NPR

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:47 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:34 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:20 pm Anyone watching the controversy in the Solheim Cup. Absolutely disgusting decision, the yanks should be ashamed of themselves.

The yanks didn’t make the decision the rules officials did. It wasn’t going to drop but these guys are pros they know the rules she shouldn’t have picked it up.

BA have just cancelled our flights to Belek

That's a nightmare mate.

Re the Solheim. You only have to leave it 10 seconds if there is a likelihood of the ball dropping. It clearly wasn't going to so that rule doesn't apply. Obviously Korda didn't think anything of it so the rules official had not right getting involved.

Europe shouldn't concede any putt for at least 10 seconds for the rest of the match just to get the point across that those sort of homer decisions are unacceptable.

Actually it’s 10 seconds after she arrives at the ball. If the yanks didn’t think it was going to drop then they could’ve conceded the next hole. Stupid of her to pick it up, she should’ve just said that’s good and let the yanks sort it. Apparently it was agreed by both teams that the referees were to step in if there was a breach of the rules.

On the plus side we are only down a £200 deposit.

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:15 am

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:47 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:34 pm

The yanks didn’t make the decision the rules officials did. It wasn’t going to drop but these guys are pros they know the rules she shouldn’t have picked it up.

BA have just cancelled our flights to Belek

That's a nightmare mate.

Re the Solheim. You only have to leave it 10 seconds if there is a likelihood of the ball dropping. It clearly wasn't going to so that rule doesn't apply. Obviously Korda didn't think anything of it so the rules official had not right getting involved.

Europe shouldn't concede any putt for at least 10 seconds for the rest of the match just to get the point across that those sort of homer decisions are unacceptable.

Actually it’s 10 seconds after she arrives at the ball. If the yanks didn’t think it was going to drop then they could’ve conceded the next hole. Stupid of her to pick it up, she should’ve just said that’s good and let the yanks sort it. Apparently it was agreed by both teams that the referees were to step in if there was a breach of the rules.

On the plus side we are only down a £200 deposit.

No, you have got the ruling completely wrong mate. The rule allows a maximum of ten seconds for the putter to wait once they get to the ball, IF they feel there is a possibility the ball will fall. There was clearly no indication from Korda that she thought the ball might fall so the 10 seconds are completely immaterial.

What explanation have BA given for the cancellation. Is it that Turkey is currently on the red list.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:24 am

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:15 am

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:47 pm

That's a nightmare mate.

Re the Solheim. You only have to leave it 10 seconds if there is a likelihood of the ball dropping. It clearly wasn't going to so that rule doesn't apply. Obviously Korda didn't think anything of it so the rules official had not right getting involved.

Europe shouldn't concede any putt for at least 10 seconds for the rest of the match just to get the point across that those sort of homer decisions are unacceptable.

Actually it’s 10 seconds after she arrives at the ball. If the yanks didn’t think it was going to drop then they could’ve conceded the next hole. Stupid of her to pick it up, she should’ve just said that’s good and let the yanks sort it. Apparently it was agreed by both teams that the referees were to step in if there was a breach of the rules.

On the plus side we are only down a £200 deposit.

No, you have got the ruling completely wrong mate. The rule allows a maximum of ten seconds for the putter to wait once they get to the ball, IF they feel there is a possibility the ball will fall. There was clearly no indication from Korda that she thought the ball might fall so the 10 seconds are completely immaterial.

What explanation have BA given for the cancellation. Is it that Turkey is currently on the red list.

That is not my understanding, the player is given a ‘reasonable’ time to get to the hole and then 10 seconds for the ball to drop. It is deemed a stroke after 10 seconds. Irrespective of that she shouldn’t have picked it up.

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:43 am

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:24 am

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:15 am

Actually it’s 10 seconds after she arrives at the ball. If the yanks didn’t think it was going to drop then they could’ve conceded the next hole. Stupid of her to pick it up, she should’ve just said that’s good and let the yanks sort it. Apparently it was agreed by both teams that the referees were to step in if there was a breach of the rules.

On the plus side we are only down a £200 deposit.

No, you have got the ruling completely wrong mate. The rule allows a maximum of ten seconds for the putter to wait once they get to the ball, IF they feel there is a possibility the ball will fall. There was clearly no indication from Korda that she thought the ball might fall so the 10 seconds are completely immaterial.

What explanation have BA given for the cancellation. Is it that Turkey is currently on the red list.

That is not my understanding, the player is given a ‘reasonable’ time to get to the hole and then 10 seconds for the ball to drop. It is deemed a stroke after 10 seconds. Irrespective of that she shouldn’t have picked it up.

Yes, but I think you are misunderstanding the issue. The 'reasonable time' and 10 seconds are only relevant if there is a suggestion the ball is likely to drop and the putting player indicates an intention to take advantage of the time allowed for it to do so. In this case the ball was not likely to drop and Korda made no indication she thought it would and wanted to take advantage of the time so they had every right to concede the putt and pick it up.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:35 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:43 am

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:24 am

No, you have got the ruling completely wrong mate. The rule allows a maximum of ten seconds for the putter to wait once they get to the ball, IF they feel there is a possibility the ball will fall. There was clearly no indication from Korda that she thought the ball might fall so the 10 seconds are completely immaterial.

What explanation have BA given for the cancellation. Is it that Turkey is currently on the red list.

That is not my understanding, the player is given a ‘reasonable’ time to get to the hole and then 10 seconds for the ball to drop. It is deemed a stroke after 10 seconds. Irrespective of that she shouldn’t have picked it up.

Yes, but I think you are misunderstanding the issue. The 'reasonable time' and 10 seconds are only relevant if there is a suggestion the ball is likely to drop and the putting player indicates an intention to take advantage of the time allowed for it to do so. In this case the ball was not likely to drop and Korda made no indication she thought it would and wanted to take advantage of the time so they had every right to concede the putt and pick it up.

Apparently since the ball was over hanging the hole the refs stepped in. If Korda didn’t think it had a chance of dropping they should have conceded the next hole.

Solheim cup is absolutely gripping watched the whole 5 hours of play this evening. These girls are rolling in putts from everywhere

It's amazing that Leona Maguire hasn't gotten a win under her belt yet in the LPGA; it can only be a matter of time; she's ridiculously talented.

Well done ladies !

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:41 pm It's amazing that Leona Maguire hasn't gotten a win under her belt yet in the LPGA; it can only be a matter of time; she's ridiculously talented.

She was 3 years as the worlds top amateur It is only a matter of time!!

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:50 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:41 pm It's amazing that Leona Maguire hasn't gotten a win under her belt yet in the LPGA; it can only be a matter of time; she's ridiculously talented.

She was 3 years as the worlds top amateur It is only a matter of time!!

People outside of Ireland probably aren't aware; but Leona has a twin Lisa; who also was, equally talented, & part of Darren Clarke's academy; & who also went on a scholarship to the US College scene; but unfortunately; a swing coach got involved; & managed to completely destroy Lisa's swing; in the name of improving it & simultaneously ruined her confidence, to the point where she retired, & moved over to the sports management side of things.

Some fucking coach !

Just back from our annual charity tournament in Tain, which is a bit of a last man standing effort given the amount of alcohol being consumed. A welcome addition to the proceedings this year was some of the Tain lads attaching speakers to their bags and blaring out rock music all the way round the course. A very unusual but entertaining twist.

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:56 am Any of you use smart watch like a garmin vivo etc for golf?

Debating smart watches and want something mainly for day to day and running but would love something that gave distances as well especially since one of the courses I play at has got rid of its distance marker stakes

I got an app for my apple iPhone and iwatch - Golfshot. Its free and provides yardages to middle of greens. Has all the courses on it. I use it all the time and its more than adequate to do the job, saves having to change watches. If you use it on your phone you get full graphics for the holes etc.

Just back from a wee trip down south - played Chipping Sudbury, The Players and Kendleshire, all just north/east of Bristol. All very nice courses, the latter two being relatively new and very American in style. Chipping Sudbury was a more traditional UK course. Enjoyed them all but the water hazards on The Players got me a couple of times. Biggest problem was the weather, too feckin hot! It must have been 30 degrees every day, blue skies and hot sun, far too hot for us Scots. Would recommend all three courses, all great fun and very welcoming.

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:50 pm

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:56 am Any of you use smart watch like a garmin vivo etc for golf?

Debating smart watches and want something mainly for day to day and running but would love something that gave distances as well especially since one of the courses I play at has got rid of its distance marker stakes

I got an app for my apple iPhone and iwatch - Golfshot. Its free and provides yardages to middle of greens. Has all the courses on it. I use it all the time and its more than adequate to do the job, saves having to change watches. If you use it on your phone you get full graphics for the holes etc.

Cheers for that, I find pulling my phone out all the time a big distraction, although I guess I could mount it on my trundler to stop the faffing

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:56 pm Just back from a wee trip down south - played Chipping Sodbury, The Players and Kendleshire, all just north/east of Bristol. All very nice courses, the latter two being relatively new and very American in style. Chipping Sodbury was a more traditional UK course. Enjoyed them all but the water hazards on The Players got me a couple of times. Biggest problem was the weather, too feckin hot! It must have been 30 degrees every day, blue skies and hot sun, far too hot for us Scots. Would recommend all three courses, all great fun and very welcoming.

Fixed for you as I used to live down that way..................and I'm a pedant!!!

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:22 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:56 pm Just back from a wee trip down south - played Chipping Sodbury, The Players and Kendleshire, all just north/east of Bristol. All very nice courses, the latter two being relatively new and very American in style. Chipping Sodbury was a more traditional UK course. Enjoyed them all but the water hazards on The Players got me a couple of times. Biggest problem was the weather, too feckin hot! It must have been 30 degrees every day, blue skies and hot sun, far too hot for us Scots. Would recommend all three courses, all great fun and very welcoming.

Fixed for you as I used to live down that way..................and I'm a pedant!!!

You wouldn't like to fix my putting too?

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:01 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:22 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:56 pm Just back from a wee trip down south - played Chipping Sodbury, The Players and Kendleshire, all just north/east of Bristol. All very nice courses, the latter two being relatively new and very American in style. Chipping Sodbury was a more traditional UK course. Enjoyed them all but the water hazards on The Players got me a couple of times. Biggest problem was the weather, too feckin hot! It must have been 30 degrees every day, blue skies and hot sun, far too hot for us Scots. Would recommend all three courses, all great fun and very welcoming.

Fixed for you as I used to live down that way..................and I'm a pedant!!!

You wouldn't like to fix my putting too?

As I'm a non and never will be golfer that would be a very interesting excercise

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:50 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:01 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:22 am
Fixed for you as I used to live down that way..................and I'm a pedant!!!

You wouldn't like to fix my putting too?

As I'm a non and never will be golfer that would be a very interesting excercise

At the moment I would try anything!

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:56 am Any of you use smart watch like a garmin vivo etc for golf?

Debating smart watches and want something mainly for day to day and running but would love something that gave distances as well especially since one of the courses I play at has got rid of its distance marker stakes

I have a garmin which is good but fiddly I also would rather not use a phone especially if it’s raining. If you get anything get a bag one rather than a wrist one as the displays are too small.

Played Dunbar on Friday with my pal who is a member in almost calm and sunny conditions, absolute bliss. Course was in excellent condition and so much more playable without the usual storm force wind! Had a decent round, played to my handicap and if I could sink a few putts, got nothing from outside 6 feet, would have done even better. Course was very busy and lots of parties of folk from down south which was good to see. Looks like these clubs which rely on visitor income are recovering a bit of what they lost last year, heard that Lundin Links lost £250k in visitor income last year. Hopefully weather holds out for my wee trip next week to Bamburgh, Goswick and Alnmouth.

Currently golfing in Turkey have played the Sultan twice and the Pasha and am off to play Carya today. My initial feelings are that it knocks playing in Spain out of the park I cannot fault it all. Courses are in great nick. yesterday went round the Turkish Open course in 7 over no one ahead of us or behind. Millionaires golf...



Thanks BM for the tips and advice you were spot on.

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:05 am Currently golfing in Turkey have played the Sultan twice and the Pasha and am off to play Carya today. My initial feelings are that it knocks playing in Spain out of the park I cannot fault it all. Courses are in great nick. yesterday went round the Turkish Open course in 7 over no one ahead of us or behind. Millionaires golf...



Thanks BM for the tips and advice you were spot on.

Bastard ....

dpedin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:43 am

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:05 am Currently golfing in Turkey have played the Sultan twice and the Pasha and am off to play Carya today. My initial feelings are that it knocks playing in Spain out of the park I cannot fault it all. Courses are in great nick. yesterday went round the Turkish Open course in 7 over no one ahead of us or behind. Millionaires golf...



Thanks BM for the tips and advice you were spot on.

Bastard ....

Granted

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:05 am Currently golfing in Turkey have played the Sultan twice and the Pasha and am off to play Carya today. My initial feelings are that it knocks playing in Spain out of the park I cannot fault it all. Courses are in great nick. yesterday went round the Turkish Open course in 7 over no one ahead of us or behind. Millionaires golf...


Thanks BM for the tips and advice you were spot on.

Glad it worked out. Yeah the likes of Sultan and Carya are very special courses. What did you think of the 16th on the Sultan. It's just a laughably difficult hole.

Whats the flights/travel arrangements from Embra for golfing in Turkey? When is the best time of the year?

I usually go with a bunch of mates to South Carolina every couple of years, usually end of April/early May, but obviously haven't been for a while so a wee trip to Turkey might fill a void.

I took my old clubs to the driving range and hit a few balls for the first time in at least 5 years. My back is definitely not as flexible as it was. Been looking at a more open stance swing to ease the back a bit. Any other golfers use this setup?

My clubs are Ping Eye2s!

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:42 am Whats the flights/travel arrangements from Embra for golfing in Turkey? When is the best time of the year?

I usually go with a bunch of mates to South Carolina every couple of years, usually end of April/early May, but obviously haven't been for a while so a wee trip to Turkey might fill a void.

We go first or second week in May so the weather is guaranteed and the courses are actually getting a bit quieter. We have flown Jet2, and Thomas Cook and there never seems to be a problem. A couple of times we have had to go from Glasgow.

Should have added that you will have huge problems booking for May next year due to the Covid backlog. You might get flights and accommodation but good tee times will be impossible.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:37 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:05 am Currently golfing in Turkey have played the Sultan twice and the Pasha and am off to play Carya today. My initial feelings are that it knocks playing in Spain out of the park I cannot fault it all. Courses are in great nick. yesterday went round the Turkish Open course in 7 over no one ahead of us or behind. Millionaires golf...


Thanks BM for the tips and advice you were spot on.

Glad it worked out. Yeah the likes of Sultan and Carya are very special courses. What did you think of the 16th on the Sultan. It's just a laughably difficult hole.

Really pissed off hit a good drive and than in a sign of the grass shoots of maturity hit a 5 iron to 80 yards (my bread and butter) all but guaranteed a par possible birdie and I have a brain fart and flub it in the water still got a 6 though.

Played the front 9 ofPasha in level and then dropped 4 on the back 9 including a triple on the 15th despite me taking my shoes and socks off and standing in the lake

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:05 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:37 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:05 am Currently golfing in Turkey have played the Sultan twice and the Pasha and am off to play Carya today. My initial feelings are that it knocks playing in Spain out of the park I cannot fault it all. Courses are in great nick. yesterday went round the Turkish Open course in 7 over no one ahead of us or behind. Millionaires golf...


Thanks BM for the tips and advice you were spot on.

Glad it worked out. Yeah the likes of Sultan and Carya are very special courses. What did you think of the 16th on the Sultan. It's just a laughably difficult hole.

Really pissed off hit a good drive and than in a sign of the grass shoots of maturity hit a 5 iron to 80 yards (my bread and butter) all but guaranteed a par possible birdie and I have a brain fart and flub it in the water still got a 6 though.

Played the front 9 ofPasha in level and then dropped 4 on the back 9 including a triple on the 15th despite me taking my shoes and socks off and standing in the lake

I have yet to hit anything less than an 8 on it in 10 rounds. Always have at least one in the water. Shot a 78 round there last time out and still got the inevitable 8 at 16.
Back 9 is a tough beast at the Pasha. Cracking course when you consider it is the lesser of the two. 13 is a stunning hole. Can't wait till May. We have two each at the Sultan and Pasha and one at Faldo and Lykia Links.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:10 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:05 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:37 pm

Glad it worked out. Yeah the likes of Sultan and Carya are very special courses. What did you think of the 16th on the Sultan. It's just a laughably difficult hole.

Really pissed off hit a good drive and than in a sign of the grass shoots of maturity hit a 5 iron to 80 yards (my bread and butter) all but guaranteed a par possible birdie and I have a brain fart and flub it in the water still got a 6 though.

Played the front 9 ofPasha in level and then dropped 4 on the back 9 including a triple on the 15th despite me taking my shoes and socks off and standing in the lake

I have yet to hit anything less than an 8 on it in 10 rounds. Always have at least one in the water. Shot a 78 round there last time out and still got the inevitable 8 at 16.
Back 9 is a tough beast at the Pasha. Cracking course when you consider it is the lesser of the two. 13 is a stunning hole. Can't wait till May. We have two each at the Sultan and Pasha and one at Faldo and Lykia Links.

The. guys we chatted to on the plane were not complimentary about Lykia Links (although the Lykia suite of hotels is generally very good)

Openside wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:31 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:10 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:05 pm

Really pissed off hit a good drive and than in a sign of the grass shoots of maturity hit a 5 iron to 80 yards (my bread and butter) all but guaranteed a par possible birdie and I have a brain fart and flub it in the water still got a 6 though.

Played the front 9 ofPasha in level and then dropped 4 on the back 9 including a triple on the 15th despite me taking my shoes and socks off and standing in the lake

I have yet to hit anything less than an 8 on it in 10 rounds. Always have at least one in the water. Shot a 78 round there last time out and still got the inevitable 8 at 16.
Back 9 is a tough beast at the Pasha. Cracking course when you consider it is the lesser of the two. 13 is a stunning hole. Can't wait till May. We have two each at the Sultan and Pasha and one at Faldo and Lykia Links.

The. guys we chatted to on the plane were not complimentary about Lykia Links (although the Lykia suite of hotels is generally very good)

That's odd, we have played it three times and it is always superb. It depends what you want from your holiday golf I suppose. Lykia is just a brutally hard links course which can prove a bit of a shock to the system if you do not know what to expect. I would certainly recommend it.

I have a challenge for you proper golfers! I need some advice from you chaps. I want to buy a secondhand eBay special set of irons but they have to be forged, favour the mid to GI end of the iron spectrum (I don't want huge shovels) and I want a full set for less than a hundred quid. I'd like your suggestions from sets you likely played with >10 years ago. Cheers!

p.s I'll be selling my set of Ping Eye2+ as I'm not getting on with them at all.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:01 pm I have a challenge for you proper golfers! I need some advice from you chaps. I want to buy a secondhand eBay special set of irons but they have to be forged, favour the mid to GI end of the iron spectrum (I don't want huge shovels) and I want a full set for less than a hundred quid. I'd like your suggestions from sets you likely played with >10 years ago. Cheers!

p.s I'll be selling my set of Ping Eye2+ as I'm not getting on with them at all.

Anything by Mizuno - quality guaranteed! I really liked the MP30s I had. However if buying 2nd hand check the shafts, lie, grips, lofts, etc as they will often be fitted clubs and may not suit you.

Yeah, I used to own a set of Mizuno CompEZ. No idea why I get rid of them.

Do the modern hollow irons really make it much easier to hit iron shots?

https://www.golfclubs4cash.co.uk/?gclid ... lsrc=aw.ds

These guys have a very good reputation for good 2nd hand clubs etc. They are close to me in Edinburgh and a number of mates have used them to sell/buy clubs. You might spend an extra £20 compared to a Ebay purchase but they are reliable and honest and you will get all the info you need etc before buying.They have lots of choice and if you have anything to sell you can do a trade. I don't have any stake in their business, honest!

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:04 pm Yeah, I used to own a set of Mizuno CompEZ. No idea why I get rid of them.

Do the modern hollow irons really make it much easier to hit iron shots?

When I got fitted by Callaway it was the shaft that made the difference in terms of distance and dispersion, etc the actual heads were much of a muchness to be honest. I ended up with expensive shaft and cheaper heads. Modern clubs are easier to hit long irons but the blades etc are better feel for shorter shots. Having said all that I really loved the MP30s but was losing distance as I got older - the DG shafts and lie weren't right for me - what I should have done was got them reshafted with the Recoil shafts I use now.

Titliest 704 CB's or TaylorMade RAC's. Easily pick up a set for about £100 to £150

Blackmac wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:06 pm Titliest 704 CB's or TaylorMade RAC's. Easily pick up a set for about £100 to £150

Cheers

I don't know much about TaylorMade clubs, would they be forged? Have you used RACs? How old would they likely be, 15 years?

Also, another quick question, I've always tended to have quite a fast swing but I'm older now and considerably less flexible and weaker! I'm still swinging hard but it's obviously not generating anything like the club head speed that I did when I was younger. I do know that my swing tempo needs to change anyway, it's my major work on really but would graphite shafts be a better option now?

Blackmac wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:19 am

Openside wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:31 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:10 pm

I have yet to hit anything less than an 8 on it in 10 rounds. Always have at least one in the water. Shot a 78 round there last time out and still got the inevitable 8 at 16.
Back 9 is a tough beast at the Pasha. Cracking course when you consider it is the lesser of the two. 13 is a stunning hole. Can't wait till May. We have two each at the Sultan and Pasha and one at Faldo and Lykia Links.

The. guys we chatted to on the plane were not complimentary about Lykia Links (although the Lykia suite of hotels is generally very good)

That's odd, we have played it three times and it is always superb. It depends what you want from your holiday golf I suppose. Lykia is just a brutally hard links course which can prove a bit of a shock to the system if you do not know what to expect. I would certainly recommend it.

They were good golfers the combined handicap of the 4 ball ahead of us was +8