2024 All Blacks

[Jethro]

Has Razor been taking some happy pills or something. Am in full support of the new AB team taking the field saturday, time to mix it up and tell the players no one is guaranteed a place on the field. Looking forward to seeing how this outfit gel.

[handyman]

How many Kiwi's are convinced that Mckenzie is the answer at 10? I saw on Breakdown that some pundits were calling for NZ rugby to get Muanga playing in NZ again.

[Sards]

Surely the Kiwis aren't looking to hang Razor so soon. Geez. So much anger out there.

[Guy Smiley]

How many Kiwi's are convinced that Mckenzie is the answer at 10? I saw on Breakdown that some pundits were calling for NZ rugby to get Muanga playing in NZ again.

Rule 1.

Do not watch The Breakdown. It will steal your intelligence and make the entire human race more stupid.

As for MacKenzie, I’ve said for years that he’s not a Test 10. Razor hinted at that in a press conference a few weeks back when he talked about DMac ‘developing his game’. That’s actually a surprising admission for an AB coach to make… the ABs is not really an environment where you want to be developing players, they should be ready. I can allow that ‘new coach, new ways’ means some time is needed to bed in and much was made of exactly that when they all went into camp for the first time… but I’m also concerned that there’s a possibility Razor feels a need to compromise for whatever reason…

and that reason could be related to the lack of depth we have at 10 currently. I think it’s telling that they’ve left DMac there and shuffled BB onto the bench. I rate his ability as a test 10 somewhere close to DMac and think they both suffer for being too individual in their playing style. They both look to make the break or move first rather than read the game to set up their players and our media, including the arseclowns on the Breakdown, love that ‘razzle dazzle’ shit. Justin Marshall used exactly those words when BB came off the bench last week, FFS.

DMac has improved and does look for opportunities to set outside players up but too often our attack stops with him. Chip kicks and kick passes soon stop being a novelty.


There was talk months ago of getting Mo’unga back somehow despite his three year contract in Japan. It would cost NZR a shitload and potentially cause (more) harm to their professional image. I’m not sure they’ll pursue that. If Mo’unga hadn’t been treated so shabbily by Hansen and then Foster perhaps he’d still be here. Their legacy will last for years…

and allowing emotion into things a little, my gut says some of the current woes with the ABs won’t completely go until BB does. I don’t think he brings much to the game anymore that can’t be done by others and he’s a big part of that toxic legacy that saw a group of players go to the CEO in Jo’burg last year to plead for Foster’s job. A small group within the larger that didn’t consult with all of the senior players before making that unprecedented move. Toxic legacy, right there. Razor needs to lazer that cancer out and he doesn’t yet have the cattle to cover it.

We need to bring more guys through who can play 10 at top level and it’s going to mean some will be impatient with that process. I don’t see any shortcuts. There are players in the wings and we’re going to have to try them out.

[Gumboot]

If Mo’unga hadn’t been treated so shabbily by Hansen and then Foster perhaps he’d still be here. Their legacy will last for years…

and allowing emotion into things a little, my gut says some of the current woes with the ABs won’t completely go until BB does.

Wait... what?

Both Shag and Fozzie handed Mo'unga the reins for six straight years, but his failure to guide us to a RWC win - not once, but twice - is all their fault? Or it's Beauden's fault (we would've lost those England tests without him, btw)? It's gotta be someone elses's fault, but RMo's squeaky clean 'cause he was constantly messed around by the coaches, or the dual-playmaker game plan, or something..?

C'mon now, isn't that just a tad revisionist, mate? I know you hate Beauden with a passion and believe his presence in the starting team cramped RMo's style, but don't you think he bears at least some responsibility for all those decidedly mixed results?

PS fully agree that The Breakdown's utter gash.

[Guy Smiley]

If Mo’unga hadn’t been treated so shabbily by Hansen and then Foster perhaps he’d still be here. Their legacy will last for years…

and allowing emotion into things a little, my gut says some of the current woes with the ABs won’t completely go until BB does.

Wait... what?

Both Shag and Fozzie handed Mo'unga the reins for six straight years, but his failure to guide us to a RWC win - not once, but twice - is all their fault? Or it's Beauden's fault (we would've lost those England tests without him, btw)? It's gotta be someone elses's fault, but RMo's squeaky clean 'cause he was constantly messed around by the coaches, or the dual-playmaker game plan, or something..?

C'mon now, isn't that just a tad revisionist, mate? I know you hate Beauden with a passion and believe his presence in the starting team cramped RMo's style, but don't you think he bears at least some responsibility for all those decidedly mixed results?

PS fully agree that The Breakdown's utter gash.

All I said was that he was treated shabbily by those two coaches. I never included any claim to his actual performance as an AB...

but I contest your assertion about being handed the reins...

from Wiki,

Mo'unga made his official test debut on 23 June 2018 against France during the France test series where he replaced Damian McKenzie in the 69th minute. The All Blacks won 49–14. Mo'unga made his first ever start for New Zealand during Round 3 of the competition, on 8 September 2018. Mo'unga led the All Blacks to a 46-24 victory over Argentina by scoring 16 of the team's points. Mo'unga only missed one kick on the night and lasted the full 80 minutes.

Mo'unga's starting performance against Argentina saw him temporarily overtake Damian McKenzie, as backup to regular starter Beauden Barrett. This saw Mo'unga feature off the bench against Argentina and South Africa in the final two rounds of the competition. Mo'unga replaced winger Waisake Naholo, in the 51st minute against South Africa, with Ben Smith moved to wing, and Beauden Barrett moved into fullback, to accommodate for Mo'unga at first-five. Mo'unga took kicking duties off Barrett, who had missed a drop goal during the match. Mo'unga converted Ardie Savea's last minute try, after the 80th minute, winning the game for the All Blacks, making the final result against South Africa 32-30.[13] Mo'unga finished as one of the highest points scorers of the Rugby Championship, with 24 points. This ranked Mo'unga 6th of all the points scorers.

Mo'unga remained unable to become a regular starter for New Zealand on the 2018 end of year tour. After replacing McKenzie in the third Bledisloe Cup test, against Australia, in a 37-20 win, Mo'unga earned a start against Japan on 3 November. Mo'unga scored 22 points during New Zealand's 69-31 win over Japan, including his first international try. Mo'unga stayed on for the full 80 minutes, with debutant first-five, Brett Cameron, instead replacing Waisake Naholo, although Utility Back, Jordie Barrett, did kick some goals towards the end of the test against Japan, in which Mo'unga was one of the best performers.[14]

He made an appearance in every test on the end of year tour, coming off the bench in the final three, which were wins against England and Italy, as well as a 9-16 loss to Ireland.

Named in the All Blacks squad for the 2019 Rugby Championship, Mo'unga was named at first-five-eighth after starting fullback Damian Mckenzie was ruled out of the tournament with an ACL injury. The All Blacks starting five-eighth, Beauden Barrett was shifted to fullback, as part of a continuation of the dual playmaker system

far from being handed the reins, Mo'unga was continually treated as second or third fiddle despite all of the one eyed Cantabrians around the country that aren't actually Waikato supporters being able to see he was easily the best natural 10 we had. He made the team only after MacKenzie blew his knee out and eventually his performances demanded he start at 10, despite the coaches apparent unwillingness to try him.This period included the sledge from the incumbent AB coach of the day (Hansen) that he was only good playing behind a Rolls Royce pack. Clearly, Hansen didn't rate his own AB pack at the time...

I stand by my words... he was treated shabbily. I don't claim he was a sort of Messiah at 10, but he was better than anyone we currently have playing there.

[Gumboot]

This period included the sledge from the incumbent AB coach of the day (Hansen) that he was only good playing behind a Rolls Royce pack. Clearly, Hansen didn't rate his own AB pack at the time...

I stand by my words... he was treated shabbily. I don't claim he was a sort of Messiah at 10, but he was better than anyone we currently have playing there.

Ah come on now, Hansen's "Rolls Royce pack" comment was hardly a sledge, and if Mo'unga took it as such he really needed to grow some scales. On the other hand, I can recall numerous times when Shag lauded RMo's ability. If you can provide any more specific examples of Mo'unga being treated poorly by the coaches, then perhaps I can be persuaded, but until then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

It's all moot anyway - he's no longer here, and Razor's backing DMac to run the show. I firmly believe he's our best available option at 10, and happy to see him given him the rest of the year to prove his chops. And I'm also happy for Beauden to stay in the test squad for now. He's not the player he once was, but he can still play. And I don't think for a second he's mostly responsible for the team's current travails.

[average joe]

You are crippling yourself because you refuse to play foreign based players. I understand that this is a noble philosophy but professionalism in rugby will continue to put more and more pressure on any nation who forces players to stay home for qualification. These men play rugby as a career, and they only have a few years to make a future before being discarded. Opportunities are also few and far between.

[Grandpa]

Unlike pessimistic Jeff Wilson... some optimism from Parsons and Hall...

[Gumboot]

Unlike pessimistic Jeff Wilson... some optimism from Parsons and Hall...

Goldie can't half waffle on, eh. Some of his questions go on forever, and he just can't resist getting all self-important and preachy. The other guests barely get a look-in once he gets going. It's a lightweight show.

The ARP is much better.

[Guy Smiley]

Goldie can't half waffle on, eh. Some of his questions go on forever, and he just can't resist getting all self-important and preachy. The other guests barely get a look-in once he gets going. It's a lightweight show.

The ARP is much better.

Yup... really enjoy watching the ARP they push you a little to think about the game. It's a great show.

[Grandpa]

Goldie can't half waffle on, eh. Some of his questions go on forever, and he just can't resist getting all self-important and preachy. The other guests barely get a look-in once he gets going. It's a lightweight show.

The ARP is much better.

Yup... really enjoy watching the ARP they push you a little to think about the game. It's a great show.

Watching the Breakdown... I don't think I've ever learnt something new about the game of rugby... but as you say, every ARP episode is a school day...

[Jethro]

Surely the Kiwis aren't looking to hang Razor so soon. Geez. So much anger out there.

Sards once again not understand Kiwi humour

[OomStruisbaai]

Goldie can't half waffle on, eh. Some of his questions go on forever, and he just can't resist getting all self-important and preachy. The other guests barely get a look-in once he gets going. It's a lightweight show.

The ARP is much better.

Yup... really enjoy watching the ARP they push you a little to think about the game. It's a great show.

Watching the Breakdown... I don't think I've ever learnt something new about the game of rugby... but as you say, every ARP episode is a school day...

Kirwan with his Bennie Boekwurm glasses. Now I understand why his handling was so kak.

[OomStruisbaai]

You are crippling yourself because you refuse to play foreign based players. I understand that this is a noble philosophy but professionalism in rugby will continue to put more and more pressure on any nation who forces players to stay home for qualification. These men play rugby as a career, and they only have a few years to make a future before being discarded. Opportunities are also few and far between.

This. The Springboks without Kolbey, Kriel, de Allende, Faf, Wiese, PSdT, Kwagga,Lood, Mostert, Marx. That's the heart of the team.

[OomStruisbaai]

Surely the Kiwis aren't looking to hang Razor so soon. Geez. So much anger out there.

Sards once again not understand Kiwi humour

He is the biggest critic of Rassie and Kolisi and all previous coaches not from the Sharks. Even the Sharks coach need to be fire after one loss.

[Gumboot]

You are crippling yourself because you refuse to play foreign based players. I understand that this is a noble philosophy but professionalism in rugby will continue to put more and more pressure on any nation who forces players to stay home for qualification. These men play rugby as a career, and they only have a few years to make a future before being discarded. Opportunities are also few and far between.

This. The Springboks without Kolbey, Kriel, de Allende, Faf, Wiese, PSdT, Kwagga,Lood, Mostert, Marx. That's the heart of the team.

Really? We came close to beating you twice without our overseas based players, so are you suggesting that with them, we would've won easily?

[OomStruisbaai]

You are crippling yourself because you refuse to play foreign based players. I understand that this is a noble philosophy but professionalism in rugby will continue to put more and more pressure on any nation who forces players to stay home for qualification. These men play rugby as a career, and they only have a few years to make a future before being discarded. Opportunities are also few and far between.

This. The Springboks without Kolbey, Kriel, de Allende, Faf, Wiese, PSdT, Kwagga,Lood, Mostert, Marx. That's the heart of the team.

Really? We came close to beating you twice without our overseas based players, so are you suggesting that with them, we would've won easily?

The bom squad without Kwagga and Marx, the starting team without Kolbey, Kriel, Ellendig and PSdT?

[OomStruisbaai]

How many tries and points did they contribute? The impact Kwagga and Marx alone? They made the difference.

[OomStruisbaai]

The difference to the All Blacks if Richie Mo'unga, Aaron Smith, Brodie Retallick was available.

[OomStruisbaai]

Aki and Lowe being available for the All Blacks? There is your answer.

[OomStruisbaai]

Ad a Saffer Klingon I use to think the same way. You shoot yourself in the foot trying to rely on Soup. We don't mind.

[Guy Smiley]

Always interesting to listen to what the coaches have to say in the press conferences ( a far cry from last year), sometimes in the face of some pretty ordinary questions,

[Guy Smiley]

Seat of the pants, on the fly observation...

all the talk coming out of the camp regarding the lack of ability to close games out has centred on experience being the key. The much talked about shift to the bench for BB and Perenara really homed in on that particularly. I guess there's a need to sell the idea of crowd favourites being relegated so that's one angle on it.

My view is that the deficiencies in MacKenzie's ability to hold control of a game for the full 80 is on show and it really came to the fore in the first Bledisloe. A few bad passes on their own isn't the end of the world but a pattern of any sort is a sure pointer to strengths and flaws. Cast your minds back to the awful sequence of events coming from a defensive lineout steal against Argentina, Blackadder wins it, Ardie decides to ignore Ratima right on his shoulder and throws a poor pass in MacKenzie's direction who then throws a no look pass backwards into the space between the two Barrett brothers deep in the 22. There was time to actually play that ball... whether a pointless kick or taking into contact and resetting.

This is a pattern with MacKenzie and I think the presence of Jordie at 12 has been a steadying influence for him. I've really come around to Jordie's strength as a player and a sort of organiser on field. You see him looking around and directing a lot, while he is always chatting to DMac. Losing Jordie at 1/2 time the other day really hurt us... and the game went to shit.

My take has always been that DMac isn't a test 10. He and BB share a similarity in that they are both incredibly talented players with impressive skills but they aren't really game managers in the sense of setting their players up well, passing or kicking to suit the moment as opposed to acting instinctively and acting as individuals... looking to make a break as opposed to finding a player with space. BB's shovel ball has been talked about at length, along with the pass into trouble. Both will run sideways, cramping their outside players. To give DMac credit, he's improved his game in this regard since getting more settled gigs as a 10... but I don't see him really improving from where he's at.

I think we need a different player at 10, someone who can set a backline up and stay consistent over 80 minutes. We've secured the Bledisloe. We can afford to tinker a little and we have the second Bledisloe game and a test against Japan in a month before games against England, Ireland, France and Italy. It's a long tour and provides some room to rest guys and expose others.

In the absence of other strong candidates and depending on fitness, I'd like to see Plummer get a run and Dmac take that bench spot. I don't see BB bringing anything that Jordan isn't doing at 15 but that 12 spot is the key. If Jordie is out (as I write we're awaiting news of a scan result) then we need someone there to steady the line and provide that second kicking option in the midfield.

I'd laugh like merry hell if Havili got a call up

[Gumboot]

Think I questioned a while back why they have both Havili and Plummer in the squad. To me, Plummer offers pretty much everything Havili does, plus he can play 10. Sure, Havili has a number of caps and Plummer only has a handful of playing minutes - did he even touch the ball? - but the more tests Havili played, the more I went off him (Patrick Tuipulotu's another rare example).

Now that it's likely Jordie's gone for Bled 2, why not just slot Plummer into 12? Jordan had a decent game in Sydney and still needs more playing time so keep him at 15, with Beauden on the bench. Whatever they do, I firmly believe they should stick with DMac at 10. I doubt we'll see such a poor passing performance from him again (yes, you can cite the shambles against Argentina, but in that case Ardie's as much to blame, imho), and after all, it was McKenzie who was creating all those chances in the first place!

I hope Hotham gets a run off the bench, but if they pick Perenara at his home ground I wouldn't be surprised if it's his last test, especially with Roigard close to full fitness.

And credit where it's due... I've been a harsh critic of Caleb Clarke, and still worry about his D tbh, but he's clearly worked his arse off since last year and is playing very well. And he's finally doing the most basic thing required of any wing - he's regularly scoring tries. So, well done that man. Keep it up!

[Enzedder]

The rugby championship is gone; the Bled is safe.

Time to experiment. I won't troll the Cantabs (much) if we blow it but lets try Plummer at 10 as we really need a credible backup.

I would give Cane his 100th (and last) match though, as he has earned it over the last few games

[Guy Smiley]

Cane deserves the spot on form alone regardless of sentiment. He’s been immense and it’s been great to watch him sign off at home with a series of masterclasses. I suppose Perenara likewise deserves a home farewell and I’d give it to him out of respect (off the bench). Ratima was incredible against the Wallabies. He tackles like a big man.

I don’t like the sentiment that says we’re sort of locked in with DMac… that certainly seems to have been the case so far under Razor but we need an understudy or two and sticking to the incumbent for ‘reasons’ doesn’t stack up looking at any sort of development.

I’ve said before the ABs isn’t an environment for developing players but there’s been acknowledgment from Razor that MacKenzie is developing his game. There’s also the allowance to make regarding adapting to new coaches and tactics. All well and good… and that allows for playing a new player or two. Likewise, I dunno what the worth of playing Plummer at 12 would be within that context… it does allow him a game or two to adapt to the speed of test rugby for sure but he’s only ever gonna be a stop gap substitute in that position. Tupaea might actually offer more there to be honest.

[Gumboot]

Razor's recent comments suggest they're going to stick with Dmac, but if they do change it up I'd be happy with Plummer getting first shot. No idea how Perofeta's tracking, but he's been out for ages and not sure if they view him as anything more than a fullback at this stage... I just hope they don't bloody revert to Havili.

And when are we gonna see Ruben Love debut? The poor bugger must be jumping out of hhis skin after such a long wait.

[Kiwias]

Going forward, I reckon Razor is looking at Plummer, Perofeta, and Love as the likely first fives, with the advantage that two of them can play fullback as cover for Jordan, who I hope is now the regular starter at 15. Stevenson may still be an option as fullback cover.

[Guy Smiley]

Razor's recent comments suggest they're going to stick with Dmac, but if they do change it up I'd be happy with Plummer getting first shot. No idea how Perofeta's tracking, but he's been out for ages and not sure if they view him as anything more than a fullback at this stage... I just hope they don't bloody revert to Havili.

And when are we gonna see Ruben Love debut? The poor bugger must be jumping out of hhis skin after such a long wait.

Love was injured a week or so back playing for Wellington.

Apparently, Chay Fihaki has been drafted in as cover.

[Gumboot]

Love was injured a week or so back playing for Wellington.

Apparently, Chay Fihaki has been drafted in as cover.

Didn't know that, I hope Love gets capped on the EOYT. Fihaki's an interesting call. Not sure why Narawa's been overlooked... is he also injured?

[ScarfaceClaw]

How many Kiwi's are convinced that Mckenzie is the answer at 10? I saw on Breakdown that some pundits were calling for NZ rugby to get Muanga playing in NZ again.

It only takes one if that one is the All Blacks coach.

[Enzedder]

How many Kiwi's are convinced that Mckenzie is the answer at 10? I saw on Breakdown that some pundits were calling for NZ rugby to get Muanga playing in NZ again.

It only takes one if that one is the All Blacks coach.

I will be very keen to see an extended run from Plummer this weekend if possible.

DMac has his skills but he has to fit in with and lead the team gameplan.

[Kiwias]

How many Kiwi's are convinced that Mckenzie is the answer at 10? I saw on Breakdown that some pundits were calling for NZ rugby to get Muanga playing in NZ again.

It only takes one if that one is the All Blacks coach.

I will be very keen to see an extended run from Plummer this weekend if possible.

DMac has his skills but he has to fit in with and lead the team gameplan.

I'd like to see Plummer start at first five this Saturday, with DMac on the bench to come on late in the game.

[Grandpa]

Parsons and Hall very upbeat on the Aotearoa Rugby Pod... Brynn Hall particularly effusive about McKenzie..

[Gumboot]

Interesting that with all the chatter about the right mix of loosies going forward Papali'i's name hasn't featured much. He's been given plenty of chances to nail the 7 jersey without ever really convincing. Anyone see him as the answer at openside? Or is he just one of several place-holders till they decide Peter Lakai's ready to take over?

In the meantime, our backrow has looked much more balanced in the past couple of tests, and Wallace Sititi looks to the manner born. Having rewatched Blad 1, that boy was bloody everywhere! Maybe Papali'i's best spot is on the bench... he or Blackadder probably offer a bit more impact than Jacobson. Hope they stick with the current starters, though.

[Guy Smiley]

Blackadder's form before he was injured was on par... he and Sititi offer something similar at 6. Sititi could swing to 8, Blackadder could swing to 7. I think they're an ideal combination looking long term. I'd rather not see Papali'i anywhere near it myself, but I'm obviously not privy to coaches' data and discussions.

We are starting to get a clearer idea of where we are lacking depth. At the moment, it's 7 and 10 but if you were to name an extended squad with a back up for each position AND a quality bench I reckon you'd struggle.

[Enzedder]

Surely the Kiwis aren't looking to hang Razor so soon. Geez. So much anger out there.

Nobody really. However, a few of us just love trolling the Cantabs - they are so gullible.

[Enzedder]

It only takes one if that one is the All Blacks coach.

I will be very keen to see an extended run from Plummer this weekend if possible.

DMac has his skills but he has to fit in with and lead the team gameplan.

I'd like to see Plummer start at first five this Saturday, with DMac on the bench to come on late in the game.

Some journos are reporting that it's Barrett doing the main training at 10 this week.

[Kiwias]

I will be very keen to see an extended run from Plummer this weekend if possible.

DMac has his skills but he has to fit in with and lead the team gameplan.

I'd like to see Plummer start at first five this Saturday, with DMac on the bench to come on late in the game.

Some journos are reporting that it's Barrett doing the main training at 10 this week.

I thought it was only the NZ Herald at this point and I thought we all hated the Herald