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My team if I as selecting the squad and match day XXIII;
Dropping the captain and the best All Black player on the field last week seems harsh in the extreme.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:39 amHe hasn't been our best 7 for two years, and he offers no versatility off the bench.
Sure he played well on Sunday, but over the past 24 months Ardie Savea has outplayed him at 7. By a margin. Sam Cane is a mute with zero ability to influence the referee, and the fact that he's our captain is an actual joke, minus the humor.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:51 amDropping the captain and the best All Black player on the field last week seems harsh in the extreme.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:39 amHe hasn't been our best 7 for two years, and he offers no versatility off the bench.
25 tackles!
We are used to our wingers being wingers, for a start... until we move them into the centre field.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:27 amTrue. Kiwis aren't used to slow All Black wingers..
Who's your captain in the side you posted earlier, with both Cane and Whitelock out?Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:56 amSure he played well on Sunday, but over the past 24 months Ardie Savea has outplayed him at 7. By a margin. Sam Cane is a mute with zero ability to influence the referee, and the fact that he's our captain is an actual joke, minus the humor.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:51 amDropping the captain and the best All Black player on the field last week seems harsh in the extreme.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:39 am
He hasn't been our best 7 for two years, and he offers no versatility off the bench.
25 tackles!
Well there is the Blues captain PT or Crusaders SR Aotearoa winning captain Codie Taylor in the side. Hurricanes captain TJP would also be coming off the bench.Gumboot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:00 pmWho's your captain in the side you posted earlier, with both Cane and Whitelock out?Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:56 amSure he played well on Sunday, but over the past 24 months Ardie Savea has outplayed him at 7. By a margin. Sam Cane is a mute with zero ability to influence the referee, and the fact that he's our captain is an actual joke, minus the humor.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:51 am
Dropping the captain and the best All Black player on the field last week seems harsh in the extreme.
25 tackles!
Not far off the side I would pick... David Havilli is a smart footballer. And I would want Frizzell to show he can give the All Blacks a bit of the Kanio mongrel it's been missing... Only Same Cane was knocking players backwards last week... I wonder if Papilii might do that...Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:32 amMy team if I as selecting the squad and match day XXIII;
15. David Havili
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith
8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Ardie Savea
6. Papilii
5. Mitchell Dunshea
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungfasi
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody
16. Dane Coles
17. Nepo Laulala
18. Karl Tu'inukuafe
19. Manaaki Selby-Rickett
20. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beaudan Barrett
23. Will Jordan
Same Cane. Very apt. He's always the Same Cane in All Blacks tests - just burying people.Grandpa wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:01 pmNot far off the side I would pick... David Havilli is a smart footballer. And I would want Frizzell to show he can give the All Blacks a bit of the Kanio mongrel it's been missing... Only Same Cane was knocking players backwards last week... I wonder if Papilii might do that...Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:32 amMy team if I as selecting the squad and match day XXIII;
15. David Havili
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith
8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Ardie Savea
6. Papilii
5. Mitchell Dunshea
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungfasi
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody
16. Dane Coles
17. Nepo Laulala
18. Karl Tu'inukuafe
19. Manaaki Selby-Rickett
20. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beaudan Barrett
23. Will Jordan
Spot on, except Bridge is now out, so maybe Reiko on the wing, or Jordan who I think is ready for a crack. Though apart from a couple of fumbles/positioning errors, I really liked the look of Clarke. Is starting both Jordan and Clarke on the wings too green?Auckman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:41 amWhoever fluffed up that final lineout really annoyed me. I think it was Vaai but not sure.Turbster wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:52 am How many times must it be said? Tests are won up front before they are won in the backs. Bugger all of the pack really stood up last week, but if you watch the match again you will see hesitancy and uncertainty a few times, offensively and defensively, but specially the latter. It was almost as if their position on 'D' was more important than their role. It's generally 'coach-itis,' too many voices and not enough clarity. They will be even more challenged this week if Sam W is out, but it may mean Paddy will step up. Taylor and Frizzell will also want to impose themselves more.
Re the backline: Jordie is a fullback, not a winger's arse, and D Mac was appalling in making the same error under the high ball 3 times in 20 minutes, so Jordie goes to 15, end of! Reiko can do some laps and ALB and Goody combine again. Bridge was quite good, so Clarke and Bridge to start, and the remainder as is. Normally I would want to start the same XV, but D Mac and Reiko 'weren't at the races.'
No was actually Sam Whitelock who f***ed the last lineout, must be about first lineout I have ever seen him bulls up, well any important one anyway. I think we will see BB at 15 someone has to try and take some options away from RM so he not such a clear target for Wallaby loosies, would probably go Jordan and Clarke on wings as Bridge is out (or Reiko) , but suspect Jordie will be on one, even to keep the Wallabies defence wide because they will be waiting for cross kicks.Auckman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:41 amWhoever fluffed up that final lineout really annoyed me. I think it was Vaai but not sure.Turbster wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:52 am How many times must it be said? Tests are won up front before they are won in the backs. Bugger all of the pack really stood up last week, but if you watch the match again you will see hesitancy and uncertainty a few times, offensively and defensively, but specially the latter. It was almost as if their position on 'D' was more important than their role. It's generally 'coach-itis,' too many voices and not enough clarity. They will be even more challenged this week if Sam W is out, but it may mean Paddy will step up. Taylor and Frizzell will also want to impose themselves more.
Re the backline: Jordie is a fullback, not a winger's arse, and D Mac was appalling in making the same error under the high ball 3 times in 20 minutes, so Jordie goes to 15, end of! Reiko can do some laps and ALB and Goody combine again. Bridge was quite good, so Clarke and Bridge to start, and the remainder as is. Normally I would want to start the same XV, but D Mac and Reiko 'weren't at the races.'
This is a good call. Smith's passing was all over the place last Sunday, and his kicking game handed possession and territory to the Wallabies time and time again. From memory his first three passes were all shockers, and that set the tone for the rest of the match.Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:09 pm I’d swap A Smith for TJ at 9. Smith is starting to coast on past glories. He produces a good game and everyone goes gaga over his apparent mastery but his shit game is becoming more and more frequent. Highlighting any perceived weakness in Mounga’s game while ignoring Smith’s woeful delivery is weak.
Sam Cane should be playing 6 then. He's effectively in that role already, except he's cluttering up the open side of the scrum, when he should be operating from the blindside.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:51 pmSame Cane. Very apt. He's always the Same Cane in All Blacks tests - just burying people.Grandpa wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:01 pmNot far off the side I would pick... David Havilli is a smart footballer. And I would want Frizzell to show he can give the All Blacks a bit of the Kanio mongrel it's been missing... Only Same Cane was knocking players backwards last week... I wonder if Papilii might do that...Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:32 am
My team if I as selecting the squad and match day XXIII;
15. David Havili
14. Sevu Reece
13. Jack Goodhue
12. Anton Lienart-Brown
11. Caleb Clarke
10. Richie Mo'unga
9. Aaron Smith
8. Hoskins Sotutu
7. Ardie Savea
6. Papilii
5. Mitchell Dunshea
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
3. Ofa Tu'ungfasi
2. Codie Taylor
1. Joe Moody
16. Dane Coles
17. Nepo Laulala
18. Karl Tu'inukuafe
19. Manaaki Selby-Rickett
20. Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beaudan Barrett
23. Will Jordan
He should have the nickname The Undertaker.
and the first try which started inside our 22Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:31 amI hope so. His try-assist to Aaron Smith was probably our most exciting attacking moment in the previous test (aside from Rieko's no-try).Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:29 amSeems a bit OTT. Bridge has been great in his test career to date.Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:24 am 6 months out with a training injury. That could be Bridge's test career? What terrible luck.
I'm sure he'll bounce back.
He has that deceptive Ungainly White Guy look about him, but in actual fact he's a classy winger.
The deft little offload in traffic to Rieko outside him?Enzedder wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:31 pmand the first try which started inside our 22Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:31 amI hope so. His try-assist to Aaron Smith was probably our most exciting attacking moment in the previous test (aside from Rieko's no-try).Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:29 am
Seems a bit OTT. Bridge has been great in his test career to date.
I'm sure he'll bounce back.
He has that deceptive Ungainly White Guy look about him, but in actual fact he's a classy winger.
Probably. I'm not sure this is the right game to introduce Jordan.
He makes the most tackles and is a better ball winner than Savea. That screams openside flanker to me.Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:30 pmSam Cane should be playing 6 then. He's effectively in that role already, except he's cluttering up the open side of the scrum, when he should be operating from the blindside.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:51 pmSame Cane. Very apt. He's always the Same Cane in All Blacks tests - just burying people.Grandpa wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:01 pm
Not far off the side I would pick... David Havilli is a smart footballer. And I would want Frizzell to show he can give the All Blacks a bit of the Kanio mongrel it's been missing... Only Same Cane was knocking players backwards last week... I wonder if Papilii might do that...
He should have the nickname The Undertaker.
If Jordie can play right wing, then Jordan sure as fuck can. At least he has pace.
That wasn't my point. If Jordan gets the nod I'll be very happy for him.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:17 pmIf Jordie can play right wing, then Jordan sure as fuck can. At least he has pace.
False equivalence. Sam Cane is categorically not a better ball winner than Savea when both are playing openside. He is a very good defender.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:17 pmHe makes the most tackles and is a better ball winner than Savea. That screams openside flanker to me.Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:30 pmSam Cane should be playing 6 then. He's effectively in that role already, except he's cluttering up the open side of the scrum, when he should be operating from the blindside.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:51 pm
Same Cane. Very apt. He's always the Same Cane in All Blacks tests - just burying people.
He should have the nickname The Undertaker.
Pretty sure a Super Rugby winning player can handle the step up to test rugby.Gumboot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:22 pmThat wasn't my point. If Jordan gets the nod I'll be very happy for him.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:17 pmIf Jordie can play right wing, then Jordan sure as fuck can. At least he has pace.
Yes he is. Savea is a very good tackling openside but Cane is a better ball winner.Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:25 pmFalse equivalence. Sam Cane is categorically not a better ball winner than Savea when both are playing openside. He is a very good defender.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:17 pmHe makes the most tackles and is a better ball winner than Savea. That screams openside flanker to me.
Cool.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:25 pmPretty sure a Super Rugby winning player can handle the step up to test rugby.Gumboot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:22 pmThat wasn't my point. If Jordan gets the nod I'll be very happy for him.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:17 pm
If Jordie can play right wing, then Jordan sure as fuck can. At least he has pace.
It doesn't seem to have harmed any of the young gun Wallabies. In fact they thrived last weekend.
The stats say otherwise regards their respective ball winning ability.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:26 pmYes he is. Savea is a very good tackling openside but Cane is a better ball winner.Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:25 pmFalse equivalence. Sam Cane is categorically not a better ball winner than Savea when both are playing openside. He is a very good defender.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:17 pm
He makes the most tackles and is a better ball winner than Savea. That screams openside flanker to me.
I don't recall Cane being dropped for being too slight and failing to win enough turnovers.
FFSGumboot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:28 pm 1. Joe Moody (47)
2. Dane Coles (70)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (36)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (31)
5. Tupou Vaa’i (1)
6. Shannon Frizell (10)
7. Sam Cane (69) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (45)
9. Aaron Smith (93)
10. Richie Mo’unga (18)
11. Caleb Clarke (1)
12. Jack Goodhue (14)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (44)
14. Jordie Barrett (18)
15. Beauden Barrett (84)
16. Codie Taylor (51)
17. Alex Hodgman - debut
18. Nepo Laulala (27)
19. Scott Barrett (36)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (1)
21. TJ Perenara (65)
22. Rieko Ioane (30)
23. Damian McKenzie (24)
https://index.rugbypass.com/compare/pla ... 64:11609:0Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:30 pmThe stats say otherwise regards their respective ball winning ability.Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:26 pmYes he is. Savea is a very good tackling openside but Cane is a better ball winner.
I don't recall Cane being dropped for being too slight and failing to win enough turnovers.
Why?
X2.Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:33 pmFFSGumboot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:28 pm 1. Joe Moody (47)
2. Dane Coles (70)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (36)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (31)
5. Tupou Vaa’i (1)
6. Shannon Frizell (10)
7. Sam Cane (69) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (45)
9. Aaron Smith (93)
10. Richie Mo’unga (18)
11. Caleb Clarke (1)
12. Jack Goodhue (14)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (44)
14. Jordie Barrett (18)
15. Beauden Barrett (84)
16. Codie Taylor (51)
17. Alex Hodgman - debut
18. Nepo Laulala (27)
19. Scott Barrett (36)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (1)
21. TJ Perenara (65)
22. Rieko Ioane (30)
23. Damian McKenzie (24)
