comments to get things going.

Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

Also, BK was a bit rubbish, did he catch a high ball? Tackling powder puff and kicking generally not effective.

Lineout is getting a bit mad, it has been an issue for 2 + years and still is. Start Cherry and just hit the front, that’s all we need, we are losing so much momentum and territory every bloody game.

Back row were out played comprehensively.

Kinghorn was poor in the air but I don't recall too many missed tackles in defence. Certainly not noticeably worse than who he has replaced.

Lime out was the calls and organisation. Asking Tuener to to throw extra long on line out two was demented. As for Turner and Cherry throwing in when no one got up, fuck knows if that was trhower, lifters or jumpers but it was a mess.

err

no-one mentioning Darcy blowing our one clear cut score? If we're talking individual errors, that's the biggest I've seen from a Scotland player for some time.

Was mentioned quite a bit on the match thread. Was a big error.

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:01 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:55 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

what an utterly bizarre comment

100% tackle completion and one of the only two Scottish forwards to beat a defender

The back row were poor. Made zero impact at breakdown. Beating a defender means bugger all when it allowed him to make a grand total of no yards in the provisional stats.

agreed (I was trying to make the point that it is just fucking weird to say someone had a bad game and can't play at this level when they actually had a decent game). tho, I think it's weird not to acknowledge 100% tackles

do you think competing at the breakdown would have been a good idea? I don't.

Thinking ahead I'd go with the same 23 except Horne for Price.

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:11 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:03 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:58 pm

Back row were out played comprehensively.

Kinghorn was poor in the air but I don't recall too many missed tackles in defence. Certainly not noticeably worse than who he has replaced.

Lime out was the calls and organisation. Asking Tuener to to throw extra long on line out two was demented. As for Turner and Cherry throwing in when no one got up, fuck knows if that was trhower, lifters or jumpers but it was a mess.

err

no-one mentioning Darcy blowing our one clear cut score? If we're talking individual errors, that's the biggest I've seen from a Scotland player for some time.

Was mentioned quite a bit on the match thread. Was a big error.

I just thought it was odd for slick not to mention it

I mean, there's some folk on here who've said he's one of the best wingers in the world

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:12 pm Thinking ahead I'd go with the same 23 except Horne for Price.

yeah. I'd still start cherry ahead of turner

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:01 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:55 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

what an utterly bizarre comment

100% tackle completion and one of the only two Scottish forwards to beat a defender

The back row were poor. Made zero impact at breakdown. Beating a defender means bugger all when it allowed him to make a grand total of no yards in the provisional stats.

do you actually think that?

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:12 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:01 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:55 pm

what an utterly bizarre comment

100% tackle completion and one of the only two Scottish forwards to beat a defender

The back row were poor. Made zero impact at breakdown. Beating a defender means bugger all when it allowed him to make a grand total of no yards in the provisional stats.

agreed (I was trying to make the point that it is just fucking weird to say someone had a bad game and can't play at this level when they actually had a decent game). tho, I think it's weird not to acknowledge 100% tackles

do you think competing at the breakdown would have been a good idea? I don't.

I think players picking targeted rucks to compete would have helped at times otherwise there is little point playing a specialist 7. Each of our back row made little impact. At least Dempsey carried hard.

Plenty players make 100% of tackles these days.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:34 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm I’m disappointed but not devastated. I also think after that performance we have a decent chance against Ireland, we generally stood up to their power but their line speed killed us.

Couple of controversial comments to get things going.

Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

Also, BK was a bit rubbish, did he catch a high ball? Tackling powder puff and kicking generally not effective.

Lineout is getting a bit mad, it has been an issue for 2 + years and still is. Start Cherry and just hit the front, that’s all we need, we are losing so much momentum and territory every bloody game.

This is why he was moved to 10 fwiw.

Really?lol

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:19 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:01 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:55 pm

what an utterly bizarre comment

100% tackle completion and one of the only two Scottish forwards to beat a defender

The back row were poor. Made zero impact at breakdown. Beating a defender means bugger all when it allowed him to make a grand total of no yards in the provisional stats.

do you actually think that?

So does beating one defender but being tackled at the gain line* mean more than actually making ground?

*again based on provisional stats.

I can't imagine this will be the case when the stats are updated but 5 of the starting 8 gained 0m from 14 carries which feels odd.

While they didn't break, they never really landed a blow.

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:23 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:12 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:01 pm

The back row were poor. Made zero impact at breakdown. Beating a defender means bugger all when it allowed him to make a grand total of no yards in the provisional stats.

agreed (I was trying to make the point that it is just fucking weird to say someone had a bad game and can't play at this level when they actually had a decent game). tho, I think it's weird not to acknowledge 100% tackles

do you think competing at the breakdown would have been a good idea? I don't.

I think players picking targeted rucks to compete would have helped at times otherwise there is little point playing a specialist 7. Each of our back row made little impact. At least Dempsey carried hard.

Plenty players make 100% of tackles these days.

agreed. they were very clearly briefed not to unless they'd definite win it. which was the right call. especially with that ref.

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:23 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:19 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:01 pm

The back row were poor. Made zero impact at breakdown. Beating a defender means bugger all when it allowed him to make a grand total of no yards in the provisional stats.

do you actually think that?

So does beating one defender but being tackled at the gain line* mean more than actually making ground?

*again based on provisional stats.

ofc not. that would be silly.

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:13 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:11 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:03 pm

err

no-one mentioning Darcy blowing our one clear cut score? If we're talking individual errors, that's the biggest I've seen from a Scotland player for some time.

Was mentioned quite a bit on the match thread. Was a big error.

I just thought it was odd for slick not to mention it

I mean, there's some folk on here who've said he's one of the best wingers in the world

I thought it was obvious from the post I wasn’t commenting on single individual errors. Should have learnt by now that nothing is obvious to you.

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:23 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:34 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm I’m disappointed but not devastated. I also think after that performance we have a decent chance against Ireland, we generally stood up to their power but their line speed killed us.

Couple of controversial comments to get things going.

Did they mention Darge once? I didn’t hear it which is poor for a 7. I’m forming the opinion that he isn’t all that in big games.

Also, BK was a bit rubbish, did he catch a high ball? Tackling powder puff and kicking generally not effective.

Lineout is getting a bit mad, it has been an issue for 2 + years and still is. Start Cherry and just hit the front, that’s all we need, we are losing so much momentum and territory every bloody game.

This is why he was moved to 10 fwiw.

Really?lol

Yes. Only think laugh out loud today was Kinghorn still unable to catch a high ball.

Worst problem was losing our own line out.

Cherry should start against Ireland as we will have the same paucity of ball, so we need to hold on to it. The fact someone is brilliant in the loose is fucking pointless when we don’t have any ball - and the guy who’s meant to be brilliant in the loose is responsible for losing half the decent ball we have!

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:23 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:12 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:01 pm

The back row were poor. Made zero impact at breakdown. Beating a defender means bugger all when it allowed him to make a grand total of no yards in the provisional stats.

agreed (I was trying to make the point that it is just fucking weird to say someone had a bad game and can't play at this level when they actually had a decent game). tho, I think it's weird not to acknowledge 100% tackles

do you think competing at the breakdown would have been a good idea? I don't.

I think players picking targeted rucks to compete would have helped at times otherwise there is little point playing a specialist 7. Each of our back row made little impact. At least Dempsey carried hard.

Plenty players make 100% of tackles these days.

exactly. two of the starting back row did. one didn't. I thought it was really weird in that game to criticise one of the ones who did and not the one who didn't.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:41 pm Worst problem was losing our own line out.

Cherry should start against Ireland as we will have the same paucity of ball, so we need to hold on to it. The fact someone is brilliant in the loose is fucking pointless when we don’t have any ball - and the guy who’s meant to be brilliant in the loose is responsible for losing half the decent ball we have!

completely agree

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:41 pm Worst problem was losing our own line out.

Cherry should start against Ireland as we will have the same paucity of ball, so we need to hold on to it. The fact someone is brilliant in the loose is fucking pointless when we don’t have any ball - and the guy who’s meant to be brilliant in the loose is responsible for losing half the decent ball we have!

Losing 2 of the 4 we lost with no one evening jumping was a complete systematic failure. Really not sure what went on but as it happened with both hookers there were definitely system errors.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:41 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:23 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:34 pm

This is why he was moved to 10 fwiw.

Really?lol

Yes. Only think laugh out loud today was Kinghorn still unable to catch a high ball.

he was going for balls with a great chase and under a lot of pressure

but do you really think they moved him to ten because he's weak under the high ball and can't tackle (what you said)? Because that would be crazy

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:46 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:41 pm

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:23 pm

Really?lol

Yes. Only think laugh out loud today was Kinghorn still unable to catch a high ball.

he was going for balls with a great chase and under a lot of pressure

but do you really think they moved him to ten because he's weak under the high ball and can't tackle (what you said)? Because that would be crazy

Yeah that’s nonsense

Ref was determined not to give offside against Wales in the last passage.

Woke up this morning without the air of crushing disappointment that I was expecting.

Really enjoyed that game, result aside. Especially the first half. Despite early errors I felt we dealt with SA quite well. The errors will happen, you want to minimise them for sure but it's really about how you deal with errors when they happen.

When we finally found some space and had Darcy tearing away with a beautiful dummy, Kinghorn and IrnDhu to his left, perfect situation. It was at this point that my wife had to gently remind me that we had everything bar the front door open, and that our neighbours have young kids, and that me shouting "Graham you greedy ****" was perhaps not nice.

Those 2 scrums towards the end of the half switched me right into excited and optimistic. At half time, as I was crapping on about how it was knockout level stuff and that Scotland get better in 2nd halves, that the wife (as English as they come but supports Scotland at rugby) decided it was time to head upstairs and do something else. Sensing the inevitable fall, something she has come to know so well and yet somehow I don't. So now it was just me and the dog, who at this point was also giving me some questionable looks.

We just couldn't live with them as they found another gear in Q3. Quite an even contest really, that 15-20mins after half time aside.

Perhaps my expectations are too low, but I'm not unhappy with the performance.

It's a bit harsh of me to pick out Finn, who I though had a very good game, but I did think he might have some more answers to the Boks plan for him. Even as I write this though I do think that I'm making an unfair comment.