NPR

Fonz wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:33 pm Scotland should be pleased with this overall I think. Not a perfect performance but let’s be honest it’s hard for Tier 1 teams to really get their tail up against a Tier 2 side. They’ve stretched their legs a bit and have had some nice passages of play. Mission accomplished IMO

Lots of loose stuff and the line-out has been very inconsistent.

Much to improve.

Fonz wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:33 pm Scotland should be pleased with this overall I think. Not a perfect performance but let’s be honest it’s hard for Tier 1 teams to really get their tail up against a Tier 2 side. They’ve stretched their legs a bit and have had some nice passages of play. Mission accomplished IMO

Yeah, I agree. We don’t do massively dominant performances against anyone and Tonga have been pretty awful to play against, so not disappointed

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:35 pm The bunker will come back and say it is actually a yellow for Scotland

And a Tongan penalty try.

Right, let’s finish with a nice try and move on please

Apparently you sound like Bulls supporters now

He was the joint tackler, Dickson you twat.

Nice Darcy.

Nicely done wee darcy.

Totally over rated

Bloutoria wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:38 pm Apparently you sound like Bulls supporters now

What, do they all think Tory is a prick as well?

Important try. The betting line was -22.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:38 pm Right, let’s finish with a nice try and move on please

You were saying.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:38 pm Right, let’s finish with a nice try and move on please

I should basically be coach

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:41 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:38 pm Right, let’s finish with a nice try and move on please

You were saying.

thought I’d lost that one

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:41 pm Nice. Probably should have had a few more but Tonga never collapsed fully

Yeah agree, in fact just texted the same to my mum.

Not sure Ireland will be quaking in their boots but job done and a few glimmers of decent stuff

More frustrated with the reffing decisions than anything Scotland did or didn't do. They allowed the game to descend into Tongans trying to play whackamole with Scotland's heads.

Be lucky if Ritchie is the only one that spends time on the sidelines.

Dempsey continues to be consistently good for Scotland. At the end a few too many selfish or isolated plays to be worked on. Turner perhaps a little lucky in the first half not being pinged for some throws, but play the ref.

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:48 pm More frustrated with the reffing decisions than anything Scotland did or didn't do. They allowed the game to descend into Tongans trying to play whackamole with Scotland's heads.

Be lucky if Ritchie is the only one that spends time on the sidelines.

Dempsey continues to be consistently good for Scotland. At the end a few too many selfish or isolated plays to be worked on. Turner perhaps a little lucky in the first half not being pinged for some throws, but play the ref.

Dempsey has been our stand out forward since he pulled on a shirt. Exceptional player.

Bloutoria wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:35 pm Vd Merwe would look great in our backline.

Who would pass the ball to him?

Fonz wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:52 pm
I don’t see how this will solve anything. People aren’t hitting high because the rules permit it, they’re hitting high because it’s inherently advantageous in this sport. In fact, I can’t see how this won’t mean MORE cards and endlessly bickering about how much sanction every single contact should warrant.

I think he said they tried to use sanctions to force a change in behaviour, but it's clear that hasn't worked. You're right, there will be likely more cards (pen at least) in the teething period. But if I'm critical of that first approach, the sanctions haven't been near hard enough to cause players to really stop taking gambles with high shots / being reckless. I think they might actually see widespread change if they sanctioned forceful, mitigation-free head shots the same as they do punching, stomping, tip tackles... which you don't really see any more.

Niegs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:30 pm

Fonz wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:52 pm
I don’t see how this will solve anything. People aren’t hitting high because the rules permit it, they’re hitting high because it’s inherently advantageous in this sport. In fact, I can’t see how this won’t mean MORE cards and endlessly bickering about how much sanction every single contact should warrant.

I think he said they tried to use sanctions to force a change in behaviour, but it's clear that hasn't worked. You're right, there will be likely more cards (pen at least) in the teething period. But if I'm critical of that first approach, the sanctions haven't been near hard enough to cause players to really stop taking gambles with high shots / being reckless. I think they might actually see widespread change if they sanctioned forceful, mitigation-free head shots the same as they do punching, stomping, tip tackles... which you don't really see any more.

Start sanctioning teams with points deductions for persistant offending.

Frustrated. Good win in the end, but should have been much easier. Our lineout continues to be an issue, and there were a bunch of unforced errors that Ireland would make us pay for.

That the first head shot didn’t result in a red card just defies belief. It’s 100% deliberate. He uses his legs to drive upwards directly into the head with his shoulder. No attempt to tackle whatsoever. It was far worse than the one at the end, which was upgraded. One can only assume that the bunker went in with the full intention of finding a reason not to upgrade it, so as not to ‘spoil the game’. So Tonga spent 10 minutes with 14, and we spent an entire half without our captain. South Africa will be the team to benefit from the late red, not Scotland.

It’s all academic anyway. We aren’t going to beat Ireland and we certainly aren’t going to deny them a LBP even if we do. At least our ranking position won’t take much of a hit given they and SA are #1 and #2.

Niegs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:30 pm

Fonz wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:52 pm
I don’t see how this will solve anything. People aren’t hitting high because the rules permit it, they’re hitting high because it’s inherently advantageous in this sport. In fact, I can’t see how this won’t mean MORE cards and endlessly bickering about how much sanction every single contact should warrant.

I think he said they tried to use sanctions to force a change in behaviour, but it's clear that hasn't worked. You're right, there will be likely more cards (pen at least) in the teething period. But if I'm critical of that first approach, the sanctions haven't been near hard enough to cause players to really stop taking gambles with high shots / being reckless. I think they might actually see widespread change if they sanctioned forceful, mitigation-free head shots the same as they do punching, stomping, tip tackles... which you don't really see any more.

Then surely the soloution might be to start the sanctions at a higher level so that the minimum amount of matches a player misses starts at 6 after all mitigations are applied or if certain teams have more reds then the entry levels increases or mitigating factors can be removed so that coaching behaviour changes occur?

Sorry, not too well thought out but if World Rugby are serious about reducing tackle height then they've tried the informing and warning aspects and that hasn't worked so perhaps its now time for harsh punishments.

Townsend pretty furious in the press conference about both this one and the Kriel one

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:19 pm Townsend pretty furious in the press conference about both this one and the Kriel one

Not surprising really. Two really big calls, both against Scotland. Let’s say that Zander Fagerson commits the same offence as the Tongan at the end of the first half. Does anyone seriously think he isn’t getting a red card?

I’m re-watching the game, by the time Ritchie got his jaw battered by the Tongan winger’s shoulder just over the half hour mark, there had already been four off the ball hits from behind or high/late tackles

Only three of the five were penalised and watching the Ritchie one again it is a fucking joke that it wasn’t upgraded to red. There was no late change of height from Ritchie and Kata drove his shoulder up and into Ritchie’s face.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:51 am I’m re-watching the game, by the time Ritchie got his jaw battered by the Tongan winger’s shoulder just over the half hour mark, there had already been four off the ball hits from behind or high/late tackles

Only three of the five were penalised and watching the Ritchie one again it is a fucking joke that it wasn’t upgraded to red. There was no late change of height from Ritchie and Kata drove his shoulder up and into Ritchie’s face.

It really is amazing. He crouches down and uses his legs to drive his shoulder into Ritchie’s head. It’s 100% deliberate. I fail to see how Ritchie’s body position (which didn’t change) makes any difference whatsoever. It’s a blatant red card. It didn’t affect the outcome of the match and probably won’t affect the outcome of the pool, but the message being sent here is that you can do what you like when you’re playing Scotland and get away with it.

Doesn’t just apply to violent conduct either, as shown by the fact that SA were required to stay onside against Ireland.

Tonga are just headhunters and world rugby are not serious about protecting the head. No wonder they'll get destroyed in the upcoming law suits.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:04 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:51 am I’m re-watching the game, by the time Ritchie got his jaw battered by the Tongan winger’s shoulder just over the half hour mark, there had already been four off the ball hits from behind or high/late tackles

Only three of the five were penalised and watching the Ritchie one again it is a fucking joke that it wasn’t upgraded to red. There was no late change of height from Ritchie and Kata drove his shoulder up and into Ritchie’s face.

It really is amazing. He crouches down and uses his legs to drive his shoulder into Ritchie’s head. It’s 100% deliberate. I fail to see how Ritchie’s body position (which didn’t change) makes any difference whatsoever. It’s a blatant red card. It didn’t affect the outcome of the match and probably won’t affect the outcome of the pool, but the message being sent here is that you can do what you like when you’re playing Scotland and get away with it.

Doesn’t just apply to violent conduct either, as shown by the fact that SA were required to stay onside against Ireland.

Having re watched the incident in the cold light of day it is definitely a red card. The Tongan player had no intention of anything other than an illegal tackle and even if Ritchie did drop a little it doesn't negate the Tongan was entering the tackle illegally and with intent to cause harm. The Tongan led with his shoulder with his arm by his side and went from low to high with shoulder with no intention whatsoever of trying to wrap his arms or to tackle at anything like a legal hight. It was clear contact to the head and the tackler has a responsibility to tackle properly and to avoid hitting neck or head area. I have no idea what the feck the bunker was thinking about but this was as clear a red as it is possible to be. Ritchie out for 12 days minimum subject to protocol.