NPR

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:43 am So
- they had a clinical edge before the game
- critical fans really don’t know anything
- they were also exhausted, 5 games 6 weeks.
- being away from home is exhausting
- they’re not excuses but they’re true


Clinical edge before the game but then after result tired and home sick. Not listening to any criticism, those people know nothing.

I’m not exactly inspired by this. Especially the “non” excuses. And how’s the team going to cope with a World Cup with so many games together and away from home.

I won’t even go in to the angle that the games are likely more condensed so they could get home for Christmas holidays.

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 am As a professional rugby player - a Super Rugby captain and now National captain, I assume Sam Cane has had media/PR training. If that is the case, he needs a refresher.

I won’t go any further for fear of this being considered a hateful, disrespectful comment online.

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 am As a professional rugby player - a Super Rugby captain and now National captain, I assume Sam Cane has had media/PR training. If that is the case, he needs a refresher.

I won’t go any further for fear of this being considered a hateful, disrespectful comment online.

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:29 am

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 am As a professional rugby player - a Super Rugby captain and now National captain, I assume Sam Cane has had media/PR training. If that is the case, he needs a refresher.

I won’t go any further for fear of this being considered a hateful, disrespectful comment online.

This. He's not wrong necessarily (plenty of fans know bugger all), but it's a bloody stupid thing to actually say. Calling your fans a bunch of ill-informed know-nothings on the back of a historically bad loss is hardly a great PR strategy to get the public onside. Seems very much a case of saying the quiet part out loud.

Also seems like a worryingly insular mindset, where any outside criticism is dismissed onsite. Insularity and NZR should hardly come as a surprise, of course.

obelixtim wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:15 am Cane needs to pull his head in. Of course many fans don't know what is going on behind the scenes - because they aren't there. But what fans do know, is what is displayed on the field, and that is probably a reflection of what IS going on behind the scenes.

And dissing fans who probably know a hell of a lot about rugby isn't going to make the ABs perform better.

I would suggest if players are being affected by what is read on social media, perhaps they need to focus on getting their heads right when it comes down to playing, and stay off the internet chat rooms.

You don't have to be a particularly knowledgeable fan to recognise a shit sandwich when you see it. And actually, Fozzie is the target, more than Sam, because knowledgeable fans can see him working his guts out on the field. But as far a leadership is concerned, either the players are not responding to his leadership, or he's not giving the right directions. Read was criticized as well for his average leadership qualities.

Fozzie comes with a baggage train of failure as a head coach, so its not surprising to fans to see more of the same. It was predicted, and so far he's done nothing to change that perception.

AB fans are used to success and high standards, and will be pretty harsh on failure. Its always been that way so Cane and Fozzie should not act so surprised.

The remedy is in their hands.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:33 am

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 am As a professional rugby player - a Super Rugby captain and now National captain, I assume Sam Cane has had media/PR training. If that is the case, he needs a refresher.

I won’t go any further for fear of this being considered a hateful, disrespectful comment online.

Yep this is Sam Cane's HRC "deplorables" moment. Attacking fans who indirectly pay his salary by attending games, subscribing to Pay TV and purchasing merchandise. Cane, his players and the coaches are highly paid professionals and tearfully demanding that the public leave them alone is just pathetic. I have less respect for Sam Cane now then I did previously.

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:27 am Interview of Sam Cane

Sam Cane: 'Brutal' All Blacks fans don't know as much about rugby as they think

All Blacks captain Sam Cane has a message for critics lining up to throw stones at himself and coach Ian Foster.

The pair have copped the bulk of the flak in the aftermath of their shock 25-15 defeat to Argentina last weekend, with fans and pundits questioning Cane’s leadership and calling for Foster to walk the plank after just five tests in charge.

Despite taking notice of significantly less media since a self-imposed ban during last year’s World Cup, Cane has heard it all.

“I think we’ve got amazing fans, but we’ve also got some pretty brutal ones. With that, you’ve just got to remind yourself that, hey, they might like to think they know a lot about the game of rugby, but really they don’t,” Cane told Sky Sport’s The Breakdown.

READ MORE:

* All Blacks vs Argentina: Ian Foster's main men look too good for underdone Pumas
* All Blacks vs Argentina: Sam Cane on 'clinical' week – 'We've got an edge about us'
* All Blacks vs Australia: Skipper Sam Cane embraces the Suncorp factor for Bledisloe IV
* All Blacks vs Australia: Ian Foster, Sam Cane – 'We're building something special'

“They may know the game from that they see in the 80 minutes, but they don't see a lot of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes.”


Of criticism of his captaincy, Cane said: “To me, if I am having my leadership questioned in the public, people’s opinions that really matter to me are my teammates and my coaches, who I work with every single day. I’ve got a lot of confidence from them we’re on the right track.”

Asked how Foster was coping with the intense scrutiny on the back of the All Blacks losing consecutive games for the first time since 2011, Cane said he was only human.

All Blacks captain Sam Cane and head coach Ian Foster have copped plenty of stick in recent weeks.
“We understand being in this role comes with a lot of pressure and a lot of public scrutiny. So, it’s not like it’s a shock,” Cane told The Breakdown.

“He’s given us really clear focusses of what we need to get better at, it doesn’t feel like we’re bogged down and don’t have the answers.”

Cane, who edged out Sam Whitelock as Kieran Read’s replacement, said he understood why fans were frustrated, but said the feeling was shared by the players and coaches.

“For us as a team, it certainly doesn't help if we're spending our time online reading hateful, disrespectful comments.”


The All Blacks captain says he has confidence in the coaches and believes the team’s on the right track.
The All Blacks don’t get a shot at redemption until Saturday week, when they again play the Pumas, something Cane lamented despite admitting the congested schedule had taken a toll on his team.

Getting back on the paddock and making amends itches, but refreshing both mentally and physically in the meantime is paramount.

“We can’t underestimate playing five tests in six weeks. The only time we’ve played so many test matches would be at a World Cup, and we certainly can’t underestimate the toll it takes on some guys being away from home, and we’ve got a lot of young dads,” Cane told The Breakdown.

Skipper Sam Cane said the All Blacks learnt some big lessons at the hands of the passionate Pumas.
“These aren’t excuses, they’re just reality.”

One area of the game the All Blacks have been blasted for is their attack, which struggled against the Pumas and has spluttered since their record-breaking 43-5 win against the Wallabies in Sydney last month.

Cane said film review showed players had been guilty of “tunnel vision”, carting the ball into contact when there was space a couple of passes further out from the ruck.

“We're trying really hard to improve. We're as disappointed as everyone with the last two weeks. The highs are high in the All Black team, and the lows are low.”

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:33 am

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 am As a professional rugby player - a Super Rugby captain and now National captain, I assume Sam Cane has had media/PR training. If that is the case, he needs a refresher.

I won’t go any further for fear of this being considered a hateful, disrespectful comment online.

Yep this is Sam Cane's HRC "deplorables" moment. Attacking fans who indirectly pay his salary by attending games, subscribing to Pay TV and purchasing merchandise. Cane, his players and the coaches are highly paid professionals and tearfully demanding that the public leave them alone is just pathetic. I have less respect for Sam Cane now then I did previously.

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:31 am Negative territory... you mean, Waikato rugby, Enz.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:41 am

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:31 am Negative territory... you mean, Waikato rugby, Enz.

I can deal with that. But he contributes nothing and his constant bitching about everything that isn't from Canterbury wears you down.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:41 am

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:31 am Negative territory... you mean, Waikato rugby, Enz.

I can deal with that. But he contributes nothing and his constant bitching about everything that isn't from Canterbury wears you down.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:46 am Not Foster (he is indefensible) - Cane. He has a point when no-alls like AC just constantly snipe.

How about you contribute something AC - anything?

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:48 am

Enzedder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:41 am

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:31 am Negative territory... you mean, Waikato rugby, Enz.

I can deal with that. But he contributes nothing and his constant bitching about everything that isn't from Canterbury wears you down.

You never miss a chance to have a go at Canterbury rugby, whether it’s players or whatever. I think you could do with a bit of gentle reflection here.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:56 am

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:48 am

Enzedder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:41 am

I can deal with that. But he contributes nothing and his constant bitching about everything that isn't from Canterbury wears you down.

You never miss a chance to have a go at Canterbury rugby, whether it’s players or whatever. I think you could do with a bit of gentle reflection here.

With reason. AC is our Sards version. Kunterbury & Sharks before country. Chicken runners on the outside

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:29 am

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 am As a professional rugby player - a Super Rugby captain and now National captain, I assume Sam Cane has had media/PR training. If that is the case, he needs a refresher.

I won’t go any further for fear of this being considered a hateful, disrespectful comment online.

This. He's not wrong necessarily (plenty of fans know bugger all), but it's a bloody stupid thing to actually say. Calling your fans a bunch of ill-informed know-nothings on the back of a historically bad loss is hardly a great PR strategy to get the public onside. Seems very much a case of saying the quiet part out loud.

Also seems like a worryingly insular mindset, where any outside criticism is dismissed onsite. Insularity and NZR should hardly come as a surprise, of course.

Certain Navigator wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:05 am

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:29 am

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 am As a professional rugby player - a Super Rugby captain and now National captain, I assume Sam Cane has had media/PR training. If that is the case, he needs a refresher.

I won’t go any further for fear of this being considered a hateful, disrespectful comment online.

This. He's not wrong necessarily (plenty of fans know bugger all), but it's a bloody stupid thing to actually say. Calling your fans a bunch of ill-informed know-nothings on the back of a historically bad loss is hardly a great PR strategy to get the public onside. Seems very much a case of saying the quiet part out loud.

Also seems like a worryingly insular mindset, where any outside criticism is dismissed onsite. Insularity and NZR should hardly come as a surprise, of course.

Yes, it's hardly surprising that he believes this about rugby fans, but declaring it in public is a foot-shooting exercise.

Unfortunately, this seems to be par for the course for Cane. A good player certainly, but when was the last time a team he was in actually won anything of note? For some reason, he just seems to give off bad vibes.

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:00 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:56 am

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:48 am
You never miss a chance to have a go at Canterbury rugby, whether it’s players or whatever. I think you could do with a bit of gentle reflection here.

With reason. AC is our Sards version. Kunterbury & Sharks before country. Chicken runners on the outside

Whereas you have idiocy lending you innocence?

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:58 am Apart from the Bledisloe?

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:25 am Cane has proven he can lead from the front.

Edit sorry my point being Cane is not the problem and nor is his captaincy.

If only the rest of the team was playing to his level.

Coach Ian Foster said a player has told him he wouldn’t miss Christmas to play for the All Blacks.

“I've had one player that has barged in my door and said 'I'm not playing at Christmas',” Foster said in a radio interview.

New Zealand captain Sam Cane said last week the players were not happy about the possibility of being in quarantine over Christmas, but would leave it to administrators to sort out.

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:58 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:25 am Cane has proven he can lead from the front.

Edit sorry my point being Cane is not the problem and nor is his captaincy.

If only the rest of the team was playing to his level.

As a player, no qualms. But he is captain and responsible for
- getting others charged up, have belief, and focussed on winning tough matches.
- on field game plan when plan A isn’t working.
- not bleating out excuses or inconsistencies in his interviews

He’s failed on those points. I think we all recognised the first two with his results at the chiefs.

On a second note - did we ever find out who this was

Coach Ian Foster said a player has told him he wouldn’t miss Christmas to play for the All Blacks.

“I've had one player that has barged in my door and said 'I'm not playing at Christmas',” Foster said in a radio interview.

New Zealand captain Sam Cane said last week the players were not happy about the possibility of being in quarantine over Christmas, but would leave it to administrators to sort out.

I wonder what the coaches and players of yesteryear would have made of this.

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:58 am One problem Cane has - apart from his media training - is that as good as he has been, a lot of people would prefer Savea at 7 and avoid the Pooper situation where you have two good players but squeezing them in stuffs the balance.

Personally I would rather they start with Cane and bring Savea on, relying on Sotutu/Ioane at 8. If Canes form dropped then Savea comes in.

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:58 am

Coach Ian Foster said a player has told him he wouldn’t miss Christmas to play for the All Blacks.

“I've had one player that has barged in my door and said 'I'm not playing at Christmas',” Foster said in a radio interview.

New Zealand captain Sam Cane said last week the players were not happy about the possibility of being in quarantine over Christmas, but would leave it to administrators to sort out.

I wonder what the coaches and players of yesteryear would have made of this.

Not_Couch wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:57 pm When Greame Henry and co lost in the 07 quarterfinal I never once thought he wasnt up for the task, because we all trusted his previous track record and believed he was worthy of continuing as HC based on facts.

Foster has had no prior Super success and has ridden Hansen's coattails believing he was as good as Hansen and convinced his buddies at Head Office he was as good as Hansen. (Even though they both won the RWC using Henry's core group of leaders)

The writing was on the wall as soon as we started losing to the likes of Ireland.(no disrespect to Ireland btw)

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:28 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:58 am

Coach Ian Foster said a player has told him he wouldn’t miss Christmas to play for the All Blacks.

“I've had one player that has barged in my door and said 'I'm not playing at Christmas',” Foster said in a radio interview.

New Zealand captain Sam Cane said last week the players were not happy about the possibility of being in quarantine over Christmas, but would leave it to administrators to sort out.

I wonder what the coaches and players of yesteryear would have made of this.

It's not unusual or unprofessional to not play at Christmas. Most players play for fun and money. In any professional sport. It's often fans who are more invested in glory. Not all talented players have a Michael Jordan like obsession with winning and greatness. Even Michael Jordan's team mates didn't have his focus, few players ever do.

Likewise which fans are willing to train and until they throw up and cry, miss out on relationships and friendships and then sacrifice their body week in and week out, only to be constantly told by their fans they aren't doing well enough or didn't front up enough. Sometimes players have it, some weeks they don't. The best players have it more consistently and some players just don't, even if they want to. Sometimes, having played well or not it's alright if they give out a little bit than sit there and take it constantly form fans. That's rugby.

Not_Couch wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:17 pm Unless you're Christian, Christmas doesn't mean a damn thing besides fairytales and marketing schemes and a day off work obviously.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:33 pm

Not_Couch wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:17 pm Unless you're Christian, Christmas doesn't mean a damn thing besides fairytales and marketing schemes and a day off work obviously.

Exactly.

I know people who'd gladly work on xmas day for a little bit of extra coin, just to make ends meet. Spending the day "stuck" in an Aussie hotel with dozens of mates, playing XBox and guzzling free piss doesn't sound very difficult to me. But then, I'm not a god-botherer.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:28 pm

It's not unusual or unprofessional to not play at Christmas. Most players play for fun and money. In any professional sport. It's often fans who are more invested in glory. Not all talented players have a Michael Jordan like obsession with winning and greatness. Even Michael Jordan's team mates didn't have his focus, few players ever do.

Likewise which fans are willing to train and until they throw up and cry, miss out on relationships and friendships and then sacrifice their body week in and week out, only to be constantly told by their fans they aren't doing well enough or didn't front up enough. Sometimes players have it, some weeks they don't. The best players have it more consistently and some players just don't, even if they want to. Sometimes, having played well or not it's alright if they give out a little bit than sit there and take it constantly form fans. That's rugby.

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:20 pm

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:33 pm

Not_Couch wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:17 pm Unless you're Christian, Christmas doesn't mean a damn thing besides fairytales and marketing schemes and a day off work obviously.

Exactly.

I know people who'd gladly work on xmas day for a little bit of extra coin, just to make ends meet. Spending the day "stuck" in an Aussie hotel with dozens of mates, playing XBox and guzzling free piss doesn't sound very difficult to me. But then, I'm not a god-botherer.

I’ve worked a shitload of Christmas holidays. An absolute shitload... probably more than I’ve had off.

It hurts. Our society holds the Christmas holiday up as above all others. Missing it is alienating, lonely and depressing.

Being expected to work because a bunch of ‘fans’ think it’s no biggie is insulting.