Hmm. It's the kicker's responsibility to ensure the kick is completed in time. 1 minute is more than enough and the limit was only introduced to cut out the time wasting. Ergo, you want to time waste, it's on your own head if you f**k it up.
Yup. I agree, but it has become yet another aspect of law that’s being applied in a maddeningly and needlessly uneven fashion. Either all stadia should have a shot clock or none should and either all refs should give a countdown or none should.
Ironically, a measure introduced to reduce the amount of time spent with kicks has probably increased it as kickers now watch the clock and wait until there are only a few seconds left before taking the kick so as to waste as much time as possible. If there was no stadium clock or countdown kickers would just have to get on with it and take the kick as quickly as possible with the knowledge that if they delay too long the ref can and will time them out. Rather like when Bernard Foley had a free kick awarded against him by Mathieu Raynal for needlessly wasting time.
A very good point.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:08 pm
by Gumboot
I'm sure DMac took it on his formidable chin and won't be caught short again.
Hardly surprising that he took his time though, given the problems both goalkickers were having. Strange how many kickers seem to find it tricky under the Dunedin roof. Maybe along with a shot clock, they should install flags on the goalposts.
And who knows, maybe if Smith had taken a bit more time, he wouldn't have left 8 points on the park.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:20 pm
by Enzedder
Looking forward to see how Cortez Ratima goes - he has a very quick clearance but will have some immense pressure. The Blues found him out so will better protection from the ABs fronts help him.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 1:49 am
by Gumboot
Enzedder wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:20 pm
Looking forward to see how Cortez Ratima goes - he has a very quick clearance but will have some immense pressure. The Blues found him out so will better protection from the ABs fronts help him.
Would be great to see him get a run this weekend, hopefully starting.
TJ's been officially scratched and Noah Hotham's been brought into the squad.
Enzedder wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:20 pm
Looking forward to see how Cortez Ratima goes - he has a very quick clearance but will have some immense pressure. The Blues found him out so will better protection from the ABs fronts help him.
Would be great to see him get a run this weekend, hopefully starting.
TJ's been officially scratched and Noah Hotham's been brought into the squad.
I must admit to being surprised as I would have thought Fakatava would be next cab off the rank.
Enzedder wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:20 pm
Looking forward to see how Cortez Ratima goes - he has a very quick clearance but will have some immense pressure. The Blues found him out so will better protection from the ABs fronts help him.
Would be great to see him get a run this weekend, hopefully starting.
TJ's been officially scratched and Noah Hotham's been brought into the squad.
I must admit to being surprised as I would have thought Fakatava would be next cab off the rank.
We were all impressed with Hotham's form this year... while he's young and new on the scene, doesn't that form (and the potential he shows) deserve rewarding / trying?
Everyone has some sort of expectation that Razor will spring surprises and unearth some bolter or unheralded talent. This could be one of those cases. Based on what I saw of his form in SupeRugby I'd rather have Hotham out there than Christie. Of course, he could fall flat on his face and fail, you never know, but we have time now to develop combinations and there is a massive upside to Hotham that's worth trying.
Would be great to see him get a run this weekend, hopefully starting.
TJ's been officially scratched and Noah Hotham's been brought into the squad.
I must admit to being surprised as I would have thought Fakatava would be next cab off the rank.
We were all impressed with Hotham's form this year... while he's young and new on the scene, doesn't that form (and the potential he shows) deserve rewarding / trying?
Everyone has some sort of expectation that Razor will spring surprises and unearth some bolter or unheralded talent. This could be one of those cases. Based on what I saw of his form in SupeRugby I'd rather have Hotham out there than Christie. Of course, he could fall flat on his face and fail, you never know, but we have time now to develop combinations and there is a massive upside to Hotham that's worth trying.
I think they'll probably stick with Christie's experience at Eden Park, but hopefully we see Ratima and Hotham play against Fiji.
Fakatava can probably feel a bit unlucky, but there's so much young talent at halfback right now. Fast forwarding to Roigard's return and beyond, it'll be great to have a choice of Ratima, Hotham or Fakatava for the bench halfback. Not sure how much longer Christie will be in the mix after this series, tbh.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:19 am
by Guy Smiley
Fakatava may well look back in later life at the knee injury that scuttled his chances of selection before the last RWC as a life and career turning moment, the poor bugger.
Quite an illuminating insight into his character, more relaxed and at ease than straight after the game. Has some good things to say about the opposition players.
Would be great to see him get a run this weekend, hopefully starting.
TJ's been officially scratched and Noah Hotham's been brought into the squad.
I must admit to being surprised as I would have thought Fakatava would be next cab off the rank.
We were all impressed with Hotham's form this year... while he's young and new on the scene, doesn't that form (and the potential he shows) deserve rewarding / trying?
Everyone has some sort of expectation that Razor will spring surprises and unearth some bolter or unheralded talent. This could be one of those cases. Based on what I saw of his form in SupeRugby I'd rather have Hotham out there than Christie. Of course, he could fall flat on his face and fail, you never know, but we have time now to develop combinations and there is a massive upside to Hotham that's worth trying.
Make no mistake: I am a big fan of Hotham and thought he had a very good SR season, so naturally I am pleased to see him in the AB environment. He has massive potential and could be a 50-test AB [/100 tests!! Ali's Choice].
I just thought Fakatava would be called up first.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 4:57 am
by Guy Smiley
All good mate, I got where you were coming from. I know what you mean... there's a sort of succession order that we probably expect. I admit to a bit of impatience ( I'm an impatient person at the best of times ) with the team personnel and want to see a revolution, some blood in the street and a collection of heads rolling away from the Razor guillotine and a stupid goal kicking grin frozen on one of them but I accept that the earth moves slowly and we should give Razor time and the luxury of some stability as he beds things in.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 5:04 am
by Gumboot
By popular demand, the Eden Park big screen will feature a... shot clock!
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 5:06 am
by Guy Smiley
Gumboot wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 5:04 am
By popular demand, the Eden Park big screen will feature a... shot clock!
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:02 am
by Enzedder
Strange that it wasn't introduced as soon as the time limits were imposed.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:48 pm
by Enzedder
Razor has to come up with a Plan B for the England defence - I reckon we need to move Perofeta in more often to create doubt, even if we skip him. Ioane was barely used in Dunedin and even then our two tries were when he was bypassed.
I also think that our scrummies were too slow clearing the ball giving the English plenty of time to set their defence.
Call it line speed or call it rush defence, it’s the puzzle the All Blacks are trying to unlock as they prepare for their second clash with England this Saturday at Eden Park.
They won 16-15 the first time around in Dunedin, but their only points after the 25th minute were a pair of Damian McKenzie penalties.
Having scored two tries in the early stages – first when McKenzie kicked to a wide open Sevu Reece out on the right, then when Stephen Perofeta stepped around his onrushing marker, before releasing Ardie Savea down the same flank – they were kept out for the next 55 minutes.
“It’s exactly what the aim of it is, isn’t it?” was how assistant coach Jason Holland summed it up this week. “They can put pressure on time and space and skills.
“If you get things wrong – if you haven't got your little things around your skills right or your depth right – then you can get really hurt.
“But we've got a couple of ideas around how we make sure that it's hard to bring line speed, as in you have to go backwards to come forward.
“We've got to get balance with what to do, we can't be predictable. We've got to make sure that we've got a little bit of that in our game – maybe a little bit more than what we had down in Dunedin.”
There were only brief glimpses of Mark Tele’a’s attacking threat last Saturday and he said England’s line speed had posed quite the challenge.
“It's always a hard thing, because you feel like you see so much space and you're just like, oh, can we try to get the ball there, but then that space just goes like that – so fast.
“That's the kind of defence that we're facing and as players you're just trying to adapt to try to get better.”
McKenzie’s kick for Reece caught England out early, but as Holland noted, it’s not as simple as getting the ball as wide as possible as early as possible, with visiting defence coach Felix Jones marshalling his troops well.
“If you start throwing big wide balls over, they're really good at recovering, as you would have seen in the weekend, with our wingers having to chop back in once we threw out to them.
“It's a form of ‘D’ that Felix loves and he's got the English boys really buying into it.
“We've just got to make sure that we're going to wherever the space is when it's there.”
England’s defensive approach has given the new All Blacks coaching group, led by Scott Robertson, a big early test in a year that will be full of them, and loose forward Luke Jacobson stressed the importance of being patient as new methods were blooded in.
“We’ve got a lot of new coaches, and they’ve got different ways they do things and different ways they want to play. There’s new terminology, new strikes … there has been a lot of adjusting.
“The first couple of weeks have been pretty full-on, but as the weeks go on it will get lighter as you don’t need to learn so much.”
As for what they’ve been practicing this week as they prepare to play at a stadium where they haven’t lost since 1994? There’s no secret – it’s dealing with England’s line speed.
“We're working on it,” Telea confirmed. “And we'll see what happens on the weekend.”
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:01 am
by Gumboot
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:03 am
by Gumboot
Christie gets the start with Ratima set to debut off the bench.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:52 am
by OomStruisbaai
England played well in test 1. Can they go better in test 2? No don't think so. One foot on the plane.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:34 am
by Enzedder
So, the same players. Can Razor coach them to get around the rush defence of the English?
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:14 am
by Guy Smiley
Enzedder wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:34 am
So, the same players. Can Razor coach them to get around the rush defence of the English?
One clear exception... no Perenara, so Christie starting.
I'd call that a problem. Christie has been the second 1/2, not a starting player. There's a difference coming on with a tiring opposition to having to run the game from the get go. I don't have much confidence in his selection.
Enzedder wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:34 am
So, the same players. Can Razor coach them to get around the rush defence of the English?
One clear exception... no Perenara, so Christie starting.
I'd call that a problem. Christie has been the second 1/2, not a starting player. There's a difference coming on with a tiring opposition to having to run the game from the get go. I don't have much confidence in his selection.
Yeah, Christie's a servicable player, and his box kicking was on point in Dunedin, but he never looks like threatening to bust a game open the way some of the other halfbacks can. I hope Ratima gets a decent chunk of game time to showcase his talents.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:19 am
by ASMO
OomStruisbaai wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:52 am
England played well in test 1. Can they go better in test 2? No don't think so. One foot on the plane.
Nope, all the while we lack a test standard tighthead, a center who is far from international standard and a journeyman replacement 9, no, they wont be better, pretty sure this will be an easy win for the blacks.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:21 am
by Grandpa
I'm a Blues fan... and I don't understand Christie's continued selection... he's got a serviceable pass and as hell of a box kick and can tackle... but he is one paced and hardly ever makes a break himself... so is very predictable... I would have him as 5th choice, not first. Roigard needs to come back soon!
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:29 pm
by Dan54
Grandpa wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:21 am
I'm a Blues fan... and I don't understand Christie's continued selection... he's got a serviceable pass and as hell of a box kick and can tackle... but he is one paced and hardly ever makes a break himself... so is very predictable... I would have him as 5th choice, not first. Roigard needs to come back soon!
I think if you read your post Grandpa, you will see why he is picked. He's got a good pass, hell of a box kick (and that can't ever be underetimated in today's game), and can tackle. I can understand why he is picked with who is available. Hey I'm not a Blues fan mate, just an AB one at this stage of season so want the ones picked who the coaches think will do the job best for them, regardless of where they from. I pretty convinced I would struggle to think of 4 better halfbacks than him in NZ at this stage. Not saying I don't see him being overtaken at some stage etc, but just I undersatnd why they picking him.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:38 pm
by Guy Smiley
Perenara, Roigard, Fakatava and Hotham.
Took me all of 30 seconds.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:19 pm
by Sandstorm
NZ starting penalty machine De Groot. Brave.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:20 am
by JM2K6
Furbank out, Steward in. That is a huge loss to England, unfortunately.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:28 am
by Gumboot
JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:20 am
Furbank out, Steward in. That is a huge loss to England, unfortunately.
That sucks, he had a great game last week.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:39 am
by Kiwias
JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:20 am
Furbank out, Steward in. That is a huge loss to England, unfortunately.
Damn. I really enjoyed seeing Furbank play.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:43 am
by SaintK
JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:20 am
Furbank out, Steward in. That is a huge loss to England, unfortunately.
Bollocks!! He was a stand out last week.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:50 am
by Margin__Walker
Yeah, it's a real loss. Not just offensively. He was very dialled into the blitz defence too.
Thinking about it, few players have surprised me as much as Furbank in their mid career development. He spent his first few years around the England setup looking a little lucky to be there and only really useful insofar as he could play 10 in an emergency.
Where as the last couple of seasons for Saints and recently for England he's looked superb. Don't want to get too hung up on Steward, as he's got his points of difference that can be useful, but Furbank tends to offer so much more to the team.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:07 am
by Grandpa
Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:38 pm
Perenara, Roigard, Fakatava and Hotham.
Took me all of 30 seconds.
I prefer Funaki and Nock at the Blues as well...
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:42 am
by Hal Jordan
Are we doing a disservice to Steward here? Furbank has looked great, but it's not like Steward wasn't looking pretty good himself, albeit in a slightly different role. It's not like we're picking Balshaw.
I would add Xavier Roe of the Chiefs to Guy's list.
He missed Ratima too... and even Mitch Drummond... hell.. even Dan54 himself!
consummate master of the looping backpass
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:06 am
by Raggs
Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:42 am
Are we doing a disservice to Steward here? Furbank has looked great, but it's not like Steward wasn't looking pretty good himself, albeit in a slightly different role. It's not like we're picking Balshaw.
Steward is very different, that's the issue for me, not his ability. How we integrate him into the attacking game is going to be crucial, hopefully it goes well.
Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:42 am
Are we doing a disservice to Steward here? Furbank has looked great, but it's not like Steward wasn't looking pretty good himself, albeit in a slightly different role. It's not like we're picking Balshaw.
Steward is very different, that's the issue for me, not his ability. How we integrate him into the attacking game is going to be crucial, hopefully it goes well.
Yep. He's a good player. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he had a good game. Elite under the high ball and a decent carrier in traffic and tighter areas for a full back. He's just stylistically very different and you lose out in a few areas. Furbank has much more rounded game
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 11:43 am
by JM2K6
We lose a playmaker who is an excellent defender, and gain a slower, more one dimensional player who is excellent in the air but can be exposed in defence quite often.
He's a different physical threat so hopefully we can see him hitting some hard lines.
Re: All Blacks Vs England Test Series thread
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:04 pm
by Rhubarb & Custard
Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:42 am
Are we doing a disservice to Steward here? Furbank has looked great, but it's not like Steward wasn't looking pretty good himself, albeit in a slightly different role. It's not like we're picking Balshaw.
I'd take a Balshaw over a Steward, though I concede I have a bias for pace
Does mean we don't split the field with 2 10s, does mean if NZ don't kick the ball to Steward there are issues with him covering behind the rush, but maybe they do kick, their 9 is a good kicker, and their 10 is more a player to do what he feels in the moment than a game manager. Steward will work hard off the ball on attack, actually he really puts in a shift there, but unless his handling has come a long way and NZ do choose to kick to him, well there are reasons I'd prefer an Arundell/Balshaw
