South African teams vote to join an expanded Pro 14

[OomStruisbaai]

Cheetahs are going to get royally fucked. Even that competition looks dreadful.

They probably would have had a better case to make if they had finished higher in the Currie Cup.

I'd like to see them drop one of the Italian teams from Pro16, and then do some sort of relegation system.

According to Sards all european teams are kak. He is in for a heavy surprise.

[clydecloggie]

Cheetahs are going to get royally fucked. Even that competition looks dreadful.

They probably would have had a better case to make if they had finished higher in the Currie Cup.

I'd like to see them drop one of the Italian teams from Pro16, and then do some sort of relegation system.

According to Sards all european teams are kak. He is in for a heavy surprise.

I think currently only the three big Irish teams are on a par with the Saffer teams - Leinster, Munster and Ulster. Glasgow have dropped off in the last few seasons because all their best players have left or are leaving. The Welsh are all cannon fodder. Edinburgh are hampered by a vintage game plan that lacks imagination, although their physicality might mean they're better able to play against the Saffers than some of the other teams. Benetton promised for a few seasons but have regressed. Zebre are gash.

On ability, the Saffer teams will be at the top of the Pro16. The only question mark will be if they can do it in howling winds and freezing horizontal rain on a January Friday evening at Scotstoun or Rodney Parade.

[OomStruisbaai]

Cheetahs are going to get royally fucked. Even that competition looks dreadful.

They probably would have had a better case to make if they had finished higher in the Currie Cup.

I'd like to see them drop one of the Italian teams from Pro16, and then do some sort of relegation system.

According to Sards all european teams are kak. He is in for a heavy surprise.

I think currently only the three big Irish teams are on a par with the Saffer teams - Leinster, Munster and Ulster. Glasgow have dropped off in the last few seasons because all their best players have left or are leaving. The Welsh are all cannon fodder. Edinburgh are hampered by a vintage game plan that lacks imagination, although their physicality might mean they're better able to play against the Saffers than some of the other teams. Benetton promised for a few seasons but have regressed. Zebre are gash.

On ability, the Saffer teams will be at the top of the Pro16. The only question mark will be if they can do it in howling winds and freezing horizontal rain on a January Friday evening at Scotstoun or Rodney Parade.

Our type of game will fit in perfectly.

[Slick]

SARU & Rassie want to get them in the Europa Intercontinental Shield, acts as qualifier for European Challenge Cup.
https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/curr ... d-20210119

Cheetahs are going to get royally fucked. Even that competition looks dreadful.

They probably would have had a better case to make if they had finished higher in the Currie Cup.

I'd like to see them drop one of the Italian teams from Pro16, and then do some sort of relegation system.

It hasn't even started and you are telling us what to do

[sturginho]

SARU & Rassie want to get them in the Europa Intercontinental Shield, acts as qualifier for European Challenge Cup.
https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/curr ... d-20210119

Cheetahs are going to get royally fucked. Even that competition looks dreadful.

They probably would have had a better case to make if they had finished higher in the Currie Cup.

I'd like to see them drop one of the Italian teams from Pro16, and then do some sort of relegation system.

It hasn't even started and you are telling us what to do

TBF I hope whoever wins the FIR election this year pulls us out of the Pro16

[assfly]

It hasn't even started and you are telling us what to do

ok let us win it first then we'll start playing around with the rules

[PornDog]

On ability, the Saffer teams will be at the top of the Pro16. The only question mark will be if they can do it in howling winds and freezing horizontal rain on a January Friday evening at Scotstoun or Rodney Parade.

Would they though? I mean they'll clearly be above the average, but after a few excellent years the Lions were back to struggling, the Bulls have been shite for a while (be interesting to see how long it takes the returning talent to gel), Stormers have always been a bit meh with the Sharks just a bit better than the Stormers.

I'd be amazed if any of them ended up in the bottom half of the tables, but I'd be equally surprised if all four of them were serious challengers.

I expect results to be a bit like the Cheetahs - excellent home form and dubious away form. They'll pick up a good few more away scalps than the Cheetahs did, but wouldn't expect them to be outright dominating.

TBF I hope whoever wins the FIR election this year pulls us out of the Pro16

Interesting - and do what as an alternative? Was genuinely hopeful there for a while that Italian rugby was on an upward curve, with Treviso qualifying for Europe and even Zebre not being absolute bottom dwellers, alas that hope is fading fast. Still clinging onto your u20s teams producing a bunch of quality professionals.

[sturginho]

Interesting - and do what as an alternative? Was genuinely hopeful there for a while that Italian rugby was on an upward curve, with Treviso qualifying for Europe and even Zebre not being absolute bottom dwellers, alas that hope is fading fast. Still clinging onto your u20s teams producing a bunch of quality professionals.

It was starting to look promising at the beginning, with Treviso pushing hard for the playoffs and Aironi making some progress, but then we had a few self inflicted gunshot wounds to the feet with Aironi being forced out and replaced by Zebre, and Treviso throwing a wobbly and threatening to leave.

The main problem though has been the lack of a pathway for young players to get into the Pro14 teams, and the lack of a mechanism for players to move between the pro14 and the domestic competition. They've finally started to do something about this, but I think it has reached a point where our continued participation in the Pro16 is throwing good money after bad and we'd be better looking at other options.

I don't know what the solution would be, but I had an idea in my head of having 4 regional teams based where the 4 u18 academies are: Milan, Prato, Rome and Treviso. Then you'd have your domestic competition (which is back to being 10 teams which I think is about right) and once that has finished you have the inter regional tournament. It'd take a lot of investment to bring the league back up to a decent standard (it has really been neglected since we joined the pro12) but we'd be making a big saving by not playing in the pro16.

It might not make any difference at all to our performance in the 6N, but at least we'd be spared watching two bottom dwelling sides getting thumped week in and week out

[FalseBayFC]

South African squads have lost a large number of their experienced players to Japanese and Northern Hem clubs. For the first couple of years this will affect their competitiveness. The Bulls look best placed to thrive with their pack and have recruited intelligently. Hopefully the Sharks will follow suit as they should have a bolstered war chest.

[‘tsek]

South African squads have lost a large number of their experienced players to Japanese and Northern Hem clubs. For the first couple of years this will affect their competitiveness. The Bulls look best placed to thrive with their pack and have recruited intelligently. Hopefully the Sharks will follow suit as they should have a bolstered war chest.

Yup, our esteemed national captain definitely is a potential acquisition which will suit the N-Hemisphere game.

[clydecloggie]

Interesting - and do what as an alternative? Was genuinely hopeful there for a while that Italian rugby was on an upward curve, with Treviso qualifying for Europe and even Zebre not being absolute bottom dwellers, alas that hope is fading fast. Still clinging onto your u20s teams producing a bunch of quality professionals.

It was starting to look promising at the beginning, with Treviso pushing hard for the playoffs and Aironi making some progress, but then we had a few self inflicted gunshot wounds to the feet with Aironi being forced out and replaced by Zebre, and Treviso throwing a wobbly and threatening to leave.

The main problem though has been the lack of a pathway for young players to get into the Pro14 teams, and the lack of a mechanism for players to move between the pro14 and the domestic competition. They've finally started to do something about this, but I think it has reached a point where our continued participation in the Pro16 is throwing good money after bad and we'd be better looking at other options.

I don't know what the solution would be, but I had an idea in my head of having 4 regional teams based where the 4 u18 academies are: Milan, Prato, Rome and Treviso. Then you'd have your domestic competition (which is back to being 10 teams which I think is about right) and once that has finished you have the inter regional tournament. It'd take a lot of investment to bring the league back up to a decent standard (it has really been neglected since we joined the pro12) but we'd be making a big saving by not playing in the pro16.

It might not make any difference at all to our performance in the 6N, but at least we'd be spared watching two bottom dwelling sides getting thumped week in and week out

I think it would make a lot of sense for Benetton and Zebre to join the French DI2/Top 14 setup.

[sturginho]

I think it would make a lot of sense for Benetton and Zebre to join the French DI2/Top 14 setup.

I think it could be a possibility, but in the same way that we don't bring anything to the Pro16, why would the French be interested in bringing in Italian teams?

[OomStruisbaai]

Cheetahs are going to get royally fucked. Even that competition looks dreadful.

They probably would have had a better case to make if they had finished higher in the Currie Cup.

I'd like to see them drop one of the Italian teams from Pro16, and then do some sort of relegation system.

It hasn't even started and you are telling us what to do

TBF I hope whoever wins the FIR election this year pulls us out of the Pro16

Wont happen, your national coach want to stay in the SA loop.

[OomStruisbaai]

Would they though? I mean they'll clearly be above the average, but after a few excellent years the Lions were back to struggling, the Bulls have been shite for a while (be interesting to see how long it takes the returning talent to gel), Stormers have always been a bit meh with the Sharks just a bit better than the Stormers.

I'd be amazed if any of them ended up in the bottom half of the tables, but I'd be equally surprised if all four of them were serious challengers.

I expect results to be a bit like the Cheetahs - excellent home form and dubious away form. They'll pick up a good few more away scalps than the Cheetahs did, but wouldn't expect them to be outright dominating.

Your knowledge of Saffer rugby is weak, very weak.

[PornDog]

Would they though? I mean they'll clearly be above the average, but after a few excellent years the Lions were back to struggling, the Bulls have been shite for a while (be interesting to see how long it takes the returning talent to gel), Stormers have always been a bit meh with the Sharks just a bit better than the Stormers.

I'd be amazed if any of them ended up in the bottom half of the tables, but I'd be equally surprised if all four of them were serious challengers.

I expect results to be a bit like the Cheetahs - excellent home form and dubious away form. They'll pick up a good few more away scalps than the Cheetahs did, but wouldn't expect them to be outright dominating.

Your knowledge of Saffer rugby is weak, very weak.

Well that's probably true - but what bit do you take issue with? Genuinely, I don't pretend to be an expert at all, that's just the impression I have of them.

Have the Lions not been on a downward curve?
Have the Bulls not been shite for the last few years?
Are the Stormers not typically mid tier mediocrity and I know the Sharks have had some good seasons in the past, but without any real consistency.

As I said above, I would expect excellent home form and significantly worse away form. I'd imagine if the returning Bulls talent can gel that they would be serious contenders and if the Lions can recover their form of a few years ago (what are the causes of their slump BTW?). I know people are talking about the Sharks having new money, but I haven't been hearing about any signings like we have for the Bulls. Stormers I'm assuming will be the worst of the 4 SA teams?

[assfly]

You aren't far from the truth, PornDog. And I can assure you, your knowledge of SH rugby far surpasses Oom's knowledge of NH rugby.

[Chilli]

You aren't far from the truth, PornDog. And I can assure you, your knowledge of SH rugby far surpasses Oom's knowledge of NH rugby.

[Sards]

Would they though? I mean they'll clearly be above the average, but after a few excellent years the Lions were back to struggling, the Bulls have been shite for a while (be interesting to see how long it takes the returning talent to gel), Stormers have always been a bit meh with the Sharks just a bit better than the Stormers.

I'd be amazed if any of them ended up in the bottom half of the tables, but I'd be equally surprised if all four of them were serious challengers.

I expect results to be a bit like the Cheetahs - excellent home form and dubious away form. They'll pick up a good few more away scalps than the Cheetahs did, but wouldn't expect them to be outright dominating.

Your knowledge of Saffer rugby is weak, very weak.

Well that's probably true - but what bit do you take issue with? Genuinely, I don't pretend to be an expert at all, that's just the impression I have of them.

Have the Lions not been on a downward curve?
Have the Bulls not been shite for the last few years?
Are the Stormers not typically mid tier mediocrity and I know the Sharks have had some good seasons in the past, but without any real consistency.

As I said above, I would expect excellent home form and significantly worse away form. I'd imagine if the returning Bulls talent can gel that they would be serious contenders and if the Lions can recover their form of a few years ago (what are the causes of their slump BTW?). I know people are talking about the Sharks having new money, but I haven't been hearing about any signings like we have for the Bulls. Stormers I'm assuming will be the worst of the 4 SA teams?

South African sides are terrible at traveling. Except the Sharks who pride themselves of the win rate away from home..but then falter at home...

Welcome to South African rugby politics.
You have the Bulls supporters who are really scarce. But generally good nuggets. Realistic about expectations.
Then you have the Lions supporters. Always the underdog but punching above their weight. Decent lads.
Then you have the Sharks supporters. Forever the target of attack because of the Sharks consistency in getting to finals.
Then you the Stormers....their team is the greatest in the universe and every player is a Springbok

[OomStruisbaai]

Rainbow Cup is still in the balance
https://citizen.co.za/sport/south-afric ... ow-cup/%20

“Everything is still a little bit vague and uncertain,” said Lions coach Cash van Rooyen about South Africa’s rugby teams entering Europe.

South Africa’s four biggest rugby teams might have to be content with playing more local derbies before entering the Rainbow Cup next month.
SA Rugby and the ProRugby organisers – who are jointly staging the Europe-based Rainbow Cup – have yet to finalise the fixtures or the travel schedule.
“If I had to stick my neck out I’d say it would probably make more sense for us to play a few local derbies first before travelling to Europe,” said Lions coach Cash van Rooyen.
The Covid-19 situation across the world, and how it has affected travel and forced travellers into quarantine will almost prevent and international travel at this stage.

“Everything is still a little bit vague and uncertain. Our Chief Executive Officer Rudolf Straeuli is busy with those details,” added Van Rooyen.
With so few details about the Rainbow Cup available, the Lions boss said he didn’t even know how big the respective squads could be.
“If I had to guess, I’d think the squad would be in the region of 32 players but that would need to be confirmed,” said Van Rooyen.
“But I think the group will probably not be as big as we got used to in Super Rugby, however, provision will obviously have to be made for Covid protocol.”
Van Rooyen hailed the current Preparation Series as an “ideal opportunity” for the four SA franchises to strengthen their wider groups for the Rainbow Cup – should the competition go ahead.
“We’ve been able to expose some younger players who deserved a chance,” said Van Rooyen.

[assfly]

Please. No more local derbies.

[Green light echo]

Not looking good boets.

Do you think you will see the Spingoffs play before the the next RWC in 2023?

Organisational geniuses these okes

[OomStruisbaai]

Not looking good boets.

Do you think you will see the Spingoffs play before the the next RWC in 2023?

Organisational geniuses these okes

Dankie die een is gepos. Wat n kont was hy nie.

[handyman]

Not looking good boets.

Do you think you will see the Spingoffs play before the the next RWC in 2023?

Organisational geniuses these okes

Dankie die een is gepos. Wat n kont was hy nie.

Daar's altyd 'n drol in die drinkwater.

[OomStruisbaai]

Not looking good boets.

Do you think you will see the Spingoffs play before the the next RWC in 2023?

Organisational geniuses these okes

Dankie die een is gepos. Wat n kont was hy nie.

Daar's altyd 'n drol in die drinkwater.

Sheila konte stink verskriklik.

[handyman]

Dankie die een is gepos. Wat n kont was hy nie.

Daar's altyd 'n drol in die drinkwater.

Sheila konte stink verskriklik.

Nog nie die voorreg gehad nie, het maar altyd my luck getry by bolandse nooientjies.

[assfly]

I really wish they'd announce the fixtures for the Rainbow Cup. There is literally nothing to talk about for SA rugby fans at the moment.

[OomStruisbaai]

Citizen

Still no answers: Rainbow Cup teams left in the da

“All we can do is ensure that everyone is ready and geared to play when those dates eventually are confirmed.”
Bulls director of rugby Jake White admits he is in the dark and has ‘no answers’ to questions about the Rainbow Cup or when it might start for the four local franchises.

Indications are that the competition will start on 17 April, with local derbies in line for the SA sides from 24 April, but it all remains a big uncertainty.

“It’s the same for everyone, so at present we can only work with what we know and at this stage we don’t have any answers,” said White.

“So currently all we can do is ensure that everyone is ready and geared to play when those dates eventually are confirmed.”

With the turbulent times that had been experienced over the last year because of the pandemic, the former Bok coach said they simply had to deal with the situation.

“This year and last year showed to all of us that you have to adapt,” said White.

“Everyone wanted to know when it would be the end of Covid and everyone wanted to know whether the Springboks were going to be in action or not.”

The Boks could still play against the touring British and Irish Lions in June, but White was concerned that they didn’t know whether they would have a local competition.

“Everyone wanted to know whether and if the Currie Cup is going to take place at all,” he said.

“I think the fact that everyone is in the same boat and everyone is waiting for a date which would make it a bit more of a bearable issue.”

The key, however, was to keep working, regardless of the uncertainty.

“When the time eventually comes we just have to ensure we are properly prepared,” he said.

Having won their third Preparation match last week against the Stormers, White was happy with where they were before their final game against the Sharks this weekend.

“We had 12 guys missing last weekend, but I’m happy,” he said.

“We can make our side stronger and stronger.”

Meanwhile, in a setback for the Bulls, centre Stedman Gans has been ruled out for three months with an ankle injury.

[assfly]

Citizen

Still no answers: Rainbow Cup teams left in the da

“All we can do is ensure that everyone is ready and geared to play when those dates eventually are confirmed.”
Bulls director of rugby Jake White admits he is in the dark and has ‘no answers’ to questions about the Rainbow Cup or when it might start for the four local franchises.

Indications are that the competition will start on 17 April, with local derbies in line for the SA sides from 24 April, but it all remains a big uncertainty.

Please god no.

Load the local games at the end of the tournament ffs.

[Rinkals]

I'm not really in favour of South Africa moving North because I feel it will weaken SH rugby and strengthen the NH game, but if the Aussies and Kiwis don't want us in, then I think we have no alternative. No doubt the time differences are partly responsible for the antipathy, but there does seem to be some animosity from most New Zealanders to South African participation in the soup.

From my memory of watching rugby in the UK, it always felt very pedestrian in contrast to watching high paced games in South Africa, and I'm inclined to feel that playing there will weaken our competitive edge.

If the Europeans are using the performances of the Kings as a yardstick of how well South African sides are likely to play (as some posts here seem to be doing), then I suspect that they are shortly to be disabused. Assuming the move actually happens, of course.

[Tichtheid]

The Kings really struggled, as did the Cheetahs at times, they were often free points for the opposition. I don’t think anyone here seriously thinks the four that are coming in are anything like those sides.

I find it an interesting proposition, it’s a long way from Pretoria to the horizontal sleet in Galway

[assfly]

From my memory of watching rugby in the UK, it always felt very pedestrian in contrast to watching high paced games in South Africa, and I'm inclined to feel that playing there will weaken our competitive edge.

Last weekend's results in the English league:

Harlequins 59 - 24 Gloucester
Exeter 47 - 31 Leicester
Sale 41 - 13 London Irish

Obviously we're not playing in the English league, but I've been watching it religiously since Covid started and it's hugely enjoyable.

I'm mostly looking forward to playing the Irish sides, and the talk of possible entrance into the European competitions, meaning matches against the English and French clubs.

[handyman]

From my memory of watching rugby in the UK, it always felt very pedestrian in contrast to watching high paced games in South Africa, and I'm inclined to feel that playing there will weaken our competitive edge.

Last weekend's results in the English league:

Harlequins 59 - 24 Gloucester
Exeter 47 - 31 Leicester
Sale 41 - 13 London Irish

Obviously we're not playing in the English league, but I've been watching it religiously since Covid started and it's hugely enjoyable.

I'm mostly looking forward to playing the Irish sides, and the talk of possible entrance into the European competitions, meaning matches against the English and French clubs.

Agreed, the level of play is very good.

rinkhals is throwing out some rancid bait on a slow Friday to fill his day.

[sorCrer]

I'm not really in favour of South Africa moving North because I feel it will weaken SH rugby and strengthen the NH game, but if the Aussies and Kiwis don't want us in, then I think we have no alternative. No doubt the time differences are partly responsible for the antipathy, but there does seem to be some animosity from most New Zealanders to South African participation in the soup.

From my memory of watching rugby in the UK, it always felt very pedestrian in contrast to watching high paced games in South Africa, and I'm inclined to feel that playing there will weaken our competitive edge.

If the Europeans are using the performances of the Kings as a yardstick of how well South African sides are likely to play (as some posts here seem to be doing), then I suspect that they are shortly to be disabused. Assuming the move actually happens, of course.

I've been watching a lot of it, Rinks 2-3 games very weekend. We're in for a surprise.

[Rinkals]

As a matter of interest, where are Saracens? They had quite a big South African contingent.

They appeared to be dominating English rugby until off-field punitive action pulled their teeth.

Kings and, to a lesser extent, Cheetahs are more of a rabble than a professional, well-coached rugby side.

[Rinkals]

I'm not really in favour of South Africa moving North because I feel it will weaken SH rugby and strengthen the NH game, but if the Aussies and Kiwis don't want us in, then I think we have no alternative. No doubt the time differences are partly responsible for the antipathy, but there does seem to be some animosity from most New Zealanders to South African participation in the soup.

From my memory of watching rugby in the UK, it always felt very pedestrian in contrast to watching high paced games in South Africa, and I'm inclined to feel that playing there will weaken our competitive edge.

If the Europeans are using the performances of the Kings as a yardstick of how well South African sides are likely to play (as some posts here seem to be doing), then I suspect that they are shortly to be disabused. Assuming the move actually happens, of course.

I've been watching a lot of it, Rinks 2-3 games very weekend. We're in for a surprise.

To be fair, I left the UK in 2004. Watching on television is different from actually being at the ground.

[assfly]

As a matter of interest, where are Saracens? They had quite a big South African contingent.

They were relegated to the Championship. Not they're battling against the likes of Ealing and Cornwall.

[Sandstorm]

As a matter of interest, where are Saracens? They had quite a big South African contingent.

They were relegated to the Championship. Not they're battling against the likes of Ealing and Cornwall.

You’d think he’d read more than the Brexit and Covid thread on here.....

[Rinkals]

As a matter of interest, where are Saracens? They had quite a big South African contingent.

They were relegated to the Championship. Not they're battling against the likes of Ealing and Cornwall.

You’d think he’d read more than the Brexit and Covid thread on here.....

Obviously, I was aware that they had enough points docked to force them into relegation, but I wasn't sure whether they had retained their playing personnel.

I was making a point about South African players being competitive in the competition.

There seems to be a perception that we will struggle, but that presupposes that the NH league is superior to the soup and I think we held our own in the latter.

[assfly]

Obviously, I was aware that they had enough points docked to force them into relegation, but I wasn't sure whether they had retained their playing personnel.

I was making a point about South African players being competitive in the competition.

There seems to be a perception that we will struggle, but that presupposes that the NH league is superior to the soup and I think we held our own in the latter.

The Saffa flavour of Saracens isn't really there anymore. I think it's just Koch and Rhodes left.

I Sale, Leicester and Saracens probably have the most Saffas now.

I think we'll struggle because we're so out of gametime and the standard of rugby we saw in the CC was low. Given a season or two I think we'll be very competitive again.

[Rinkals]

Obviously, I was aware that they had enough points docked to force them into relegation, but I wasn't sure whether they had retained their playing personnel.

I was making a point about South African players being competitive in the competition.

There seems to be a perception that we will struggle, but that presupposes that the NH league is superior to the soup and I think we held our own in the latter.

The Saffa flavour of Saracens isn't really there anymore. I think it's just Koch and Rhodes left.

I Sale, Leicester and Saracens probably have the most Saffas now.

I think we'll struggle because we're so out of gametime and the standard of rugby we saw in the CC was low. Given a season or two I think we'll be very competitive again.

Fair point.

Not that I necessarily agree with it.

If we are undercooked, it shouldn't take more than a few games to get up to speed.