A place where escape goats go to play
https://notplanetrugby.com/
Great article ta. Always wondered how a scot ended up running clermont so interesting to get the back storywestport wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:32 pm Interesting article - Fantastic read. What a CV he has.
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/the-scot ... sGqvcoVcJs
Really enjoyed that, thankswestport wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:32 pm Interesting article - Fantastic read. What a CV he has.
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/the-scot ... sGqvcoVcJs
Are you though? Really?
Bloody hell, thin skinned much!!!
He gets worse every year.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:34 pmBloody hell, thin skinned much!!!
Bit pathetic really. Any reasonably keen English rugby fan, commentator and journalist will of course know how good Russell can be having seen him play in the 6N and ERC over the years.
A club paying a bloke £1m a year and the whole pundit class declaring that he’ll put bums on seats definitely seems like a case of ‘plucky upstart being given a chance to prove it in the big leagues’ rather than ‘global start signed’. So much of this is in your head
You have to remember that we get a lot of exposure to English commentators and journalists who aren't particularly keen or are simply not getting paid to watch rugby that isn't either the Premiership or England international games and in some cases are comically parochial.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:49 pmBit pathetic really. Any reasonably keen English rugby fan, commentator and journalist will of course know how good Russell can be having seen him play in the 6N and ERC over the years.
I'm looking forward to seeing him help Ojomoh and Lawrence develop their games. They all looked good playing together on Friday.
They have a product that has seen 3 teams in the league go bist. They're selling a product and when a team signs a player on mega money they should be talking him up to help sell the league.
International level stats tooKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 8:11 pm Enjoying the start Edinburgh have made. Still a wee bit harum scarum but you can see Healy trying to add a bit more control.
Connor Boyle starting to look like an international player imo. Tom Dodd looks a good pickup so far.
Yeah, think he was unlucky not to get more turnovers as well, Whitehouse wasn't keen to reward his efforts.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:21 pmInternational level stats tooKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 8:11 pm Enjoying the start Edinburgh have made. Still a wee bit harum scarum but you can see Healy trying to add a bit more control.
Connor Boyle starting to look like an international player imo. Tom Dodd looks a good pickup so far.
https://x.com/edinburghrugby/status/172 ... UZjzgAiO2Q
I find this a bit of an odd take too. When Finn was left out the Scotland squad, the English pundits were much more scathing of that decision than the Scottish pundits were.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:34 pmBloody hell, thin skinned much!!!
I can understand English fans not noticing this to the same extent, but this happens a lot. The bulk of the audience for any media in the UK is England, so that is where the focus is. The lack of knowledge about Scottish players in general, and even ones as prominent as Russell, can be quite startling.robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:28 pmYou have to remember that we get a lot of exposure to English commentators and journalists who aren't particularly keen or are simply not getting paid to watch rugby that isn't either the Premiership or England international games and in some cases are comically parochial.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:49 pmBit pathetic really. Any reasonably keen English rugby fan, commentator and journalist will of course know how good Russell can be having seen him play in the 6N and ERC over the years.
I'm looking forward to seeing him help Ojomoh and Lawrence develop their games. They all looked good playing together on Friday.
Just my take, but most of the critique of Russell for being a showboat seemed to originate from Scottish fans. Most English fans have seen him through numerous 6N tournaments, a number of European games and a Lions tour and rate him highly. He's not an unknown quantity to anyone who follows rugby, and certainly no-one I've spoken to was in any doubt about the abilities of the likes of Russell, Hogg etc before they played in England. Of course we'd not know much about up and coming Scottish players, but this is a British and Irish Lion we're talking about.weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:28 amI can understand English fans not noticing this to the same extent, but this happens a lot. The bulk of the audience for any media in the UK is England, so that is where the focus is. The lack of knowledge about Scottish players in general, and even ones as prominent as Russell, can be quite startling.robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:28 pmYou have to remember that we get a lot of exposure to English commentators and journalists who aren't particularly keen or are simply not getting paid to watch rugby that isn't either the Premiership or England international games and in some cases are comically parochial.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:49 pm
Bit pathetic really. Any reasonably keen English rugby fan, commentator and journalist will of course know how good Russell can be having seen him play in the 6N and ERC over the years.
I'm looking forward to seeing him help Ojomoh and Lawrence develop their games. They all looked good playing together on Friday.
In Russell's case the flash stuff always got noticed. I recall one game for Racing v Northampton when he was being talked about by the commentary team like he was the second coming, but it was all the fancy dan stuff that was focussed on. Most Scots have recognised that, whilst that is important, it is the basics of the job that he underpins that with that make him the player he is. What is striking is how that aspect of his game is now being picked up on by commentators in a way it never (or rarely) was before.
weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:28 amI can understand English fans not noticing this to the same extent, but this happens a lot. The bulk of the audience for any media in the UK is England, so that is where the focus is. The lack of knowledge about Scottish players in general, and even ones as prominent as Russell, can be quite startling.robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:28 pmYou have to remember that we get a lot of exposure to English commentators and journalists who aren't particularly keen or are simply not getting paid to watch rugby that isn't either the Premiership or England international games and in some cases are comically parochial.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:49 pm
Bit pathetic really. Any reasonably keen English rugby fan, commentator and journalist will of course know how good Russell can be having seen him play in the 6N and ERC over the years.
I'm looking forward to seeing him help Ojomoh and Lawrence develop their games. They all looked good playing together on Friday.
In Russell's case the flash stuff always got noticed. I recall one game for Racing v Northampton when he was being talked about by the commentary team like he was the second coming, but it was all the fancy dan stuff that was focussed on. Most Scots have recognised that, whilst that is important, it is the basics of the job that he underpins that with that make him the player he is. What is striking is how that aspect of his game is now being picked up on by commentators in a way it never (or rarely) was before.
inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:48 amJust my take, but most of the critique of Russell for being a showboat seemed to originate from Scottish fans. Most English fans have seen him through numerous 6N tournaments, a number of European games and a Lions tour and rate him highly. He's not an unknown quantity to anyone who follows rugby, and certainly no-one I've spoken to was in any doubt about the abilities of the likes of Russell, Hogg etc before they played in England. Of course we'd not know much about up and coming Scottish players, but this is a British and Irish Lion we're talking about.weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:28 amI can understand English fans not noticing this to the same extent, but this happens a lot. The bulk of the audience for any media in the UK is England, so that is where the focus is. The lack of knowledge about Scottish players in general, and even ones as prominent as Russell, can be quite startling.robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:28 pm
You have to remember that we get a lot of exposure to English commentators and journalists who aren't particularly keen or are simply not getting paid to watch rugby that isn't either the Premiership or England international games and in some cases are comically parochial.
In Russell's case the flash stuff always got noticed. I recall one game for Racing v Northampton when he was being talked about by the commentary team like he was the second coming, but it was all the fancy dan stuff that was focussed on. Most Scots have recognised that, whilst that is important, it is the basics of the job that he underpins that with that make him the player he is. What is striking is how that aspect of his game is now being picked up on by commentators in a way it never (or rarely) was before.
I can only assume you're talking about armchair fans who wave a flag every 6N but wouldn't recognise half the England squad if they bumped into them in the street. I'd perhaps not base my observations on them, as life's too short to argue over anything written in the Daily Mail.
(Initial assumption is you're referring to English premiership games)Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:51 amweegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:28 amI can understand English fans not noticing this to the same extent, but this happens a lot. The bulk of the audience for any media in the UK is England, so that is where the focus is. The lack of knowledge about Scottish players in general, and even ones as prominent as Russell, can be quite startling.robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:28 pm
You have to remember that we get a lot of exposure to English commentators and journalists who aren't particularly keen or are simply not getting paid to watch rugby that isn't either the Premiership or England international games and in some cases are comically parochial.
In Russell's case the flash stuff always got noticed. I recall one game for Racing v Northampton when he was being talked about by the commentary team like he was the second coming, but it was all the fancy dan stuff that was focussed on. Most Scots have recognised that, whilst that is important, it is the basics of the job that he underpins that with that make him the player he is. What is striking is how that aspect of his game is now being picked up on by commentators in a way it never (or rarely) was before.
Yeah, he's not the "Maverick" that he keeps being labelled as, his preparation is meticulous - "the more I practice the luckier I get" kind of thing.
On the wider issue and to paraphrase something that an Englishman once said to me, the people who are in the majority, especially a huge majority, don't know or understand what it's like to be from the minority part of a group. English people do tend to miss when England and Britain or UK is used synonymously, though to be fair that is happening less now. Even having lived in England for almost thirty years I still notice things, like I notice when Scottish players rarely get a mention in premiership games, or they are glossed over, this is mainly Healy and Dayglo right enough, but it's others like Flatman too. Healy knows his own shortcomings so there is a bit off leeway there, Dayglo is just an arse. No doubt some will come back at me with one or two examples, but they are exceptions, Hogg got a lot of publicity at Exeter for example, but I'm talking about a long term overview from decades of watching sport from here.
It's not something I'm bitter about, despite what it might read like, it's just a phenomenon I've witnessed
I'm talking about day-today, chewing-the-fat discussions on this thread, not Lions selections.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:57 aminactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:48 amJust my take, but most of the critique of Russell for being a showboat seemed to originate from Scottish fans. Most English fans have seen him through numerous 6N tournaments, a number of European games and a Lions tour and rate him highly. He's not an unknown quantity to anyone who follows rugby, and certainly no-one I've spoken to was in any doubt about the abilities of the likes of Russell, Hogg etc before they played in England. Of course we'd not know much about up and coming Scottish players, but this is a British and Irish Lion we're talking about.weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:28 am
I can understand English fans not noticing this to the same extent, but this happens a lot. The bulk of the audience for any media in the UK is England, so that is where the focus is. The lack of knowledge about Scottish players in general, and even ones as prominent as Russell, can be quite startling.
In Russell's case the flash stuff always got noticed. I recall one game for Racing v Northampton when he was being talked about by the commentary team like he was the second coming, but it was all the fancy dan stuff that was focussed on. Most Scots have recognised that, whilst that is important, it is the basics of the job that he underpins that with that make him the player he is. What is striking is how that aspect of his game is now being picked up on by commentators in a way it never (or rarely) was before.
I can only assume you're talking about armchair fans who wave a flag every 6N but wouldn't recognise half the England squad if they bumped into them in the street. I'd perhaps not base my observations on them, as life's too short to argue over anything written in the Daily Mail.
I'm not so sure about that, come Lions time everyone is fighting their own corner and for their own players to make the squad and that's fine, but you do see things trotted out that were only partially true a long time ago - Hogg was a poor last defender and rubbish under a high ball etc. Whereas in fact he missed one tackle or dropped one high ball about three years prior to the selection.
All fans do this, you see it in discussions over who should make a Scotland squad between Glasgow and Edinburgh fans for example.
inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:09 am(Initial assumption is you're referring to English premiership games)Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:51 amweegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:28 am
I can understand English fans not noticing this to the same extent, but this happens a lot. The bulk of the audience for any media in the UK is England, so that is where the focus is. The lack of knowledge about Scottish players in general, and even ones as prominent as Russell, can be quite startling.
In Russell's case the flash stuff always got noticed. I recall one game for Racing v Northampton when he was being talked about by the commentary team like he was the second coming, but it was all the fancy dan stuff that was focussed on. Most Scots have recognised that, whilst that is important, it is the basics of the job that he underpins that with that make him the player he is. What is striking is how that aspect of his game is now being picked up on by commentators in a way it never (or rarely) was before.
Yeah, he's not the "Maverick" that he keeps being labelled as, his preparation is meticulous - "the more I practice the luckier I get" kind of thing.
On the wider issue and to paraphrase something that an Englishman once said to me, the people who are in the majority, especially a huge majority, don't know or understand what it's like to be from the minority part of a group. English people do tend to miss when England and Britain or UK is used synonymously, though to be fair that is happening less now. Even having lived in England for almost thirty years I still notice things, like I notice when Scottish players rarely get a mention in premiership games, or they are glossed over, this is mainly Healy and Dayglo right enough, but it's others like Flatman too. Healy knows his own shortcomings so there is a bit off leeway there, Dayglo is just an arse. No doubt some will come back at me with one or two examples, but they are exceptions, Hogg got a lot of publicity at Exeter for example, but I'm talking about a long term overview from decades of watching sport from here.
It's not something I'm bitter about, despite what it might read like, it's just a phenomenon I've witnessed
I'm not going to deny your experiences,
Your experiences are different to mine. Fuck me, fancy that. Who would have thought it.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:18 aminactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:09 am(Initial assumption is you're referring to English premiership games)Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:51 am
Yeah, he's not the "Maverick" that he keeps being labelled as, his preparation is meticulous - "the more I practice the luckier I get" kind of thing.
On the wider issue and to paraphrase something that an Englishman once said to me, the people who are in the majority, especially a huge majority, don't know or understand what it's like to be from the minority part of a group. English people do tend to miss when England and Britain or UK is used synonymously, though to be fair that is happening less now. Even having lived in England for almost thirty years I still notice things, like I notice when Scottish players rarely get a mention in premiership games, or they are glossed over, this is mainly Healy and Dayglo right enough, but it's others like Flatman too. Healy knows his own shortcomings so there is a bit off leeway there, Dayglo is just an arse. No doubt some will come back at me with one or two examples, but they are exceptions, Hogg got a lot of publicity at Exeter for example, but I'm talking about a long term overview from decades of watching sport from here.
It's not something I'm bitter about, despite what it might read like, it's just a phenomenon I've witnessed
I'm not going to deny your experiences,
and yet you go on to do just that
inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:20 amYour experiences are different to mine. Fuck me, fancy that. Who would have thought it.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:18 aminactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:09 am
(Initial assumption is you're referring to English premiership games)
I'm not going to deny your experiences,
and yet you go on to do just that
I'm just lost- the commentators make no reference to nationality of players in the English Premiership, it's just not a factor that I can see*. What are you hoping for? A trumpet fanfare every time a Scottish player touches the ball?Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:25 aminactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:20 amYour experiences are different to mine. Fuck me, fancy that. Who would have thought it.
I said in my initial post on this that English people probably don't notice it.
It's honestly something that doesn't bother me any more, I may as well shake my fist at a tree as to try as to try to change this happening. As I think weedgie said, the commentary is aimed at a particular audience, the URC coms is ridiculous too, at the last Leinster Edinburgh game the three Edinburgh tries were mainly being described in terms of where the Leinster players were and what they were doing. It is what it is.
inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:34 amI'm just lost- the commentators make no reference to nationality of players in the English Premiership, it's just not a factor that I can see*. What are you hoping for? A trumpet fanfare every time a Scottish player touches the ball?Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:25 aminactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:20 am
Your experiences are different to mine. Fuck me, fancy that. Who would have thought it.
I said in my initial post on this that English people probably don't notice it.
It's honestly something that doesn't bother me any more, I may as well shake my fist at a tree as to try as to try to change this happening. As I think weedgie said, the commentary is aimed at a particular audience, the URC coms is ridiculous too, at the last Leinster Edinburgh game the three Edinburgh tries were mainly being described in terms of where the Leinster players were and what they were doing. It is what it is.
I can understand certain players get an unwarranted (and sometimes unhealthy) level of attention and some seem to slip under radar, but that's nothing to do with nationality.
* saying 'but you don't notice it;' is nebulous and isn't answering any question - what, specifically and tangibly, am I and presumably tens of thousands of other Englishmen not noticing?
Understood, it's not viable to go through seasons upon seasons.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:52 aminactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:34 amI'm just lost- the commentators make no reference to nationality of players in the English Premiership, it's just not a factor that I can see*. What are you hoping for? A trumpet fanfare every time a Scottish player touches the ball?Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:25 am
I said in my initial post on this that English people probably don't notice it.
It's honestly something that doesn't bother me any more, I may as well shake my fist at a tree as to try as to try to change this happening. As I think weedgie said, the commentary is aimed at a particular audience, the URC coms is ridiculous too, at the last Leinster Edinburgh game the three Edinburgh tries were mainly being described in terms of where the Leinster players were and what they were doing. It is what it is.
I can understand certain players get an unwarranted (and sometimes unhealthy) level of attention and some seem to slip under radar, but that's nothing to do with nationality.
* saying 'but you don't notice it;' is nebulous and isn't answering any question - what, specifically and tangibly, am I and presumably tens of thousands of other Englishmen not noticing?
Okay, but you're going to have to take my word that this is not one incident or match, it is one game of hundreds I've watched over the years in the premiership.
There was a Leicester match in which Matt Scott was playing and he made several very telling contributions to tries his team scored, he was very good defensively too (which in fact was a reason he has been left out of the Scotland squad, but week after week he was playing well for Leicester and he did finally get a recall).
To watch the Tigers on tv you'd barely notice he was playing, all the coms attention was on other players and he barely got any credit or even mention for what he did.
This is not a one-off, it's not about the big star names. As I say it's very noticeable once you see it. I'm pretty sure it's not deliberate on the part of the commentators and pundits, it's just there.
You can either accept this or not, that doesn't change the reality of it. I really don't have the inclination to go back over the many years I've watched televised matches in which Scottish players were there to give more examples, but it is there. When there were more games on tv I'd record them if there were guys in or around the Scotland squad, just to keep an eye on them, so Saints, Glaws, Sarries, Tigers, Ldn Irish, off the top of my head, were regular teams I'd watch, so you'd see them and the opposition, it's not just from watching one team.
inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:03 amUnderstood, it's not viable to go through seasons upon seasons.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:52 aminactionman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:34 am
I'm just lost- the commentators make no reference to nationality of players in the English Premiership, it's just not a factor that I can see*. What are you hoping for? A trumpet fanfare every time a Scottish player touches the ball?
I can understand certain players get an unwarranted (and sometimes unhealthy) level of attention and some seem to slip under radar, but that's nothing to do with nationality.
* saying 'but you don't notice it;' is nebulous and isn't answering any question - what, specifically and tangibly, am I and presumably tens of thousands of other Englishmen not noticing?
Okay, but you're going to have to take my word that this is not one incident or match, it is one game of hundreds I've watched over the years in the premiership.
There was a Leicester match in which Matt Scott was playing and he made several very telling contributions to tries his team scored, he was very good defensively too (which in fact was a reason he has been left out of the Scotland squad, but week after week he was playing well for Leicester and he did finally get a recall).
To watch the Tigers on tv you'd barely notice he was playing, all the coms attention was on other players and he barely got any credit or even mention for what he did.
This is not a one-off, it's not about the big star names. As I say it's very noticeable once you see it. I'm pretty sure it's not deliberate on the part of the commentators and pundits, it's just there.
You can either accept this or not, that doesn't change the reality of it. I really don't have the inclination to go back over the many years I've watched televised matches in which Scottish players were there to give more examples, but it is there. When there were more games on tv I'd record them if there were guys in or around the Scotland squad, just to keep an eye on them, so Saints, Glaws, Sarries, Tigers, Ldn Irish, off the top of my head, were regular teams I'd watch, so you'd see them and the opposition, it's not just from watching one team.
I watched Bath vs Gloucester and the commentators gave praise to Harris for his try and for a number of tackles - however, if you'd have said the praise he received was overshadowed by the almost fanatical levels applied to Carreras you'd be correct. But it's nothing to do with him being Scottish.
You've stated you're keeping a close on Scottish players - the commentators aren't.
On that theme, the Guardian, which is a British newspaper, only covers English professional rugby. Annoys me every time I waste my time clicking through to the rugby section on the website. Newcastle vs Sale is worthy of the column inches, but no matches involving Scottish or Welsh clubs are worth bothering with.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:51 am
On the wider issue and to paraphrase something that an Englishman once said to me, the people who are in the majority, especially a huge majority, don't know or understand what it's like to be from the minority part of a group. English people do tend to miss when England and Britain or UK is used synonymously, though to be fair that is happening less now. Even having lived in England for almost thirty years I still notice things, like I notice when Scottish players rarely get a mention in premiership games, or they are glossed over, this is mainly Healy and Dayglo right enough, but it's others like Flatman too. Healy knows his own shortcomings so there is a bit off leeway there, Dayglo is just an arse. No doubt some will come back at me with one or two examples, but they are exceptions, Hogg got a lot of publicity at Exeter for example, but I'm talking about a long term overview from decades of watching sport from here.
It's not something I'm bitter about, despite what it might read like, it's just a phenomenon I've witnessed
robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:46 pmOn that theme, the Guardian, which is a British newspaper, only covers English professional rugby. Annoys me every time I waste my time clicking through to the rugby section on the website. Newcastle vs Sale is worthy of the column inches, but no matches involving Scottish or Welsh clubs are worth bothering with.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:51 am
On the wider issue and to paraphrase something that an Englishman once said to me, the people who are in the majority, especially a huge majority, don't know or understand what it's like to be from the minority part of a group. English people do tend to miss when England and Britain or UK is used synonymously, though to be fair that is happening less now. Even having lived in England for almost thirty years I still notice things, like I notice when Scottish players rarely get a mention in premiership games, or they are glossed over, this is mainly Healy and Dayglo right enough, but it's others like Flatman too. Healy knows his own shortcomings so there is a bit off leeway there, Dayglo is just an arse. No doubt some will come back at me with one or two examples, but they are exceptions, Hogg got a lot of publicity at Exeter for example, but I'm talking about a long term overview from decades of watching sport from here.
It's not something I'm bitter about, despite what it might read like, it's just a phenomenon I've witnessed