Scotland v France C

[Jock42]

Well done Scotland, but a pyrric victory i would suggest, i would be really concerned if i was a Scotland supporter.

Biggest come back in Scotland's history and with 14 men for the most part of that. Not any more worried than before ko.

[Torquemada 1420]

Having looked at it again, I've changed my mind and I think Graham's try was in fact a knock on. Still, it should never have got to that had Dumorthier defended it a lot better.

[Tichtheid]

Having looked at it again, I've changed my mind and I think Graham's try was in fact a knock on. Still, it should never have got to that had Dumorthier defended it a lot better.

The TMO poured over it for a very long time.

If Graham got lucky there it was balanced out by the TMO going back several phases to a tiny knock on from Graham in order to rule out Kinghorn’s try

[Torquemada 1420]

Having looked at it again, I've changed my mind and I think Graham's try was in fact a knock on. Still, it should never have got to that had Dumorthier defended it a lot better.

The TMO poured over it for a very long time.

If Graham got lucky there it was balanced out by the TMO going back several phases to a tiny knock on from Graham in order to rule out Kinghorn’s try

Like I said, no complaints from me. I always think if you contributed significantly to the position, you deserve less sympathy for reffing vagaries. Dumorthier should have made it a non event by dealing with Graham. Instead, he positioned badly, ran the wrong line back (should have run the direct and blocking line) and should never have been forced off (he's a big lad).

PS for Blackmac, like I said at HT, if Sco actually played some structured rugby, they were still in the game. And I had Sco to win <5.

[LoveOfTheGame]

I was impressed with Scotland in the last 1/4. Just proved that pool B is going to be tough as can be. Add Tonga, Ireland and the Boks, it’s pretty scary.

[dpedin]

First 40mins was awful by Scotland who seemed shocked by the pace of international rugby again! Everyone was about a yard off the pace and struggling with physicality. Our defence was dreadful, kick chase was poor and we were very static and on our heels when defending. I am not sure what was said at half time but it was as if we realised we were the home team and took control of the game and imposed our own game on the French. Once we got a head of steam up and took control then we dominated and looked to play fast, confident and direct rugby with ball in hand. The French didnt score in 2nd half which for me was the key thing. Once we got our strike runners into the game then suddenly the French back 3 looked very exposed and defensively frail.

Going forward I am not sure we have the right mix up front, like others I would prefer to see a different mix in the 2nd row and Darge is now better than Watson who is best now as an impact sub off the bench. For all the deserved criticism of Zander and his red card he does a lot of carrying and grunt work for the team and this will be missed, he is a hefty unit and makes himself known around the park. Scrummaging is probably not his strongest aspect of his game. However a win is a win and the guys deserved it for a big effort playing with 14 men for most of the 2nd half and not letting a dangerous French team score a point.

Next week I suspect we will see weaker team against the French top team which could prove tough!

[Slick]

Having looked at it again, I've changed my mind and I think Graham's try was in fact a knock on. Still, it should never have got to that had Dumorthier defended it a lot better.

The TMO poured over it for a very long time.

If Graham got lucky there it was balanced out by the TMO going back several phases to a tiny knock on from Graham in order to rule out Kinghorn’s try

Like I said, no complaints from me. I always think if you contributed significantly to the position, you deserve less sympathy for reffing vagaries. Dumorthier should have made it a non event by dealing with Graham. Instead, he positioned badly, ran the wrong line back (should have run the direct and blocking line) and should never have been forced off (he's a big lad).

PS for Blackmac, like I said at HT, if Sco actually played some structured rugby, they were still in the game. And I had Sco to win <5.

Aren’t the refs meant to give benefit of the doubt to the attacking team as well?

FWIW, I thought it was a knock on as well and that Darcy’s earlier one was more than a tiny knock on.

[Big D]

First 40mins was awful by Scotland who seemed shocked by the pace of international rugby again! Everyone was about a yard off the pace and struggling with physicality. Our defence was dreadful, kick chase was poor and we were very static and on our heels when defending. I am not sure what was said at half time but it was as if we realised we were the home team and took control of the game and imposed our own game on the French. Once we got a head of steam up and took control then we dominated and looked to play fast, confident and direct rugby with ball in hand. The French didnt score in 2nd half which for me was the key thing. Once we got our strike runners into the game then suddenly the French back 3 looked very exposed and defensively frail.

Going forward I am not sure we have the right mix up front, like others I would prefer to see a different mix in the 2nd row and Darge is now better than Watson who is best now as an impact sub off the bench. For all the deserved criticism of Zander and his red card he does a lot of carrying and grunt work for the team and this will be missed, he is a hefty unit and makes himself known around the park. Scrummaging is probably not his strongest aspect of his game. However a win is a win and the guys deserved it for a big effort playing with 14 men for most of the 2nd half and not letting a dangerous French team score a point.

Next week I suspect we will see weaker team against the French top team which could prove tough!

Watson shouldn't make the WC and that's a hill I'm going to die on.

[Biffer]

The TMO poured over it for a very long time.

If Graham got lucky there it was balanced out by the TMO going back several phases to a tiny knock on from Graham in order to rule out Kinghorn’s try

Like I said, no complaints from me. I always think if you contributed significantly to the position, you deserve less sympathy for reffing vagaries. Dumorthier should have made it a non event by dealing with Graham. Instead, he positioned badly, ran the wrong line back (should have run the direct and blocking line) and should never have been forced off (he's a big lad).

PS for Blackmac, like I said at HT, if Sco actually played some structured rugby, they were still in the game. And I had Sco to win <5.

Aren’t the refs meant to give benefit of the doubt to the attacking team as well?

FWIW, I thought it was a knock on as well and that Darcy’s earlier one was more than a tiny knock on.

I think it was probably a knock on, but they called a try on field, and there wasn’t enough to over turn it. None of the angles showed a clear separation of the hand and ball.

[Tichtheid]

I’ll start by saying that the laws of the game state that the ball should not be thrown forward, that’s the end of it.

However in reality there is a world of difference between, say, Kinghorn’s forward pass which gave us a huge advantage and led to Duhan touching down for a non try and a ball which travels about five centimetres down and about the same forwards before being picked up in the act of taking a pass off your bootlaces.
The latter has no material effect on the game, there was no change in outcome as a result of that dropped ball, no advantage gained as a direct result of the knock on.

It happened three or four phases before Kinghorn scored, there was some directive a couple of years ago saying that unless foul play was involved the ref couldn’t go back more than a set number of phases, though I don’t remember the number.

All this is why I stick by the “tiny knock on” for Graham in the lead up to Kinghorn’s score.

For the avoidance of doubt, he dropped it and he dropped it forward, which I would not argue about if it had been blown for straight away, and it’s not something I’m going to spend days talking about on an internet forum.

[Slick]

Wrong thread

[Yr Alban]

Good to see Ruth Davidson already having a positive impact.

Maybe she could replace Zander at THP. She’s about the right shape, and at least we’d have the satisfaction of watching her get flattened repeatedly

[Blackmac]

Having looked at it again, I've changed my mind and I think Graham's try was in fact a knock on. Still, it should never have got to that had Dumorthier defended it a lot better.

The TMO poured over it for a very long time.

If Graham got lucky there it was balanced out by the TMO going back several phases to a tiny knock on from Graham in order to rule out Kinghorn’s try

Like I said, no complaints from me. I always think if you contributed significantly to the position, you deserve less sympathy for reffing vagaries. Dumorthier should have made it a non event by dealing with Graham. Instead, he positioned badly, ran the wrong line back (should have run the direct and blocking line) and should never have been forced off (he's a big lad).

PS for Blackmac, like I said at HT, if Sco actually played some structured rugby, they were still in the game. And I had Sco to win <5.

Ultimate game of two halves. On the whole, quite pleased. Obviously rusty in the first half but regardless of the composition of the French team, they were still a quality outfit who were totally outplayed by 14 men.

[Yr Alban]

Zander will be missing a good chunk of the world cup.

I honestly don't care, the fud is a liability.

Playing WP means we will be stronger in the scrum. The question is who comes off the bench for the last 30.

[Torquemada 1420]

The TMO poured over it for a very long time.

If Graham got lucky there it was balanced out by the TMO going back several phases to a tiny knock on from Graham in order to rule out Kinghorn’s try

Like I said, no complaints from me. I always think if you contributed significantly to the position, you deserve less sympathy for reffing vagaries. Dumorthier should have made it a non event by dealing with Graham. Instead, he positioned badly, ran the wrong line back (should have run the direct and blocking line) and should never have been forced off (he's a big lad).

PS for Blackmac, like I said at HT, if Sco actually played some structured rugby, they were still in the game. And I had Sco to win <5.

Aren’t the refs meant to give benefit of the doubt to the attacking team as well?

FWIW, I thought it was a knock on as well and that Darcy’s earlier one was more than a tiny knock on.

I don't think there is any such provision since the advent of the TMO? i.e. the ref makes his call and (like cricket) that's what stands unless there is conclusive evidence to the contrary. Which is why the ref's call is so critical........... and I don't like it because most of the time it seems random! IMHO, if the ref needs the TMO, then it should always be treated in doubt and the Laws should clearly state either way which team ALWAYS gets the benefit of the doubt.

[Torquemada 1420]

The TMO poured over it for a very long time.

If Graham got lucky there it was balanced out by the TMO going back several phases to a tiny knock on from Graham in order to rule out Kinghorn’s try

Like I said, no complaints from me. I always think if you contributed significantly to the position, you deserve less sympathy for reffing vagaries. Dumorthier should have made it a non event by dealing with Graham. Instead, he positioned badly, ran the wrong line back (should have run the direct and blocking line) and should never have been forced off (he's a big lad).

PS for Blackmac, like I said at HT, if Sco actually played some structured rugby, they were still in the game. And I had Sco to win <5.

Ultimate game of two halves. On the whole, quite pleased. Obviously rusty in the first half but regardless of the composition of the French team, they were still a quality outfit who were totally outplayed by 14 men.

Yup. As per my previous, I don't think Fra gained anything useful from that game at all. The total lack of game management against 14 men was embarrassing and remains a repeated gripe of mine in T14 where we regularly see sides contrive to lose against 14 men.

[Biffer]

Like I said, no complaints from me. I always think if you contributed significantly to the position, you deserve less sympathy for reffing vagaries. Dumorthier should have made it a non event by dealing with Graham. Instead, he positioned badly, ran the wrong line back (should have run the direct and blocking line) and should never have been forced off (he's a big lad).

PS for Blackmac, like I said at HT, if Sco actually played some structured rugby, they were still in the game. And I had Sco to win <5.

Aren’t the refs meant to give benefit of the doubt to the attacking team as well?

FWIW, I thought it was a knock on as well and that Darcy’s earlier one was more than a tiny knock on.

I don't think there is any such provision since the advent of the TMO? i.e. the ref makes his call and (like cricket) that's what stands unless there is conclusive evidence to the contrary. Which is why the ref's call is so critical........... and I don't like it because most of the time it seems random! IMHO, if the ref needs the TMO, then it should always be treated in doubt and the Laws should clearly state either way which team ALWAYS gets the benefit of the doubt.

Don't know about that. Pretty sure they're only meant to go back a couple of phases for anything that's not serious foul play though.

[Slick]

Aren’t the refs meant to give benefit of the doubt to the attacking team as well?

FWIW, I thought it was a knock on as well and that Darcy’s earlier one was more than a tiny knock on.

I don't think there is any such provision since the advent of the TMO? i.e. the ref makes his call and (like cricket) that's what stands unless there is conclusive evidence to the contrary. Which is why the ref's call is so critical........... and I don't like it because most of the time it seems random! IMHO, if the ref needs the TMO, then it should always be treated in doubt and the Laws should clearly state either way which team ALWAYS gets the benefit of the doubt.

Don't know about that. Pretty sure they're only meant to go back a couple of phases for anything that's not serious foul play though.

I dunno, I thought that had changed.

My usual rule of thumb is "would that piss me off it was the other way around", and in this case, it definitely would.

[Tichtheid]

Here is a PDF from World Rugby which states that the TMO can intervene in incidents "in the immediate two phases of play leading to a try being scored or in the prevention of a try being scored"

It was updated May 2022 and became operational from 1st of July 2022

https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugb ... y-2022.pdf