NPR

Rumors of Team for Saturday

Only real surprise would be White dropping out completely of the 23

Forwards:
Schoe
Turner
Z Fagerson
Gray
Gilchrist
Ritchie
Darge
Dempsey

Backs:
Price
Russell
Duhan
Tuipulotu
Jones
Graham
Kinghorn

Bench:
Ashman
Sutherland
Nel
Cummings
M Fagerson
Luke Crosbie
Horne
Smith

I'd go all out and start Horne, I'd have Watson ahead of Crosbie but I'd not be upset with that side.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:50 pm I'd go all out and start Horne, I'd have Watson ahead of Crosbie but I'd not be upset with that side.

I'd probably go with Watson starting and Darge on the bench with Crosbie dropping out. 9 is a tough call.

I'm not sure I've even been thinking about a match for so long before it kicks off. It has been in my head fairly constantly for 10 days and work has definitely suffered this week!

Strangely it hasn't really figured with me that Ireland need to win this as well (or within 7 points obvs). That fact fills me with dread, I just can't see this current Ireland team messing it up - potentially if we had to win but they were already through we could catch them off guard, but just can't see us winning at all.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:39 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:50 pm I'd go all out and start Horne, I'd have Watson ahead of Crosbie but I'd not be upset with that side.

I'd probably go with Watson starting and Darge on the bench with Crosbie dropping out. 9 is a tough call.

Watson and Darge in the same 23 gives no real cover at 6/8. Can't do it.

Edinburgh Rugby team to face Bath Rugby at Hive Stadium in the Scottish Building Society Pre-Season Series
Friday 6 October (kick-off 7.30pm)
15. Nathan Sweeney
14. Ross McCann
13. Wes Goosen
12. Mark Bennett
11. Jordan Edmunds
10. Cammy Scott
9. Ben Vellacott CAPTAIN
1. Boan Venter
2. Patrick Harrison
3. Angus Williams
4. Glen Young
5. Jamie Hodgson
6. Tom Dodd
7. Connor Boyle
8. Cameron Neild
Replacements
16. Adam McBurney
17. Robin Hislop
18. D’Arcy Rae
19. Liam McConnell
20. Mitch Eadie
21. Charlie Shiel
22. Charlie Savala
23. Chris Dean
24. Matt Currie

Unavailable: Luan de Bruin (back), Dave Cherry (concussion), Jake Henry (knee), James Lang (calf), Ben Muncaster (knee), Harry Paterson (ankle), Marshall Sykes (hand), Tim Swiel (ankle).

International selection: Ewan Ashman, Javan Sebastian, Pierre Schoeman, WP Nel, Sam Skinner, Grant Gilchrist, Luke Crosbie, Jamie Ritchie, Hamish Watson, Viliame Mata, Ben Healy, Blair Kinghorn, Darcy Graham, Duhan van der Merwe, Emiliano Boffelli.


The league starts in two weeks, we need to get these guys playing league-level rugby sharpish

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:56 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:39 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:50 pm I'd go all out and start Horne, I'd have Watson ahead of Crosbie but I'd not be upset with that side.

I'd probably go with Watson starting and Darge on the bench with Crosbie dropping out. 9 is a tough call.

Watson and Darge in the same 23 gives no real cover at 6/8. Can't do it.

Fagerson is still there

Well, I guess that's it. Final throw of the dice. I guess it's good news that GT knows what our best team is, and any tinkering is around positions of relative strength, where we could easily play any of the players in question and still be happy.

Will it be enough to beat Ireland? No. They're just too efficient, too good at what they do, and they don't make enough errors for us to capitalise. We have the backs to frighten anyone, but SA have shown that if you deny them any ball then there isn't much they can do.

I think we'll keep it tight for a half, as we did in the 6N. But as we did in that game, and v SA, we'll leak a couple of tries in quick succession and the game will be over as a contest. We'll lose by 15.

I really hope I'm wrong, but let's face it. I'm not.

PS: much as it would bring me immense joy if Sexton's last cap for Ireland was in a first loss to Scotland.

I am trying as hard as I can not to get excited and hopeful. I need to 'Keep the Heid', and not expect anything so I'm not miserable and inconsolable afterwards but, but, but.....
We'll be in the game, currently we always play better than I fear we will, we'll put together some good passages of play and our defense will be pleasingly resilient. Hope will emerge and I can stand anything but hope, please no hope....

If I'm honest I'm already focussing on the Six Nations. Beat Wales in the first game and it's on for a Grand Slam decider in Dublin - against an Ireland without Sexton and a host of others who will retire after the World Cup.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:47 am If I'm honest I'm already focussing on the Six Nations. Beat Wales in the first game and it's on for a Grand Slam decider in Dublin - against an Ireland without Sexton and a host of others who will retire after the World Cup.

My mind has wondered to the 6N. Will the Russell/Redpath club combo be replicated at international level, who will be the back up THP, which players will have retired from international duty etc.

Match preview for Ireland v Scotland:

Part 1
https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/202 ... view-pt-i/

Part 2
https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/202 ... -to-heads/

It dawned on me writing a response on another thread. I don't think Scotland have that landmark win in a world cup where we outperformed expectations.

In 91 we beat Ireland in the groups when we were better than them and Western Samoa in the QFs as would be expected. We've lost twice to Argentina when closely matched. It's actually quite depressing.

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:30 pm It dawned on me writing a response on another thread. I don't think Scotland have that landmark win in a world cup where we outperformed expectations.

In 91 we beat Ireland in the groups when we were better than them and Western Samoa in the QFs as would be expected. We've lost twice to Argentina when closely matched. It's actually quite depressing.

From 2003 onwards when the world rankings were introduced, the only time we've beaten a top 10 ranked side was 9th placed Italy in 2007. We basically chucked the game against New Zealand the week before to prioritise the Italians and still only scraped through with 6 pens from Mossy!

You lads are depressing as fuck.

Embra beat Bath 31 - 5, decent hit out before the league starts against Dragons next week

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:20 pm Embra beat Bath 31 - 5, decent hit out before the league starts against Dragons next week

Just on my way back from it with inactionman. Edinburgh absolutely dominated them in the first half and then didn’t quite get up for it in the 2nd. Only recognised about 6 players over the 2 teams and Bath have another pre season game tomorrow night against Exeter!

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:57 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:20 pm Embra beat Bath 31 - 5, decent hit out before the league starts against Dragons next week

Just on my way back from it with inactionman. Edinburgh absolutely dominated them in the first half and then didn’t quite get up for it in the 2nd. Only recognised about 6 players over the 2 teams and Bath have another pre season game tomorrow night against Exeter!

Niche interest, but how did Rae get on?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:59 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:57 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:20 pm Embra beat Bath 31 - 5, decent hit out before the league starts against Dragons next week

Just on my way back from it with inactionman. Edinburgh absolutely dominated them in the first half and then didn’t quite get up for it in the 2nd. Only recognised about 6 players over the 2 teams and Bath have another pre season game tomorrow night against Exeter!

Niche interest, but how did Rae get on?

Edinburgh scrum was pushing them back at will in the first half, not so much (or at all) in the second. Rae was on for the second half. Make of that what you will - full front row change at half time with Rae replacing Williams, McBurney replacing Harrison and Hislop replacing Venter.

Second row took a lot of Bath line out ball, not absolutely sure if it was Hodgson or Young or a combination of them.

Scott has been excellent at ten both this week and last.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:10 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:59 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:57 pm

Just on my way back from it with inactionman. Edinburgh absolutely dominated them in the first half and then didn’t quite get up for it in the 2nd. Only recognised about 6 players over the 2 teams and Bath have another pre season game tomorrow night against Exeter!

Niche interest, but how did Rae get on?

Edinburgh scrum was pushing them back at will in the first half, not so much (or at all) in the second. Rae was on for the second half. Make of that what you will - full front row change at half time with Rae replacing Williams, McBurney replacing Harrison and Hislop replacing Venter.

Second row took a lot of Bath line out ball, not absolutely sure if it was Hodgson or Young or a combination of them.

Scott has been excellent at ten both this week and last.

I've always liked Venter and Harrison, if Williams is stepping up that is great news. I'd still like us to push the boat out for Sutherland if we can. I don't rate De Bruin much.
If Williams is better than Rae then so be it.

Sounds good about the line out.

Scott got very good write ups last week, I really hope we've found the messiah this time, though Healy will be the guy in the shirt as soon as he arrives.

edit, there is a guy in the academy whose name escapes me, he plays ten or fifteen I think, an Aussie guy. I saw some footage of him and he looks very promising

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:15 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:10 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:59 pm


Niche interest, but how did Rae get on?

Edinburgh scrum was pushing them back at will in the first half, not so much (or at all) in the second. Rae was on for the second half. Make of that what you will - full front row change at half time with Rae replacing Williams, McBurney replacing Harrison and Hislop replacing Venter.

Second row took a lot of Bath line out ball, not absolutely sure if it was Hodgson or Young or a combination of them.

Scott has been excellent at ten both this week and last.

I've always liked Venter and Harrison, if Williams is stepping up that is great news. I'd still like us to push the boat out for Sutherland if we can. I don't rate De Bruin much.
If Williams is better than Rae then so be it.

Sounds good about the line out.

Scott got very good write ups last week, I really hope we've found the messiah this time, though Healy will be the guy in the shirt as soon as he arrives.

edit, there is a guy in the academy whose name escapes me, he plays ten or fifteen I think, an Aussie guy. I saw some footage of him and he looks very promising

Isaac Coates?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:59 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:57 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:20 pm Embra beat Bath 31 - 5, decent hit out before the league starts against Dragons next week

Just on my way back from it with inactionman. Edinburgh absolutely dominated them in the first half and then didn’t quite get up for it in the 2nd. Only recognised about 6 players over the 2 teams and Bath have another pre season game tomorrow night against Exeter!

Niche interest, but how did Rae get on?

What he said….

One thing I did notice, and interested if Biffer agrees, but the ref seemed very happy to let scrums be dominant without the need to blow a penalty. Quite a few times we were waiting for the inevitable whistle and he just let it play out.

I thought it was great but wondered if it was a new directive or just the ref

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:36 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:15 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:10 pm

Edinburgh scrum was pushing them back at will in the first half, not so much (or at all) in the second. Rae was on for the second half. Make of that what you will - full front row change at half time with Rae replacing Williams, McBurney replacing Harrison and Hislop replacing Venter.

Second row took a lot of Bath line out ball, not absolutely sure if it was Hodgson or Young or a combination of them.

Scott has been excellent at ten both this week and last.

I've always liked Venter and Harrison, if Williams is stepping up that is great news. I'd still like us to push the boat out for Sutherland if we can. I don't rate De Bruin much.
If Williams is better than Rae then so be it.

Sounds good about the line out.

Scott got very good write ups last week, I really hope we've found the messiah this time, though Healy will be the guy in the shirt as soon as he arrives.

edit, there is a guy in the academy whose name escapes me, he plays ten or fifteen I think, an Aussie guy. I saw some footage of him and he looks very promising

Isaac Coates?

I think Jack Hocking is the Aussie. Born in Scotland at least but moved to Oz when he was 3 and now back over here. Be interesting to see where he settles position wise.

Having watched Damien McKenzie last night if there's youngsters with the right skillset maybe it's best not to just pigeon hole them into one or other position. A fully rounded 10/15 is properly viable and also incredibly useful to have in a squad and on the pitch.

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:52 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:59 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:57 pm

Just on my way back from it with inactionman. Edinburgh absolutely dominated them in the first half and then didn’t quite get up for it in the 2nd. Only recognised about 6 players over the 2 teams and Bath have another pre season game tomorrow night against Exeter!

Niche interest, but how did Rae get on?

What he said….

One thing I did notice, and interested if Biffer agrees, but the ref seemed very happy to let scrums be dominant without the need to blow a penalty. Quite a few times we were waiting for the inevitable whistle and he just let it play out.

I thought it was great but wondered if it was a new directive or just the ref

This is an area I’d love to see reffed differently. A dominant scrum is a potent attacking weapon in itself. Why do we grant it the additional advantage of making it a way to milk penalties too?

Mind you, I would happily replace a lot of penalties with free kicks.

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:30 pm It dawned on me writing a response on another thread. I don't think Scotland have that landmark win in a world cup where we outperformed expectations.

In 91 we beat Ireland in the groups when we were better than them and Western Samoa in the QFs as would be expected. We've lost twice to Argentina when closely matched. It's actually quite depressing.

We haven’t. We have won when expected to win and lost when expected to lose. When it has been marginal (Japan last time out and Argentina as you say) we have generally lost.

Our chances for a ‘statement’ win were v England in 1991 and v Australia in 2015. We all know what happened onnthose occasions.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 9:17 am

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:30 pm It dawned on me writing a response on another thread. I don't think Scotland have that landmark win in a world cup where we outperformed expectations.

In 91 we beat Ireland in the groups when we were better than them and Western Samoa in the QFs as would be expected. We've lost twice to Argentina when closely matched. It's actually quite depressing.

We haven’t. We have won when expected to win and lost when expected to lose. When it has been marginal (Japan last time out and Argentina as you say) we have generally lost.

Our chances for a ‘statement’ win were v England in 1991 and v Australia in 2015. We all know what happened onnthose occasions.

We shat the bed the first time, the ref shat the bed the second time.

If there’s no bedshitting we stand a chance.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:45 am

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:52 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:59 pm


Niche interest, but how did Rae get on?

What he said….

One thing I did notice, and interested if Biffer agrees, but the ref seemed very happy to let scrums be dominant without the need to blow a penalty. Quite a few times we were waiting for the inevitable whistle and he just let it play out.

I thought it was great but wondered if it was a new directive or just the ref

This is an area I’d love to see reffed differently. A dominant scrum is a potent attacking weapon in itself. Why do we grant it the additional advantage of making it a way to milk penalties too?

Mind you, I would happily replace a lot of penalties with free kicks.

Totally agreed.

I'd love to see a situation where, instead of a penalty being awarded because of a scrum infringement, there were a different kind of free kick, with eight players from each side required to stay bound until the kick or tap has been taken.

A potential 40m + possession just seems too much of a penalty for a scrum offence.

topofthemoon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 11:52 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:36 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:15 pm



I've always liked Venter and Harrison, if Williams is stepping up that is great news. I'd still like us to push the boat out for Sutherland if we can. I don't rate De Bruin much.
If Williams is better than Rae then so be it.

Sounds good about the line out.

Scott got very good write ups last week, I really hope we've found the messiah this time, though Healy will be the guy in the shirt as soon as he arrives.

edit, there is a guy in the academy whose name escapes me, he plays ten or fifteen I think, an Aussie guy. I saw some footage of him and he looks very promising

Isaac Coates?

I think Jack Hocking is the Aussie. Born in Scotland at least but moved to Oz when he was 3 and now back over here. Be interesting to see where he settles position wise.

Having watched Damien McKenzie last night if there's youngsters with the right skillset maybe it's best not to just pigeon hole them into one or other position. A fully rounded 10/15 is properly viable and also incredibly useful to have in a squad and on the pitch.

Jack Hocking, that’s the laddie I was thinking of

I know what you mean about pigeon holing, I was made to play tighthead but I was born to be a scrum half, apart from the pace and the passing I had all the skills

charltom wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 9:45 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:45 am

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:52 pm

What he said….

One thing I did notice, and interested if Biffer agrees, but the ref seemed very happy to let scrums be dominant without the need to blow a penalty. Quite a few times we were waiting for the inevitable whistle and he just let it play out.

I thought it was great but wondered if it was a new directive or just the ref

This is an area I’d love to see reffed differently. A dominant scrum is a potent attacking weapon in itself. Why do we grant it the additional advantage of making it a way to milk penalties too?

Mind you, I would happily replace a lot of penalties with free kicks.

Totally agreed.

I'd love to see a situation where, instead of a penalty being awarded because of a scrum infringement, there were a different kind of free kick, with eight players from each side required to stay bound until the kick or tap has been taken.

A potential 40m + possession just seems too much of a penalty for a scrum offence.

If we reduce the influence of the scrum we’re halfway to playing League. Fuck that.

Second on pitch official to do the other side of the scrum and the offside line. I’m certain scrums take longer in the middle of the field, where you don’t have a touch judge looking at the other side from the ref and making calls.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:27 am

charltom wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 9:45 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:45 am

This is an area I’d love to see reffed differently. A dominant scrum is a potent attacking weapon in itself. Why do we grant it the additional advantage of making it a way to milk penalties too?

Mind you, I would happily replace a lot of penalties with free kicks.

Totally agreed.

I'd love to see a situation where, instead of a penalty being awarded because of a scrum infringement, there were a different kind of free kick, with eight players from each side required to stay bound until the kick or tap has been taken.

A potential 40m + possession just seems too much of a penalty for a scrum offence.

If we reduce the influence of the scrum we’re halfway to playing League. Fuck that.

Second on pitch official to do the other side of the scrum and the offside line. I’m certain scrums take longer in the middle of the field, where you don’t have a touch judge looking at the other side from the ref and making calls.

Nah. As I said above, the scrum is a massive weapon and will continue to be even if we stop awarding penalties to teams just because they have a stronger pack. I fully agree that being able to buckle your opposite number at scrum time shouldn’t give you points or field position + possession half way down the pitch. Give a free kick instead.

On scrums, for me teams get pinged at times just for going backwards then the refs make a penalty fit. Going backwards isn't illegal. Most of the time there is an offence but if frustrates me when 8 guys are getting pushed backwards, mostly in allighnemnt and the refs give a penalty because the attacking 8 hasn't controlled the ball properly and it gets messy.

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:46 am On scrums, for me teams get pinged at times just for going backwards then the refs make a penalty fit. Going backwards isn't illegal. Most of the time there is an offence but if frustrates me when 8 guys are getting pushed backwards, mostly in allighnemnt and the refs give a penalty because the attacking 8 hasn't controlled the ball properly and it gets messy.

Yep, I’d agree with that. There seems to be a mindset amongst refs that the only way you can go forward is if something illegal is happening. The ‘use it’ instruction should be used more.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 11:01 am

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:46 am On scrums, for me teams get pinged at times just for going backwards then the refs make a penalty fit. Going backwards isn't illegal. Most of the time there is an offence but if frustrates me when 8 guys are getting pushed backwards, mostly in allighnemnt and the refs give a penalty because the attacking 8 hasn't controlled the ball properly and it gets messy.

Yep, I’d agree with that. There seems to be a mindset amongst refs that the only way you can go forward is if something illegal is happening. The ‘use it’ instruction should be used more.

This.

Ffs

This is not going well

If the line out isn’t working then I’m not convinced Gray should be in this team

Even bleaker view, if not new, is that this means only one qualification from group stages in the last four world cups

Okay, I'll say it. Darge has had an appalling WC. Not up to it at all.

We aren't as good as Ireland and once again haven't seemingly tried anything different.

Some players were OKish, some were poor. Some of the younger lads (Darge and Smith) will hopefully come out of this stronger. Some of the older heads were really disappointing.

Another world cup without doing anything telling.

Hopefully the injuries aren't bad.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:30 pm If the line out isn’t working then I’m not convinced Gray should be in this team

Wouldn't be surprised if both locks retire from international rugby.