NPR

weegie01 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:08 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:20 amThere are players coming through, and as has been pointed out, it’s improving the general standard that will make us better, not finding another Hogg or Russell. At Edinburgh I’m looking to guys like Harrison, Boyle, Muncaster, Dodd, Scott, Currie etc, and that’s without going to the academy. Similar at Glasgow. We have an awful habit of thinking if someone isn’t killing it at 20, well fuck them, they’re useless. Scotland fans seem to be completely digital when it comes to young players when the truth is more analogue.

Cammy Scott is a case in point.

He was two years below my son at school. He was always looked on as a decent player, but that was about it. Yet he has just kept on getting better. Not just better than he was, but better relative to his peers. He may not break through, but right now anyone watching the two of them would think Scott was the pro player, not Savala.

Based on the selections in the friendlies he's definitely leaped ahead of Savala in the coaches' eyes and he'll probably be starting the first few league games if Swiel is injured and Kinghorn/Healy are unavailable.

robmatic wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 5:45 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:08 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:20 amThere are players coming through, and as has been pointed out, it’s improving the general standard that will make us better, not finding another Hogg or Russell. At Edinburgh I’m looking to guys like Harrison, Boyle, Muncaster, Dodd, Scott, Currie etc, and that’s without going to the academy. Similar at Glasgow. We have an awful habit of thinking if someone isn’t killing it at 20, well fuck them, they’re useless. Scotland fans seem to be completely digital when it comes to young players when the truth is more analogue.

Cammy Scott is a case in point.

He was two years below my son at school. He was always looked on as a decent player, but that was about it. Yet he has just kept on getting better. Not just better than he was, but better relative to his peers. He may not break through, but right now anyone watching the two of them would think Scott was the pro player, not Savala.

Based on the selections in the friendlies he's definitely leaped ahead of Savala in the coaches' eyes and he'll probably be starting the first few league games if Swiel is injured and Kinghorn/Healy are unavailable.

Yeah, he looked good the last two weeks.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:41 pm Sometimes I really hate Tom English. He loves nothing more than to put the boot in after a Scotland defeat. But I’m grimly satisfied to note him repeating exactly what we’ve all been saying here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67047942

- No plan B
- We’ll never be title contenders if we can only play one way
- The psychological blow of not taking any points from the period where we dominated territory and possession
- Our wingers have no effect on games if their service is shut down
- That we could play the game again, making all the opposite choices, and it wouldn’t have mattered.

His final kick in the face is to say that this is as good as it’s getting, because our U20s are shite and Ireland’s are amazing. This is where I slightly beg to differ. Our crappy playing numbers mean that our age group sides generally aren’t up to much, as the depth just isn’t there, but that doesn’t mean that we won’t be able to field a decent full team in 5 years. What it does mean is that the overall level of talent and ability in our team will be far below that of the real top teams. As we have also discussed.

We don't have a "plan B" because we don't have a big enough pack to steamroller sides.

There's no plan anything if your pack are being beaten the way ours is Vs Ireland every game. What plan B do people want? Ireland are just better than us, South Africa are just bigger than us. We're actually good against everyone else mostly (except maybe NZ).

It's boring writing from a boring journalist. He loves writing about how we're improving and could be title challengers (nobody actually thinks that) then writing his annual: no plan B, not actual contenders, when we lose to an obviously bigger and better team,

I know it’s heresy to say this, but I’m not sure Darge should be starting for us, Ritchie is already a ground hog and what we need on the other side is some who can do that but who is also a carrier, whether that is Fagerson, Crosbie, Bayliss, I’m not sure Christie it either, but we need something else.
I miss peak Bradbury, he should have been ideal for that jersey.

I feel for Crosbie. He started in our two best performances of the 6N and was then dropped without having done anything much wrong. He has since struggled to get any game time at all.

Darge was on fire but currently isn’t. I think Mish would have been better in that shirt v Ireland. None of this would have made a difference though - partly because Ireland are too good for us, partly because our game plan sucked.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:33 am I know it’s heresy to say this, but I’m not sure Darge should be starting for us, Ritchie is already a ground hog and what we need on the other side is some who can do that but who is also a carrier, whether that is Fagerson, Crosbie, Bayliss, I’m not sure Christie it either, but we need something else.
I miss peak Bradbury, he should have been ideal for that jersey.

The only two forwards (for different reasons) that come out of the RWC with what should be a firm grip on their jersey are Fagerson (no one else) and Dempsey. No one else really impressed enough to demand keeping the shirt based on current performance.

I am really hoping Walker, Sykes, Henderson, Muncaster and the likes have a realy break out season.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:33 am I know it’s heresy to say this, but I’m not sure Darge should be starting for us, Ritchie is already a ground hog and what we need on the other side is some who can do that but who is also a carrier, whether that is Fagerson, Crosbie, Bayliss, I’m not sure Christie it either, but we need something else.
I miss peak Bradbury, he should have been ideal for that jersey.

Think I agree, he's had a quiet tournament.

Probably clutching at thin air here, but hopefully the early exit gives the coaches more time for a re-think and that elusive Plan B.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:33 am I know it’s heresy to say this, but I’m not sure Darge should be starting for us, Ritchie is already a ground hog and what we need on the other side is some who can do that but who is also a carrier, whether that is Fagerson, Crosbie, Bayliss, I’m not sure Christie it either, but we need something else.
I miss peak Bradbury, he should have been ideal for that jersey.

I’d have gone with a back row of Fargerson, Dempsey and Watson on Saturday.

Fagerson has been incredibly unlucky during a period in which he has been playing his best rugby - Dempsey gets 8 by a baw hair and the captain is in his other position

The other question is why no one was at their peak, except maybe Dempsey, over the RWC?

No one really performed above expectation and even if calling for Sutherland over Schoeman, Cummings to start, any combo at flanker or centre or wing it isn't really based on anything concrete. The last time they really put in a performance was France in the warm ups.

I think the coaches do need asked about why have we again left a RWC without firing a shot.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:31 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:33 am I know it’s heresy to say this, but I’m not sure Darge should be starting for us, Ritchie is already a ground hog and what we need on the other side is some who can do that but who is also a carrier, whether that is Fagerson, Crosbie, Bayliss, I’m not sure Christie it either, but we need something else.
I miss peak Bradbury, he should have been ideal for that jersey.

The only two forwards (for different reasons) that come out of the RWC with what should be a firm grip on their jersey are Fagerson (no one else) and Dempsey. No one else really impressed enough to demand keeping the shirt based on current performance.

I am really hoping Walker, Sykes, Henderson, Muncaster and the likes have a realy break out season.

I thought Schoeman was clearly better than the other loose head options. He wasn't at his very best, but the others did nothing to challenge the shirt.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:05 pm The other question is why no one was at their peak, except maybe Dempsey, over the RWC?

No one really performed above expectation and even if calling for Sutherland over Schoeman, Cummings to start, any combo at flanker or centre or wing it isn't really based on anything concrete. The last time they really put in a performance was France in the warm ups.

I think the coaches do need asked about why have we again left a RWC without firing a shot.

I don't think it's accurate to say we didn't fire a shot, we scored a hundred and thirty points in two games against the fourth and fifth seeds, about a dozen fewer than Ireland did and about 20 fewer than South Africa. To be honest it doesn't make a lot of difference once you get to those numbers.

We were shut down by South Africa's and Ireland's defences, to my mind South Africa would not be able to blitz us if they were retreating behind the offside line and that all comes from how quick your ruck ball is. Ireland were getting told to "leave it" at our rucks but by that time the damage is done, the ball is slow and the Irish forward's had accomplished their task. I remember Warburton saying this very thing, when he heard "leave it" he knew he had done what was required of him.

We stopped committing so many players to the breakdown and that improved our penalty count, but it has come at he expense of quick ball (and a few really easy pilfers for the opposition). I don't know what the numbers were like on Saturday in terms of how many seconds before Ireland got the ball away from the base but quick ball has been crucial to Ireland's rise to top of the heap, along with a miserly defence that gives away nothing.

It's been miserable watching the other half of the draw develop and knowing full well that we are very probably better than all four qualifiers, however it's equally frustrating knowing that in the task we were given we have failed without barely firing a shot, and that is just so bloody Scottish

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:49 pm It's been miserable watching the other half of the draw develop and knowing full well that we are very probably better than all four qualifiers, however it's equally frustrating knowing that in the task we were given we have failed without barely firing a shot, and that is just so bloody Scottish

Yup, we have done the minimum, and we could probably have beaten Tonga and definitely beaten Romania with many of the combinations available in the squad and probably 10 that were left at home.

it is what it is, but it is hard dealing with that when it is in a sporting context.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:49 pm It's been miserable watching the other half of the draw develop and knowing full well that we are very probably better than all four qualifiers, however it's equally frustrating knowing that in the task we were given we have failed without barely firing a shot, and that is just so bloody Scottish

We have all known for 3 years that this was the group of death for us - that it contained the two sides whose styles we find it hardest to counter (I think we’d have run NZ closer). We don’t have the same bother playing against (for example) France.

Having said that, the flipside is that we have had 3 years to come up with a plan for how we approach games against those two sides, given that what we normally do has been proven not to work, and we fairly clearly haven’t come up with anything of the sort.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:05 pm The other question is why no one was at their peak, except maybe Dempsey, over the RWC?

No one really performed above expectation and even if calling for Sutherland over Schoeman, Cummings to start, any combo at flanker or centre or wing it isn't really based on anything concrete. The last time they really put in a performance was France in the warm ups.

I think the coaches do need asked about why have we again left a RWC without firing a shot.

It’s a good point. I had made the observation a couple of weeks back that it players in the Ireland side that hadn’t been performing brilliantly over the last 12 months - Ringrose, Aki, Furlong, Porter, for instance - had arrived at the WC in the form of their lives

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:30 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:05 pm The other question is why no one was at their peak, except maybe Dempsey, over the RWC?

No one really performed above expectation and even if calling for Sutherland over Schoeman, Cummings to start, any combo at flanker or centre or wing it isn't really based on anything concrete. The last time they really put in a performance was France in the warm ups.

I think the coaches do need asked about why have we again left a RWC without firing a shot.

It’s a good point. I had made the observation a couple of weeks back that it players in the Ireland side that hadn’t been performing brilliantly over the last 12 months - Ringrose, Aki, Furlong, Porter, for instance - had arrived at the WC in the form of their lives

Is this down to coaching? Or just plain good fortune?

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:35 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:30 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:05 pm The other question is why no one was at their peak, except maybe Dempsey, over the RWC?

No one really performed above expectation and even if calling for Sutherland over Schoeman, Cummings to start, any combo at flanker or centre or wing it isn't really based on anything concrete. The last time they really put in a performance was France in the warm ups.

I think the coaches do need asked about why have we again left a RWC without firing a shot.

It’s a good point. I had made the observation a couple of weeks back that it players in the Ireland side that hadn’t been performing brilliantly over the last 12 months - Ringrose, Aki, Furlong, Porter, for instance - had arrived at the WC in the form of their lives

Is this down to coaching? Or just plain good fortune?

No idea. I presume you’re always trying to get your players to peak but I imagine most of it is down to luck.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:35 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:30 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:05 pm The other question is why no one was at their peak, except maybe Dempsey, over the RWC?

No one really performed above expectation and even if calling for Sutherland over Schoeman, Cummings to start, any combo at flanker or centre or wing it isn't really based on anything concrete. The last time they really put in a performance was France in the warm ups.

I think the coaches do need asked about why have we again left a RWC without firing a shot.

It’s a good point. I had made the observation a couple of weeks back that it players in the Ireland side that hadn’t been performing brilliantly over the last 12 months - Ringrose, Aki, Furlong, Porter, for instance - had arrived at the WC in the form of their lives

Is this down to coaching? Or just plain good fortune?

Coaching and preparation is a big part of it - it's taken Ireland a very, very long time to get this right. Remember the last two world cups they were said to have peaked a year early and then underperformed.

It's been said a million times and it's not wrong, the gap between the top four and the rest is huge, we are just about in the lead of the chasing pack, I'd fancy us against anyone other than those four sides right now, but it's pretty close between us, Wales and England and matches could go either way without it being a shock.

We could prepare all we like and we wouldn't have the tools to deal with South Africa or Ireland, France have beaten South Africa once since 2010 and that was a couple of months ago, prior to that South Africa were capable of some howler results.

Australia seem to do ok against SA, but that is mainly at home and certainly not with the side Eddie Jones picked for this tournament.

This is not "settling" for anything, I think it's just realistic that until we have more dynamic ball carriers, a more effective defence and much better execution around the ruck area and very dependable set pieces we will not be challenging those top four - do we have the players to do that? Would any other coach have gotten more out of this group?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:58 pm It's been said a million times and it's not wrong, the gap between the top four and the rest is huge, we are just about in the lead of the chasing pack, I'd fancy us against anyone other than those four sides right now, but it's pretty close between us, Wales and England and matches could go either way without it being a shock.

We could prepare all we like and we wouldn't have the tools to deal with South Africa or Ireland, France have beaten South Africa once since 2010 and that was a couple of months ago, prior to that South Africa were capable of some howler results.

Australia seem to do ok against SA, but that is mainly at home and certainly not with the side Eddie Jones picked for this tournament.

This is not "settling" for anything, I think it's just realistic that until we have more dynamic ball carriers, a more effective defence and much better execution around the ruck area and very dependable set pieces we will not be challenging those top four - do we have the players to do that? Would any other coach have gotten more out of this group?

Agree wholeheartedly TH.

My only quibble with coaching is the lineout has been a problem for as long as I can remember but no coach seems to be able to fix it.

But on the whole the idea we could compete with Ireland and SA with a plan B or one change in the team selection is laughable. If we were in the two joke pools the other side of the draw we'd be through probably as group winners.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:44 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:58 pm It's been said a million times and it's not wrong, the gap between the top four and the rest is huge, we are just about in the lead of the chasing pack, I'd fancy us against anyone other than those four sides right now, but it's pretty close between us, Wales and England and matches could go either way without it being a shock.

We could prepare all we like and we wouldn't have the tools to deal with South Africa or Ireland, France have beaten South Africa once since 2010 and that was a couple of months ago, prior to that South Africa were capable of some howler results.

Australia seem to do ok against SA, but that is mainly at home and certainly not with the side Eddie Jones picked for this tournament.

This is not "settling" for anything, I think it's just realistic that until we have more dynamic ball carriers, a more effective defence and much better execution around the ruck area and very dependable set pieces we will not be challenging those top four - do we have the players to do that? Would any other coach have gotten more out of this group?

Agree wholeheartedly TH.

My only quibble with coaching is the lineout has been a problem for as long as I can remember but no coach seems to be able to fix it.

But on the whole the idea we could compete with Ireland and SA with a plan B or one change in the team selection is laughable. If we were in the two joke pools the other side of the draw we'd be through probably as group winners.

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting we should be beating those two sides. There's no shame in playing well and losing to a better team. I just don't think the team or the players played that well in the RWC.

When was the last they put in a performance that was better than we expected in a RWC? That doesn't need to be a win, it doesn't even have to be a particularly tight scoreline either.

Wasn't calling for the coaching staff heads, just think is merits a line of questioning at press conferences/interview.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:58 pm It's been said a million times and it's not wrong, the gap between the top four and the rest is huge, we are just about in the lead of the chasing pack, I'd fancy us against anyone other than those four sides right now, but it's pretty close between us, Wales and England and matches could go either way without it being a shock.

We could prepare all we like and we wouldn't have the tools to deal with South Africa or Ireland, France have beaten South Africa once since 2010 and that was a couple of months ago, prior to that South Africa were capable of some howler results.

Australia seem to do ok against SA, but that is mainly at home and certainly not with the side Eddie Jones picked for this tournament.

This is not "settling" for anything, I think it's just realistic that until we have more dynamic ball carriers, a more effective defence and much better execution around the ruck area and very dependable set pieces we will not be challenging those top four - do we have the players to do that? Would any other coach have gotten more out of this group?

I’d fancy us against France too. Because they don’t play in a style we can’t handle and so we don’t have any hangups about playing them. It’s literally Ireland and SA. Not saying we would beat NZ, and we haven’t played them often in recent years, but our last few games with them were tight and settled by a score or less. This is not the case with Ireland.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:23 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:44 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:58 pm It's been said a million times and it's not wrong, the gap between the top four and the rest is huge, we are just about in the lead of the chasing pack, I'd fancy us against anyone other than those four sides right now, but it's pretty close between us, Wales and England and matches could go either way without it being a shock.

We could prepare all we like and we wouldn't have the tools to deal with South Africa or Ireland, France have beaten South Africa once since 2010 and that was a couple of months ago, prior to that South Africa were capable of some howler results.

Australia seem to do ok against SA, but that is mainly at home and certainly not with the side Eddie Jones picked for this tournament.

This is not "settling" for anything, I think it's just realistic that until we have more dynamic ball carriers, a more effective defence and much better execution around the ruck area and very dependable set pieces we will not be challenging those top four - do we have the players to do that? Would any other coach have gotten more out of this group?

Agree wholeheartedly TH.

My only quibble with coaching is the lineout has been a problem for as long as I can remember but no coach seems to be able to fix it.

But on the whole the idea we could compete with Ireland and SA with a plan B or one change in the team selection is laughable. If we were in the two joke pools the other side of the draw we'd be through probably as group winners.

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting we should be beating those two sides. There's no shame in playing well and losing to a better team. I just don't think the team or the players played that well in the RWC.

When was the last they put in a performance that was better than we expected in a RWC? That doesn't need to be a win, it doesn't even have to be a particularly tight scoreline either.

Wasn't calling for the coaching staff heads, just think is merits a line of questioning at press conferences/interview.

Australia in 2015 you'd have to say was the last better than expected match at a rwc.

Did the team play well Vs Ireland and SA? No. When have Scotland played well against Ireland and SA? Been a very long time. Those two teams are just much better than we are.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:23 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:44 pm

Agree wholeheartedly TH.

My only quibble with coaching is the lineout has been a problem for as long as I can remember but no coach seems to be able to fix it.

But on the whole the idea we could compete with Ireland and SA with a plan B or one change in the team selection is laughable. If we were in the two joke pools the other side of the draw we'd be through probably as group winners.

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting we should be beating those two sides. There's no shame in playing well and losing to a better team. I just don't think the team or the players played that well in the RWC.

When was the last they put in a performance that was better than we expected in a RWC? That doesn't need to be a win, it doesn't even have to be a particularly tight scoreline either.

Wasn't calling for the coaching staff heads, just think is merits a line of questioning at press conferences/interview.

Australia in 2015 you'd have to say was the last better than expected match at a rwc.

Did the team play well Vs Ireland and SA? No. When have Scotland played well against Ireland and SA? Been a very long time. Those two teams are just much better than we are.

Nobody is denying they are better. We’re all frustrated because we don’t seem able to adapt our style even a little bit when we play them, meaning that we deny ourselves even the smallest chance of an upset.

There has literally never been a time that NZ weren’t better than us. That hasn’t stopped us running them close on a number of recent occasions. It can be done.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:26 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:23 pm

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting we should be beating those two sides. There's no shame in playing well and losing to a better team. I just don't think the team or the players played that well in the RWC.

When was the last they put in a performance that was better than we expected in a RWC? That doesn't need to be a win, it doesn't even have to be a particularly tight scoreline either.

Wasn't calling for the coaching staff heads, just think is merits a line of questioning at press conferences/interview.

Australia in 2015 you'd have to say was the last better than expected match at a rwc.

Did the team play well Vs Ireland and SA? No. When have Scotland played well against Ireland and SA? Been a very long time. Those two teams are just much better than we are.

Nobody is denying they are better. We’re all frustrated because we don’t seem able to adapt our style even a little bit when we play them, meaning that we deny ourselves even the smallest chance of an upset.

There has literally never been a time that NZ weren’t better than us. That hasn’t stopped us running them close on a number of recent occasions. It can be done.

NZ don't play the power game that Ireland and South Africa do. I think it's why Scotland do quite well against France, we'll play fast and wide with anyone. Ireland and SA don't play fast and wide. They play up front beat you up rugby. So what's the plan against getting beaten up? How do you not get beaten up? With bigger more physical players. Ireland also just have a higher level of technical skill to their game than we do. When a team is bigger and technically better than you there is style of playing to win that game. I don't even know what the slight changes would be to make it more of a contest.

Against SA in that first half we were in the game and butchered one chance and then their power really showed. There's not much that can be done other than Graham passing and the nerves maybe get to SA.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:23 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:44 pm

Agree wholeheartedly TH.

My only quibble with coaching is the lineout has been a problem for as long as I can remember but no coach seems to be able to fix it.

But on the whole the idea we could compete with Ireland and SA with a plan B or one change in the team selection is laughable. If we were in the two joke pools the other side of the draw we'd be through probably as group winners.

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting we should be beating those two sides. There's no shame in playing well and losing to a better team. I just don't think the team or the players played that well in the RWC.

When was the last they put in a performance that was better than we expected in a RWC? That doesn't need to be a win, it doesn't even have to be a particularly tight scoreline either.

Wasn't calling for the coaching staff heads, just think is merits a line of questioning at press conferences/interview.

Australia in 2015 you'd have to say was the last better than expected match at a rwc.

Did the team play well Vs Ireland and SA? No. When have Scotland played well against Ireland and SA? Been a very long time. Those two teams are just much better than we are.

We don't play SA that often so the results are hard to quantify to be fair. Haven't we only played them about twice between 2015 and this WC? We played pretty well two game IIRC but it was 5 years ago.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:50 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:23 pm

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting we should be beating those two sides. There's no shame in playing well and losing to a better team. I just don't think the team or the players played that well in the RWC.

When was the last they put in a performance that was better than we expected in a RWC? That doesn't need to be a win, it doesn't even have to be a particularly tight scoreline either.

Wasn't calling for the coaching staff heads, just think is merits a line of questioning at press conferences/interview.

Australia in 2015 you'd have to say was the last better than expected match at a rwc.

Did the team play well Vs Ireland and SA? No. When have Scotland played well against Ireland and SA? Been a very long time. Those two teams are just much better than we are.

We don't play SA that often so the results are hard to quantify to be fair. Haven't we only played them about twice between 2015 and this WC? We played pretty well two game IIRC but it was 5 years ago.

That's true as during their two years of their just abysmal rugby team we didn't play them then the year before 2019 the world cup we did when Huw Jones had that outrageous try assist then not again until two autumns ago.

But they won that game with power, they then won a world cup with power, beat the Lions with power, beat us with power at Murrayfield, and now beat us with power in Marseille. We just aren't at their level and tactical tweaks here and there won't do anything when their brutes are beating us up.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:58 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:50 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:06 pm

Australia in 2015 you'd have to say was the last better than expected match at a rwc.

Did the team play well Vs Ireland and SA? No. When have Scotland played well against Ireland and SA? Been a very long time. Those two teams are just much better than we are.

We don't play SA that often so the results are hard to quantify to be fair. Haven't we only played them about twice between 2015 and this WC? We played pretty well two game IIRC but it was 5 years ago.

That's true as during their two years of their just abysmal rugby team we didn't play them then the year before 2019 the world cup we did when Huw Jones had that outrageous try assist then not again until two autumns ago.

But they won that game with power, they then won a world cup with power, beat the Lions with power, beat us with power at Murrayfield, and now beat us with power in Marseille. We just aren't at their level and tactical tweaks here and there won't do anything when their brutes are beating us up.

I don't think tactical changes would have helped either. I just feel that we could have had some better performances amongst the defeats.

Hopefully with a rest we'll see them start the domestic season strong and regroup for the 6N. Will be some interesting selection dilemmas.

It's a sad reflection of where we are but we are oot and that is that.

So with an eye turning towards domestic action, how long will the Ed/Glas players be off?

I reckon they will get a full week off, would two be too much, not playing but being back in training?

Edinburgh start away at the Dragons on the 21st, no way will we have internationals for that, probably not for Lions at home on the 28th either, but then we are away to Leinster on 4th of November, I think we'll see some of them at least for that game, I would hope so.

Glasgow have Leinster at home, Connacht away and Stormers at home on those same weekends.

I expect it depends on how much they've played too. I'm looking forward to seeing Healy play but after people banging on about Scott I hope to see him in a couple of games first. Back 3 and backrow going to be a bit raw for first couple of games with Boff and Mata still away too.

I think Embra will see Sebastian, Ashman (he's young), Skinner, Watson and Crosbie all available sooner rather than later.

In the backs Healy would be welcome but likewise I would like to see how Scott is getting on. I hope Kinghorn isn't too bad and it's a regulation RTP protocol. Duhan will need a rest, Graham is one of those players who benefits from playing so he might be available sooner.

Nel, Schoeman, Gilchrist, Ritchie, VDM, Kinghorn and Graham will all get a good few weeks, late November before we see them I think. I reckon Healy, Sebastian, Ashman, Cherry, Watson, will all be available fairly soon.

I’ve just seen a pic on FB of Finn and Cam Redpath rolling out for training with Bath.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:22 pm I’ve just seen a pic on FB of Finn and Cam Redpath rolling out for training with Bath.

When you’re not covered by the SRU, you’ll be thrown straight back in. White was in training at Toulon at the end of last week.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:25 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:22 pm I’ve just seen a pic on FB of Finn and Cam Redpath rolling out for training with Bath.

When you’re not covered by the SRU, you’ll be thrown straight back in. White was in training at Toulon at the end of last week.

Aye, and to be fair if you're paying him a million quid you want Finn playing asap.

I wonder what irons Rory Sutherland has in the fire, I hope he has something lined up.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:25 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:22 pm I’ve just seen a pic on FB of Finn and Cam Redpath rolling out for training with Bath.

When you’re not covered by the SRU, you’ll be thrown straight back in. White was in training at Toulon at the end of last week.

I'd think involving a new fly half in pre-season is pretty important, all else being equal, whether he plays the first matches or not.

eta: that came out wrong - I meant they absolutely have to be involved from a learning calls, set plays, structures perspective.

I think they'll sit out a game or Two but be back pretty quickly all things considered.

They had time off between camps and weren't playing every week so a couple weeks off and some in season management should be fine for most of them.

What World Cup?

It’s all about the footie now

This looks already that we might be on the end of a kicking tonight…. But who knows with this team

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 6:51 pm This looks already that we might be on the end of a kicking tonight…. But who knows with this team

I know there is no such thing as a jinx, but they do seem to do better when I don't watch - should I turn it off?