NPR

tc27 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:07 pm Fuck me 11 more minutes of this

Thanks for pointing that out.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:45 pm Absolutely red. See ya Billy, no World Cup for you.

As far as I can see, first red card of his career. Had a citing dismissed in 2015. 6 week entry point, full mitigation and the last week of the ban substituted for the coaching intervention. So he misses Fiji warm-up and Argentina in the RWC.

Ben Earl is a proper twat isn't he.

First time Sinckler has done anything in an England shirt since 2019?

Yeah, but it ain't all the coach is it.

England were the first and still only NH country to win the world cup. A team that set standards around the world, a flourishing domestic competition producing cup winning teams and exciting players. What happened?

topofthemoon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:09 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:45 pm Absolutely red. See ya Billy, no World Cup for you.

As far as I can see, first red card of his career. Had a citing dismissed in 2015. 6 week entry point, full mitigation and the last week of the ban substituted for the coaching intervention. So he misses Fiji warm-up and Argentina in the RWC.

More's the pity. England would be better off if we had to replace him in the squad.

Ughh no more shots of Borthwicks nose in profile please.

Oh look, we took a quick one and got the Irish on the back foot.

Punishment bleep tests for Care.

Cracking response from Ireland

Really good finish.

That is a mile forward

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:08 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:04 pm That gets the score to something approaching a reflection of the sides dominance.

Sorry England fans; been there & done that from being a supporter watching the coaching / selection /development car crash.

Careful, the last time Eng were this shyte before a WC they stumbled their way to the final

'07 reference? We had much, much better and more self-assured senior players who told the coaches to stuff it for that one. The current crop are all academy products, all they've ever known is 'do what the coach says'. Can't picture any of them telling Borthers he's no longer required as Ashton was back then.

C69 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:14 pm That is a mile forward

It’s so far forward it was caught in next weeks game.

Just what Ireland needed, a kick up the arse, with a lot of players looking seriously undercooked.

Good god England were even more shite than I thought they would be!

Christ, we're shite.

Ireland barely broke a sweat and dealt with us handily.

This has England RWC 2011 stink all over it.

Steward was beaten 3 times for 3 tries as last man. Not all his fault due to Eng defence positioning but he was turned inside out for all 3 I think.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:23 pm This has England RWC 2011 stink all over it.

Yup. Including the blind faith in old past it players who simply don't deserve the faith shown in them.

Billy was absolute dogshit, just like his last match. The red card was a mercy killing. Ridiculous that three very talented 8s was sidelined for someone as far off the pace as Billy, a man with a history of disappointing at world cups and being shite for some time after injury. Borthwick is thick as fuck.

Barely a thing to be happy about. I was appalled by the sheer lack of effort, the number of times we got turned over because of the lack of support and forwards with very very big reputations just jogging towards rucks. There is zero team spirit, zero ambition in attack, zero cohesion in defence, and zero evidence that this coaching team are anything other than wildly, wildly out of their depth. It'd be beyond embarrassing if these guys were amateurs and not extremely highly paid professionals.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:27 pm Steward was beaten 3 times for 3 tries as last man. Not all his fault due to Eng defence positioning but he was turned inside out for all 3 I think.

Yes, he will always get stepped. Not ideal but he brings plenty to make up for it. The real problem is opposition wingers getting the ball in acres of space.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:31 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:27 pm Steward was beaten 3 times for 3 tries as last man. Not all his fault due to Eng defence positioning but he was turned inside out for all 3 I think.

Yes, he will always get stepped. Not ideal but he brings plenty to make up for it. The real problem is opposition wingers getting the ball in acres of space.

Other than his aerial ability, I don't see what else he brings but I've not seen much of him outside of intl and the occasional HEC. Ironically, part of his catching ability is down to his size/height which is what contributes to his immobility.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:34 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:31 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:27 pm Steward was beaten 3 times for 3 tries as last man. Not all his fault due to Eng defence positioning but he was turned inside out for all 3 I think.

Yes, he will always get stepped. Not ideal but he brings plenty to make up for it. The real problem is opposition wingers getting the ball in acres of space.

Other than his aerial ability, I don't see what else he brings but I've not seen much of him outside of intl and the occasional HEC. Ironically, part of his catching ability is down to his size/height which is what contributes to his immobility.

Smith probably made more yards and beat more men in five minutes than Steward managed in two games. And that's not pumping Smith, that's poor quality full back play.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:07 pm That's a bullshit call. Steward got his knees to ground

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:04 pm

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:03 pm Argentina will be rubbing their hands with glee if this is how England are going to be playing in the WC.

Irrelevant. They both get a bye from that pool.

I've been fairly bullish about Argentina being the only threat in our pool regardless of how shit we are, but I'm increasingly thinking we could go down to Japan. Lose a man against them due to a shit high tackle and they could run us off the paddock.

I think that's a long reach. 2015 or 2019 Japan maybe. But they are a shadow of that at present.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:07 pm That's a bullshit call. Steward got his knees to ground

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:04 pm

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:03 pm Argentina will be rubbing their hands with glee if this is how England are going to be playing in the WC.

Irrelevant. They both get a bye from that pool.

I've been fairly bullish about Argentina being the only threat in our pool regardless of how shit we are, but I'm increasingly thinking we could go down to Japan. Lose a man against them due to a shit high tackle and they could run us off the paddock.

Japan are terrible at the moment. In the last month they've lost at home to both Samoa (22 - 24) and Fiji (12 - 35). Samoa might offer a sterner test than Japan, but I agree with Torq, I think England should just about manage to qualify in 2nd place.

Wales might be in more trouble in their group with both Fiji and Georgia to contend with.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:38 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:34 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:31 pm

Yes, he will always get stepped. Not ideal but he brings plenty to make up for it. The real problem is opposition wingers getting the ball in acres of space.

Other than his aerial ability, I don't see what else he brings but I've not seen much of him outside of intl and the occasional HEC. Ironically, part of his catching ability is down to his size/height which is what contributes to his immobility.

Smith probably made more yards and beat more men in five minutes than Steward managed in two games. And that's not pumping Smith, that's poor quality full back play.

Steward has been a decent attacking threat for England actually, he's done fine with ball in hand. His footwork is just good enough to make the most of his size.

Anyway congrats Ireland. That side of the draw is brutal but will provide the champion

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:42 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:38 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:34 pm
Other than his aerial ability, I don't see what else he brings but I've not seen much of him outside of intl and the occasional HEC. Ironically, part of his catching ability is down to his size/height which is what contributes to his immobility.

Smith probably made more yards and beat more men in five minutes than Steward managed in two games. And that's not pumping Smith, that's poor quality full back play.

Steward has been a decent attacking threat for England actually, he's done fine with ball in hand. His footwork is just good enough to make the most of his size.

I felt sorry for Steward, he was beaten one on one by guys who are pretty good, most FBs would be too. He was just exposed by the poor defensive work of his colleagues, Tuliagi and Marchmant in particular were pulled all over the place with Tuliagi continually going off on his own in defence looking for big hits and missing most of them. His back row weren't much more helpful either with Courtney-Lawes and Vunipola just too slow as the game went on.

At point after Smith came on he made a decent break then slowed down looking for support and there was none, he then got clobbered. Steward and Smith are tidy players who suffer most because the crap rugby system they are being asked to play and team mates who just aren't good enough.

One thing I noticed with Ireland is they are very good at placing the ball back after being tackled, really setting up the ruck and next phase nicely.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:31 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:27 pm Steward was beaten 3 times for 3 tries as last man. Not all his fault due to Eng defence positioning but he was turned inside out for all 3 I think.

Yes, he will always get stepped. Not ideal but he brings plenty to make up for it. The real problem is opposition wingers getting the ball in acres of space.

He has to commit enough to make the corner if the winger just goes for it, players inside him are supposed to cover the inside step. Down to 14 men it's a lot tougher to make the ground.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:57 pm One thing I noticed with Ireland is they are very good at placing the ball back after being tackled, really setting up the ruck and next phase nicely.

This 100% ... plus having a speedy SH who gets to the breakdown quickly and zips the ball away means Ireland are always changing the point of attack and creating problems for other teams defences. England ruck speed was about double the Irish one and you can see this in the pace of their respective games. It also means their 10 can sit flatter on the gain line and have a bit more time on the ball to pass or kick. Ford had a difficult day with slow ball often behind the game line.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:16 pm I’m picking this is going to be closer than many who may have written off England.

No Farrell on team sheet suggests they know where it’s going, or it’s too much of a distraction.

They’ve had to plan around no Farrell, so assume they’ve trained for that.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:56 pm Keet's looking a bit like the black Zebo. Unflattering shirt or has he been at the buffet during camp?

They are all massive. Clearly a conditioning priority.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:57 pm One thing I noticed with Ireland is they are very good at placing the ball back after being tackled, really setting up the ruck and next phase nicely.

Ball placement after the tackle is neglected in the pro game.

I'm not one for stats, but surely we must be the team with the most red cards in this world cup cycle.

We just can't keep 15 on the pitch.

Another poor match all round, we seem to be the new Wales in dragging teams down to our shiteheap level. Sorry Ireland.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:56 am Clumsy from Billy. Porter has a running style that sees him get clocked constantly. He runs low and has a step. That tackle is it in microcosm. It will keep happening though I wonder how the French get around it. They go high all the time but seem to manage to brace in a way that only sees them get pinged the odd time. Englands technique is fucked in the head

The French players (and everyone else bar England) attempt to wrap the arm?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:15 am

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:56 am Clumsy from Billy. Porter has a running style that sees him get clocked constantly. He runs low and has a step. That tackle is it in microcosm. It will keep happening though I wonder how the French get around it. They go high all the time but seem to manage to brace in a way that only sees them get pinged the odd time. Englands technique is fucked in the head

The French players (and everyone else bar England) attempt to wrap the arm?

Kept a close eye on that yesterday and bar one lazy arm from Atonio (lucky because I thought it merited yellow), everyone else was getting low. Jalibert, who is known as something of a weak defender, put in 8 tackles in his 20 mins and missed none: Fiji had done their homework and targeted him. None was a remotely offensive tackle but in the best traditions of Dan Carter, he did his job and left the turnover stuff to everyone else.